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New Palm Lineup Reviewed: Tungsten T3 & E, Zire 21
Geartest.com writes "PalmOne (AKA Palm) launched three new handhelds today: The Tungsten T3, Tungsten E and Zire 21. Without going on at length about the features of every model, the T3 has 64 MB RAM, a 320x480 display that rotates from portrait to landscape mode, a software writing area that slides out of the way when you aren't using it, built-in Bluetooth, a voice recorder, and Palm OS 5.2.1 that runs on an Intel XScale 400 MHz processor, which Sony dropped from the top-end CLIE in favor of its own silicon.
InfoSyncWorld reviews the Tungsten T3, Tungsten E and Zire 21. PalmInfocenter also has a T3 review. ZDNet UK has a Tungsten T3 preview. And the Detroit Free Press has an overview of all three devices."
on InternetNews.com .
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
palm's os isn't that bad and the hardware is great but i think i'll stick with my ipaq...plenty of software for PPC 2002 & hell you can't get everquest for the palm....
Do any of them have a console and the ability to run an onboard C (cross)compiler?
If not, I'll stick with my Zaurus.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Why don't they call these things Tung-Pilots? Come to think of it, that would imply a revolutionary way of inputting data into the things.
I was wondering when we'd finally see 128MB in a palmtop system. I'm kind of torn between getting one of these or a Tablet PC, although I suppose I'm inclined towards the latter because of the size and speed as well as the ease of use of Windows CE and compatibility that platform offers.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
A good review can be found at The Palm Information Center They also have strong coverage of the Palm OS in general.
The processor has some oomph, there are multimedia capabilities, there is wireless; you don't need a hard drive. Install a nice object-oriented developer package and let them learn early programming on the Palm. The lack of hard drive makes it tougher, and cheaper to replace all-around. Take assignments on SD cards (or whatever). Imagine kids scribbling their coding assignments into Palms on the bus.
When I think about it, I find it surprising no one has implemented such a program... can't think of any immediate downsides.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Sony also announced two Clies today, which cost $200 and $250 respectively. Not bad, but not revolutionary.
For more information, click here.
The 21 seems to rectify those problems with being underpowered. I'm sure that in a month or so, you'll be able to buy refurbished 21's for $80 or so. At that point I might finally cave in and get one.
What surprises me, and the thing that's kept me on the sidelines so long, is that none of the units offer 802.11 B. A friend of mine has a Handspring with an 802.11 B card, and speaks the world of it. I bet a lot of folks would jump in and start using PDA's, when 802.11 B becomes a standard feature.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
It's about time woke up and smelled the price points, man.
...9. What's next? Here's to hoping the story continues on this line- I'd use a Palm device if PalmOS wasn't so primitive. I want/need a pocket computer, not an expensive organizer, and before the PalmOS can fill that need, it will need to be able to do a couple those little features we take for granted in a real OS, like multitasking. :) Will PalmOS 6 be the analogue to Apple's OS X?
For a while, you've been able to pick up a very good PocketPC device for around $200- currently the Dell Axim X5 Basic, and before that the iPAQ 3100 series (all the usual 3600 specs, but with a B&W screen, 16 MB of RAM instead of 32). Both of those PPC devices are very capable little PDAs that can just about do it all.
Palm, on the other hand, has only tossed us some pretty crappy bones for a cheaper Palm device. Yeah, you could get a Palm m130 for $200 (now $180), or the low-end Zire for $100. However, both of these models are pretty limited. The m130 has an old, slow processor (although, it still displays PDFs faster than my 400 MHz Zaurus C760, or a 206 MHz/400 MHz WinCE device), little RAM, and a small, non-reflective screen. The m130 has a limited SD slot and the Palm serial connection. For the same price, you could get a PocketPC device with 3x the screen real-estate, 4x the RAM, 5-10x the processor speed and 3 expansion options (SD, CF, serial), usable for various networking options and memory upgrades.
