DIY Cruise Missile Grounded

PSaltyDS writes "The DIY Cruise Missile project from New Zealand has been previously covered on /., but the BBC now reports that Bruce Simpson has been forced to shutdown by his government. His project web site says 'The New Zealand government has moved aggressively to shut down this project -- and by using quite unscrupulous methods which appear to be in breach of the law.'"

Comments

Always pay your taxes!

[RobertB-DC]

"The authorities here finally decided to bankrupt me over a tax debt and I have now had to give the missile to a friend for safe keeping."

You would think that people would learn. If you're going to skirt the edge of the legal system, always pay your taxes!

Remember, Al Capone was jailed for tax evasion, not organized criminal activity. His claim that "The government can't collect legal taxes from illegal money." (1) held no more water than Simpson's claim that the government is trying to "bankrupt" him.

And speaking of Simpsons...

Lisa: Bart. Bart! What are you doing? We've got to get out of here.
Bart: Target sighted. Launching air-to-nerd missile!
[launches a missile model, hitting Lisa]
Lisa: Owww!
- Sideshow Bob's Last Gleaming

Re:Always pay your taxes!

[Jason Earl]

Is is just me or does anyone else think that it is funny that this guy honestly thought that the government of New Zealand wouldn't have a problem with him building a cruise missile?

No wonder the government folks said that he could export his creation to Iran, my guess is that they thought he was completely crazy. They probably called the folks with the jackets that zip up in the back and the oversized butterfly nets the second the guy walked out of the office. It's never a good idea to rile up crazy people.

Do all measurements in hexadecimal.

[Thinkit3]

If you did all numbers in hexadecimal (but still using SI), they wouldn't understand it enough to ban it. They'd probably just laugh at you and say only the decimal radix would work.

Star Wars

[AKAImBatman]

While I realize that some of the Star Wars technology was Pie in The Sky stuff meant to scare the USSR, I really think we should complete it. Trying to stop missile launches or radioactive materials from getting into the hands of terrorists can't be done without stepping over people's rights. (Generally considered a BAD thing by the US Constitution.)

Now if we had particle lasers in the sky that could track consumer planes and shoot down threatening bogeys, we'd have a much better defense than hoping the pilot sees the weapon and executes a barrel roll (haha).

This would also allow us to shoot down friendlies that go rouge. (e.g. 9/11 plane attacks)

Re:Star Wars

[Peyna]

Of course, there is also the possibility that in like most air hijackings, that the plane would have safely landed somewhere with even fewer casualties. This is why not much was done on September 11th, we expected the terrorists to behave nicely or fly somewhere else, not to crash the planes into buildings.

Re:Star Wars

[El]

Star Wars only protects against ICBMs. Anybody that has the capacity to lauch ICBMs won't, because it would be obvious where they come from, and they fear retaliation. The real threat is from low-flying vehicles, not ICBMs. Drones, cruise missles, RC planes, even Cessna 180s could be used to deliver a payload -- and the "missile defense sheild" wouldn't help at all. We don't need to protect ourselves from weapon systems flying 10 miles up -- we need to protect ourselves from weapon systems flying 10 feet over the waves.

Re:Some discussions of the project and its shutdow

[jeeves99]

Yeah, and a home-brewed tactical nuke has legitimate uses as an excavation tool. Just because you can find an obscure use for a tool that has a prominent list of evil uses doesn't mean the tool should be released to the public.

a terrorist can create a weapon

[MutantEnemy]

From the BBC site:

he believes he has proved his point - "that by using off-the-shelf technology in a suburban garage a terrorist can create a weapon against which there is no effective defence.

One would think a simple hand-delivered bomb would suffice.

Interesting...

[fputs(shit, slashdot]

This guy may be nuts but a remote control car rigged to a interweb-connected PDA full of C4 could do serious damage. No really need for jet engines. War on terror is doomed when technology is availiable on highstreet! Ashcroft to close electronic retail outlets in name of freedom?

Request new moderation type

[Anonymous Coward]

-2, Idiot

You don't need a real cruise missile...

