Low Powered Mini-Server for the Masses

ServerSam writes "Sudhian has a review up on EmergeCore's "IT in a Box" IT100. Designed for small business use, it comes equipped with a Transmeta Crusoe 533MHz, 128MB RAM, 20GB IBM TravelStar, 802.11b Access Point, and boots from a 32MB Flash card. The IT100 is powered by a 60 watt external PSU and is smaller than a PS2."

Comments

Other than size...

[BJZQ8]

Other than size, I think one of those $199 Walmart Microtel machines would be a better deal...they now have 1300MHz Durons in them. They are a bit skimpy on memory (come with 128MB), but you can buy 512MB of the SDR stuff they use for $50 these days. I have a bunch of them, and they've been flawless!

Er...

[FrostedWheat]

Yes, you can use Linux and other "free" operating systems, but the concept of Linux, and it's "unaccountability" scares most small business owners

Yes ... because as we all know Microsoft or Apple are completly "accountable" for any errors or damage there OS causes...

Re:Er...

[kinnell]

Yes ... because as we all know Microsoft or Apple are completly "accountable" for any errors or damage there OS causes...

What matters is that most people who make business decisions to use commercial software believe that the vendor is liable, and continue to believe it despite any evidence to the contrary, such as "we do not guarantee that this software will do what it is designed to do".

Re:Er...

[tabdelgawad]

The two parent posts reflect conventional wisdom here in slashdot. Unfortunately, they miss the point, which is that even if there is no strict 'legal' liability (and there are reasons to think even this may not be true), there's always some 'effective' liability imposed by business reality.

For example, suppose TurboTax makes a certain error in filing that affects a certain percentage of its customers, who are then punished with fees/audits by the IRS. If the case is publicized and the error is strictly TurboTax's, could TurboTax really afford to say that they're not liable because of their EULA? What would that do to their sales the following year? And what would consumer recourse be if they used a non-commercial tax package instead of TurboTax? Who would they hit up for their fees and damages?

Additionally, there's no guarantee that all EULAs would stand a legal test in a liability case. I believe that was what UCITA was all about, strengthening EULAs to limit software liability. If EULAs were always legally biniding, UCITA would probably be unnecessary.

I don't claim that commercial software vendors will always be liable, but there are formal and informal ways of accountability available with commercial vendors. It's not fair to claim that businesses are being completely irrational in continuing to believe this.

Cobalt RaQ and Cobalt Qube?

[ThogScully]

Anyone recognize the niche as that of Cobalt, before Sun took them over? Did those do well enough that this can be popular?

Unfortunately, as an operator of a Cobalt RaQ for many years, I found it to be very limiting once we did figure out how to really use it and how little the custom interfaces allowed, but it was great for people who just wouldn't learn that stuff.

I hope no one thinks these are patch-proof though,. Our Cobalt needed patches and even with them had trouble avoiding a few compromises since patches were so delayed. Now it runs Debian and I couldn't be happier with the little box.
-N

Re:Cobalt RaQ and Cobalt Qube?

[danamania]

It's not a bad small out of the way server for the old learning experience. The whole idea of starting admins-in-training on the most minimal hardware instead of having them throw 3GHz PIVs at serving a home site that gets 5 visitors a day just begs for inefficiency down the line.

I started my site on a 33MHz Quadra. It'd still be using that if I didn't rely on quite a bit of PHP in places. There was no reason to jump up too far, so a PPC601 was the next machine up.

What the whole experience has taught me is how to keep things running efficiently by knowing the system well, and remembering never to do stupid things, like post the URL on slashdot. :)

Re:Cobalt RaQ and Cobalt Qube?

[ThogScully]

and remembering never to do stupid things, like post the URL on slashdot. :)

Looks to me like your URL is posted to slashdot every time you post a message. http://www.danamania.com appears under your username.

But don't worry - your secret's safe with me ;-)

Smaller than a PS/2?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny how PS2 doesn't mean what it used to.

Re:Smaller than a PS/2?

[pete-classic]

I was just going to ask how many MCA slots it has. Thanks for taking the wind out of my sails.

