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Open Source Bill For Australian Capital Territory

leinad writes "An article in The Age newspaper claims the Australian Capital Territory is set to become the first jurisdiction in the country to adopt a bill which says that public bodies should, as far as practicable, consider the use of open source software when procuring computer software. (The Australian Capital Territory is the small territory/state of Australia in which Canberra, the capital of Australia, is located.)" Seems like requiring blueprints from contractors, to me.

41 of 186 comments (clear)

  1. Software matters, OS does not by ObviousGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Requiring the blueprints for a building is important insofar as it is necessary to remodel the building in the future.

    However, most operating systems do not require alteration at any level below the distributor. Users are actively discouraged from changing their systems. Changing the system means possibly breaking compatibility with other systems which leads to headaches down the road as the forks diverge.

    OTOH, software is always in a state of flux. Government software is always being updated, and as long as the underlying OS doesn't change serious portings of the software do not need to take place. In the case of end-user software, it is important that the government have the software source code in hand so as to be able to contract out to companies as necessary to update it.

    But OS software is different, in that it is less likely that a change needs to be made for the purposes of government work. COTS is the name of the game, and as long as the systems are standardized to some degree things are hunky dory. There is no need for source code in the case of an OS.

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    1. Re:Software matters, OS does not by bit01 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're a troll and probably an M$ astroturfer but I'll bite so those new here won't be fooled:

      The source of the OS matters just as much as for application, but for reasons you haven't mentioned. These include:

      Documentation - it is impossible for API documentation to be complete. Source is frequently needed to make clear what will happen under rare circumstances eg. virtual memory traps during a strcpy() in a device driver.

      Back doors - without source it is impossible for the government to make sure that public data is not being used for private purposes. "Trust me" is not good enough for any non-trivial project. eg. voting

      Unusual circumstances - Governments are large organisations with many specialised operations. To say one size fits all is simply wrong. Source is not a panacea but can help solve problems that closed source vendors won't even look at. eg. support for military spec hardware.

      Forking - Closed source software forks every bit as much as open source source software and in addition will always eventually no longer be supported. With open source software an customer can make their own choices about when to drop support and not be beholden to a vendor trying to maximise profit.

      ---

      I sometimes think that closed source vendors are engaged in 1984 style double-think when it comes to closed source API's. By definition an open source API, assuming all else is equal, will allow a customer at least all the options of a closed source API.

      ---

      Astroturfers are scum

    2. Re:Software matters, OS does not by Frater+219 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      However, most operating systems do not require alteration at any level below the distributor. Users are actively discouraged from changing their systems. Changing the system means possibly breaking compatibility with other systems which leads to headaches down the road as the forks diverge.

      That's silly. It's like saying that having the freedom to remodel your building means that you're going to undermine its foundations and break its compliance with the building code. Of course you don't do that.

      When you have a large site with higher potential migration costs, you would be fiscally irresponsible to hand your system over to a single-source vendor. You wouldn't sign a building contract which specified that only the original builder could fix the roof if it leaked, would you? He could charge any price he wanted -- your only options would be to pay it, or to live in a leaky building, or to demolish or abandon the building and build another. That is what lock-in and migration costs mean in proprietary software.

      It's true that you, or your staff, may never need to make changes to your software yourself. However, you still benefit from the fact that others can, and that you are not locked-in to someone else's way of doing business.

    3. Re:Software matters, OS does not by AnotherFreakboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's important to remember that there is a lot of Open Source software out there that is not an Operating System.

      I hear there is even Open Source software that is Operating System independant...

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    4. Re:Software matters, OS does not by teh*fink · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Requiring the blueprints for a building is important insofar as it is necessary to remodel the building in the future.

      wtf? requiring plans for a building is considered necessary (usually on a local level) because the designs need to be reviewed for competency, accordance to various codes, and to make sure the builder isn't cheating to cut costs, etc.; all of which are in the public good. if you really wanted to draw a good comparison, you could say any software used in at least the goverment (or the public sector as a whole) should be required to adhere to a strict set of safety, security, and other guidelines before being allowed use...in other words a set of rules much like the building code.