[herrvinny]

However, there have also been a number of people who claim I'm overstating the case and that it's not possible to build a real cruise missile without access to sophisticated gear, specialist tools and information not readily available outside the military.

You don't need a *real* cruise missile, you just need a model aircraft. In fact, I've been thinking about getting one (not to build a missile, of course, but just to play with). There are even ones with gas turbines. Hell, do you really need a lot of explosives to terrorize someone/some group? You could even just load a model aircraft up with some colored gas, dump it over a group of people, and probably someone would get trampled to death in the rush to escape. I'm not a chemist, but I'm sure there's a heavier than air colored gas that's nonlethal that can be easily obtained. Even a model helicopter would be fine.

Before Donning Tinfoil Hats

[onyxruby]

Before donning tinfoil hats here, remember that all governments like to get paid. Whilst what he was doing had very high hack value, it certainly wasn't cheap. When their local tax people saw that he was prominently spending money on a world famous endeavour rather than paying his back taxes, they acted. No conspiracy here folks, just a tax authority doing what tax authorities worldwide do on a daily basis. That being said, I watched his project with high interest.

Re:Some discussions of the project and its shutdow

[CoreDump]

Opening a can of worms and kissing my ass^Wkarma goodbye:

You mean like 'guns'? Oh, but those are self-defense tools. Right. Let's take the NRA stance 'Homebuilt Cruise Missles don't kill people, people with homebuilt cruise missles kill people!'. Guns exist to kill/maim/destroy things ( be they other people, animals, or else ). Should they be likewise prohibited from possesion? ( Note there is a distinction between having the plans for how a gun works and possessing a gun ).

Goddamn imperialists

[Anonymous Coward]

New Zealand government forced him to shut down his project after coming under pressure from the United States

Not to cast any aspersions on American readers, but WTF did this have to do with the US? Such attempts to police the entire world are virtually guaranteed to incite further hatred. Better tell Taiwan to stop making box cutters, too...

-- "We have a number of things that are weak links in the security picture." -- Bill Gates, 2003

He'd already made his point

[sjhwilkes]

That if a privateer can build a cruise missile then all the billions the US is spending on Anti ICBM technology is money down the drain.

If either terrorists or a foreign power want the strike the US then holing up in the Ozarks and building a cruise missile out of a combination of publically available and smuggled components seems a pretty plausible way to do it.

I'm sorry to say it because I don't have a solution either, but making us take off our shoes at the airport etc. is an utter waste of time - terrorism is way too easy, just look at Iraq currently with GI checkpoints and patrols everywhere, even martial law doesn't fix the problem.

Politics is the only answer, coming up with some final solutions in the middle east...

Not really a cruise missile

[tonyr60]

Bruce has put together a specification and built some bits for a device that could theoretically fly some distance in a controlled manner.

But a device to cruise some distance carrying enough ordanance to make a difference at point of impact it is not.

A pickup full of diesel and fertiliser would pose much more of a risk to the Govt of NZ and such a device is legal here, as long as intent to do harm is absent.

Re:Not really a cruise missile

[child_of_mercy]

a light aircraft's auto pilot a GPS system and a weekends tinkering would get you something darn close to a cruise missile without all this fuss.

Re:Not really a cruise missile

[homer_ca]

Yes, a good old fashioned suicide bombing would be simpler and more effective at doing damage. The big advantage of guided missiles is the ability to do damage from a safe distance- not a priority for a martyr. However the novelty of the attack and the resulting publicity and notoriety might be reason enough for someone to try it.

Re:Not really a cruise missile

[Jason Earl]

Yes, he was giving out "instructions" for how to build a guided missile for under $5000.

Then the government came along and pressed him for back taxes. If you screw your tinfoil hat on tight enough its possible to even see this as a direct effect of his missile experiments and not just the government tracking down back taxes.