-Peter

"The IT100 did it all at a cost of $1,395"

[no_such_user]

$1395?! Why not just buy a laptop? Or two? It would be (much!) faster, similarly power efficient with an external power supply, could likely boot from CF, could act as an AP, would even have an integrated diplay for debugging... and MUCH more. C'mon folks -- I was hoping something like this would go for $400, not $1400!

Re:"The IT100 did it all at a cost of $1,395"

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

Yep, but there is an advantage:
Think this is going for a server, the real meaning of server is 24*7; so heat is your enemy here ... there is no notebook out there that can manage to have 7 months of uptime with a high cpu usage without burning out or hanging all the time ... Crusoe is a beatifull cold processor. But i agree with you ... this kind of device is for marketroids that wants some big company behind their hard/soft, because they think that is a kind of warranty of profit (like all those assholes using redhat) ... If you have the knowledge *and* the balls to tell the manager that you are going to put home-made hardware in their raqs; it will work as well as any of this closed boxes.

Re:"The IT100 did it all at a cost of $1,395"

[Cthefuture]

Yeah but you could certainly build a VIA mini-itx system for a hell of a lot less and with a faster processor.

Anyone else notice that Newegg seems to have stopped carrying mini-itx boards? Why is that?

Re:"The IT100 did it all at a cost of $1,395"

[GrenDel Fuego]

I think the main problem here is the slashdot headline, not the product itself.

At $1,395 this is hardly a "mini-server for the masses". To me that implies personal use. This is the mini-server for small businesses.

Re:"The IT100 did it all at a cost of $1,395"

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice timing. I was on hold with Newegg to place an order when I read your post so I asked them. The order person transfered me to a manager. She said it was because of the huge number of returns. She said returns on RAM, motherboards, and processors was killing them, but returns on the few ITX boards they sold would have killed them if they had kept it up. She said most of the ITX boards they sold came back since the Via boards are so horrible at compatibility. She said the usual comments were "can't get X Windows to run," "can't get the network adapter to work," "can't get the sound card to work," and so on. Every single one of those pieces are proprietary on the Via ITX boards.

I've been a Linux user for over 10 years, and I've used X Windows on PC's for 9 years, but it still took me two entire days to get X Windows to work on the Via garbage. You don't even get the source to their X Win driver so you have to upgrade or downgrade to the version of X Win that they demand you to. For us, we have a company standard to use Debian, so we can't use Via boards. Where my wife works, they use a newer version of X Win for their ERP software than Via allows you to, so they can't use them. Via is shooting themselves in the foot and screwing customers and dealers in the process with their proprietary garbage. The Newegg manager's statement was the reason I expected.

Re:"The IT100 did it all at a cost of $1,395"

[paxmark1]

I was in RMA hell for 12 weeks with a via-itx. I would go back to it, but bottom feeding ECS said board had been problems and they gave me a P-4 barebones with my old hard drive back. VIA - itx still have a few kinks to work out on the itx line and their linux support and drivers still needs help - just look on the via-arena. A different video than a C-media or whatever problematic video chip they attach to the board that would work seamlessly with XFree86 would be nice and why bundle a winmodem with a distro empty machine. The USB driver was very rocky from the start, finally installing the driver via Win98 (I dual boot, I have people from all over the planet using my machine here at a L'Arche house) finally fixed that, etc. etc. little niggling things. Oh not to mention the malloc stuff in compiles, and the pickiness of distros to correctly identify the VIA cyrix chip. So it is $1395 USD. If it works out of the box and functions 24/7, well, hopefully the price will go down. The ITX is not just a walk down the park. It is sweet, but a pain to get linux (or FreeBSD for that manner, I had problems withthat also) just exactly the way you want it and some of the companies distributing it do not have stellar track records for service. Shalom, Mark

Ripping off

[MikeyG79]

$1400.. I'll build my own mini tower or go out and buy something much more powerful... like a 2.2GHz w/ 1gig

The things people get ripped off with these days.

