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PC Mag - Mac OS X Insecure
Suki writes "In this recent story a PC Mag writer concludes that "Panther and Jaguar were not better at outrunning vulnerabilities than Windows" and as my personal fav. ends by asking "How cocky are you feeling now, Mac elite? Hmm. Suddenly it's gotten pretty quiet around here." The article discusses many previous Windows security holes against a recent Mac OS X security flaw."
He raises good points (I actually read the article), but one thing that OSX will always have over current versions of Windows, however, is the fact that in OSX you don't run as root/admin by default when you start off or create new users.
Until this is fixed, the same attacks will be much more effective against Windows users just because of the rights the current user has on the box.
dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge
and a known patch is on the way. it's a very easy vulnerability to avoid. there's no virus yet...
was it worth the rant, or has he just been waiting a long time to make it?
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
He's basically saying that since there was one widely-reported Mac security hole, Macs are as insecure as Windows? Odd comparison.
Mind you, I'm not too overwhelmed with his research; if he'd been paying attention, he'd have caught the SSH vulnerability the other month. It's not like Macs have been immune, and nobody with any clue claims they are.
What you can claim accurately is that Apple fixes holes promptly and fairly quickly, and that the MacOS X architecture does not have flaws which result in two or three active IE holes in the wild right now.
Apple isn't perfect, they're just pretty good. Microsoft isn't evil, they're just not as good as they should be. It's perfectly reasonable to use those two facts in making one's security decisions.
It's pretty sad when Windows-users feel they have to start defending themselves by pointing out that other operating systems are vulnerable too. The last paragraph pretty much says all in that regard...
But the mindlessly superior retort is always the same, "No, it's because the Apple OS does not have the same holes as Windows. OS X is just a better operating system."
Whatever. All OSes have their inherent problems, but next month, when Microsoft racks up another suit of deathly insecure vulnerabilities, OS X will probably be fixed and free from defects for another couple of months.
I'm not a Mac fanatic, but it's because OS X is based on Unix, and Unix is more elegant in its design that gives OS X its better security.
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Mac OS X gets one flaw and it's suddenly on par with the truckload of Windows security problems? What a funny little man...
First, let's get the obvious stuff out of the way. THIS VULNERABILITY IS NOT ON BY DEFAULT ON OSX! You have to go into an obscure app (Directory Access) that most users don't know about, and turn on an option that most users don't need, in order to be vulnerable. Also, this vulnerability was never exploited.
How can this idiot compare that to the hundreds of millions of computers ACTUALLY INFECTED by Windows vulnerabilities like Nimda, Code Red, Melissa, Klez, Sobig.f, and thousands of others? Using Windows is like buying random illegal drugs on the street to treat a headache.
The MacOS is not without its flaws, but Windows is the swiss cheese of the secure computing world. It's very telling that the author didn't allow for any feedback or provide his email address.
- Vincit qui patitur.
> a recent OS X security flaw
That's the significant word, I think. A single one
They will never know the simple pleasure of a monkey knife fight
- Number of Macs reported/suspected to be cracked by recent vulnerabilities: ZERO
- Number of Windows PCs known to be cracked by recent vulnerabilities: MILLIONS
So... I'm feeling pretty damn cocky, thanks for asking.Sorry, but this is nonsense. UNIX *is* more secure than Windows, but Windows was *designed* with more security in mind. UNIX comes from an academic background where loose and free access is the norm (or was in the 70s). All of the security trappings are post-hoc.
Now if you want to say that UNIX's technical excellence is demonstrated by the fact that even security being a crude add-on, it's still superior to Windows' baked-in attempts, then you would of course be right. But UNIX was never designed for security from the ground up...
Advice: on VPS providers
I've been a Mac user for four years now, but I still regularly use Windows and occasionally Linux. To me, Mr. Ulanoff seems to embody the worst type of Mac user - the cynical ex-user. All the Mac users I've talked to aren't snobby or "elite" but almost every single ex-mac user is. It's almost like they were upset that they had to leave MacOS and now all they do is spit insults at anyone who thinks that Macs are cool.
I feel bad for anyone who feels the need to put a group of users down simply due to their choice in tools. That goes for the "Mac elite" that Mr. Ulanoff has to deal with as well.
I understand that a lot of you here on Slashdot are new to the Mac (since OS X) but those of us who have been on Macs for longer recognize this type of junk tech writing for exactly what it is: an attempt to stir the shit and increase readership. It's probably easier to sell advertising on your site or magazine if you can create just the right anti-Mac tempest in a teapot and sell a few more copies or increase your web site hits. This tactic used to run under the headline "Apple going out of business" or "Apple to close up." Now that's mutated into a "critique" of security or speed claims or whatever. Sadly, there is a fraction of Mac users out there who are still willing to take this bait and play into the game. I'm not even looking at the article. Been there, done that. I recommend that you stare out the window and observe the slow but steady growth of the grass outside--that would be far more productive that playing into this kind of shameless, professional trolling masquerading as tech reporting.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Wrong. There is something to be said for how security is considered in the design of an OS. For Windows, it wasn't much of a consideration, which contributed heavily to why there have been so many systemic vulnerabilities.