My point wasn't that his actions were illegal, just that they weren't particularly wise. It is never a good idea to draw government attention to yourself, and talking to government employees about exporting jet engines to Iran raises about as many governmental flags as you could possibly raise. Like the original author stated, if you are going to skirt the edges of legality, pay your taxes.

Re:Not really a cruise missile

[sillybilly]

Right, the intent to harm is that counts, not any kind of device. No matter how hard you try, there will always be ways to do harm - for instance, they might be banning plastic knives from air flights in the US, but then people can kill with their fingers and hands - are fingers going to be banned? Also kitchen knives and cars can be used for many purposes, same with compressed gas cylinders. What really matters is trying to control intent.
On the other hand a cruise missile is a very dangerous thing, with very little positive uses, besides entertainment. Just like radio amateurs need a license to broadcast, just to make sure they are skilled enough to not pollute some emergency frequency and put people's lives at danger, and just like car drivers need driver licenses, to make sure they do no harm to the rest of the public - the only conceivable way to allow people to practice this cruise missile building hobby is by making sure they know what they are doing and they can control the destination of their rockets. Saying "oops, I didn't mean that" doesn't work in this case. Now controlling rocket destinations is a very hard thing - even the heat seaking, laser quided, top of the tech missiles used by the US military miss their target quite a lot, and hit some hospital or apartment building. You pretty much can't practice this as a safe hobby, unless you live out in the woods, with 100 square miles of land that you own, and making sure your rocket doesn't have enough fuel to get out. But oh, you can play that already, as long as you don't tell anyone about it. Teaching the idiots how to do it, so anyone with an agenda - without the delight of constructing something as a hobby - can cook it up in a weekend and exact revenge somewhere well, that's not a very good idea. If you find passion in the challenge of constructing something that works, well go ahead, and don't tell anyone about it. When you're told all the details, that kinda loses the whole point, and being told the details only helps people with bad intent.

Re:Not really a cruise missile

[child_of_mercy]

it's the accuracy that makes a good cruise missile better than a bad one.

If they were talking about "building a tomohawk missile" then you'd have a point.

but just "build a cruise missile" is much easier.

From the wikipedia: "A cruise missile is a guided missile which uses a lifting wing..."

Everything else is determining the quality of your missile, not its nature.

Re:Not really a cruise missile

[http]

Counter theory:
Governments the world over(though not all) are in the habit of NOT going after people who owe less than it costs to collect. Think about it - how long would it take how may government clerks to prepare the case to be looked at by government lawyers? Then, how long would the lawyers have to spend proving the case before a judge? $%000 doesn't buy a lot of time... And if it turns out they are wrong, the government has just spent a lot of money for nothing. I am given to understand that Roger's despo^W administration put an end to wasteage. With no financial incentive to after him, the next most likely scenario is that they targeted Simpson for political reasons.
Do I still need a tin foil hat? Feel free to correct logic flaws or add details if you've got them. The more facts we have to yell at each other, the funnier this will be (apologies to teela brown).

Re:Not really a cruise missile

[bkr1_2k]

First, anyone planning to launch a DIY cruise missile isn't going to care about being "allowed in the sky". By the time anyone has time to say no, the deed is done.
Second, with the right pre-planning, it's not difficult to program target coordinates and never need radio contact after launch. Just upload target coordinates and your guidance system adjusts based on current GPS location. The biggest issue with using GPS is speed. Some GPS units are better than others, but I don't know of any civilian units that will be accurate at the high speeds required for an effective cruise missile. (There may be some, but I have limited experience with GPS units.) I also don't know for sure if GPS units have unique IDs that can be used to track ownership after the fact, but as an essentially passive receiver, there is no real way to track it during usage. No warning available from that source. Assuming you can update position accurately using a civilian GPS unit, the target's most likely warning would be hearing the missile fly over, but then it's too late.

