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Lindows Announces Nvu - Frontpage For Linux?
CmdrStone writes "Michael Robertson, the Lindows founder, has announced in his 'Michael's Minute' newsletter that Lindows has started the creation of a Frontpage-type program for Linux, called Nvu." Nvu promises to be "...a complete Web Authoring System for Linux Desktop users to rival programs like FrontPage and Dreamweaver", is "100% open source", and will be free to download when it launches.
The fact that it's built from the Mozilla code base is encouraging...
Unfortunately (according to the FAQ), it won't be available until the first quarter of 2004
it will be more like dreamweaver, and less like frontpage. I can handle a tool that takes out a lot of the headaches from doing rollovers, adding scripting, and flash files. Dreamweaver was always great at that (I haven't messed with web design in a few years). But if anyone tries something as stupid as frontpage extensions, I hope the whole community laughs in thier face. From what I've seen from him, he is not stupid, just trying to make it easier for non-tech geeks to get away from windows, and this could be a good thing. I have had many people tell me one of the reasons for shying away from linux is (besides lack of cutting edge games) no easy wysiwyg html editors. Not everyone wants to lookn at the code. Granted, even when I used to use dreamweaver, the code always got cleaned up in homesite or notepad (thank god I use linux now) before it ever saw the net. This should work out to be a good move.
> People actually use those things?
> I thought every self-respecting geek just used text editors.
You just answered your own question. Nvu is for people, not geeks.
The unofficial
Same ol' from Robertson and co, take an existing open source project, change a few graphics, and call it a revolutionary new product which will change the world.
Guy's got balls, I'll give him that.
I congratulate the lindows team for launching this project.. clearly not aimed a linux geeks, but for the average lindows user. Those who use vi or emacs wont be using lindows anyway... thank you lindows for making linux more accessable to those who are fed up with windows
xmlns:w="ur n:schemas-nvu-com:nvu:editor"w 3.org/TR/REC-html40">
> f gte mso 9]><xml>w serLevel>
xmlns="http://www.
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<meta name=ProgId content=Nvu.Document>
<meta name=Generator content="Nvu 1.0">
<meta name=Originator content="Nvu 1.0">
<link rel=File-List href="hello_html_files">
<title>Slashdot Comment</title>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:DocumentProperties>
<o:Author>AC</o:Author>
<o:LastAuthor>AC</o:LastAuthor>
<o:Revision>1</o:Revision>
<o:TotalTime>1</o:TotalTime>
<o:Created>2003-10-30T03:05:00Z</o:Created&g t;
<o:LastSaved>2003-10-30T03:06:00Z</o:LastSaved>
<o:Pages>1</o:Pages>
<o:Characters>5</o:Characters>
<o:Lines>1</o:Lines>
<o:Paragraphs>1</o:Paragraphs>
<o:CharactersWithSpaces>5</o:CharactersWithSpaces
<o:Version>10.2625</o:Version>
</o:DocumentProperties>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[i
<w:NvuDocument>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:Compatibility>
<w:BreakWrappedTables/>
<w:SnapToGridInCell/>
<w:WrapTextWithPunct/>
<w:UseAsianBreakRules/>
</w:Compatibility>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:Bro
</w:WordDocument>
</xml>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US style='tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=NvuoNormal>Like frontpage, huh?</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
Emacs can work as a text editor? How do I enable that feature?
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
is a Quickbooks replacement. Give me that and I could have every office in town running Linux. I mean, with it you can have a $25,000/year secretary do your accounting instead of a $60,000+ CPA (at least for small to mid-sized businesses). That's the killer app Linux is missing.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
With web management. So, the editor may be Moz Composer, but some new stuff is on it.
I know there are a lot of geeks out there who will blast this effort as unnecessary--they are the same people who believe the best HTML editor is really a text-editor with an HTML quick-reference sheet handy... These are some of the very same people who loathe the idea of ANYTHING that might pollute the open source world with Windows-like things--in short: anything that infringes on their idea of Unix-like purity. Sure, I too can edit HTML myself if I really wanted to.
However, I think this effort is a HUGE leap forward, not only because it is all open source, but because it is one more tool in the open source arsenal that can be used to fight back at the Microsoft camp.
The fact of the matter is, there are a LOT of people out there for whom FrontPage is absolutely indispensible. These are some of the same people who will be asking a very pointed and straightforward question about migrating to Linux: "Will Linux run something like Microsoft Office?" Just as we need an Office suite like OpenOffice or StarOffice, I think it is high time we had a complete website authoring tool. People from all walks of life, both those in the professional world as well as those doing it just as a hobby, could benefit.