Re:Ripping off

[wwest4]

you don't need a 2+ GHz P4 to run common net svcs. you need a cold-running reliable box, preferably with no fans or drive spindles to wear out.

for small businesses, appliances make a lot of sense. they just want stuff to work and be simple to understand from a high level - they don't want a custom hack job (as fun as that may be).

these boxes (along with the slew of thin client appliances out there) often run open-source software, and not all are as expensive as this baby. i, for one, welcome our black box toaster overlords - at least at the mom&pop level.

Re:Wish the link wasn't Slashdotted.

[metlin]

Not really. Its a Transmeta 533. Even one of those el-cheapo $199 things from Walmart or an old Celeron or P3 would give this thing a run for its money.

At $1150 (?) and odd, it really isn't worth it. You're better off building your own mail server from scratch. Cheaper and better than this.

Re:Slashdotted Already?

[L0C0loco]

There is some info and a less than glowing review Here.

Enjoy

Look at the power of emergicore!

[dimer0]

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Re:No Fault Tolerance? No Server

[wwest4]

for a small business, fault tolerance is having a spare appliance complete w/ flash image.

you wouldn't be smart to use an appliance like this for file serving applications, but for DC/AD/NIS/DNS/BOOTP/DHCP, static web content, it would be a good choice for a small business if you skip the HDD and use a bigger CF card. no moving parts, longer useful lifetime and poor-man's N+1. perfect for a no-nonsense small bus.

Not just size

[Gleef]

The noise level and power usage are also key for this machine. Of course, there are other fanless machines, many of them much cheaper than this one. (Note: Not all of the machines at that site are fanless, but many are, check out the Tranquil PC and the Hush). (Also Note: Fanless doesn't equal silent, you still get drive noise and monitor whine, unless you replace those with solid state components)

Just think what a geek can do with $1100 these day

[LazloToth]

Sure, I know that not everyone can build his own box and load it with Linux. But for this money, I'm thinking you could do pretty well with a Duron, a couple of ATA 133 drives, and a cheap 1U box. If you can run a web interface such as the one described here, you probably could do alright with Webmin, too. And think how much more useful and trustworth a thing you'd have.

Ah, well - - aren't the do-it-yourselfers among us lucky?

Re:hmm

[Cthefuture]

Erm... What?!

My friend, silence is the future of computing. I really hate, I mean I - HATE - those god awful gianormous skyscraper towers that blast out 90dB of concentration breaking whirring and grinding sounds. Not to mention the heat and wasted space. Who needs 8 PCI slots, 12 drive bays, and a 600W power supply?! That's legacy garbage from the ;lt%90's man.

Smaller, faster, QUIETER. That is the future.

You sound like one of those "old timers" that likes inefficient crap just because that's all you know.

You would probably take a CRT over an LCD any day, right? (*)

* By the way, CRT's do have there uses in high speed games (Quake) but other than that they just burn your retinas.

Small Servers?

[mr_lithic]

When did size become a massive concern for people buying servers?

I thought cooling, data transfer rates and reliability (redundant PSU's etc) were the main considerations. Processor speed and storage capacity are definitely up there as well.

But Size?

I don't understand

Re:mini-itx

[odyrithm]

you know, you CAN just run that lot on the box your using now.. just an idea.. you crazy wierdo.

Re:hmm

[LeoDV]

Insightful? How so?

I so happen to have one of "those god awful 'mini' 'cube' PCs" and it's fantastic, thank you very much. I used to be a vocal opponent of those things because they were kludgy and underperformant, but I got myself one of them "mailboxes" some time ago and it's been great. I had the mother of all great big cases, the Antec 1080, which I loved (and still do, for its purpose it's the best case out there), but I realised that for normal PC operation, something that weighs 35 kilos and has eight fans is overkill.

When it was time to upgrade, I was simply going to get the same only smaller, but a friend sold me into getting one of "those god awful 'mini' 'cube' PCs" and I must say, it's one of the best computing choices I've made.

With a combo drive it can do everything a regular PC can, without significantly more noise/heat, while being smaller, lighter, and looking damn cool in black. I already upgraded the system twice with no worries, and as the time draws near to update the system again, I'm thinking about going 64-bit, but whatever I do you can bet it's going to come in a tiny black box.

