Slashdot Mirror
Dual Layer DVD+R Developed
Lucretian writes "And they said it couldn't be done... It appears that Philips has found a way to burn a dual layered DVD+R. Unlike other dual layered disks that have been developed, this one is also designed to be backwards compatible with current DVD players. Phillips will be demonstrating this new technology at CEATEC this coming week at the DVD+RW alliance booth. The DVDs will hold 8.5GB of data (4 hours of video) and are set to be released as soon as next year."
Backing it up is simply impossible by any current means.
We desperately needed another non-standard DVD standard.
This latest DVD burning technology will undoubtedly be quite expensive, for both the drives and the media. Especially the media, since it will probably take Phillips a while to manufacture enough media for these devices.
OTOH, it will certainly make it easier for the home movie crowd.
SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/ Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
I personally am going to wait for the BlueRay to come down in price and go with that.
Between the current speed advantage (8x vs 4x), and now the size advantage, is there any hope for the '-R' format?
Why haven't they agreed on a standard format for DVDs yet? I can't keep track of the -s and +s.
Founder of Mirror Moon - Tsukihime Game Trans
I backed up about 100GB of data a few months ago on DVD+R, and they worked fine for a few months. Now most of them are giving me CRC errors when trying to read them in any drive. I deleted the data from my hard drive to save space like a fool. I might as well have just bought another hard drive to back them up for the cost of the DVD-R media and writing drive :/
They need to research more ways to make this media last rather than try to increase the size.
8GB of dammaged data isn't good for anyone...except maybe Soviet Russia.
These disks cannot store 4 hours of video. Definitely not. In fact, it's absolutely impossible to store compressed video onto DVDs.
We need these larger disks for backup purposes. Not just that, but we need these disks for backup purposes so that we can evil catch terrorists and corporate criminals.
Remember, these aren't on the market yet. And if they could be used for storing video, they might never reach the market.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
First, the movie industry will not like this at all, because virtually every movie will fit onto a single recordable DVD at full bitrate.
Second, the Philips technical paper does say (as expected) that a new drive is required, with an objective lens that can focus into the two recording planes on a disc.
My new DVD+R/W drive has just made reservations for the basement suite next to the 2X CDROM drive.
More one reson (besides price) to not buy a dvd recorder now.
I thought dual layer double-sided DVDs have existed for years and they held about 9gig of data, silver on both sides with not much space for any label except the inside of the ring.
So...
The next challenge is to make a Linux distribution like Knoppix big enough to use that whole DVD.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Well, it looks like this will drive down the price of current single-layer DVD-R's (hopefully).
It also appears to comply with standard to play/read in all current DVD players/readers.
Backups will take fewer disks! Now what about the speed?
I don't see how you can say that -R is going to be usurped simply because of speed issues. The fact is that they could make 8x double-layer DVD-Rs if the DVD-Forum decided to make them. Also, there are very few video applications that require the double-layer standard.
/. article about it. If someone is publishing a corporate or school training video, and the viewers have an old DVD player, the chances that it will play anything but a -R are slim. Particularly with schools, it is a challenge to be replacing capital equipment even as trivial as a DVD player when budgets are so tight these days. For that reason alone, the format can't and shouldn't go away completely for the foreseeable future. But the DVD-Forum had better respond in kind and in short order, because as time goes on things will change, and +R may yet usurp this.
The fact is this: if you want maximum compatibility today with DVD readers and players, including legacy devices, you must go with DVD-R. There was even a recent
The other thing to remember is that you need to use good quality blanks with stable dyes (i.e. MAM-E/Mitsui Archive Gold, Verbatim Data Life) if you want to retain your data over the long term. Philips hasn't mass-produced these double-layer DVD+Rs yet, so we don't know about their longevity or even their real compatibility in the field. I'd take a more mature mass-storage technology over the bleeding edge, even if it meant dealing with more physical media.
Now you don't have to recompress your DVD movies before copying them. I bet the MPAA will figure that out, soon enough.
The average movie is 7+GB in size. 4.5GB drives were no threat to the MPAA. Hence we weren't subjected to a whole lot more than mere rhetoric from the end of Valenti's digestive system incapable of facial expression.
Given that most of the movie leaks to date have come from industry insiders, and that industry capable drives aren't common, the MPAA enjoyed what the RIAA could only whish it had, an exclusive advantage in both the market place and in the means of production.
Look forward to RIAA-style lawsuit writs being included in the installation instructions with every drive.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I find the whole idea that people actually continue to say this phrase, absurd. In this day and age, things that were deemed impossible are being done every day. Of course this has happened throughout the ages, not just currently, but it seems more prevelant now. This is the reason I laugh my ass off when some company comes out with an "uncrackable" security mechanism.
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
i have one of those mini-cd mp3 players.
a mini-cd stores up to 180MB or about 25% of a standard cd.
i find this really useful for storing utilities and such, config docs, encrypted password files etc as they are small enought to fit in a jeans pocket.
now if we had a dual-layered mini-dvd i could get over 2Gb of data in my pocket!
that would be cool.
you could then pretty much fit a whole distribution on a business card!
Probably the new 8.5GB drives will cost you an arm and a leg and media will be prohibitive as well. Right know you can get a samsung ide drive of 160GB 7200rpm less than 100$. The cost per GB is not mutch higher of that of the DVDs and with DVDs you have spenf money on the burner as well. More than that the reliability of the drive is much greater, you can write and erase from as mutch as you like, speed is mutch better and to add on top it is more compact (160Gb means arround 35 dvds). Do not spend money on DVD technology.
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
Ahem...the proper /. usage is pr0n...not p0rn. *sigh*
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from."
Andrew S. Tannenbaum
"Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness." --Eric Blair
I haven't. Because if you're talking specs, take e.g. Pioneer DVR-107:
DVD-R: 8x (Z-CLV), 6x, 4x, 2x, 1x (CLV)
DVD+R: 8x (Z-CLV), 6x, 4x, 2.4x (CLV)
Seem awfully similar? And if you trust the editiorial comment on www.cdrlabs.com:
"Dual layer technology is something that a lot of people have been waiting for. Of course, Pioneer is also supposedly working on their own dual layer DVD-R discs. Which will make it to market first? Who knows."
I think they both won. I've got a ND-1300A DVD+/-R(W) drive. Why? A hedge, it'll burn the format no matter which wins. And I know many people that have bought the same one, which makes it more unlikely that any burner will in fact win. End result is that we end up paying money to both the certification organizations, even though there is no technological reason to have two formats.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I remember when 1.44mb was enough for anyone...
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Bah! I've had 9GB DVDs for a long time... all you have to do is use a hole punch to create a second notch on the disk, then insert it into the drive upside down!
...wait a minute, why is the end cut off of all my movies?
5% of the number of player models on the market is not a very meaningful statistic at all. What matters is the number of units sold of each of those models. When you take into account how many units of each player model has been sold, DVD-R has a compatibility advantage far larger than 5%. The reason is that each of the older player models (the ones incompatible with DVD+R) has a far larger market share than each of the dozens of modern cheap $40 players that you tout. An older player model should not be weighed equally against a modern dime-a-dozen model, but that is exactly what you are doing with your 5% figure.
As to your assertion that DVD-R costs more, a quick check of actual selling prices reveals that DVD+R media is actually fractionally more expensive than DVD-R media. I'm not even going to bother checking drive prices because dual-format drives (both players and recorders) are already so cheap.
DVD+R can be a good solution for a private user of recordable DVDs, but if you plan to distribute DVDs to any large group of people you'd be crazy to use anything but DVD-R.