Even in areas where military units are on full alert, it will take at least 90 seconds to launch aircraft to mount a defense. That is 'After' the missile's presence is detected. How long does it take to travel 100 miles at mach 0.8? (Just an estimate of speed...I have no idea if this is a feasible number for a "homemade" pulse jet engine.) If you happen to have anti-aircraft units based on the ground in the respective target zone, you've got a much better chance of shooting the missile down, but you still have minimal warning, especially if the missile maintains a low altitude, which is also not very difficult using a "passive" GPS device.

bkr

Good. One Less Loon To Worry About

[reallocate]

Tech point: How autonomous is this thing? What's the guidance system? Where did this guy get his maps and images? Or, did he?

Political point: On his web site he says he won't try to understand how politicians think. If he can't be bothered to understand why politicians want to eliminate independent sources of military weapons, he needs tocheck his grip on reality.

He sounds like one more presumptious and arrogant loon who thinks his moral dilletantism is reason to put others at risk. Good for NZ.

Re:I was born post-Reagan

[bertybassett]

M-ultiple
I-ndependently targettable
R-eentry
V-ehicle

MIRVs are a sort of ice-cream cone with bubble gum at the bottom (or are they strawberry mivvies??)

Could this have been an elaborate hoax?

[jfroebe]

Hi,

I'm sorry but I have trouble believing that the DIY cruise missle actually existed other than as a mock-up.

Let me put it another way:

1) person X says I can build a device
2) person X builds website showing progress of the device
3) person X says he is going to receive big bucks from a company
4) person X says government stopped development and device is SOMEWHERE in country but doesn't know or can't say where

hmmm... maybe he did build the missile and maybe he didn't.

Jason L. Froebe

Re:Some discussions of the project and its shutdow

[Peyna]

A short list of items that people use to kill people that should be banned to prevent more deaths:

Guns, knives, hands, arms, pens, tire irons, vehicles, clubs, hammers, poison, explosives, fire, drugs, rope, nylons, anything that is heavy and easily wielded, anything that is sharp enough to penetrate the skin, water (used for drowning), etc.

Interestingly enough, firearms are only used in about 60% of murders. Take away guns or other weapons and people will still find ways to kill people they're real mad at. It's been happening since long before guns were around. How many serial killers use guns?

He got shut down for foolishness

[Clinoti]

He got shut down not because he could have done it or whether it would have worked or not, but because it reveals the basic anomaly that despite the highest levels of security and defense the lowest (budget) and innovate disruptive technology will continually defeat it. Just like a high level security lab that has the back door jammed open with a pencil because the night crew has to smoke outside.

Revealing the fragile state of most secure states in this day and age is not only an unwise idea, but a foolish one to broadcast to the world.

Re:He got shut down for foolishness

[malkavian]

Odd you say that. Very odd.
In essence, what you're saying is "Lie to me. Make me happy, keep me in ignorance of any danger I may be in. Just let me feel safe."
If you read the article, you'd know that this came about because a lot of (ill informed, but opinionated) people (who'd been told "You're safe. Be happy.") said "You can't build a cruise missile at home".
In the arguments, he said "Yes I can.". They said, in time honoured fashion, "Prove it!".
So he did.
Now people who previously didn't know the truth, do in fact know. Many politicians who had no clue this was possible, or an issue now know.
If they're doing their job right, they should now be looking into ways of tightening up security on parts availability, or end user vetting, or some such. By saying 'Some such', I acknowledge I don't have the answer. But at least I have the question, and that's the place all answers start from.
Personally, I would say that it's a very foolish thing to state that the truth shouldn't be presented for analysis in this day of institutional misinformation and misdirection.
Note also, that he kept his government informed of his project, but they neglected to do anything about it until he presented a request for space for testing safely, and a US politician mentioned in an official statement that the project was "unhelpful".
If you honestly don't believe that those who wish to do damage haven't thought of this, or aren't able to do this already.. Then perhaps you've listened to a few too many ill informed people telling you 'You're safe'.

Re:Right to bear arms

[Detritus]

Even in the United States, there are laws and regulations about this sort of thing. The BATF can nail you for building a "destructive device" without a license. Purchasing, storing and using explosives involves federal and state licenses. You need a federal export license to transfer missiles, missile components, or technical data about missiles to a foreign country or foreign national.

