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Adobe Makes Products Harder to Use, More Expensive
An anonymous reader writes "This is a follow-up to an earlier story on slashdot about Adobe releasing their Creative Suite package. It seems that Adobe has decided to go they way of Intuit's TurboTax last year and add activation to their products. Legitimate users are up in arms. For Adobe, they follow the steps of other companies, macromedia, quark (who coincidentally shipped their entire engineering offshore) in the graphics biz. Now since in theory they'll be making more money, I hope at least the price goes down (oops, it did not, looks like the upgrade price even increased)."
Perhaps if we don't update there get the hint
The EDU Price for the Suite is $399 (where I am, anyway)....so its a steal over the retail....activation or not.
all the other products requiring "activation", someone will release a hack and there unbeatable, perfect scheme to get people to stop piracy will fail.
There is only 1 way to stop piracy.....
DROP THE HIGH PRICES ON SOFTWARE!
Simple enough.
Shouldn't Adobe wait until they actually steal more of Quark's XPress customers away, before they start doing the same shit Quark did to drive their customers away in the first place?
~Philly
It's widely warez'd, and I think that's part of the reason it's the industry standard. So many people get their start using photoshop on a pirated copy. If that weren't the case, I don't think Adobe would have the market share that they have now.
Being bastards like this will probably do them more harm than good.
My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!
I use quark and various adobe products for DP work and I have to meet deadlines. When it's 8 pm and I have to ship files by 8:45, I can't spend time troubleshooting an installation of a product that just went haywire. I don't have time to spend 2 hours on the phone with customer support figuring out how to RE-activate. (the activiation codes in quark are roughly 40 numbers long. 40 numbers!!!. Try communicating that over the phone line with a guy in india.
My old solution: I have another computer with the same software installed. When one goes down, I drop it like and empty bic lighter and fire up the other one. No problem.
With software activation, I can't set up this failsafe without blowing my department's budget.
softare activation wankers
tcd004
I have a problem with product activation because it puts too much control into the software publisher's hands over how I use the software I've paid for. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to need to reactivate. I want to plan my software and hardware upgrades according to *my* schedule, not some vendor's. Fortunately, some companies are already learning hard lessons about product activation. Check out this story on Intuit: http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/19/technology/techinv estor/hellweg/
The company I work for bought a program called Stream Anywhere from Sonic Foundry a while back. It's great. We use it on every streaming media production that comes out of our video edit suite. But Sonic Foundry doesn't sell it anymore and they were just bought by Sony. Will Sony issue me a new activation code in the future if/when I move to a new computer? Will they even keep the key-generator around for an end-of-life product? What if I upgrade my computer in two years and I need to reactivate but they can't or won't give me a code?
We also spent $6,000 on a product to let us sync PowerPoint slides to live streaming video. When you install it and run it for the first time, it wants to connect over the internet to register. When we installed it on a different machine that we bought just for this purpose, I had to call them and talk them into letting me activate it again. This isn't an activation code -- it actually talks to their servers to activate.
What do I do if this small vendor goes out of business and I have to reinstall Windows for whatever reason? Am I just SOL? I wouldn't be able to reactivate even on the same machine because of the method they use. This isn't as much an issue with someone big like Microsoft or Adobe, but smaller companies usually follow ideas of the larger companies. I could see in a few years where everything from big commercial apps down to small shareware programs require activation.
Even with a big vendor, what's going to happen when they end-of-life the product? Will I still be able to reactivate PhotoShop CS or Windows XP several years down the road when there's a newer verison out? Or will they refuse to reactivate it and tell me I have to purchase a copy of whatever newer program they are currently selling? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the later. They have everything to gain yet the customer stands only to lose.
Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm writing to Abode to let them know I don't like it and won't purchase any of their products that use product activation. Most importantly, I'm going to vote with my wallet (and my company's wallet where applicable).
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
"or more" is right much, much more. Sadly, Photoshop has gone from being just "very expensive" to being one of the most absurdly overpriced pieces of software around. If it was *just* $100 I'd sure buy it - as it is, I'll make do with cheaper alternatives.
