Slashdot Mirror


The Future of Flight

Roland Piquepaille writes "With "High Times," the Economist delivers a very long and extremely well-documented article about the future of aviation during the next fifty years. It tells us about pilotless planes, with 32 countries currently developing more than 250 models of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), primarily for combat purposes. The article also looks at future civilian pilotless planes and at the future of personal aviation. But what captivated my attention in this article was the last part about future commercial supersonic and hypersonic (at least five times the speed of sound) planes. In particular, the Economist describes the HyperSoar. "The HyperSoar is a concept for a craft flying at ten times the speed of sound and able to reach any point on the globe within two hours." This overview contains more details and references about the HyperSoar which would fly from Los Angeles to New York in 35 minutes."

55 of 280 comments (clear)

  1. flying cars by potpie · · Score: 2, Funny

    planes!? Where are the flying cars? I was promised flying cars!

    --
    Esoteric reference.
    1. Re:flying cars by atommoore · · Score: 3, Funny

      "If cars were meant to fly, God would have given them wings", Bishop Milton Wright, 1903

      --
      You are not your blog
    2. Re:flying cars by atherton2 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Eclipse Aviation of Albuquerque, New Mexico have produced a Air taxi capable of carring 5 people upto 1500 Km, but for this to be widely adopted 'free flight' must first exist. This allows piolts to plot there own jouneys, cutting distances and utlising more airspace. 'free flight' relies on each aircraft having it's own computer that allows aircraft to avoid each other. For more information see this weeks (13/12/03) New Scientist p28-33.

  2. high times? by orion67 · · Score: 4, Funny

    hmm, I thought High Times was a publication of a different sort...

    1. Re:high times? by motardo · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought it was a magazine for very tall people

  3. It's nearly 2004.... by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 3, Funny
    Where are the flying cars?

    Enough said.

    --
    "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    1. Re:It's nearly 2004.... by turgid · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nyeah, here, of course!

    2. Re:It's nearly 2004.... by iamdrscience · · Score: 4, Funny
      I forget where I found this, but it's freakin' awesome and voices your and my concerns very well.
      Dear Gerald Glaser, Executive Officer of the National Science Foundation,

      We the people are upset at the so-called 'world of tomorrow' which still hasn't gotten here yet. We were promised a lot by cartoons and optimistically naive '50s scientists ... Instead here we are driving gas-powered cars and masturbating with our hands like suckers. Well no more. My fellow taxpayers and I are planning a revolt if our demands for unrealistic scientific advancements are not satisfied.

      The list is as follows; -Meal pills. How come we have to spend so much time eating and shitting? We should at least genetically engineer some 10-breasted chickens with skin like KFC's Extra Tasty Crispy recipe and small, colorful donkeys full of candy to bash at kids' birthday parties. -What about Spanish fly? GHB is for creeps (who likes having sex with people who are passed out?), but it seems OK to slip a girl a mickey if it makes her hot in the pants. Where are the flying cars? "Back to the Future II" promised us flying cars by 2015 - do you guys have a prototype yet, or are you still working on designing the spoiler and stuff? For that matter, how go the electric/hyrdogen cars? Are those almost done, because I don't want my grandkids riding around on rickshaws or bicycles. And it's a fucking travesty that we don't have hoverboards. They had them in Japan when I was in middle school, or at least that was the rumor. Where are the helpful robots? Robots could be washing our cars, frying our fries and exciting our genitals (without all the nagging). George Jetson had a conveyor belt of robot arms that brushed his teeth and clothed him, and if such a thing is possible in the cartoon future, it's possible now. We could give disabled people helpful robots instead of helper-monkeys that just screech and fling excrement. We could give the first robot servants to blacks as reparation for the years of slavery they endured. Robots fix everything. Why can't we control the weather? It would revolutionize sports and agriculture, since it would rain on farms and not baseball fields, and we could even assassinate dictators in other countries with tornadoes and hail and we wouldn't be responsible since it's an act of God. Supposedly Nike is already working on this, but it's high time that they invent a shoe that allows white people the ability to run fast, play better basketball and have the coordination to dance well. Word up. X-ray glasses that work like the ad says they do. I want to look at panties and stuff; I'm not interested in who has a metal hip or a weapon taped to their genitals.

      Scientists are always missing the big picture. If our demands aren't met, we'll kick the NSF's ass with our space shoes on. Once they're invented, that is.
    3. Re:It's nearly 2004.... by Desert+Raven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't say I'm sorry at all that we don't have flying cars.

      Seriously, the average goober has enough trouble dealing with two dimensions. Three is far too much for them to handle while they lean over the seats to yell at their kids while talking on the cell-phone with one hand while holding the map in the other.

      I'm paranoid enough worrying about them while I'm driving. I don't want to worry about one of them dropping out of the sky onto my house.