Already done...

[krbvroc1]

http://tam.plannet21.com/ - a site that documents a flight across the atlantic of a model airplane using GPS. Just change model airplane to a metal cylinder.

Re:Some discussions of the project and its shutdow

[brettper]

Interestingly enough, firearms are only used in about 60% of murders.

You do realise that's more than half. As in most people who are murdered are killed using a gun

How many serial killers use guns?
So what? How mamy people are killed by serial killers?

Re:Open source military hardware?

[Angst Badger]

Open source flying cylinder of death == bad

Oh right, and those closed source flying cylinders of death are a real bouqet of roses, too.

Re:You could say....

[R2.0]

Not really...

Military cruise missile: a precision weapon to get a large explosive (500#, I think), onto a small target so as to maximize target damage and minimize collateral damage.

Terrorist cruise missile: a crude weapon to get an indeterminate payload (chemical, biological, radiological) to a target with minimal accuracy required. There is no distinction between target damage and collateral damage; in effect, the collateral IS the target.

Re:Export cruise missle technology to Iran?

[NewtonsLaw]

but then he gets permission to export his
technology to Iran? I suppose it's debatable if
Iran=Terrorism, but what he says and what he does doesn't match apparently

If you read my columns you'd have seen that I was gobsmacked that the NZ government would endorse the export of military technology to Iran, and as a result, I went straight to the NZ Secret Service for a second opinion. It's also worth noting that although they said "it wasn't a good idea" they didn't say I couldn't have -- and to this day, the advice I received from teh NZ government has not been rescinded.

I never had any intention of exporting (and never had) any of my work to countries that are considered a "sponsor of terrorism". The only reason I made the enquiry was because I was interested to find out the government's stance on such things.

now that's flamebait.

[twitter]

Yeah, and a home-brewed tactical nuke has legitimate uses as an excavation tool. Just because you can find an obscure use for a tool that has a prominent list of evil uses doesn't mean the tool should be released to the public.

Wow, that's pig headed and ignorant. It's so bad I suspect you did it on purpose just to piss people off. Your whole premis and understanding are backward - one evil use prevents much good use.

First, you can indeed use small nuclear devices for excavation. Look up the plowshears project from the US govenment. That kind of excavation would save billions of dollars and thousands of lives when used for ordinary construction of canals. More importantly, such cost savings would make lots of nice projects possible, like harbor construction is solid stone.

Second, it's not a particular configuration of special nuclear materials that's against the law, it's the possesion of them without license.

Good cause has been shown for the control of these materails, but the control has overriden many legitimate uses. The bottom line is that materials that have one or two significant evil uses have been controled and that prevents hundreds of very good uses. We are restricted to fewer harbors and less energy production. The poor energy production makes all manner of industry more difficult. This is a shame.

Shooting the Messenger

[femto]

So what is the motivation for stringing Mr. Simpson up? Taxes or 'terrorism' (aka being a squeaky wheel)? Maybe it was taxes, but I notice that the BBC uses the phrase:

New Zealand officials have said they cannot comment for reasons of "secrecy".

An interesting turn of phrase for an agency which has a reputation for accuracy. Normally tax details are protected for reasons of confidentiality, and 'national security' (aka lots of things) is protected for reasons of secrecy. So is the BBC saying 'national security' (aka war on terror) is behind things? Either way, surrounding "secrecy" with quotes seems to be a form of 'nudge-nudge-wink-wink'.

</tinfoil hat>

So what are the implications for other geeks?

Apart from his taxes, Mr. Simpson appears to have done no wrong. Indeed, reading his discussion forum, he appears to have bent over backwards to do nothing underhanded, break no laws and keep everyone (including government) informed of what he is doing. Given the media coverage of the project, it would be difficult to claim Mr. Simpson was hiding his actions.

I would compare Mr. Simpson to crypto researchers, P2P software authors and security researchers. Why? Because his work has both 'black hat'and 'white hat' uses, lends itself admirably to beng a political football and demonstrates glaring weaknesses in existing systems. If Mr. Simpson goes down without a fight, will it encourage governments to move against the other areas mentioned above?

