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Dealing with Outdated Automotive Software?
Jan Hendrik Montag asks: "My car mechanics had problems to fix a problem in electronic motor management with my 14 yr old Audi. That was not too surprising. But as my mechanic consulted a Volkswagen/Audi-company, they received the answer, that my car is too old and they don't have the appropriate devices and software to read my cars' mind. I just wonder, what will happen in 20 or 30 years to then-vintage-cars from today? Shouldn't there be a necessity to declare old car-software and diagnostic devices open-source just to make sure a collector then can repair his/her car just as it is possible to repair an old car from the 60's? Or will those cars be doomed in case of failure? What would be a solution?"
I've got a linux V6 in the garage
it's been running for 3 years without a service
It would be nice, but just because people depend on it doesn't mean that people are going to support or open source software. I'm not sure why car companies would care about their consumers enough to be any different.
There's no great secret to controlling an engine, so I don't see the point. If we want to think about this in computer terms, the engine controller is comparable to a text editor. Everyone knows what they do, there's a standard file format, no surprises. You don't like one, or the person maintaining it gives up, you use another one.
For some time now, you have been able to buy generic engine controllers which just need calibrating to work with your car's engine (I know, I work for a company who makes them). These aftermarket ones used to be pretty dumb - time, emissions legislation and cheaper microcontrollers have made a big difference to this now though. In fact, it's not inconceivable that an aftermarket one would give better performance/economy/emissions than the old one, by having more accurate calculation, better modelling of engine behaviour, etc.
Maybe there's someone who's desperate to use only original equipment, who will insist on using an engine controller with a dodgy old 8-bit micro when the cheapest Ford is coming off the production line with a 32-bit micro. I don't see the point in it myself. The engine controller doesn't change the character of the car (if calibrated to give a similar response to the old one), so replacing it shouldn't be an issue.
Grab.
This info is generally readily available online or at the library. Especially older 80's stuff, where retrieving codes is simply a matter of grounding a certain wire, or connecting a test lead to a particular terminal and watching a light flash. Seldom on the old stuff do you actually need a "Scan Tool" to pull codes, although it makes life much easier.
If it ain't a Model M, it's a piece of crap.
if we are still using internal combustion engines for transportation, we havent learned a thing
back in the day we didnt have no old school
My car mechanics had problems to fix a problem in electronic motor management with my 14 yr old Audi.
Was this sentence constructed by a 14 year old as well?
Despite how well you think modern cars are built, and some of them are built very well, they simply aren't intended to last 20-30 years. If anything, they will force them out of the market by doing exactly what they did to you - stop supporting and making parts for them.
:( (If I find some I'll let you know!)
As as a person who drives a car from the 60's ('64 Rambler Classic, specifically!), I can honestly say there is no way even an advanced home mechanic can fix their modern car as easily as that car... not the least reason being that most modern cars greet you with a rats nest of plastic and wires when you open the hood.
With older cars, you open the hood to find an engine of all things! Hell, there's enough room to climb in there and sit next to it while you work!
Anywho, I've heard stories of people sucessfully plugging their generic laptops into their car's computer and getting some useful data out of it. Unfortunately I don't have any sources
And yes, I agree that releasing software for outdated cars would be a Good Thing(tm), as it would make it that much easier for the average Joe to tinker should he be so inclined. Tinkering is seldom a bad thing!
=Smidge=
Get a second opinion. That car should be covered by OBD standards, so there should be at least some aftermarket solution. I have 2 rules:
1. Never trust mechanics
2. When someone tells me a certain mechanic can be trusted, refer to rule #1.
They will rob you blind if given the slightest chance they can get away with it.
IMO, late 70s to mid 80s automotive computers were crap. They were basically a computer controlled carburetor, with some timing adjustments. The EFI systems at the time were a little better, but not much. Try another mechanic, search salvage yards for the parts you need, or consider buying a newer car.
Find a better mechanic. I/my wife owns an 89 BMW 325i Conv. It is way cool, pretty fast, a lot of fun and cost less than $5k in very good condition (less than 100k california miles). We found that headaches are minimized if you find someone who is *truely* an expert in your car. At first we went to a mechanic to do some really minor work and everytime we took it back, something new was broken! Bad. (Mechanics will never admit fault for something like this, even if they fix it they act like they are doing you a favor) Anyway, find a good (very good) german mechanic. I'm willing to be a good vw mechanic may suffice, given the similarity of the makes, but not sure.