      --
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    5. Re:Software matters, OS does not by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Changing the system means possibly breaking compatibility with other systems
      Since when was ANY closed source operating system(or software) designed to be compatible with other vendors products? If the standards for Windows applications and documents were at all transparent - then that would undermine most of MS's business model.

      Open source encourages standards- because people like interoperability. People like being able to upgrade freely - not have to upgrade one expensive license only to find out they have to upgrade all their other sofwtare to work with it(2k to Xp for instance).

      Software is always in a state of flux. That is what things like Portage/Gentoo, Debian/Apt and Redhat RPM are all about.

      The definition of what is OS and what is apps is becoming increasingly blurred. Is KDE an App? Part of the OS? Somewhere in between? The same could be said for many MS services. Although the GUI has now been integrated furthar down(instead of Win on top of dos), would you say Explorer (as in your desktop) is part of the OS? Or just a nifty utility shipped with it?

      I think having all the source code is a good idea, both for upgradeability, transparency, security/trust and maintainability.
      --
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  2. what's most interesting by LardBrattish · · Score: 5, Insightful

    isn't the bit about "considering open source wherever practical" which is easy to weasel around. I like this bit:-

    The bill, which goes before the ACT Legislative Assembly tonight, also specifies that public bodies should not use software that does not comply with open standards or standards recognised by the ISO or software for which support or maintenance is provided only by an entity that has the right to exercise exclusive control over its sale or distribution.

    That'll be the bit that gives most trouble to the beast of Redmond...

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    What are you listening to? (http://megamanic.blogetery.com/)
    1. Re:what's most interesting by aheath · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't see anything in the coverage of the bill that suggests that closed source software can not be procured and used if support or maintenance can be sourced from more than one vendor. In other words, closed source software is fine provided that a third party can provide support for this product.

    2. Re:what's most interesting by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Good Point.

      I think in order to be fair, they simply couldn't completely shut the door on proprietary solutions. People here are looking at the overall system and what it can do... and if Microsoft is still required to run a particular system because only it can... then MS will stay put.

      OTOH, if the government want to create jobs and boost the local IT industry.... those MS licences will slowly die out when an OSS alternative replacement comes along.

      For most people, a Linux system does the job. OpenOffice is great (still has a few quirks here and there, but is generally "good enough" considering you don't pay a cent for it). All the other tools just add value to an already free offering.

      And let's not forget FreeBSD in the server room.

      Having said all that, forcing OSS solutions and avoiding vendor lock-in is going to be tricky when you basically need a vendor to offer you support somewhere. This basically means that if the Enterprise is running Linux on the desktop, according to the Aussie government's proposition, the whole install MUST have no proprietary pieces in there which would inhibit a change in service/support vendors. ....That's the most interesting thing that I see coming up.
      Now, who other than Microsoft can support their own OS at a source code level? Microsoft may have to take the initiative on this one....

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  3. Define support by ObviousGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Define maintenance.

    I'm sure you'll find that Redmond will have no trouble satisfying this clause.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:Define support by LardBrattish · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I see your point but how many companies can provide a fix for an exploit in SQL Server? How about MySQL or Postgresql...

      The open source movement needs to market itself better to the enterprise. That's why I support that proposal by the Debian guy to get certification & target vertical markets with tailored distros. If someone did that for the British NHS & sold them 1.6m seats @ (say) UKP20 + annual support @ UKP20/seat/year there'd be a reasonable amount of cash (64 Million Pounds) going into the system to enhance the distro

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  4. Requiring Open Source is not a solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Requiring open source is like requiring openly designed cars, electronic devices, etc... for the government business. It doesn't make sense and it is not the right way to promote open source. It is totally discriminatory and unfair. I would reject such an idea and will consider it an abuse of the government power against the free will of people.