I recently felt really good about deploying Acrobat 5.0 with a customer for in-house forms work. Basically, they had 45 people. 2 stations had Acrobat so they could make forms, everyone had the free reader, and the 10 few who needed to save or sign forms had the $50 Acrobat Approval. This worked wonderful, was affordable, and I could feel good about PDF as an "open" format.
So what happened? Acrobat 6.0 came out. Sure enough, they left out Approval. Their customer service tells me to either get Adobe Acrobat Elements (1000 licenses or more only!) or "upgrade" to Acrobat 6.0 (mind you, they have a Standard or Professional version now). So I just went from:
2x$250 + 10x$50 = $1000
to
12x$250 = $3000
That was not cool and makes me look like a dork for recommending Adobe as being somehow "more open" than, say, MS Word. To this day, they won't even say that there will be no Approval version. All I want is for them to say "we don't plan on it" so that I can just tell my customers to abandon it--they won't even do that. They just say "stay tuned to the website for the next exciting release".
This mentality makes me wonder when PDF will become a closed format.
Adobe is plummeting rapidly on my list.
I think Mauve has the most RAM. --PHB (Dilbert Comic)
(taps sword to shoulders)
Rise, Sir GIMP Pimp!
Okay, the GIMP is truly great and a credit to the Free Software community. However, the industry standard remains Photoshop. People have a lot invested into it: all their previous work is in PSD format, and they probably have all sorts of custom filters and such. Also, if you want to collaborate with others, it's much more likely that they will have and know how to use Photoshop rather than the GIMP. While it's easy to get the GIMP, it can be confusing at first (just like Photoshop) and people don't want to have to relearn everything just to work with you. In short, the GIMP is a wonderful piece of software and is gaining on Photoshop rapidly, but it just doesn't have the same position as an industry standard.
That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
Err, no.
Adobe lets you activate on two computers. In fact, most Adobe licenses allow you to use their software on a "primary" and a "secondary" computer, as long as you don't use it at the same time on both machines.
Sheesh, talk about overreacting..
Nathan
for now. They say though that if acceptance of activation goes, it will be added to other products and platforms. So even if you buy it now and it has no activation, thats not to say a patch in six months will add it on (though, will you be forced to accept such a "patch")?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Not sure that it handles forms and whatnot but for basic viewing of PDF files it works great and starts faster than Acrobat. You can even set up a Postscript printer to print to a file and convert that .ps file to a .pdf yourself.
Bleh!
Product activation in my experience too often gets in the way of non-infringing use. When I buy a new computer, or a just new hard disk, I want to reformat my old hard disk and reinstall all of my software on the new one.
Most pirates won't dare use pirated software for commercial purposes. They can lose it all if caught. And most non-commercial users aren't planning to buy photoshop in the first place. In this rare case, software piracy BENEFITS THE SOFTWARE COMPANY. The result is more people know how to use photoshop when entering a commercial environment, which is when they are most likely to make a purchase. Otherwise, there are many alternative products that amatuer users can get their hands on without a high initial investment, like Paint Shop Pro eval and the Gimp, and they will prefer those alternative products in the workplace.
Existing versions are pretty good. I see no need to upgrade unless they add some great new feature that turns the entire industry upside down.
Pretty much my thoughts...
We had several users that needed Acrobat just to make "read only" forms. When more people ask, we're going with OpenOffice (just push the PDF button and poof, PDF!). Our graghics people are gettting The Gimp for Windows instead of Photoshop. Activation has nothing to do with this, it has to do with costs. Adobe is pricing themselves out of the market, and OSS strikes again.
~corporate tool, but employed~
The GIMP is an alternative to Photoshop.
No it's not. GIMP for Windows (and possibly for all platforms?) can't (won't) save as GIFs. That's a pretty big gap for a product that professes to be an alternative for Photoshop!
It is free.
Do you think the people who sell multi-thousand dollar ads using Photoshop give a crap about the $900 sticker price?
The bus is cheaper than my car, but you don't see me on the bus, do you? I could wipe my ass with last week's newspaper, but I'll spring for the toilet paper instead, thanks. "Free" doesn't automatically mean "better." I could eat dirt for free, or chicken for a couple of bucks. Hmm...
