Grand Theft Auto Xbox 'Double Pack' Explored

Thanks to GameSpy for their brief interview with Rockstar Vienna's managing director over the forthcoming Grand Theft Auto/Vice City 'double pack' for the Xbox, which ships on 4th November. He reveals this conversion of both GTA games has "upped the resolution for HDTV usage, enabling 480p support along with a 16:9 aspect ratio for widescreen TVs", significant other graphical enhancements, including "much higher resolution textures", "specular lighting" and "reflection maps", and best of all, that "...players will also be able to create their own stations and can make multiple soundtracks by ripping their favorite CD's onto the Xbox hard drive. Grand Theft Auto 3 recognizes each soundtrack as a CD that can be changed by the new CD changer."

Comments

Fuckin' hell

[SpatchMonkey]

They're surely milking the tits off the goat with this one. And I bet loads of suckers will still shell their cash out for another GTA3 that's almost exactly the same as the last two editions.

OOohoh ho oh ho

Re:Fuckin' hell

[Anonymous Coward]

Please do not mention Goats. -Chicago Cubs Fan

Feh!

[jvmatthe]

Incidentally, this is also coming out for the PS2, although without the graphical upgrade and soundtrack enhancements, AFAICT. But that's not why I posted.

Biggest Missing Feature:
Motorcycles in Liberty City.

Honestly, that would suck me into playing GTA3 all over again, just trying out the bikes for hours seeing what I could pull off. If they added that, I'd consider selling my GTA3 and GTA:VC for the PS2 just to have the upgraded version of GTA3 in the double pack.

Surely they thought about this. What's holding them back? Make it an easter egg, if need be, so you can avoid the "we couldn't test all situations and it wouldn't pass QA" argument.

Oh, and while you're reading, I always love plugging this little article. In short, GTA3 much better than GTA:VC, and that's all there is to it. Flame on! :^D

Re:Feh!

[Babbster]

Oh, and while you're reading, I always love plugging this little article. In short, GTA3 much better than GTA:VC, and that's all there is to it. Flame on! :^D

Besides the bugs - many of which I found exceedingly annoying in Vice City - most of that article seemed to be written by someone who was simply nostalgic for the "original" (as original as the third in a series can be), like the people who claim that Pac-Man is superior to Ms. Pac-Man. There's nothing wrong with that, since it's always going to be a matter of taste, but Vice City is certainly defensible as a superior game.

Re:Feh!

[Jad LaFields]

Oh, and while you're reading, I always love plugging this little article. In short, GTA3 much better than GTA:VC, and that's all there is to it. Flame on! :^D

Love the article. I'm happy to see that there are others that think similarly to me -- it feels bad saying that I liked GTA3 better than VC since so many gaming sites and people have said the opposite, but really that article hit right on the head.

I would love the addition of motorcycles and helicopters to Liberty City, its one of the few things I miss when I go back to that game after getting bored with Vice City.

Nope

[MBraynard]

This is for the Xbox. Those of us who own Xbox's have seen this game as the biggest reason that owning an Xbox rather than a PS2 was a mistake. I'm looking forward to getting a used copy a month later on Ebay for about $30.

Re:Nope

[SpatchMonkey]

Oh, didn't notice that. Thanks for the correction. In that case I take it all back, yo.

Are they going to fix the horrible clipping issues

[vasqzr]

Much worse in Vice City but c'mon....shit like that shouldn't make it to market.

also 720p

[gearheadsmp]

It also supports 720p, aka 1280x720.

Re:also 720p

[JFMulder]

It's a shame then, I was hoping for 1080i on Xbox. Soul Calibur 2 doesn't look that much better in 720p compared to 480p. I prefer playing games widescreen to playing them at a higher resolution.

Re:also 720p

[Babbster]

Unfortunately, even 720p is a stretch for the video memory in the Xbox when high-resolution textures and anti-aliasing are used. The games so far that have implemented 1080i (Dragon's Lair and Enter the Matrix) have used relatively low-resolution textures or cel shading, typically with no hardware anti-aliasing (admittedly, less of a problem at higher resolutions), to squeeze the higher resolutions into available memory. After all, despite 1080i being interlaced, you still need to render 1440x1080 or 1920x1080 - the two common 1080i resolutions - per frame to get the benefits.

I would prefer that for now they use high-resolution textures and anti-aliasing to achieve nice 480p pictures, rather than applying workarounds to get to the HDTV resolutions. With the next console generation, I expect that all the consoles (at least I hope all, but I'm 99% certain for Xbox2) will have NTSC/480p/720p/1080i options built into nearly every game. I'd rather wait a bit for the real deal rather than get a half-assed result now.

Re:also 720p

[JFMulder]

Unfortunately, even 720p is a stretch for the video memory in the Xbox when high-resolution textures and anti-aliasing are used
I only know of one game in 720p for the Xbox, Soul Calibur 2, and the visual are amazing. The texture are crisp and very high-def. I never noticed any slowdown. As I said, my only gripe with the game is that in 720p the fighting screen is still 4:3, and not 16:9. The rest of the game is in between 16:9 and 4:3, depending on the game screen. Very weird. Even in 480p, there is a rendering issue where the left and right part of the screen, plus the lower part are black. In other widescreen games like Halo or Amped, these part of the screens are filled. Any idea why is that so in SC2?