However, it seems Palm is finally putting out something
In a way, this model has the potential to be the company's iMac analogue. When you think of it, the PocketPC vs Palm race parallels the Microsoft vs Apple one. I'll put the MS vs Apple in parens:
1. Palm (Apple) comes out with a superior product at first: the first Palm PDA (the original Mac 128K).
2. Microsoft comes out with an inferior product as a reaction to #1: WinCE 1.0 devices (MS Windows 1.0).
3. Palm (Apple) keeps on moving forward, doing incremental updates, eventually arriving at the Palm III (Mac OS 6).
4. MS finally gets a larger chunk of its act together, gets a better hardware platform, puts out PocketPC. (Win 95)
5. MS and PocketPC starts to claim territory that was once very clearly PalmOS-land.
6. Does a CPU and general archetecture upgrade, moving from dead-end m68k CPUs to ARM-based chips. (Apple goes from m68k to PowerPC.)
7. Palm sticks to a friendly to use, but somewhat ugly to code for and quite primitive internally OS, while Microsoft has had something resembling a "real" OS for a while. (Apple sticks to its primitive-cored Mac OS 9, MS has NT, 2k, 9x [although they suck just as much ass as OS 9, even though they look better on paper].)
8. Palm comes out with the Tungsten E, which provides almost all of the features of a more expensive PDA for a lot less. (Apple comes out with the iMac, pretty much all the features you need, but for cheaper.)
Of course, this is totally ignoring the Newton, which is where Palm did well to steal a lot of ideas for PalmOS, although ignoring a handful of very important architectural elements. I also ignore all name changes, referring to USR, Palm, PalmOne, etc just as "Palm."
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
The Tungsten T3 retails at about $400 (US), the Tungsten E at $200, and the Zire 21 at $100.
Overall, it looks like the Tungsten E is the best value of Palm's offerings to date (320x320 color screen, multimedia, Graffiti 2, 32 MB of memory). For $200 more you get Bluetooth, wireless Internet, and a rotating screen; for $100 less you get a black-and-white screen and a no-frills, PIM-focused device. It really feels like Palm is listening to its users when they say what they want in a handheld.
Now I can get organized! Wait.. where's that damn Palm thing again.... *fumbling around*
I bought one of these to replace my wife's ailing M100. I was pretty surprised to find out that it doesn't have a backlight. What the hell were they thinking?
True, it doesn't include "backlight" anywhere on the list of features on the side of the box, but since (almost) every other Palm OS organizer ever made has a backlight, it's not like I would have expected it to be optional. Who would buy a digital watch or a cellphone without a backlight?
-Mark
I'm still just looking for some apps that'll make my Zaurus as usefull as my old palm pilot was as a PDA. Then it'd be perfect.
How is this remotely insightful? That's like saying, "does the Porsche 911 have on the fly four wheel drive and a place to bolt a goose neck? If not, I'll stick with my F350". Well no duh. Those features are not in these devices target markets.
The Tungsten T3 retails at about $400 (US)
I saw T3 in the theatre for $7.50. $400 is way too much to pay to see a movie.
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Tungsten E for $190 could replace the expensive the TI's.
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Maybe the zire too for $100
Are schools locking students into these Texas Instrument calculators when the these pda's can now compete?
Me thinks so.
What about battery life? As with phones, PDAs, and other portable devices it always worries me that all the latest bells and whistles come with about 2 days battery life (in real terms, not manufacturers quoted figures), in which a pad of paper is better for me, as it won't lose my information or stop working! Anyone got any figures on battery life for recent fancy PDAs?
I traded out a palm m105 for a toshiba pocket pc - e335 - it is 300mhz, but the palm beat it hands down in most things - opening documents, opening the address book etc.
The toshiba can barely play mp3s without skipping. I have to ask, why is the performance of most pocket pcs so cruddy?
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Dang, only 6 comments, and the server is down... Must've been running a Palm server. *chuckle* [/obligatory]
In all seriousness though...
I'd have to say no. My 3(?) year old Vx still does its job remarkably well, and I don't want a Palm-based Pocket PC do-alike. The Tungsten E is getting closer to what the Vx was in it's time, but it seems they keep skirting handily around the midrange model that I'd like and be able to afford - especially with that battery life! And no expansion capabilities either... a shame as well. I don't want to pay $200 extra for a little SD slot, or likewise...
Oh well, I can keep waiting. *pats the Vx*
Karma: \Kar"ma\, n. [Skr.] (Buddhism) One's acts considered as fixing one's lot in the future existence.