With that unbeatable price, you even get the source code !
Do you think the people who buy Photoshop give a shit about the source code? Do you think they even know what "source code" is?
If there's a bug, you can do the debugging yourself.
I've been using Photoshop for several years now, and haven't found a single bug. The few days I spent fighting with the GIMP, on the other hand, it crashed several times. But hey! I've go the source code, and it was free! I can spend days and days fixing it myself, instead of earning the tousands of dollars I would otherwise have earned from the graphics I could have been designing! Surely that's worth the $900 I saved, right? Not!
Plus, if you think you wanna tweak the code to your own liking, you can do it.
Photoshop already has more features than I know how to use. I'd rather use the software as it is to create products I can sell, rather than donating my time improving a sub-standard product for free.
With photoshop, you don't get the source code.
Yah, that's a big deal. I think that's what's hindered Windows from gaining widespread adoption. The lack of source code. That must be it. Windows could've been huge, if they'd only included the source code.
Plus, if you want a legal copy, be prepared to fork over your hard earned money.
Do taxi drivers bitch about spending money on the car they use to earn their living? Do airlines consider stealing the airplanes to use to earn their revenue? Do mechanics bemoan the few hundred bucks they spend on their tools, so they can charge you $80 an hour to change your oil?
Here's a clue: when you use something that costs $n to perform services that can bring you $(n*100) per day, you don't bitch about the $n. Saving the $n isn't even a factor. The only thing that matters is how easily and quickly it allows you to perform theh tasks that earn you the dough.
You definitely don't spend your valuable time fixing bugs and making the "free", sub-standard product functional, while your customers wait patiently for you to take their orders.
Also, if you find a bug, you can't do anything about it, because you are at the mercy of Adobe.
We're up to version 7, pal. All major bugs are fixed. All minor bugs are fixed. We're in the "continuous improvement" phase now.
So why are you using Photoshop ?
Because it's stable, works, is affordable, generates money for me, has a wealth of published materials documenting it, is supported, mature, reliable, and well-known.
Download GIMP now !
Uh, no thanks. You have fun with your buggy little "free" toy. While you're busy implementing features that should already have been there and fixing bugs that never should have made it into the "stable" tree, I'll be taking care of your customers.
You won't regret it.
Spring for the professional software that lets you forget about all the meaningless things like tweaking the hundred-thousand line source code and focus on delivering what your customers want.
You won't regret it.
Stay in school, kid.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Others have mentioned Gimp as a potential alternative to Photoshop. Sodipodi is considered to be a potential alternative to Illustrator. Sodipodi also strives to be the best SVG editor around, free or commercial.
However, anyone who has used either knows that they need more work to get them up to the level of quality artists need. These projects need your help. Instead of forking out more C notes to Adobe or wasting time warezing, do something constructive.
You can make a significant contribution for as little as a few afternoon's of your time. Write a tutorial or a chapter for the GIMP Users Manual (GUM) or the Sodipodi User's Manual (SUM). Publish an article about the apps for a suitable online or print magazine. Or just teach it to some friends. If you can code, pick a bug or feature request and contribute a patch to address it. If you don't code but want to, take it as an opportunity to learn how and to be a part of the Open Source community's successes.
Tell me
Why'd you have to go and add product activation?
It's just gonna lead to lots of user frustration.
It's like this it'll
Be hacked 'till it's cracked and then it will be put on p 2 p
Honestly, it's not gonna stop the pirates anyway...
No, no, no.
*groans*
I, for one, would welcome new jokes.
To get it off everybody's chest, whether trying to be funny or otherwise:
"All your foreign software are belong to us."
"In Soviet Russia, program activates you!"
"Paying for Photoshop: Priceless.
Paying for an upgrade: More."
"Photoshop? Nice. But does it run the GIMP?"
"<Beowulf - nuff said>"
"1. Sell product for too much.
2. Sell upgrade for more.
3. Profit.
4. ??????
5. Activation!"
And last but not least, one that seems to be gaining popularity:
"Why is this news?"
