Dual Layer DVD+R Developed

Lucretian writes "And they said it couldn't be done... It appears that Philips has found a way to burn a dual layered DVD+R. Unlike other dual layered disks that have been developed, this one is also designed to be backwards compatible with current DVD players. Phillips will be demonstrating this new technology at CEATEC this coming week at the DVD+RW alliance booth. The DVDs will hold 8.5GB of data (4 hours of video) and are set to be released as soon as next year."

Comments

It will be expensive

[The One KEA]

This latest DVD burning technology will undoubtedly be quite expensive, for both the drives and the media. Especially the media, since it will probably take Phillips a while to manufacture enough media for these devices.

OTOH, it will certainly make it easier for the home movie crowd.

Seriously

[chendo]

Why haven't they agreed on a standard format for DVDs yet? I can't keep track of the -s and +s.

Re:Seriously

[kzinti]

Why haven't they agreed on a standard format for DVDs yet?

What do you mean? They've agreed on many, many standards. So many standards we can each have one! Just take your pick...

Hard Drive is probably more reliable

[StellarEX]

I backed up about 100GB of data a few months ago on DVD+R, and they worked fine for a few months. Now most of them are giving me CRC errors when trying to read them in any drive. I deleted the data from my hard drive to save space like a fool. I might as well have just bought another hard drive to back them up for the cost of the DVD-R media and writing drive :/ They need to research more ways to make this media last rather than try to increase the size. 8GB of dammaged data isn't good for anyone...except maybe Soviet Russia.

Re:Hard Drive is probably more reliable

[WuphonsReach]

One recommendation for the future is to make use of the PAR/PAR2 utilties. (I personally use QuickPAR v0.7)

Basically, you create 'parity' files that you store on the DVD/CD along with the source files. Then, if any of the source files become corrupted, QuickPAR should be able to reconstruct the broken bits.

The amount of redundancy is up to you... 10% is normal, 20% might be worthwhile. (So to store 4Gb with 10% redundancy, you'll need 4.4Gb of space.)

No!

[cperciva]

These disks cannot store 4 hours of video. Definitely not. In fact, it's absolutely impossible to store compressed video onto DVDs.

We need these larger disks for backup purposes. Not just that, but we need these disks for backup purposes so that we can evil catch terrorists and corporate criminals.

Remember, these aren't on the market yet. And if they could be used for storing video, they might never reach the market.

Re:No!

[DrEldarion]

"Boy! I can't wait to get a spindle of 100 of these and start storing all those 400 hours of home movies from our digital video camera! What, you mean there are other uses for these? I had no idea..."

-- Dr. Eldarion --

Two things

[ejaytee]

First, the movie industry will not like this at all, because virtually every movie will fit onto a single recordable DVD at full bitrate.

Second, the Philips technical paper does say (as expected) that a new drive is required, with an objective lens that can focus into the two recording planes on a disc.

My new DVD+R/W drive has just made reservations for the basement suite next to the 2X CDROM drive.

Re:Two things

[goombah99]

Yep, until now the floodgates of dvd copying have been held back by the fact that movies are ubiquitously about 4.5GB insize and a single DVD-r cant hold that much. Sure you could copy it to your hard drive, but that gets full quickly (at least on a laptop). Or you could compress it, but then for people with home theaters this sucks in quality.

you could burn it onto two CDs but this cost money, is a hassle to actually do correctly, and is a hassle to play back correctly or in a timely fashion when you want to view it.

So until now actually making copies of DVD movies has had significant prohibitive obstacles which are now about to be erased. Of course this will not happen overnight since the price of these things and the media will still be a barrier. But Notice has been served. DVD copying is about to become a real issue.

Re:BlueRay

[The One KEA]

I think the biggest barrier to BlueRay is the fragility of the discs. The discs used by the BlueRay drives are very delicate because of the way they are manufactured, in order to work with a blue laser technology. IIRC, the discs thus have to be encased in cartridges, like old Sun SCSI CD-ROMs used to use.

People probably see that as a barrier to adoption, because instead of a thin disc you now have a big bulky cartridge. It will probably take a while to either get rid of that requirement or get rid of the stigma surrounding encased CDs.

The next challenge is ...

[Skapare]

The next challenge is to make a Linux distribution like Knoppix big enough to use that whole DVD.

Price & Standards

[TennesseeJeff]

Well, it looks like this will drive down the price of current single-layer DVD-R's (hopefully).

It also appears to comply with standard to play/read in all current DVD players/readers.

Backups will take fewer disks! Now what about the speed?

Re:dual layer double sided?

[The One KEA]

Those are stamped discs, not burned discs. Stamped discs are made using a radically different process where the pits and grooves on a DVD are actually built up in layers and stamped onto the backbone of the disc (the plastic part). Stamped dual-layer DVDs have existed for some time now; Phillips is saying that they invented burnable dual-layer DVDs.

Jack Valenti's gonna be livid

[crovira]

The average movie is 7+GB in size. 4.5GB drives were no threat to the MPAA. Hence we weren't subjected to a whole lot more than mere rhetoric from the end of Valenti's digestive system incapable of facial expression.

Given that most of the movie leaks to date have come from industry insiders, and that industry capable drives aren't common, the MPAA enjoyed what the RIAA could only whish it had, an exclusive advantage in both the market place and in the means of production.

Look forward to RIAA-style lawsuit writs being included in the installation instructions with every drive.

What I'd like to see...

[zedenne]

i have one of those mini-cd mp3 players.

a mini-cd stores up to 180MB or about 25% of a standard cd.

i find this really useful for storing utilities and such, config docs, encrypted password files etc as they are small enought to fit in a jeans pocket.

now if we had a dual-layered mini-dvd i could get over 2Gb of data in my pocket!

that would be cool.

you could then pretty much fit a whole distribution on a business card!

Obligatory Tannenbaum Quote

[jay-be-em]

"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from."

Andrew S. Tannenbaum

Double Density

[sheemwaza]

Bah! I've had 9GB DVDs for a long time... all you have to do is use a hole punch to create a second notch on the disk, then insert it into the drive upside down!

...wait a minute, why is the end cut off of all my movies?