    Promoting open standards is another matter though, cause that really gives people the power to use whatever they want, be it open source or Microsoft software, it doesn't matter.

    1. Re:Requiring Open Source is not a solution by mabinogi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about requiring, it's about considering....

      Also the most significant part of the bill is not really about open source...it's about requiring the use of open standards, and avoiding single vendor lock in....

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    2. Re:Requiring Open Source is not a solution by ignavus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think it is the business of government to tell you that you should consider the use of open source software.

      It *is* the business of governments to regulate how government sector organisations purchase software. They aren't trying to tell *you* what to buy ... unless you are a government sector employee. In which case they are your employer, and *can* tell you what to buy.

      I see this as affirmative action against all those government agencies that automatically think that expensive, multi-national-owned software is intrinsically better than open source, or locally produced stuff from small vendors.

      There are plenty of government managers who get their kudos from spending lots of tax-payers' dollars on big-budget projects, when something much more modest would do the job ... at a far lower cost. But then the manager wouldn't be able to say, "I have a bigger budget than you!" This legislation helps, a little, to counteract some of this waste.

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
  5. food on the table by mcclure · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm working for a company whom I've convinced to give the whole "open source thing" a looksee.

    This legislation means a lot to us - even though it doesn't cover the whole of the government, (as near as i can tell) it only applies to the ACT government.

    We will now get a lot more interest in our services - and once we're in one government department, federal departments can't be that far away!

    Exciting times.

    1. Re:food on the table by child_of_mercy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually the Australian Defence Signals Directorate's (DSD - roughly analogous to the NSA) advisory site for government departments only links to Linux in it's OS downloads section.

      See here

      --
      'There is a Light that never goes out.'
  6. Territory vs State by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    The Australian Capital Territory is the small territory/state of Australia in which Canberra, the capital of Australia, is located.

    It is a territory. It is not a state. There is a difference.

  7. In case that doesn't make sense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Australian Capital Territory is the small territory/state of Australia in which Canberra, the capital of Australia, is located.

    Just like the Washington/Washington D.C. concept.

    1. Re:In case that doesn't make sense... by Cosmik · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One can only wish that they became more similar, and our Prime Minister moved to Texas as well.

  8. CLUG by femto · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I wonder what influence CLUG had on this outcome?

    CLUG projects include samba and rsync, so they could be called a 'shining light' for the ACT.

    1. Re:CLUG by Snoopy77 · · Score: 2, Informative

      And don't forget the ACT is the home of Tux! There is even a sign about Linux at the penguin exhibit at the zoo.

      --
      "She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
  9. Not the last of the legislation either by Norman+at+Davis · · Score: 5, Informative

    According to The Australian, this is "part of a coordinated national approach by the Democrats, which has seen similar legislation introduced in South Australia and federally and under consideration in [New South Wales] (whose capitol is Sydney) - calls for government to "consider" the purchase of open source software in procurement plans." The article also mentions that "the original version of the bill would have required the ACT to 'prefer open source software' but that was of course neutered. Appearently in the last six months alone the ACT has spent $15 million Australian ($11 mil US) (Converter) on Microsoft software and support for the next three years.

    --
    Just another two cents from the Norm.
  10. Re:Someone has to say it by penguinoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So go work for Red Hat. Open source is producing jobs at Red Hat. Technological improvements always destroy some jobs, but others appear to take their place.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  11. Re:Someone has to say it by LardBrattish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As a programmer this is a huge concern for me obviously. But in this case it's Australian government so they are interested in keeping as much of the money in Australia as possible.

    There was a great article in Australian Developer a few months ago explaining the economics of open source for (non US) governments and the way that supporting FOSS keeps more money in your country and improves your balance of trade.

    This is not the case in America for obvious reasons :)

    --
    What are you listening to? (http://megamanic.blogetery.com/)
  12. we already do this by urban_gorilla · · Score: 5, Interesting

    actually working for a government department that pretty much exculsively uses open source for our development projects i can say... it works... and pretty well too.
    we are a small department, and without a large budget have managed to complete projects in a similar, if not smaller amount of time and that would have otherwise cost millions.
    yes. millions
    go figure.