*If* Mr. Simpson is going down due to his missile work, and not for taxes, shouldn't the geek community chip in and help him? (He has a paypal account, under the name 'paypal@aardvark.co.nz', to offset the costs of a news site he runs. There is also a 'make a donation' link to PayPal from the news site.) I would think he would be at least as deserving as the college students who have attracted public funding for their court cases over downloading copyrighted music.

No, I'm not affiliated with Mr. Simpson. I also don't pretent that Mr Simpson is some sort of an angel. It's just that the facts seem so damned hard to find in this case. Here are a few possible scenarios:

• Mr. Simpson is being screwed in the name of the 'war on terror' for pointing out how vunerable we are to unmanned vehicles.
• Mr. Simpson didn't pay his taxes and that is all there is to it.
• Mr. Simpson could see a tax bill coming and started a the cruise missile project in an attempt to make himself untouchable

Personally, I dismiss the last possibility, but don't have enough information to decide between the first two. If it turns out to be the first possibility, that scares the shit out of me and, in the name of democracy, Mr. Simpson would deserve all the support anyone can give him.

Re:Full, first hand story

[Mike Hawk]

I have no evidence to disbelieve all that you say, but I do have a couple questions about the choice of some of your phrasing...

Decline a grant of $36K in taxpayer's money that was offered to assist with my jet-engine development work -- I figured that those waiting for medical treatment or expecting a decent education could use the money more than me.

This jumped out at me right away as an appeal to pity/spin attempt/I don't know what. I question your true motivation for not accepting the money. 36k devided amongst the many school children in your nation surely would not go very far per student. A few pencils each maybe? Perhaps a computer lab for one school? It would seem to me that the real reason you would refuse government money is to prevent them from having any control of your project. Now I'm not saying anything is wrong with that, having complete control over one's own project is certainly desirable to any inventor/scientist/creator but if you seeked to hide this point, I have to wonder why, and to question your motivation in general because of it. Take it with a grain of salt if I'm way off, but do consider this is how it appears to the skeptical reader.

I also don't see how it is embarrassing to any government if an individual builds a missile. If you are invoking the terrorist implications, I would not fear this new device any more than a moving truck. Trucks have been shown to be quite effective when filled with the correct materials and parked in a suitable position for destruction. What, exactly, is embarrassing? No, I suspect there is other motivation for them going after your project. I would be willing to listen to any other theories you or anyone else has. The fact that you were doing it with permission? I don't understand.

And finally, as far as not knowing where the missile is, is that really the most responsible way to handle the situation? Wouldn't it be better to destroy the device? I have to assume plans still exist and a new missile could be easily constructed when conditions change for you, though the article indicates that is not your goal. But then if that is not your goal, why do you need this one any further? Your stated point seems proven. Not knowing where it is also does not instill in me the notion that you are doing whats right for "everyone". Perhaps this is just another bad PR move on your part, but this doesn't really add up to me the way it seems to for you. This is a potential weapon we are talking about, not a stash of cocaine.

At any rate, I appreciate your comments and if you choose to respond I hope you can see past what looks like personal attacks but is really just a skeptical view of your post and shed further light on the situation.

Excellent

[NDPTAL85]

Its good to see that our Anglo Subsidiary, New Zealand Corp is complying with the laws and regulations of its parent company, USCorp.

Re:Darn!

[Gherald]

how does a UID 7000 post something so retarded?

Re:Hey! I'll have you know that ...

[Kirth]

Yea. Actually only criminals have cruise missiles right now. Apart from that one guy in NZ maybe.
--

Well, yes

[Nailer]

does anyone else think that it is funny that this guy honestly thought that the government of New Zealand wouldn't have a problem with him building a cruise missile?

I don't. New Zealand is ostensibly a democracy that offers its citizens a reasonable degree of freedom

Then again, so is the US. So I see your point.