14 years is not that old. These cars should still be very fixable. You don't need a new car, you need a new mechanic. Ask around.
-Sean
I just had a problem with my 1996 Cavalear. Long story short I knew it was an ignition problem so I replaced the spark plugs, then the spark plug wires. Neither of these fixed the problem and the next thing to replace was the coil pack and then the ignition module.
Since I had just replace the wires I had found the coil packs and ignition modules we mounted in the dumbest palace...on the back of the engine, above the transmission! Now I know modern cars are packing the engine into a smaller and smaller area to give more room for the people rideing in the car, but since there was a ton of space in front of the engine, where a part that will fail several times in the lifetime of the car could have been mounted, it really pissed me off.
I gave up and took it in to my mechanic and the bill was around $140 to replace the coil pack that I suspected. If I would have replaced the part it would have cost me $20!
Whenever money is involved, these companies are always inventing ways to extract as much money as they can. And they wonder why we end up trying to "cheap out" and bargan shop the hell out of them.
[End of diatribe. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...] - Larry Wall in Configure from the perl
#1: Your mechanic is full of shit. I believe current VAG dealer diagnostic tools analyze your year, and if the current ones don't, it's not like dealers just throw away older diagnotic tools.
r t DIY Fuel injection controller. There are a shipload of Audi's running this, and the mailing list is quite friendly
#2: http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/
Buy the diag tool yourself. Tell mechanic to get bent.
#3: 1989 Audi? Might not have OBD-I, and the engine controllers back then didn't have a bunch of diagnostics. Sounds like you may have a lazy mechanic who doesn't want to take the time to actually diagnose your problem instead of plugging in a connector and charging you $90.
#4: http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
Megasqui
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
Sounds like your trustworthy dealer is full of it. Go to any Advance, Super Trak, or Pep Boys (or NAPA, Mac, or Snap-On) and you should be able to find a universal reader, or a reader for your car. There's no reason your dealer can't do likewise. In addition, your local German car specialty shop should have several of these lying around.
Further, auto computers do only a few rudimentary things. Control spark advance and fuel delivery curves. I'd have to question why the dealer has mechanics who can't make a decent determination without relying on the crutch of the computer.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Make that "I'm willing to bet a good .."
As to the rest of your comments, whatever...
You haven't bought a brand new gas guzzling, oversized monstrosity of a SUV|Pickup|Minivan yet? How un-American of you not to support the American and Middle-Eastern oil-based economies by doing this! Shame on you!!
I too, have delt alot with older cars, and one of the more frustrating things ive noticed is that the Kelly Blue Book online service, cuts off the models of cars at anywhere around like 80-89 depending on the make and model. What occured to me is how easy it would be for another site to harvest the data off Kelly's before it gets removed as newer cars get added.. its just a thought but such a site would be very useful. Also ive noticed theres little infomation on alot of Cars in terms of Reverse Engineering and Hacking solutions for problems that perhaps for whatever reason the part required is eather not available or wayyy too expensive. I think creating a "Everything2" style site but for Reverse Engineering would be a much welcomed change on the web.
The problem is not in controlling the engine -- it's in reading the diagnostic codes from the controllers memory.
Twenty five years ago it was possible to tune an engine without reference to a computer. All you needed was an RPM meter, a timing light, and spark plug gap gauge to do a basic tune-up. No longer.
These days it's both easier and harder. You plug in a diagnostic computer and it tells you what needs to be adjusted and/or replaced, based on the codes it receives from the engine sensors. On the other hand, you need the diagnostic readouts or you can't really adjust anything properly.
In fact, there was as serious controversy over this a year or two ago whose outcome I don't recall. Manufacturers would not release the meanings of the full set of diagnostic codes to independent service stations, even if the service station had the correct computer to hook up to a car. (E.g., if the diagnostic code output is "ABC123", it means, "Replace the PCV valve.") Only a dealer would receive the full set of codes. As a result, indepenent garages were threatened with being put out of business, which the FTC and/or DOJ viewed as a possible anti-trust violation.
--Paul
If you are trying to be funny, try again.
How likely is it that a 15 year old Audi gets great mileage and has low emissions?
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
but don't dis da deenagers - dey be the ones doin the good talking these days, with skool and all, etc.