WYSIWYG HTML editors are very useful to get most of your interface done FAST ; then, you can change some details with your favorite text editor.
Furthermore, writing accuented text in plain HTML is such a pain in the ass it's not even funny. You have to type stuff like "é" instead of a sole key on a French keyboard ( I'm French-speaking ), and since most languages have non-standard - according to English, that is... - characters and that these are very common in text for some languages, I think such a feature is essential to a top notch international HTML editor.
I don't care much about vi and Emacs fanboys in here arguing how lame WYSIWYG editors are, the fact remains the same : these can do the bulk of some work fast, easily and effectively, and details can then be reworked in HTML mode as needed. Get the memo : knowing HTML doesn't make you 1337.
Waiting for the flames...
United States of America, good ol' backers of world peace.
Wow. How do you get your head through doors?
Emacs (or vi, for the enlightened) is fine if you do little bitty websites. It's even fine if you want to php your website. But if you are only one of several people who provide content, a large number of whom are (*gasp*) writers or graphic designers by trade, and think that PHP is what ravers use to stay up all night long, Emacs and vi won't cut it. Now, this is a development. Not as big of a development as when it is actually ready, but still a development.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
ctrl-meta-c k meta-p 1 1 ctrl-v shake it all about, you do the hockey pokey and turn yourself around. AFAIK that's what it's all about.
snot....
...
/snot....
SQL-Ledger is a double entry accounting system. Accounting data is stored in a SQL Server, for the display any text or GUI browser can be used. The entire system is linked through a chart of accounts. Each item in inventory is linked to revenue, expense, inventory and tax accounts. When you sell and purchase goods and services the accounts are automatically updated.
With the assembly feature you can build manufactured goods from parts, services and assemblies. When you sell assemblies all the accounts linked to the individual parts, services and assemblies are updated and stock levels adjusted accordingly. If any item belonging to an assembly is changed all assemblies are updated as well.
Invoices, Packing List, Income Statement, Balance Sheet, Sales and Purchase Order, Statements, Receipts and Checks are generated from templates and may be changed to suit your needs. Templates are provided in html and tex format. The tex templates are processed with latex to produce postscript and PDF documents and can be sent to a printer, displayed in a PDF viewer or sent out via email
SQL-Ledger can be used on any UNIX, Mac OS X and Windows computer. The application is written in Perl, developed on FreeBSD and Linux with Galeon, Konqueror, Netscape, Lynx, Links, W3M, Voyager, Explorer to render the display, Apache, thttpd, boa to communicate between the server and the browser, and PostgreSQL, Oracle, or DB2 to store accounting data.
Free to download, cool. That's nice.
But will it run on anything other than Lindows? Considering Lindows costs money, saying that Nvu is free to download and neglecting to mention that it only runs on Lindows wouldn't be something I'd put past Robertson.
It's like how MS offers IE 'free to download' (or used to) but it only runs on Windows - big deal, you have to buy Windows to get it.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
- Lindows.com is *paying* a developer to continue working on a current OSS product, Mozilla, which in turn will add to their product
- nvu claims to be fully open source, which they seem to have every intention of following up on.
- Lindows.com is paying.
This is a case of lindows putting their money where their mouth is. They're contributing to open source, while also trying to differentiate themselves in the market. Let's give em a chance here.Indeed the "Publish Settings" dialog shown in this image sitemanager.jpg still has the Mozilla icon on it.
--Murray Barton
Actually, although Front Page sucks, DreamWeaver is a great tool. For setting up a fairly complex page, it helps to have a UI like this -- you can have the HTML view in one pane and the (approximate) browser view in another pane. DreamWeaver is very standards-compliant (in my experience, although I definately only use a small subset of the full features).
:-).
The biggest feature I use is the style-sheet support, actually. Helps to click through a few menus to build up the correct CSS for "white text in Arial 10 pt with 5 pixels padding left and 10 pixels padding top" -- I don't have to wrack my brain to recall the right syntax for something I don't have to use a lot. I'm reworking a pretty large site right now (166 JSP pages), and being able to use this is helping a lot in removing all the old tags and putting in nice stylesheet directives.
So yeah, this self-respecting geek uses it. One of the few Windows-based tools I really like. Mind you, the only other editor I use is vi (even on Windows), so it all balances out
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
BlueFish is a very nice free HTML editor, as is Quanta -- but neither has anything to do with what FrontPage or Dreamweaver does. What _does_ occupy that space (kind of) is Mozilla Composer, and this Nvu is going be Composer with a new name and some icons, it sounds like.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I smell a bad egg...
The FAQ says Nvu will be "covered under the MPL".