    --
    "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah." - Lennon, McCartney
  13. Hacked up already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The bill was pushed through last night (about 12 hours ago) the full hansard is not yet available but I will link to it when it comes up.

    Something that is just as interesting as the full hansard is the minutes and the changes that were made to the bill that has now been passed.

    The line

    'as far as practicable prefer open source software'

    was changed to

    'as far as practicable consider open source software'

    Full minutes:
    Are here

    Page 8 has the bill
    Page 10 has the ammendments

  14. The bill has been passed by dilby · · Score: 4, Informative
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  15. good by POds · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Cool, maybe the Australian taxation office will be able to read those applications forms i've been sending in openoffice format now? Wooh, i might get a job soon.

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  16. More coverage by child_of_mercy · · Score: 2, Informative

    We've got a lot more detail on this, including links to the actual legislation, at RiotACT (Canberra focused slashlike)

    --
    'There is a Light that never goes out.'
  17. Why was such a law needed? by Cosmik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm an ACT resident, and discussion about this bill came up at work today. In regards to that, I've got to wonder why the hell a bill was needed for this - why is a policy, strictly enforced, not enough?

    Are our politicians so inept that they have to hold onto the contraints of the law in order to purchase some new software? Wait...I think I just answered my own question.

  18. what about pay back? by kautilya · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I hope these governments will pay back too. If they are benefitting from open source, they should somehow invest to promote open source software.

  19. The ACT! I'm sure and Australian will.... by Osrin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... shed some light on this.

    The ACT governments is not one of the 7 state governments, nor does it represent the Australian federal government.

    My understanding is that the ACT Government represents the ACT (strange that)... an underfunded town that is smaller and less influential than Munich.

    It's nice to see the activity, but don't get over excited, this isn't going to rock anybodies world.

    1. Re:The ACT! I'm sure and Australian will.... by child_of_mercy · · Score: 4, Informative

      1) there are six state government
      2) While a small province Tasmania is not that much larger (in population)
      3) It's a fully fledged parliament, not a local council, so it's an Act that has been made, not a council ordinance or Regulation.
      4) The Federal Government is administered in Canberra. The same contractors who supply services that meet the requirements of this Act will be biddding for federal work.
      5) this is the beginniug not the end.

      --
      'There is a Light that never goes out.'
  20. Re:You haven't understood by Capsaicin · · Score: 2, Informative

    What's the government, a third party person? The government is me. Government is using my money, my resources. I am one of the guys who maintain the government, not the government itself.

    NO the government is not you, it's us. The government is not using your money, it's using the funds from (what in the ACT is called) 'consolidated revenue.' Once you have paid your taxes that money is not yours in any personal sense, any more than the money you spent on that can of coke is yours, notwithstanding the fact that you may be a shareholder of the CocaCola Co. Once again it is ours.

    And because it is ours, and we can (and in the ACT must) vote, the government better spend it in a cost effective manner (no multi-million dollar salary packages in the public service I'm afraid). If using OSS, or products for which the service market is competitive, saves the government money then it is quite the correct thing for the government to do.

    Beyond the niggardly concerns of how consolidated revenue is to spent, however, there is a greater issue of principle here. 'Access' and 'Transparency' are supposed to be touchstones of democratic government. Clearly it behoves a government to embrace standards which are non-proprietary and open insofar as it is practicable.

    This is not about open source, this is about your own freedom to choose. ... And nobody can make decision for you, neither government nor open source zealots.

    Once again, nobody is making the decision for you. You can use whatever you like. This is about what it is appropriate for a democractic government to use. You need to learn to disguise your teenage libertarian paranoia a little better.

    --
    Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
  21. Now hopefully they dont turn up drunk this time... by denks · · Score: 2, Funny

    or on the other hand if they share some of that wine around the bill may actually pass!