OBD was introduced in 1988, but I'm not sure when it became mandatory. (OBD II was adopted in '96). I know my 1989 car didn't have the standardized connector.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
No two engines are exactly alike; hell, no two cylinder heads flow exactly the same, and without being able to meter and adjust to the air flow you can't get the mixture right. If you don't have the mixture nearly spot-on (varying between lean and rich, to load the catalyst with oxygen and then burn it off) your pollution controls don't work worth a damn. And if your pollution controls don't work, our system of big cities filled with lots of vehicles suddenly becomes very, very hostile to human health and well-being (again).
Software-based controls are the antidote to manufacturing tolerances and wear. You can't build mechanical or even analog controls with the required complexity and get the necessary reliability. Computers are the patch for getting cars to the shop ("CHECK ENGINE") rather than having them just belch out tens or hundreds of times as much gunk as they ought to. You could perhaps find a way to build one all-mechanical engine that could operate within EPA limits, but it would cost a fortune and you might not be able to depend on it staying that way for even 5000 miles, let alone 50,000.
The auto companies once settled on a protocol system for talking to the car; they called it J-1850 (and there were individual corporate flavors thereof like any "standard" in the industry). This was required by the EPA so that any car could be tested with the same equipment for smog verification. But the EPA didn't require a common service protocol, so unless you can scare up an interface somewhere and a manual for interpreting the codes, you're up a creek without a paddle. Unless you can find an old phone book with names of shops servicing your brand of 10 years ago or so; a mechanic who's still in business might have one of the old testers gathering dust.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
For the average mechanic, knowing about carburetors or points is a complete waste of time. No car has rolled off a high-volume assembly line with either in years, and even the distributor is going the way of the dodo. If he wants a job he learns about the stuff that comes into the shop every day, not the only-driven-on-Sundays classic that goes past his house a few times a year.
I don't have a problem with cars that are only good for 15-20 years before they become effectively unmaintainable. Back in the 60's they were good for a heck of a lot less than that, and if two decades is the limit imposed by the need to keep the pollution controls and such effective, I'll take that tradeoff.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
It would be called planned obsolescence.
Someone hates these cans.
Just like software nowadays, the car is licensed to you, you do not buy it. And if the manufacturer declares an End Of Life on your car, you need to upgrade to a new car. You *could* go with open-source cars, as long as you choose which of the 16 available steering wheels you want, and build it yourself.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, consult.
> 1. Never trust mechanics
> 2. When someone tells me a certain mechanic can be trusted, refer to rule #1.
I'm a mechanic =(
I've owned several audis, including an '86 80 sport, a 1990 5cyl 100, and a 1995 S6. This guys website is full of useful stuff. He markets a kit for the palm pilot that should answer your needs Remember, far more energy is used, and more CO2 is produced in building a car than it will produce in its lifetime, so keeping old cars running is good for the environent!
nada guides cover older cars. I think kelly also has a printed guide for "vintage" models, but not on their website.
If you do need some pieces then either the local scrapheap or just look in the local newspaper for spares
R.
Cheap UK and US VPS
You can get aftermarket ECU's that are programable to fit whatever you have to stick them on.
Sure, they are a bit overkill for applications like that, but at least you DO have an option when your module goes belly-up...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
In my case, to get to the back 3 plugs ( V6 ) you have to pull the intake manafold off..
Fun fun... a day job for what should be 10 mins.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I know you were trying to be cute, but:
Http://www.kitcars.com
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Now about your comments: very few modern cars sold in the U.S. have a turbo 6. Saab, Audi, Porsche.... maybe a Mercedes w/the kompressor package. Can you ID any american cars with a turbo 6?, I know there are lots of turbo 4's and you can get a toyota/nissan/jaguar/ buick/chevy/pontiac/... with a supercharged v6. Oh, and yes, they're all fuel injected.
Recently, I wanted to buy an el-cheapo mp3-cd-player for my rather new (2 years) Toyota Corolla. I had to find out that none of the models available in standard size would fit in there, and that my only option would be go buy what Toyota offers. Too bad they don't have _any_ mp3 devices available. And if so, they would not be as cheap as the ones in stores here.
:(
Needless to say, I'm pretty annoyed by that.
- Hubert
It simple really, what will become of cars from today when they become classics. They simply won't.