      And, even if you make the completely insane jump of reason that would let you believe that the average driver would be safe, there's always maintenance to deal with. The average aircraft spends as much, or more time in routine maintenance than in the air. Well-publicised errors notwithstanding, aircraft are some of the most meticulously maintained machines on earth. This, compared with my fellow car drivers, who are often seen driving with missing headlights, cruising at 75mph on temporary spares, belching blue smoke because they can't be bothered to remember to change the oil frequently, etc.

      I can see some limited applications for flying cars, mostly in emergency services (ie: ambulances). However, for the general public? No thank you, it gives me the shudders just to think of it.

  4. hypersonic planes by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 2, Insightful

    gee, just like the pop science article i read as a kid 30 years ago...can't wait !! (maybe they will have the 100 mile per gallon carb additive to - no wait, no more carbs !!!!)

  5. It may be fast. by pbug · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But even with that fact HyperSoar which would fly from Los Angeles to New York in 35 minutes. How long would you have to wait at the airport to get on the plane?

  6. HyperSoar and Hyper-X by John+Hansen · · Score: 2, Informative

    The only fly in HyperSoar's ointment is that its success is highly dependent upon Hyper-X. Note how similar the designs are.

    Additionally, Hyper-X is designed to use the engine block as a heatsink. It will run for a few minutes (which is all it needs to do to get up to speed) and then the engine will melt and the aircraft will splash into the Pacific. I don't think that would be a good thing for a passenger aircraft.

  7. According to my own virtual tests by Jesrad · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've done a few tests in X-Plane and came to the conclusion that with today's rockets and advanced materials it might be fairly easy to make a suborbital plane that can go from Paris to New-York in under an hour. I've got three different designs that could do it. The one obstacle is leading edge temperature at supersonic and hypersonic speeds, but shockwave shaping and the use of cryogenic fluid (liquid hydrogen ?) like on the 70s' XB-70 Valkyrie can overcome it.

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
    1. Re:According to my own virtual tests by giminy · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Wasn't the XB-70 made in the early to mid sixties?

      Also don't forget what happened to one of them. Making a big (ie passenger) aircraft that can fly that fast and that high and still be stable is ridiculously hard in the real world. Even modern-day 747s and other big round passenger aircraft are ridiculously UNstable, and require all sorts of computer operation to keep them from becoming overstressed and flying apart.

      --
      The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
    2. Re:According to my own virtual tests by transient · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There are more than just aerodynamic obstacles. How much fuel do your designs consume? What sort of load are they capable of carrying? I bet I can make ten different planes that fly from here to the moon in an hour, with no useful load and at a cost of four trillion per launch. Not to say that your designs aren't practical -- I'd just like to point out that designing airplanes is one third engineering and two thirds economics.

      --

      irb(main):001:0>
    3. Re:According to my own virtual tests by Al-Hala · · Score: 5, Informative

      Airplanes are stable or unstable due to their roles.

      Fighters are inherently unstable, to allow the radical combat sequences dictated by dogfighting. It's true some of the current fighters are unflyable without constant computer assisted tuning.

      Large passenger jets ARE inherently stable. The use of computers to control the flight surfaces are dictated by demands for maximum fuel economy, which means constant re-adjustment of CG's, trim, and other parameters.

      Nothing in their design prevents them from being flown on purely hydraulic controls in an emergency.

    4. Re:According to my own virtual tests by Zixia · · Score: 2, Informative
      Fighters are inherently unstable, to allow the radical combat sequences dictated by dogfighting.

      While it is true that modern fighters are inherently unstable, it is untrue that this is to add manoeuvrability. I have copied below an article, from someone who knows this better than me, in an attempt to stop this myth from continuing forever:

      With reference to the recent column under the heading "Flying Off Balance", I'm afraid this caused much gnashing of teeth and bashing of the head against the proverbial brick wall! The concept that instability leads to high agility is a fallacy that dates back over 40 years to the days when autostabilisers were being developed to address the handling deficiencies of various early American jets and persists to this day.

      OK, let's start with the basics:

      1. Many modern supersonic jets have a negative Static Margin (ie they have the C of G behind the Neutral Point) which makes them aerodynamically unstable, and they are made controllable by use of a full-authority autostabilisation system. This is true.

      2. These modern supersonic jets are designed with inherent instability to give enhanced agility. This is NOT true. Not only is it not the reason why the aircraft are designed in this way, it is also not true that an unstable aeroplane is more agile.

      I know this is contrary to the received wisdom, but let's just examine what's going on. Most of the following is grossly oversimplified to avoid the use of mathematics, and is also rather over-generalised, but it is valid and accurate for the purposes of this discussion. Professional aerodynamicists are requested to stop reading this now and flip forward a few pages where there are some excellent kit reviews to read.