This is bigger than Adobe. What happens when the smaller vendors start using product activation and aren't so generous? What happens when those small vendors go out of business and you're left with useless software? We need to fight this now before the smaller software companies see the larger software companies doing it and jump on the bandwagon.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
It's true that Panther and Jaguar have no features to help out a product that's trying to add product activation - actually, I don't know that Windows XP even has a framework for that yet.
But just because the OS does not help the app writer do something, does not mean they cannot do what they like within the app. After all, they have the code - if they really want to they can have the product require the use of the internet and talk to the company to allow you to run it every time. Product activation is a less extreme example of this where if the system changes much it demands to get an OK from "Big Daddy" as it were to let you run the thing. Any app could do that, most choose not to.
So buying a mac does not necessarily protect you from product activation - though you could say that as a group, Mac users would probably be far less likely to accept activation and so they may decide it is too risky in that market. Since every user of XP by definition supports product activation (well, ok not the guys running pirated copies) it's a lot easier to just throw it into a product as you know the backlash will not be as significant a percentage of customers.
I don't like product activation from a consumer perspective of course, but to me the bigger crime is the resources it takes to develop by a company, for zero gain. Every time a company tries something like this there are always cracked copies without the protection floating around. So since activation does not really gain you anything in terms of stopping piracy why waste a companies valuable cash reserves and technical expertise on something so pointless? Instead they go to extra expense to hope that they will not drive off more than 10% of the instal base.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So I'm Joe Average user and I get home from work on a Friday to find out I've been hit by this nasty new virus. I spend a while trying to fix it, but can't. I call up my friendly neighbourhood computer shop who tells me he wants 3 figues to fix it and he tells me it may end in a format.
I decide that I can backup my stuff myself and as I have disks for all my software, this isn't too big of an issue. So I format, install windows and with a new sound card find myself on the phone dealing with product activation. That's frustrating as it's past midnight and the phone lines aren't staffed as well as they could be.
This by itself is frustrating......but imagine this is the norm....imagine I have graphical software, tax software, a few games and several apps...all paid for and all requiring activation. How happy do you think I'd be?
As long as activation isn't the norm it's not too big of an issue...more of an inconvenience....but it has the potential of being much more of a problem in the not to distant future.
1.- Broke student downloads Adobe.
2.- Broke student learns Adobe through college.
3.- Broke student makes a name as an Adobe artist (whink, whink!).
4.- Company hires broke student and PAYS adobe because it can afford it. Otherwise company would have kept that other obscure graphics package that never made it out of a joint venture or out of obscurity.
Did you really think Adobe would be as stupid as you to actually ignore this basic fact?
Ask Microsoft, I got a visit from a local freelance support guy, I noticed he had 1 CD with Windows 3.11, 95 AND 98 in only 1 CD! do you expect me to believe MS had no way to prevent the creation of such a CD? pleassseeeee!! they owe their whole businesses to warez!
While we're at it let's just toss those letters of objection about European software patents and wait until we actually have software patents that are causing problems. No need to chase non-existant "what if" scenarios.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
There is no "open source alternative" for Photoshop, After Effects, or most of the other high end Adobe products.
Not yet, but I think many people underestimate the open source movement. As Taco Cowboy pointed out, proprietary software is continually distancing itself from the end users. More and more people are turning to Open Source, and it's not going to stop because it is FREE!
There will eventually be alternatives for the products you mentioned as well as others. Eventually people are going to be sick of shelling out money for things that they can do for free.
Have you tried Linux yet?
Around Photoshop 4, yeah, I thought GIMP could become a contender against Photoshop, but the GIMP I saw 4 years ago and the GIMP I see today look a lot alike, only today's can't save to GIFS (well can now due to patents expiring). There are some high promised about GIMP 2.0, but if it still takes 16 steps with layers to Bevel text & add a drop shadow that takes about 4 mouse click in PS, what's the bloody point?
Again, nice job on that response.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
Just checked on my linux box, it saves them just fine. Don't know about Windows though, don't have one. Can't see why it won't on some platforms and will on others. Perhaps it has been enabled after the GIF patent expired.