I expect that all the consoles will have NTSC/480p/720p/1080i options built into nearly every game.
I'd rather have them all in 16:9, 1080i, and no options. 480p resolutions are fine on a TV, but pixellation becomes evident when you're dealing with home projectors, even in games which have antialiasing.

Re:also 720p

[DeadScreenSky]

SCII isn't widescreen because Namco is lazy. :) I suspect a more important reason is that it would change the gameplay a little bit, but it still boils down to them being lazy.

And I would be really pissed if future games didn't allow a progressive display. The resolution of 1080i is very impressive, but I would still take something like 720p over it any day. Interlacing just sucks. Another important reason to shy away from it is not all HDTV displays support 1080i, so you would be abandoning that (large, by HDTV standards) market.

And I believe Tony Hawk 4 (and maybe 3) also does 720p, along with a few other games.

Re:also 720p

[unclethursday]

Another important reason to shy away from it is not all HDTV displays support 1080i, so you would be abandoning that (large, by HDTV standards) market.

My HDTV doesn't support 720p, just 480i, 480p, and 1080i. Granted, it's a smaller HDTV (27", normal screen ratio), and isn't widescreen, but more of the smaller HDTV's I've looked at seem to skip supporting 720p, rather than skipping 1080i.

Thursdae

Re:also 720p

[wolrahnaes]

Correction for ya:

Halo is definately NOT widescreen.
The Xbox just stretches it to fill the screen, like it does for the dashboard when not properly configured.

Re:also 720p

[DeadScreenSky]

That is interesting. 720p is actually putting out very slightly more data than 1080i, so I guess more HDTVs are using 'cheap' screens that can't handle it? Regardless, it seems silly to decide not to support any of the 3 standard HDTV resolutions, though I wouldn't mind seeing some niche console games designed for a minimum 720p, especially things like shmups.

Re:also 720p

[Babbster]

And I would be really pissed if future games didn't allow a progressive display. The resolution of 1080i is very impressive, but I would still take something like 720p over it any day. Interlacing just sucks. Another important reason to shy away from it is not all HDTV displays support 1080i, so you would be abandoning that (large, by HDTV standards) market.

1. Actually, virtually all HDTV-ready TVs support 1080i and relatively few support 720p. You'd be hard-pressed to find an HDTV that will take a 720p signal and not a 1080i signal, while the reverse is very common - especially in "affordable" HDTVs (affordable to my mind being under $1,500).

2. Interlaced doesn't suck as bad as some think. It was considerably worse on computer monitors (hence souring the group that had to use them) because a) people sit very close to computer monitors, as opposed to TVs where most people sit at least several feet away and b) the interlacing was distracting on a 60-Hz screen displaying static images. With high-motion video, common in video games, interlacing can hardly be noticed, especially at normal TV viewing distances.

Short answer: Go look at a nice TV displaying 1080i, especially for a sports event (basketball season is coming up) - that should convince you that interlacing isn't that big a deal.

Re:also 720p

[codemonkey_uk]

No it doesn't. It supports 480p HDTV with FSAA.

720p only on Xbox, to clarify

[gearheadsmp]

Clarification: The upped resolution of 720p is only on Xbox.

DAMMIT

[daVinci1980]

Now I'm gonna have to buy the XBox version as well.

Gotta fetch 'em all.

So essentially...

[op51n]

They're porting the PC versions to X-Box. I guess, they're adding wide-screen and env-mapping, but they're both present in the engine for Vice City, so it can't be that difficult to essentially swap 3 across to the updated engine. Now, I wonder if they're going to offer us an up to date 3 for the PC. I'd shell out for it, since even on my up to date machine, 3 runs like a dog compared to VC, as well as not having especially nice texturing or reflections. But still, it's not a huge advancement. Worth it for X-box owners I admit.

The tilting point

[aacool]

Let's not underestimate the significance of this release - granted it's a dated game, and agreed that most XBox owners have probably played the PC version at least.

The point is GTA3/VC was seen as a killer app for the PS2 and it's availability on XBox will have an impact on console purchase decisions, IMHO. Also, TTWO gets a bundle more of money, which should drive the schedule of GTA4? up

That being said, check out Max Payne 2 and True Crime - Streets of LA - both multi-console for some more awesome gangster-noir riffs in the genre, both also out soon

On another note, do read Jim Thompson's classic novels for a feel of life in the fast lane:)

Re:The tilting point

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I gave up on PC gaming a year ago when I bought my Xbox. I was tired of wasting money upgrading my stupid video card every year. So no I haven't ever played GTA3 and I can't wait to get my hands on it. I think I'm not alone on this front a lot of people have consoles because they either don't have a pc or have a pc with a 2meg video card like mine.

Re:The tilting point

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

Most people who are considering making consoles purchases at this point in the current generation are those who already have a console and are considering getting a second one for the unique games that system has to offer. Most people who were so interested in GTA 3 and GTA:VC that they would buy a console to play them, already have and that choice has been a PS2. I don't think this will have a significant impact on XBox console sales (although I do think the pack will sell fairly well).