You see, cars like the '57 Chevy or the '68 Camero were unique, they only made so may and the ones around today were lovingly restore or maticulously cared for so that they exsist today. But it's not just that, those cars were made to last. That's why you still see a '38 DeSoto or a '42 Dodge Pick-up. It's also why you can go to a junkyard, buy and old Impala or Oldsmobile and restore it. There's parts out there and you can repair what you can't find. But, as cars went on, and companies wanted larger proffit dividens, and then came plastics...
Nowdays cars aren't built to last, well, not last lifetimes. They're built to last until the payment book is done. Sure you have exceptions like Toyota Camary's or Honda Civic's that go on and on, but there's nothing unique to these cars. Their people movers, and that's it. I for one can't really imagine taking my kid, on a warm spring day, to an autoshow just to see a bunch of '92 - '96 Tercels or '87 - '91 Sentras.
Then there's the plastics I mentioned. My last car was a '94 Chevy Cavlaier Wagon. It was mostly the same car as the '81 Chevy Celebrity, or the Oldsmobile Ferenza, or the Pontica Sunfire / J2000, or the Cadillac Cimmaron, or the Buick Skylark / Century. All of which had a nearly 15 year stint known as the General Motor's J-Body design. But it's not just GM. The Ford Taurus is the Mercury Sable, or the Ford Crown Victoria is the same as the Mercury Grand Marquee or something like that... It's not just American cars though, the Pontiac Vibe is also the same car as the Toyota Matrix... Which was the retool from the wagon variance of, you guessed it, the GM J-Body. The only diffrence between these cars is a plastic molded bummper or body panel. Strip away that and you have the same 2.2l I4 engine mounted to the same H3430 3 speed automatic front wheel drive system with front disc brake and optional rear wheel discs...
But it goes beyond that, the materials used now days aren't even designed to last that long. A friend of mine has restored a 1985 Buick LeSabre. (GM H Body I believe, same thing as the Chevy Capris Classic for those keeping score.) A problem arose from when his coolant resevoir cracked and he had to replace it. General Motors changed the design to the resivoir in 1988 to make way for a redesign of the cruise control vacume system. So the part, even as a replacment part, was discontinued in 1991. The part itself was made of a sub-quality plastic that, after about 15 years becomes hard and brittle. So you can't go to a junkyard and buy another one off another Buick as, it too, will crack and brake. In the end, his only option was to use ducktape until the whole of the container rots and he has to make another container all together.
I know I have harped on American cars alot, and I really do love them, but even the author's AUDI is not unique. Audi has for years traded engine and body parts and techniques with Volkswagon, so much so that alot of Audi's now have VW W8 engines, while VW itself builds three of it's cars on the same chassi. The Passat, New Bettle, and Jetta are, when you trear them down, all the same car...
Oh well... Hopefully tennagers won't get ahold of too many Malibus or Impalas (the old ones, not this new crap) and enough will be spared 22" wheels and hydrolics that they will still be drivable in 20 years so that when I take my kid to a car show one day I can show them that, damnit, their used to be some nice cars. Some style that wasn't just an option package, that steel was fashioned into moving elegance, and cars of this caliber should not be messed with aside from the factory design, and that one time long ago, it was just wrong for Cadillac to make a pick-up.
Man, for the days when you could do that job in 10 mins with a single wrench.. from a standing position, and not even get dirty... now you cant even SEE 1/2 the belts.. and takes an act of god to change a o2 sensor...
I hear newer versions have the battery only accessible thru the wheel-well.. have to take off the tire to get to it.. sheesh ( I know the neons do that.. donno about my model thou, as they made it smaller, and I wont buy a new one )
I think my next car will be a 1970... or ill just get out my torch and build my own
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The diagnostic tools are still available. The code information should be in one of the service manuals. Worst case: 1.) I'm sure someone on the web has decoded the interface (hacked it anyway) and has a solution. 2.) There are aftermarket "generic" computers that could replace the your system.
The hardware in my truck uses a series of tubes and plugs with close-tolerance calibrated holes to control the fuel mixture. The ignition timing is set by turning an object (distributor) like a dial. It's becoming harder to find someone who knows how to work on the carburetors -- even the old guys have forgotten most of what they knew over the past two decades. Yet, it's still workable. You just have to know who to talk to and where to look for parts.
My 20 year old truck has a freshly rebuilt motor in it, is well tuned, and gets the same mileage as a new truck. Yet, when I roll into the dealership (to buy a part) they harass me with the "So, when are you going to scrap that old piece of junk" line. Why should I change?