Wasn't the T2 just released, literally, a couple months ago?
Why would they release an update to it now? To cause consumer confusion?
I don't believe the general public (of which I am a member) thinks of their PDAs as they think of their desktop or laptop computers.
A PDA is more a consumer electronic device than a computer, and as such should have a much slower product update cycle.
The T3 is not that different from the T2, definetly not enough to justify a completely new device short months after the original was released.
Maybe, maybe if it cost less I could some justification. As it is I would have rather seen the T2's price drop.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
(Note to moderators: please do not rate this informative. Check the link first. Aargh, why do I actually have to make such qualifying statements first? Do your job, or don't use the mod points. Maybe I'm just too subtle.)
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Considering the Zaurus is competition to these devices, and does offer these utilities, it's relevant.
Oh, and there are console and SSH apps for Palm OS. They're quite popular for Sysadmin types. Who are a huge target market for these babies.
And the 911 offers full-time AWD instead of on-the-fly 4WD.
"You've got an invalid haircut" -Warren Zevon - Life'll Kill Ya
So, Palm is touting these as media devices for playing movies. We are considering developing some movies for ophthalmological surgical instruction on Palm devices, but I am wondering with memory limits of 64MB and add on cards only 256MB in size, is anybody really using these things to play anything more than 5-10 second clips? If so, please let me know what you are doing.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
These palm shaped things are next to useless for any serious work.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
i was going to look for the specs on a zire we got floating around the office, to see if i wanted it, but palm.com was unresponsive.
checking slashdot to make sure it wasn't just my connection, i see now why i couldn't get to palm.com
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
So does this mean I can run Suse or Lindows on my Palm Pilot now? :)
Considering the Zaurus is competition to these devices, and does offer these utilities, it's relevant. Oh, and there are console and SSH apps for Palm OS. They're quite popular for Sysadmin types. Who are a huge target market for these babies.
Somehow I don't think that Palm (or Sony) is losing a lot of sleep over the fact that the Zaurus has these features "built in". It doesn't change the fact that for the majority of the target audience, those features are irrelevant.
And the 911 offers full-time AWD instead of on-the-fly 4WD.
Which is why I said "shift on-the-fly 4WD" specifically, the whole point was that for the audience and application that functionality was not important. I'm not saying that those features are not useful, but that only a small number of individuals are going to make it their make or break decision maker.
lies!!! stephen king is 56...born in 1947
That's not a review, that's a press release.
--
make install -not war
Now where have I seen this before? And what's that thing I carry around with me everywhere I go?
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
i'm not sure if kids need Palms or not- but the the HELL are we going to have a standardized computer education course in the US?
SO many people sit in front of computers all day long, but we are not educated about them! Anybody that graduates high school should know what a Megabyte is and how a computer works (to some degree).
I'm pretty sure most people would have a need to know about the Internet more than they need to know about different forms of Algae.
Sorry to any Algae lovers out there.
really a fantastic handheld, pity for the battery life, though, 3 hours doesn't really cut it in a palm (heck, it's lowish even for a laptop!). My lowly IIIc goes weeks without a charge...
-- the cake is a lie
Most users won't want one. The fact that my zaurus can run GCC, XFree86, ESD, and the works is what made me buy it.
Situations come up that can't be predicted, and that's where Linux shines on handhelds. I'm using my zaurus as a network ESD server at the moment, and I'll be using it as an HTTP server in a few minutes. Because my zaurus runs Linux, no one has to rewrite software to do such things. Only a simple recompile is necessary.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Inputing numbers with the stylus is painful, and the minature keyboards are just as bad.
I miss the Newton Interface...it was simply amazing. Why hasn't anyone come close? PalmOS, even v5 is utter crap. It feelsl ike some first year cs students half assed homework assignment.
I really don't see the need for these cellphone disposible devices.
They are way overpriced and highly underpowered.
I guess it all depends on what you use it for.
My day planer works a whole lot better for most tasks.
I think it's time for me to get a high priced lawyer and sue the makers of these devices for holding out and stringing us along for the next powerfull device.
The big news as far as I can see is that the 4Kb limit on memos has finally been lifted. According to the PDF handbook for the Tungsten E: "Each memo you create can be up to approximately 32KB in size". That's why I've ordered one - first time I've been tempted to upgrade from my PalmPilot Professional model.