If Sony drops the price of the PS2 to $99, I would expect the XBox to run a distant third in console sales during the holidays.

Although, at this point, good console sales aren't that useful. They do create a good public perception of the manufacturing company and that will help out in the next generation - but there's only so much that can do. We're nearing the saturation point.

Re:The tilting point

[exick]

And then there are suckers like me who own all three consoles, own both the PS2 and PC version of these games, and will still shell out more money to pick up the double pack anyway. Hopefully there aren't too many like me.

Bah

[Quobobo]

Anyone know if the series will eventually make it to Gamecube?

Re:Bah

[okayplayer]

Nope. Sorry gamecube can't quite cut it for GTA.

My unusual opinion...

[okayplayer]

I had the wonderful fortune of being able to work at Rockstar Games as a tester for the GTA Double pack as well as a few other games. I thought I should just share my two cents as I have a lot of hands on experience with the games.

Firstly, in my OPINION, GTA3 is better than VC. Its just my opinion, no linked articles needed. Thats not to say that I do wish GTA3 included motorcycles but the way I see it, motorcycles just aren't part of the game. Much in the same way that children aren't in the game. They are just not there. Understand?

Now down the the details.

In GTA3 the graphics really are much improved even over the PC version. Vienna really did a good just with the graphics hardware of the xbox. Check out the new car models, they even have engines under the hoods. The rims on the banshee are fly. They are different enough that the first time you pull the e-brake and slide through the turn, you notice them. The reflections as well have been improve A LOT. You can see the traffic lights on the top of the cars, and the people on the sidewalks as you drive by. The editable sound track feature is also a plus. Especially when your testing the game for as many hour as I did and can recite the Dormatron commerical in my sleep, All in all the improvements are really worth the look.

One important note is that a lot of care was taken in NOT changing the feel of the game too much. Like I said before, I'm a GTA3 fan so I was quite happy with the results.

VC gets the same type of makeover. The pastel colors never looked truer. I never got a chance to test the final control scheme (I had to go back and finish college) but I'm sure everything got ironed out.

I got to see the game in HD a couple of times and I think those of you lucky enough to take advantage of it will be very pleased.

I never got a chance to see any PS2 version as it wasn't being tested at my office. It was all done by North I believe.

Well I know there was more I wanted to post but I'm sure I'll get a chance when replying to the flames.

Buy the Double Pack, you will be paying my salary.

-------TEMP SIG----------
Because being fat can even ruin a romantic cruse!

Re:My unusual opinion...

[jhorneman]

Hi. I worked on VC for the Xbox over at Rockstar Vienna. Thanks for the nice words! Everybody liked that. FWIW: the control issues for VC were worked out :)

Re:My unusual opinion...

[okayplayer]

Thanks for the informatin on the controls... I was the only one in NY who actually liked the original Heli controls. I guess I'll wait and see what its like in the final release. I had forgotten that you guys were doing VC as well as GTA3 (no need for rockstar code names anymore :( ). Well, i'm sure your did a great job and thanks for the response.

Re:My unusual opinion...

[jhorneman]

The code names were tough. Not only did you have to remember to use the code name, you also had to remember when NOT to use the code name, e.g. when discussing the PS2 game with friends outside of work ;)

Check out Nov's Xbox Magazine

[Dolemite_the_Wiz]

This month they have a HUGE writeup about GTA3 and next month they'll have a write up of VC.

This game is to be released 11/4 and, in addition to the above features:

- Has Dolby 5.1 Surround sound support.
- The general draw distance is being increased so that you can see more of the city at once.
- The Button Layout for this game is 100% customizable.
- The additional memory of the Xbox will allow you to leave cars right where you leave them.
- Area Loading is cut by as much as three times in some areas of the game.

Dolemite
_______________

i just have one simple question

[Recoil_42]

looked at your user account, and your email is hidden, so im hoping you'll look back and reply --

have the bugs in vice city been fixed?


i havent actually played VC, but ive heard it has some really nasty bugs. i plan to buy the pack on the 4th anyways, but like i said, i just want to know if they;ve fixed vice city's glitches.

thanks :)

Re:i just have one simple question

[okayplayer]

I never really played VC that much on PS2 either so like you, I'm not sure what bugs were in the game to start with. I can say that since I tested GTA3 for two months, six days a week, 13 hours a day that the game has very few remaining bugs.

As I'm sure most readers of this site know, big pieces of software like GTA3 and VC are very hard if not impossible to have completly bug free, especially in games where the idea is that anything is possible to do its hard to try everything. For GTA3 we had both the Vienna office and ours working on it for QA testing for a LONG time. Trust me when I say that Rockstar is very dedicated to its testing. We do try to get everything.

When I left the bug database was a testament to how hard we tested the games.

If you could let me know the bugs that your concernd about I can email your thoughts to the people who would know the answers and email you with their responses.

As a little evidence to how much they made me play the game, I can 100% GTA3 in just over one long ass work day. Hey, they bought dinner.