Dear Slashdot...
My old Pentium 133mhz computer had some problems. I took it to a repair shop, but they said it was too old to work on and that nobody knew windows 95 anymore. What should I do?
Find a better repair shop!
Seriously, cars in the late 70's had primitive computer systems[1] - when something fails, you go to a mechanic that knows how to fix it. The electronics are pretty durable, so even if the part can't be bought new, something ripped from a junked vehicle should work. (I saw another post that mentioned 3rd party control systems that can be made to work with a variety of vehicles, this could be another choice.)
As for diagnostic machines, the US vehicles from the time had the ability to ground a pin and read the codes from a blinking idiot light. The mechanic only needs to have the books to look up the trouble codes.
*sigh* Seriously, slashdot, this is a piss poor question. Learn a bit about cars, then ask intelligent questions.
[1] Primative computer systems, but still technically computer systems.
"but since there was a ton of space in front of the engine, where a part that will fail several times in the lifetime of the car could have been mounted, it really pissed me off."
The front of the engine is considered a lot more hostile than the back, and they moved the coils from the front to the back quite a long time ago because of the temperature shock (radiators and blowy stuff I like to call 'wind') and the occasional puddle that gets thrown up.
The time I learned all about this was when my Ford Fiesta (UK Car. Small, feisty, can be repaired by the roadside with a hammer) decided to stop doing the internal combustion thing in the middle of a 6' deep lake masquerading as a puddle. The coil was saturated because it was mounted low in front of the radiator.
If you think the location of the coil is bad, go check your starter motor (now with crunchy plastic vanes) or the water pump.
Oddly Draconis
Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
I believe that the EPA requires that cars sold in the US have a manual method of reading codes. On Hondas you push and hold some combination of buttons, and it blinks a sequence on the idiot lights that you can record and look up in a book.
You can reset the codes by pulling the "memory" fuse for a few seconds (but have your CD player security code handy!)
Haynes service manuals are pretty good at telling you how to do stuff like this without expensive equipment.
"or ill just get out my torch and build my own"
:
Smog laws make this no longer an option. Here's an anecdotal story that my pa told me (it's hearsay, so if someone can verify this, it'd be great)
He had gotten an after-market replacement carburator on his vehicle, an on the box it made a claim about being calif. smog approved.
So he installs it and takes it in to get passed. They wouldn't even test it - the mechanic tells him that that caburetor hasn't been approved by the state for THAT year of that car.
'Well, can't you go ahead and hook up your sensor to the tailpipe and approve it if it passes?'
'Nope. To approve a particular configuration, manufacturers pay the state tens of thousands of dollars and the state puts the vehicle in an airtight room and tests for a lot more things than your everyday smog-test center.'
Turned out that smog-test centers can't pass anything that hasn't had the state's OK.
VAG-COM works with the older Audis going back to about 1989 or so. You need a special Y adapter to adapt the ODB-II style plug; if you have the plugs, they're two or three multicolored, 2-pin connectors, usually in the driver's side footwell or in the fusebox. 1991 was the first year in which fault codes could be stored in memory, so if your model is before that, you'll need to leave the engine running or crank it to 'generate' a code.
If your Audi is pre-1990 or so(you said 14 years yes?), run the car until the check light comes on or you see the problem; remove a spare fuse, plug the fuse into the top of the fuel pump relay for about 5 seconds and remove; the check engine light(engine block w/lightning bolt) will come on and blink a code of 4 digits, with a short pause between the digits; this will report all the codes and then repeat. Look up the codes at www.sjmautotechnik.com. Really really old Audis will either bounce the tachometer, or point it to different numbers in sequence to indicate the code.
If the problem is a no-start, you should attempt to crank the engine for 15 seconds, LEAVE the ignition ON, and then do the code retrieval.
You can also trigger an output test, which activates all the various eleectronic valves(there are many) in sequence.
If you still need more help, sign on to the 'quattro' list at www.audifans.com- but do so in a few days, the site admin had a death in the family right after we had some data loss, and things are pretty messed up unfortunately; you can't post, and archives are missing. We'll be running within a week. Google has a fair bit of our 10+ years of archives in its cache, however.
Please help metamoderate.