Re:Well, yes

[yog]

Someone decides that a remotely-triggered bomb can be built quite cheaply from off-the-shelf parts. He figures out how to do it, tests it on a small scale, then publishes a web page on how to do it, entitled "Do It Yourself People Destroyer". On this web page he not only lists how to combine easily available substances like fertilizer and batteries into an explosive large enough to destroy a large building like a church, but he also provides the schematics for the remote control device used to detonate the thing from afar.

How should the government react, once this web site becomes known? Here's my guess on what would happen in various places around the world:

The government of China arrests the man, shuts down the web site and shuts down the ISP while they're at it. They try him of incitement to murder or some such thing. He gets executed three weeks later.

The government of Israel arrests the man on some anti-terrorism charge. A year or two later he gets out and gets beaten to death by relatives of suicide bombing victims.

The government of the U.S. threatens his ISP, who shuts down his website; he starts it up elsewhere and this is repeated. Eventually the FBI arrests him on some Patriot Act basis. He sues the government over First Amendment issues and it goes to the Supreme Court. Or else, if he owes back taxes like that deadbeat in New Zealand, he gets in trouble for that, and can't afford to sue.

The government of Germany arrests him for publishing dangerous information.

The government of Russia arrests him on anti-terrorism charges, suspects him of being allied with Chechnya rebels, and locks him away for 20 years.

Just some food for thought. What would you do, just trust people not to build the damn thing? I'm torn, myself, but I think I would not want to lower the bar to the extent that every sicko out there can pretty easily go into the mass people killing business.

Re:Some discussions of the project and its shutdow

[the_mad_poster]

Interestingly enough, firearms are only used in about 60% of murders.

Ummm... not that I want to get into the middle of a pro/anti gun debate because it's offtopic and pointless, but that struck me as a really odd piece of support to put up so I have to comment on it.

You listed 18 different potentially fatal weapons, yet only 1 of them (which comprises 5.5% of the list) accounts for 60% of the fatalities? What point are you arguing, exactly?

He scammed the media, and now is scamming you.

[GISGEOLOGYGEEK]

Theres a big difference between making a jet powered go kart (which a great many have done), and making an autonomous machine with the brains to keep it self not only flying, but flying to a specific target.

Look at his website, only 3 of the 15 or so pages that document the project actually link to anything even though the project is basicaly done, and those three show nothing of any substance except that more will be uploaded 'in a few days'.

He doesnt even show any hint that he has any understanding of aeodynamics and design and control of flight surfaces.

He just happens to know how to bolt a mini jet engine to a go-kart. Thats it. The engine he claims he is designing is just as much a scam! Posters on his forums point out how his engine looks exactly like the off the shelf engines anyone can buy!

I call shenanigans! The subscribers and donators to his project and all of you that believe it have been scammed. His tax bill wasn't paid because he couldnt fool enough of you to send him money. Notice how eager he is to sell exclusive media rights to his story yet the best you see is the go kart? its all a money grab.

And now that he's bankrupt, he is conveniently blaming it all on the government. Claiming the missile is in a friend's possesion, ignoring the fact that if the government really cared, they could just demand that he identify the friend or else jail him as a threat to society. Surprise proof of the missile's existance is gone. Let's hope he has a few friends that aren't as imaginary as the one hiding the missile.

Only the taxman is after him, not the military. There is no conspiracy to prevent him from making the missile, just his own inability to report and pay his taxes properly.

Gee a scammer who avoids taxes, there's a new twist.

Could a cruise missle be manufactured for $5,000? Probably after all the research and development.

Did this guy do it? no way.

Move on, there's nothing to see here, the little grey men, silent black helicopters, and missing snipers from the grassy gnoll will escort you out.

Ya, well

[Sycraft-fu]

This is why you need to be careful on taxes. Like it or no, they are YOUR responsibility in most countries. For most people, with just a saliry/wage and maybe some investments it is as simple as getting all the standard documentation and filing a form. However if you start to play around substantially with investments (espically complex ones) or running your own bussiness, make sure your books are clean. Don't think every thing is fine, KNOW it's fine, or you could find you owe money you didn't think you did.