Mozilla is tri-licensed MPL/GPL/LGPL, so the user chooses which license they wish to use the software under.
Lindows.com can't alter the licensing situation of existing mozilla code, but if they only make their improvements available under the MPL - it will be Free Software, but the mozilla folks won't be able to merge improvements into the mozilla codebase.
So basically, Lindows.com are fulfilling the bare minimum legal requirement, and purposely blocking cooperation (so they can have the best version).
Either that or the FAQ is wrong, but Lindows.com have a shakey record in terms of community spirit.
Ciaran O'Riordan
Expert in software patents or patent law? Contribute to the ESP wiki!
This is a great improvement of free web authoring tools, but today most websites do not consist of static pages. This worries me as this tool doesn't seam to handle that.
To be a Frontpage/Dreamweaver killer it need to handle database driven websites in a simple fashion. It also need to handle serverside scripting like jsp/php.
Anyway it's a start.
God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
I think I've looked at Bluefish before.
:-)
There are several great editors out there and Bluefish certainly stands near the top but...
where is the site manager like you'd find in Dreamweaver or (shudder) Frontpage?
Sorry, I love Linux and all other FLOSS. I use OpenOffice.org wherever possible. I browse and do email with Mozilla... I advocate as much as possible but until there is a high quality web authoring tool which also has a site editor, the only way you'll get me to give up Dreamweaver is by prying it out of my cold dead hand.
But I have hope - the tide of Open Source is rising faster and faster!
obviously Dell and AOL/Time Warner need CPAs. Medium sized (100 or so employees) buisnesses don't. I know of several that are doing exactly what I'm talking about. Accounting is basically a repetitive task that's only difficult because of the sheer number of laws, rules and computations involved. Quickbooks automates all that, reducing acounting to data entry.
As for a secretary being terrified of Linux, what makes you think they're not terrified of Windows. I once had to fix a computer where they only thing wrong was the secretary clicking 'cancel' when I.E. asked them if they wanted to leave a secure web site (they're homepage was a secure site, they couldn't get to any other site because they'd click cancel every time the dialog popped up). Computers are just tools to most people. Very expensive tools they're afraid of breaking. Heck, if anything Linux could finally put a stop to this nonsensical fear:
Me: This is your new computer.
Secretary: It looks complicated...
Me: Don't worry, you can't break anything. It won't let you.
Once people get used to computers they can't break the fear will evaporate and they'll start reading dialog boxes instead of panicing and clicking 'cancel'.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I use Vim for just about anything involving editing text. I'm a web developer so I started off with Allaire Homesite, then moved to ColdFusion Studio, then Dreamweaver when CF Studio was discontinued. After about 3 months using Dreamweaver, I switched to a Windows build of gVim and I'm very happy with it.
But you have to admit that Vim is definitely not for everyone. You wouldn't give it to your average business user -- or even to a HTML newbie. It's not only the unusual keyboard shortcuts and the RegExp-driven text find / replace that make it totally unusable for a non-geek, but Vim is still a primarily text-based app that doesn't even offer code hinting.
These days, HTML is commonly used in a typical business. If Linux wants to make it to the business desktop, it is important to have a good quality WYSIWYG HTML editor to give to those who can barely use a word processor, and those who just want to make quick edits without having to learn HTML. Face it, not everyone wants to do that.
And for the people who do know HTML (like myself), their life would become much easier if the people who don't could give them a simple HTML page instead of a horrible MS Word doc that's impossible to automatically convert to anything resembling sane, semantically correct HTML.
No flame intended, just wanted to point out that this project is not such a bad idea after all.
I signed up for a
And this dialog has the Netscape logo.
Lindows will be releasing it under the Mozilla license. And, they've contracted a ex-Netscape employee (Daniel Glazman) to be the lead developer.
Read here for more and past information:
Lindows.com Announces Mozilla-Based Nvu...
Lindows.com Contracts Daniel Glazman to Develop...
Daniel Glazman Starting Company to Develop Composer
"Syntax highlighting with support for ColdFusion, XML, PHP, SQL, Python, Perl, DTML - Zope, C++ and HTML, with more to come"
Wouldn't that make it a perfect drop-in replacement for Frontpage?
"The words of the prophets are written on the Slashdot walls."
Unless, of course, the plan for Lindows is to (gasp) actually make money off of their effort. Giving the code back to Mozilla so free versions of nVu can become available would cost them a lot at that point.
The fact is that the Mozilla code was put out under a specific license (or licenses, as the case may be) and Lindows is adhering to that. Just because you don't like the lack of altuism in their decision it is still within the bounds of the license and legal.