Oh, I forgot- not only VAG-COM, but any diagnostic tool based on the VAG-155x series(I forget what the current model is, but the earliest model is the VAG-1551), which is as close as your nearest Audi OR VW dealer, will work. The dealership should have the necessary Y adapter since it's about $15-20, but may not if they're somewhat new and never had to deal with pre-ODB-II cars.
Please help metamoderate.
I think the worst problem you will actually encounter if asking a company to open its sources is the same as you see with M$. Why does M$ keeps launching the same programs just with a better look and just one or two really useful features? And why do they need an OS that does the same? And why do they stop supporting their old software? Because that's where they get their money from. Imagine you were a car company that wants to make money from every client you can. Then what would you do? Would you make durable cars that can be easily repaired by anyone? No, you would make cars that can break just after the warranty expires and ask an exorbitant price for diagnosing the problem with your proprietary software. Then you would make it so only your authorized car repair shops have your software. That would also increase the cost of repairing. Doing that will also make people with money to just sell their used cars to get rid of the problem of repairing and buy a new one (maybe from you). Welcome to the ways of Capitalism!
It's a 77 VW bus. I've been told that the FI on air-cooled VWs is a bunch of transistors/resistors rather than an integrated circuit, so there is a company which will repair broken computers by replacing the bad parts. Since the individual pieces can be relatively easily identified, the "source" is openly available. However - my car is much roomier than an SUV, very dependable, only gets 20-24 MPH, and has a bed for use on those late nights at work but those are the sacrifices one makes when one owns a vehicle with oodles of spare parts available for (probably) decades to come. Of course, since the model is still one of the most popular models of new cars in Brazil I suppose it's actually a modern car and doesn't belong in a thread about classic cars...
As to the rest of your comments, whatever...
Oh, I get it. Valley Girl. Gotcha
PS WTF is a smoondog?
Get back to basics. It's no big deal. Let's do it.
...it's firmware, not software. :) I know.
-1, Pedantic.
Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005
There is a company called AEM That makes somethign called the EMS (Engine Management System)
It's a $2000 drop-in ECU. With completel computer control and datalogging. A geeks dream!
The thing is, t doesn't take much to control a car. Some PWM inputs and outputs, some flash, some ROM. Add some DACs and you have all the hardware you need. The EMS uses a 16/32 hybrid microcontroller. Nothing much. You basically have to adjust the PWN for fuel on throttle position and intake air volume, and throw a spark when needed. The rest is just window/heater controls.
The EMS also has fly-by-wire throttle control, automated launch, and everything imaginable.
I'm surprised there's not an opensource project already.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Hey, if you are up to it, you can build your own fuel and ignition management system. I am going to do this myself with my 65 barracuda. Here is link http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html Let me know what you think!
> 1. Never trust mechanics
> 2. When someone tells me a certain mechanic can be trusted, refer to rule #1.
I'm a mechanic =(
I don't believe you...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Isn't that what all you yanks do?
Sure...you have to invade a few Middle Eastern countries but what is a few body bags between friends.
...archiving data to CDs solves everything, does it? Including software that requires proprietary hardware and OS that will not be available in a few years? Archival strategy doesn't just mean burn it to the latest backup medium and hope for the best.
If a shop says they can't fix it, it's because they don't want to spend the time and effort to diagnose the problem. Most EFI cars before the mid 1990s used OBD1 which is pretty fairly basic, but pretty easy to work with. I even swapped a turbo EFI motor from a Merkur into a Pinto without too much trouble(www.nothingtodo.org) The big three all had simple ways to access the trouble codes or you can get a code scanner. From my experience, it's usually sensors or wiring issues that cause problems, and rarely the engine management computer itself. New vehicles use this OBDII which is more advanced, but really out of read for servicing by a layman though. Best bet is to read up on the particular EFI system your car uses and get familiar with how it works so you can understand the operation and figure out the source of the problem.
-- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
Phrases like "Anywho, I've heard stories of people sucessfully plugging their generic laptops into their car's computer and getting some useful data out of it. Unfortunately I don't have any sources :( (If I find some I'll let you know!)" just make me glad I took the time to read it.
The format may be open and published, but that doesn't mean that you'll be able to build an optical drive that'll read your media in the future any more than you could hook a wax cylinder of data up to your SAN now.
Archiving *isn't* simple. Incidentally, paper's not bad as a long-term storage solution. Archival quality media and an environmentally controlled storage area means you can get hundreds of years out of paper and YOU DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT BEING ABLE TO READ IT for the forseeable.