The system was designed to be user-friendly, not secure. They got their market-share because of that fact. I think it is much easier to make a secure system user-friendly than to make a user-friendly system secure. Microsoft is finding that out as well. You reap what you sow.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
Then you can go here to discuss what a steaming load this "commentary" is. Oh, my gosh. Someone who already has access to your network can put a malicious machine on it that will lead to your Mac being owned when it reboots. That's so freakin' simple. Not like those astonishingly difficult Windows attacks of sending emails, setting up websites and/or having users download spyware. The sky is obviously falling. AAAAAHHHHHHH!
Personally I would not have made that choice, but at least there was check box to turn off the default DNS trust. If only windows came with checkboxes to remove its bugs. And I dont mean like checkboxes that say "turn off scripting and cripple my browser please".
In fact mac has not even fixed the so-called hole because its not neccessarily a mistake.
In any case the SSH vulnerability, and the screen-locker vulnerability were in fact true holes created by mistakes. These are what should be scrutinized. But these did not lead to widesperead network worms at least. they did not arrise out of a insecure by desing attitude that pervades all the Active-X philosopy, the power-user-by-default philosophy, the standards crushing embrace-and-extend, the optional log-in password philosophy, or the add features rather than fix bugs philosophy that rightfully inspires all the anti-windows zealotry.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Apache killed it. Apache runs 70% of the web. IIS receives 90% of the attacks and hacks.
Claiming that OS X sufers fewer hacks because it's a smaller market is a post hoc fallacy.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
If we suddenly had a way to make perfect copies of objects as big as, say, cars, I imagine that thousands of shiny red Mustang convertible clones would instantly appear on the road. Most of us would find that wrong.
What? What? What? Being able to make perfect copies of objects the size of cars would, I think, be the greatest moment in the history of humanity! Hello!?! The end of hunger? The end of want? The end of shortages of essential, life-saving medicines? Barrels of clean water for the third world? Bueller? Bueller?
If we were in a position to do this (and how would it be *stealing* anything, anyway? The original is still in possession of the owner, so - guh! - it's copyright infringement at best ;), then I think IP rights would be the last thing on anybody's mind, because *the capitalist system would be instantly destroyed*! Frankly, I'd welcome that. Capitalism may be the best of a bad bunch of socio-economic systems right now, but if something demonstrably better shows up, most people would take it in an instant.
Although maybe it's possible that he just really, *really* hates Mustangs.
The guy's an idiot. Even ignoring a ridiculous brain-dead analogy like replicated Mustangs, the fact he can compare OS X's few security holes (and I don't even *use* OS X - I'm no fan) to the gaping net that is Windows shows he must be blowing somebody to keep writing this garbage...
You must think in Russian.
You forgot one important thing - you must also reboot. If you don't reboot your Netinfo daemon doesn 't pick up the new information supplied by the poisoned DHCP server. So the attacker must also trick you into restarting your computer.
In short, yes this is a potential exploit but an extremely unlikely one. By the time the attacker does all of these things he probably would have been better off just walking over to your computer and stealing it from you.
Sapere aude!
OSX has the out of box simplicity edge while still having all these services off?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Unix is more elegant, but the fact that it grew up together with the Internet as a networked OS. This was not an afterthought. Neither was multiple users and security. When you work with something long enough, it becomes second nature and solid and secure. How did Windows start out? Single user. No Internet. No concept of services/daemons. You machine was its own little island. It was all about the single user GUI in the office to do one task.
And anyway, if XP is so secure, why are they scrapping it for a complete new rewrite - again? It's because it can't be fixed and it has more security leaks than a seive. Microsoft has tried and tried to reshape the Internet into what they want it to be and, thank god, it's failing. And in a way so stupendous that now those that get sacked regularly gotta go off and complain about it. Well boo hoo to them. I've never experienced a virus or worm on OS X or Linux/Unix and I don't suppose I will be anytime soon. There's a reason for that and m$ still doesn't get it.
I'll admit, right away, that I'm a Mac user. Then again, I'm also a Windows user, Linux user, SunOS user, etc. I'm really not *that* platform dependant. I guess I really don't understand the reasoning behind arguing over an OS. The argument is rather petty if you are not doing anything to improve upon the security of the operating system you favor. No OS is perfect, and no OS is totally secure.
I did find a few problems with the article (beside the fact that the author was bashing mac users who bash windows users...circular logic, anyone?). The author claimed that due to the fact that DVD Jon cracked quicktime encryption of ACC streams (used by the iTunes Music Store) doesn't mean it's going to bring either the MacOS or Windows to its knees. It's a f**king MP3 player for Chrissakes. Sure, vulnerability that could circumvent OS security might exist within iTunes, but the specific nature of DVD Jon's crack has nothing to do with OS security.
The author made this claim about the cross-platform iTunes "exploit" while failing to mention anything at all about Macros, and the possible for viruses that accompany them. To me, it seems that the author was grasping at straws without having any concrete evidence to back up his claims.
Whenever I read an article from one side of the OS wars bashing the other side, I tend to think that the author was in danger of missing his deadline and needed to come up with something in a hurry. Why does this issue never get old? Perhaps we should think about ways to make our OS of choice more secure rather than bashing others' flaws.
AgentOJ
I have a router now - see, I can learn :)
Some people tell me I should set up an old PC to run Linux and configure that as a router, but they don't seem to understand that:
* That requires significant effort on my part
* My router is small (paperback book size)
* It doesn't make loads of noise and consume loads of power.
* When I occasionally get problems with my connection (about once every 2 months), whatever the problem, it's usually solved by toggling the router power switch, and takes a few seconds.
But you can't tell some people...