Yes, they were being wankers about it, but all in all, that's ther job. For every 1 guy like this there are hundreds that are just trying to get away with not paying. I'm also sure that "but I have the big bussiness deal that will get me all the money I need real soon" is not an uncommon excuse that gets tried.

So I can feel some sympathy, but not too much. A friend of mine got nailed with a $2000 tax bill from a web design bussiness he had for a bit. He didn't properly document all his expenses (he lost money on the venture) and so he got screwed. I feel kinda sorry for him but ultimately, it was his responsiblity to know this shit.

Naming Mistake

[Tablizer]

Instead of calling it a "cruise missle", why not call it an "automated in-flight mail carrier" or "hobby hover-craft". Then the military would not get their panties in bundle over it. Typical of us nerds to open our big mouths without realizing how the rest of the world will interpret it.

It's just all politics...

[theoretician]

I don't think that Bruce is the only person aware of the fact that Cruise Missiles can be built with relatively low budget. There could be many other people, whether with some dark agenda or not is beyond us, who have the knowledge and fund to make some serious progress in similar projects. My question is to what effect is the New Zealand government attempting to "kill the project"?

It is an interesting point to note that the New Zealand government DO NOT have an air force sufficient enough to defend itself from any form of missile attacks. Is the New Zealand government trying to hide from this shaming fact and the humiliating possibilities by stopping Mr. Simpson from conducting researches on missile technology? I think it's funny how they restrict the knowledge from being publicized.

According to one of the articles that Mr. Simpson has written, the government itself has breached some of the laws to prevent him from continuing the project. This is absurd. For what reason should the citizens of New Zealand follow the law imposed on them by their government, if it is not consistently applied to all New Zealand citizens, military personnel and governors alike? If the government has "publicly admitted that the project broke no laws," they certainly owe Mr. Bruce Simpson an open apology and should permit him from continuing his projects in missile technology.

Propagating ignorance will not prevent terrorist attacks. If they should silent those who has the knowledge that could be potentially used by terrorists, no industry could possible exist anywhere in this world. Explosives can be obtained from some readily available chemicals; shoe laces can be turned into a lethal weapon; a plane can become a cannon shell; a pencil can be used by a professional trained person to kill hundreds... and the list simple goes on. Whether some seemingly trivial things can become a terrorist's tool is merely a matter of how limited your imagination is.

I don't see how shutting down Mr. Simpson's project will be to the benefit of national security or the worldwide hype of anti-terrorist champaign. It is, however, a desperate endeavor of politicians to secure their positions from being put in a vulnerable state, from those who possess the knowledge of technology so much more powerful than what they command.

Re:Some discussions of the project and its shutdow

[shostiru]

Why do you need cyanide?

Bad example. Cyanide is used extensively in industry and there are some home uses. Mostly, home uses I'm aware of involve KFeCN -- don't recall the valence -- such as photography and growing pretty crystals (despite the name it's not particularly toxic as long as you keep it away from acids).

Should you be allowed to possess the chemical formula on how to manufacture cyanide?

The top secret formula? Add an acid to a cyanide salt. Congratulations, all you terrorists out there now know as much as a high-school chem student. As Kibo says, You're Allowed.

Should you only be prevented from actually making and storing cyanide?

I'm storing a cyanide salt right now, perfectly legally. I purchased it from a photography supply store which sold it legally. With effort, I could make it into a weapon, but I can think of much better things to do with it. For that matter, I could do the same with fertilizer and diesel, or gunpoweder, or about a gazillion other things. But then, last time I checked, I wasn't a sociopath.

We'll never be able to prevent terrorists or murderers (or recreational drug chemists, whom I don't put in the same category) from knowing basic chemistry, and there are just too many widely available precusors for things like cyanide or explosives.

It's an entirely different issue than gun control. Many gun murders are crimes of passion or opportunity. Crimes involving poisons or home-made explosives are almost exclusively premeditated.