Do you think the people who sell multi-thousand dollar ads using Photoshop give a crap about the $900 sticker price?
That's true. However there is a large audience to whom $900 matters a lot. eg:
1. Students
2. Companies that want to purchase several licenses
3. Most of the third world
The few days I spent fighting with the GIMP, on the other hand, it crashed several times.
Never crashed on me. Maybe you used a development version? (odd minor version number ==> development version)
Ok, usually I don't reply to my own post, but I should make a few clarifications:
1. I'm basing my crash problems on Quark 6 which I have little experience using so far. Previous versions of quark are notoriously buggy so I don't expect this one to be much better.
2. Also, I'm basing my knowledge of activation on Quark's current scheme. They only allow installation on one harddrive. (2 if you pay an extra fee for a "mobile") If that harddrive, or anything else on that machine fails, you're fucked. You can make 5 hardware changes to a system over the course of a year, but if you make 6, the software shuts down.
3. I'm also basing this reaction on my experience activating 3 copies of quark 6, not adobe.
The software has a built-in activation application that is supposed to function over the internet, BUT it doesn't function through a firewall. So, all three of my copies had to be activated by phone. This process took about 2 hours.
I was not a happy camper.
I hope Adobe does a better job at managing this process.
Normally, dongles are used with a very low volume, specialty software. Crackers are not interested in such software; imagine, for example, a package to control a sophisticated CNC or some industrial robot. A cracker won't ever get his hands on the set of software and hardware necessary to run the thing. Here the dongle serves as a barrier against owner of a herd of CNCs, so that he should buy a license for every machine he controls, instead of getting one and helping himself with the rest. A machine shop owner is not a cracker, and he won't even know how to contact one.
So dongles are a social solution to a social problem. They can not be applied mindlessly.
I've been scanning, then saving several >150mb (uncompressed) images as JPEGs using v7 of Photoshop. Every 15t or so image gets corrupted. When I try to open it, Photoshop complains about an invalid JPEG header. No other programs are able to open the file.
Do you think the people who sell multi-thousand dollar ads using Photoshop give a crap about the $900 sticker price? The bus is cheaper than my car, but you don't see me on the bus, do you? Spring for the professional software that lets you forget about all the meaningless things like tweaking the hundred-thousand line source code and focus on delivering what your customers want.
Sure, assuming everyone who needs to use a graphics program is up to their eyeballs in these thousand dollar contracts, then yeah, invest in your tools.
But this is like saying "There's no need for bus service since people who need transportation to work can afford a car." Some don't work. Some work but don't make enough to buy a car. Some don't want a car. Some aren't going to work. And a few actually like *being* on a bus.
Today, creating art is not the exclusive realm of professional artists, nor should it be. For many, expensive art software is simply beyond what they can justify for their modest needs. But There simply aren't a lot of alternatives to Adobe.
Without programs like Sodipodi and The GIMP, the choice wouldn't be between a car and a bus but between buying (or stealing) a car or not being able to go anywhere at all.
As to complaints about the community nature of open source development, think about it like this. Community software is like going to a potluck at your friend's house. Instead of having to pay $60 for a dinner at a restaraunt, you get the food for free, but the catch is that you're expected to bring something to share. If you like making stuff, it gives you a chance to show off your skill. A potluck may not be as convenient as a restaraunt but can be a lot more fulfilling and fun.
While I would love to see it be true, I doubt that software like Gimp, Sodipodi, Open Office, Linux, and so forth would ever completely replace proprietary alternatives. If nothing else, professionals will always need to have that edge beyond what 'the masses' can do, and will be more than willing to invest in obtaining that edge. But I think it is critical that we also have the alternatives freely available for those who can't have or don't want the dominant player.
And companies that just want to hack up a couple graphics twice a year... $100 something for Paint Shop Pro is a good deal for a lot of these people...
Can't find the "-1 Too Intelligent, Please Go Away" button !