Isn't it about time that Palm stops highlighting that it has a universal connector? Nearly all PDA's have some sort of connector that allows you to put it into a cradle. Any 3rd party device that you can connect to a universal connector you can also get the digital card slot on top.
I own an oldie clie and I am much happy with it. The one thing I miss is wifi, and I would expect the T|T3 to have a builtin wifi by now. Or a dual slot at the least. How are we supposed to hook up a nice palm like the T|T3 is for browsing /. without a wi-fi card? And if I even buy the overpriced SD wifi cards, I loose the slot so no MP3s, no extra memory. And don't tell me about built in BT, it sucks. I wish the new UX-50 clie was $300 cheaper...
Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
Read my journal entry where I talk about the exact same thing. I think we only differ on the size of the screen, you want one bigger than I do. Hell, I'd pay twice what I paid for my Handera for one that fits my requirements.
There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
-Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
Finally Palm has ditched the legacy Motorola 68000 chip for modern variants. That's one less boat anchor they have to worry about in terms of successfully competing with Microsoft's offerings. Eh, maybe I should've looked at their website before I posted that; the original Zire model is still in production and it still is ARM-less. But then who is going to buy the Zire when the Zire21 is only $20 more? 6 more megs and a modern OS.
Now, with this current lineup, the best thing Palm can do is start adding Bluetooth and WiFi to the lower models within the next product cycle. Maybe even a camera since you can get the Sony Ericsson T616 phone with Bluetooth and a camera for $199 before special rebates kick in. This will keep PocketPC from further entrenching into the low-end, thereby adding confidence in PalmOS as a solid platform in order to drive more higher-end sales (coupled with more enterprise robustness of course)...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
I want a palm/zaurus interface on the small 40GB drive they use in the ipod. You get to carry around as much information, and it won't make your arm tired. With the vidport like the zaurus has, you could connect it up to a real monitor when you get home, or "sync" it with your desktop.
It's more useful in a portable device like this. While out, you're more likely to have a BT cell phone with you than be in range of some access point. Ideally of course you'd want both, but realistically I'd take the cheaper BT if I could only have one. I just wish they'd start including BT as a standard feature even in the low-end models.
I was thinking about replacing my old Palm V with one of the Tungsten series, as I also wanted bluetooth - what is the battery life like on the T2 or T3? I never seem to see figures mentioned anywhere.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
By now all handhelds should have GPRS. Anything short of this is simply lame. It's really time for these companies put GPRS in every device, not just some.
Danger hiptop: ssh on your cell phone!
You know it is time to upgrade your desktop when it is about to be overtaken by a palmtop! 466 mHz w/ 96mb RAM is my rig alright, i know the numbers are misleading, but NEVER-THE-LESS ahh the life of a starving college student. yeesh
I like the parts where these old yahooties tolchok each other and then drink their Hebrew vino and getting on to the bed
Aargh! I'm still waiting for a useable phone/organizer combo. I think putting a clunky treo to your ear is absolutely ridiculous, and something as slim as a mobile phone can only have an impossible screen. Now there are organizers with GSM, organizers with bluetooth and bluetooth headsets. Where is the problem with combining them? All those nice innovations, but never in the same package. Ok, I'll stick to my Vx a little longer...
I wrote six complete novels on Palm machines. The longest of these was over 600 pages when finally carted over to my PC and printed out. Heck, I even did the first one back on the original Palm Pilot where writing meant breaking up each chapter into 4K memos. While I might be able to type faster than I can write, I can write as fast as I can think up decent text, so that wasn't a limit. Any additional effort required was easily offset by the ablity to write while sitting beside a waterfall or standing in line at the movies.
I'm with you 99%.
It's not Apple that's opposed, it's Jobs. And you must remember that the Newton team is long gone from Apple. Many went to Palm and set their sights much lower.
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
Graffiti 2 seems closer in many regards to the Newton's block-character recognition, and virtually identical to the HWR built into most PocketPC devices these days. After getting used to Graffiti 2, I prefer it over the original Graffiti. Maybe with time you'll learn to like it too, though it does suck to have to un-learn old muscle memory.