Re:No Fault Tolerance? No Server

[Slider451]

Good points. However:

With raid-1, you dont even have to make backups.

That's a common misconception with RAID. Redundant disks only protect you from hardware failure. You still need to make backups to recover from human failure. If Bob in accounting deletes your Quickbooks files, they're gone. I just had to restore a giant spreadsheet from tape a couple days ago, onto a RAID 5 system.

RAID won't save you from Bob.

I Don't know about this...

[cerebralsugar]

Think about it:

1.) It includes 802.llb. How strange. Does anybody really feel a wireless server is a good thing? With 5 or 6 clients on an 802.llb network, things other than simple, tiny file transfers are going to start to slow down alot.

2.) Crusoe Processor - I mean, why not a celeron? Heat issues? Power consumption? Why use a processor intended for mobile applications in a server??

3.) The price - this thing should not break a grand. I work at a fairly major (Fortune 1000) computer reseller, and If I had a small office customer call me looking for an inexpensive server, I could sell them an IBM X series 205 for $769. It has a P4 2.4 GHZ and 256 megs of RAM. Its an honest to god server class machine.

Unless you have 8 guys with notebooks that travel and need a traveling server, what is the point of this? And for the price, if you did have those 8 guys, you could jsut have a 9th notebook, and have better specs, AND be battery powered.

Re:128MB?

[bigdavex]

A system with only 128MB or RAM is NOT a server in today's world. Ten years ago maybe but not today.

Now there's some exageration. RAM was about $50/MB in 1993, making 128MB $6,400.

Re:Just think what a geek can do with $1100 these

[drinkypoo]

I don't think you understand how ridiculous this really is. People only need to save space like that when they're on a small boat, in a car, or something like that. You can get (aka, I just got) a Gigabyte nForce2 motherboard with everything but video onboard (including gigE, 1394, ATA RAID, SATA RAID, USB2) for $110. And an Athlon XP 2500+ for $100 or so. All told I paid about $240 shipped. $200 will get you a ~160GB hard drive; get two of them so you can mirror, and you're up to $650. 512MB of DDR333 is $80 or so, $730. A DVD-RW ($110) and a decent case with 400W PS ($100) bring us up to $940. Floppy drive (for emergencies), cheapie video card, and cheap keyboard and mouse will round this out to a complete server system with RAID-protected data, a backup solution for the data which absolutely positively must be protected and taken offsite (most people do not have data files larger than 4.7GB) and not just that, it has enough processor and memory to do probably anything you want to do in a small business. I stress that this is a complete solution; you could spend much less and get much less which would still be plenty for most people.

Too much work for you? Go to geeks.com and pick up some refurb'd HP desktops for $500 each, with 17" monitors, CDRW, DVD-ROM, 120-160GB disks, keyboard, mouse, fucken speakers fer chrissakes... and a ~2.2 GHz celery chip.

The fact is that the vast majority of people have space to put a full size computer for a server. It's only in very unusual environments where space matters so much that your only server must be smaller than a shoebox. Aside from such special cases, assuming anyone buys this device, it will mostly be people who don't understand computers, and think it looks really neat.

Re:Slashdotted Already?

[Hektor_Troy]

Less than glowing?

hrmm ...

Overall recommendation: Recommended

Editors' rating: 7.6 out of 10 (Good)

Setup and ease of use: 8 out of 10

Features and security: 8 out of 10

Performance: 7 out of 10

Service and support: 7 out of 10

Okay, I guess I'm stupid. 5 out of 10 would be average, more than that would be positive, and an average of 7.6 puts it in the top 25%.

When did anything less than 9 out of 10 become crappy?

Re:Cowards!

[frenetic3]

if you think about the target market for these devices, they're for small businesses that probably don't have a very experienced IT staff (or none at all.) everyone knows how to use a browser though and an ssl-encrypted https session is a secure way to manage. and most non-computer types freak out at CLIs and conversely love shiny graphics and buttons. gotta understand people that would buy this thing just want to see it at staples or compusa, grab it, unwrap it, and have it just _work_.

-fren