Thomas Miconi-
Man, if it was me, and I was in a business situation with a very very close and important deadline, and this junk pops up? I'd have that key piece of software cracked so fast it wouldn't know what hit it. The software is meant to serve ME, not the other way around. If I've got a license sitting RIGHT THERE, and I CAN'T USE IT? Crack it, not worth the time to play their silly games.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
The GIF and TIFF plugin binaries are separate downloads, at least on Windows and Debian. This was because of the LZW patents. I'm not sure how future releases handle them.
Regarding GIMP's crashiness - Linux 1.2.x version is rock solid and not even the mightiest powers known to humankind could shake its foundations, but Windows version is slightly unstable. (Not much - one or two crashes in a week, and it's usually only happening when I'm running out of disk space...)
I think its great you pay for your software and you like the product you buy. What annoys me is when companies let people get away with using products for free just to increase the user base, cutting out other cheaper alturnatives which would have been tried IF people had to pay for the software. Sorry to everyone else here, but I am PRO product activiation. Irs about time people see the true price of the software they use, rather than getting a free ride. More people that try and use alturnatives the more "acceptable" it will be not to use the "professional" product.
James
I'm tired of these arguments, people keep saying them but it won't make them true.
Unix systems also had millions of dollars of engineering (strange measuring unit for engineering), X Window also...
Adobe doesn't (to the best of my knowledge) use secret algorithms, they have high quality standard and know how to leverage a few technological advantages to get a strong grip on the market.
Also, speaking as if Open Source or Free software was only written by hobbyists or students is a little ignorant, don't you think? Have you checked the eclipse project, for instance?
If you're good with Photoshop it's difficult to not make more money than you spent on it in a year. Even a beginning designer could make enough to buy the whole suite in under a week. Plus it's deductible.
Now there's a lot of people recommending thg Gimp in this thread and if you use it and enjoy it that's fine. But feature and usability-wise there is absolutely no comparison. Yes, OSS is wonderful but the fact remains that for someone who is trying to make money using a bitmap-editing program Photoshop offers a better value propisition than the Gimp does, even though you have to pay for it. Adobe doesn't take the money they make from Photoshop and use it to pay for a factory that converts orphans and kittens and orphaed kittens into fuel oil, they improve their products continuously. There's a reason that a real alternative to Photoshop doesn't exist and it's not because Adobe is anticompetitve or anything, it's because it's really hard and really expensive to make software as good Photoshop unless you're just ripping off thier feature list as quickly as you can. One of the reasons that I don't like The Gimp is that except for Script-fu and a mess of a user interface the developers brought nothing original to the bitmap editing table and are instead content to just poorly ape the work of others. Now that's innovation, eh?
As far as activation goes, it's not that big of a deal either. Adobe is only using it on Photoshop for Windows. It's pretty obvious that it'll get cracked. They're probably just doing it to please their dumb shareholders who think that all those copies of Photoshop being used to ham-fistedly combine Domo-kun, Admiral Akbar and the Eiffel Tower at Fark will somehow magically become sales.
Parent makes a good point. Don't believe it? Well...
I once came dangerously close to losing a job over suggesting the use of GIMP.
I worked for an NPO that provides essential living services (as well as group home services) for persons suffering from Cerebral Palsy. Like many NPO's, budgetary cutbacks were always sources of stress. So, during a roundtable where we were discussing switching as many departments as possible to open source alternatives, GIMP came up. This never went beyond the meeting table, but I was summarily written up for insentivity.
And I am one of the very last "Thalidomide Children" (early 70's). For those that don't know, thalidomide caused birth defects (usually related to extremeties). Missing a hand, since birth, over here and I was severely reprimanded and nearly canned over suggesting a software title.
It may seem silly, but people put alot into a name.
----
#SickNotWeak
Asstroll.
* GIMP, for every platform, saves GIFs.
* GIMP has several features that I've been searching for in Photoshop for years, and haven't been able to find.
* GIMP is incredibly stable.
* I've only run into one worth-mentioning GIMP bug. Ever.
* I use GIMP daily, and have never seen the source code
* Photoshop is not "Continuously Improving" -- it's just continuously getting larger and slower. I find Photoshop 6 a good deal easier to actually get work done with than 7, and I can't find any worthwhile new features anywhere.