    --

    I am Monkey, the Great Sage, equal of heaven!
  22. The bill has been passed. by NicksMyName · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to Computer World the bill was approved today.

  23. Support is what kills Open Source... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work for an IT company, among the largest, providing services in the ACT. I'm also one of the few people in this company that will even consider open source solutions to any given problem instead of jumping immediately to a Microsoft offering. Open source solutions are almost invariably dismissed if a Microsoft soution can be cobbled together. While I applaud the intent of this bill I don't think it'll change the status quo.

    Government departments, local, State, or Federal have two common traits:
    * They are risk averse
    * They want someone to blame when things don't go right

    Adopting an open source solution when all departments around you are Microsoft shops and all the local IT companies are Microsoft shops is seen as violating both traits.

    Risk comes from the possibility that things may not interoperate (without your user base having to actually think for themselves). The first time a Minister or Dept. Head cannot open a memo or check a calendar because of file format problems someone will have to answer. Risk of this occurring increases as Redmond moves to close its file formats.

    When open source fails there is no-one to blame. Even though blaming MS for failure in their software is pointless insofar as rectifying the problem it does provide suitable cover for bureaucrats. You and I both know that solutions to most open source problems can be had with a modicum of effort. However, if you cannot buy local IT company support for OpenOffice or whatever then you have to provide this effort yourself - something Australian governments have spent the best part of a decade divesting themselves of the ability to provide.

    Good idea, and I hope it works, but I won't be holding my breath.

  24. The legislation and more info by xixax · · Score: 4, Informative
    The Bill in question is available on the ACT government's web site and (as passed) on the member's website. Don't get too excited, it uses the weasel-word "practicable" and the conservatives had it ammended to have a 3 year life. OTOH, it could be a great mandate.

    The ACT is a administrative territory for the national capital, and we also had an OSS electronic voting system at our last election that is based on Linux

    Xix.

    --
    "Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
  25. Re:wel... by Cosmik · · Score: 4, Informative

    The bill was passed today. When the Hansard page is updated, you'll be able to find out who supported it. Out of the 17 members of the Legislative Assembly, only 1 is a Democrat (1 Dem, 1 Green, 1 Independant, 6 Libs, 8 Labor). So, if the Dems, Greens and Ind sided with the Liberals, the Dem would prove efficient, but otherwise - not much use in blocking or ensuring bill go through, really. But in this case, I'm proved wrong, so thumbs up.

  26. change for the better by macrealist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not Australian, so I probably have no right to comment, but that change seems good. There is nothing more infuriating than being forced to use a tool "just because". The wording "prefer" could be weighted in different ways. If the deciding factor in choosing is the openness of the source not the usefullness of the application, everyone losses. User are forced to use an inferior product, and they know it, and an open source project that may have blossomed, starts to get a bad reputation.

    For example, I am not an artist, and when I want to touch up a image on my computer, I use the GIMP. My brother is an artist and when he manipulates an image, he uses Photoshop. I chose the GIMP because of its price (directly related to its openness), but if my brother were forced to use the GIMP, he would hate it. It is a good tool, but not the best. And those that care about the difference don't want the choice determined by openness.

    On the other hand, forcing all to be considered, including open source, is a win for everyone. Users get the best tool, good open source projects get to play on even ground, and losing open source projects know exactly what to improve on.

    --
    I am living proof of the Peter Principle
  27. The birthplace of Tux! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hey I live in Canberra. Apparantly Linus was visiting Tridge and they went and checked out the fairy pengiuns at the National Zoo and Aquarium. It was the zoo where Linus got bitten on the finger by those cute, yet feisty little creatures! I'm so proud of that fact!

    Canberra seems to be the epicentre of Linux in Australia. The Australian National Uni where I spent some time is very pro-Linux and Open Source.

    Did you know that there are Uni's in Australia where people graduate with an IT degree, yet never once get their hands on Linux or BSD? Sad, very sad.