      "Agility" of an aircraft in the pitching plane is determined by how quickly it can apply the lift forces to pull the 'G'. This in turn is dependant on how quickly the angle of attack can be increased - the pitch-plane angular acceleration, or more to the point the INSTANTANEOUS pitch-plane angular acceleration. Now a clever chap called Newton once showed that in any constant mass situation the acceleration of an object was dependant solely on the mass of the object and the sizes of the forces applied to it. The same is just as true for angular accelerations, except that we substitute "moments of inertia" for mass and use the "moments" of the forces as any attentive GCSE science pupil will be able to tell you. You will note that nothing has made reference to the "angular stability" of the object, because it's irrelevant and so we have just demonstrated that instability does NOT increase agility (QED).

      Fine, so why DO we bother with all this negative-stability-and-fly-by-wire cockamamie? After all, it would be so much simpler, cheaper and more reliable to simply connect a conventional aircraft hydraulic system (or even a pushrod) between the stick and the control surfaces! The answer is simple - it reduces the supersonic fuel consumption.

      [What? Where did that come from? What's this guy been smoking!? I mean one minute I was dozing through a bit about stability and the next thing I know you're blathering on about fuel consumption. How can these be related?? - Ed].

      To understand this we need to briefly look at another bit of aerodynamics, the concept of "Trim Drag". We all know that with a stable aeroplane you place the CG in front of the "centre of pressure" (I'd prefer to use "Neutral Point" but let's keep it simple) which makes the aeroplane pitch downwards. We oppose this by having a tailplane to push the tail down or a foreplane to lift the nose up and voila! We have a stable aeroplane. The actual amount of effort the tailplane/foreplane has to exert to do this depends on how far the CG is from the centre of pressure, and we call this the "Static Margin". Those who have paid a bit of attention, rather than chatting up the totty at the back, will also know that the act of generating lift inherently generates drag.

  8. Don't worry, long flights will be around a while by CPUgrind · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To bad all the major airlines don't want faster planes because of the effect it would have on the schedules of flights. Faster planes have been available for years and it still takes about 4 hours between NY and LA on commercial flights. Not to mention the sonic boom of faster than sound travel not being allowed (one of the reasons the Concorde was never used across the US).

  9. Environmental Issues? by Zo0ok · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What fuels are we supposed to use for civil flight in 50 years?

    Today, the commersial airlines do not pay any environmental fees whatsoever on their fuel (correct me if I am wrong - I would like to be).

    The energy cost for travel by flight is much higher than for other transport methods.

    I guess that especially super/hyper-sonic flight will not be considered before the environmental issues (noise, not the least) are completely resolved.

    In 50 years, I hope we have airplanes fueled by hydrogen produced in nuclear facilities.

    1. Re:Environmental Issues? by JuliusO · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're right, airplanes need to be more ecologicaly friendly. However, your statment that the energy cost for travel by flight is higher than for other transpor methods is not true. A Cesna airlpane can get between 15 and 30 miles to the gallon. A jet when you devide the the fuel consumption by the number of people being carried isn't bad either. They are similar in efficiency to the cars we drive. As for making hydrogen by nuclear means, why do people always bring up nuclear power. There is no safe way to dispose of the waste yet and this is unlikely to come anytime soon. Until then, it's just a time bomb until there are serious environmental issues from radioactive waste that leaks into our water supply.

    2. Re:Environmental Issues? by Senor_Pedo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the energy cost for travel by flight is really no higher than for other transport methods. Consider a quick calculation:

      A 747-400 has a range of about 8400 miles, and a fuel capacity of about 57,000 gallons. Multiply that by 410 seats, you get around 60 mpg per passenger. And Boeing's new 7E7 "Dreaminer" is touting much higher efficiency than any of their previous jets. Airbus is doing well too, with the new A380 and Rolls Royce Trent 900 engines. Fuel capacity of 82,000 gallons, range of 8000 miles, 555 seats. Thats around 55 mpg per passenger.

      So those numbers are way better than the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards in the US, currently 20.6 mpg I believe, not including the SUV's buzzing around the suburbs that aren't subject to those rules.

      Hydrogen fuel cells would be great, but they're nowhere near production status for commercial transport flight.

  10. 2hrs...impressive!! by joggle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Considering it takes about 90 minutes to orbit the earth at LEO (or 45 min to go 'anywhere'), getting anywhere in 2hrs is very impressive. I wonder if it flies inverted so that its lift prevents it from entering orbit.

    1. Re:2hrs...impressive!! by hedgehogbrains · · Score: 2, Informative

      The impression of weightlessness has got nothing to do with altitude. Gravitional force remains strong in low Earth orbit. The reason orbiting astronauts feel feel weightless is because they are effectively 'falling' in the same trajectory as their craft. There are no attractive forces between the craft and the passenger. The same would apply for a craft at 200,000 ft if air friction were negligble.

  11. Laptop makers will finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    HyperSoar which would fly from Los Angeles to New York in 35 minutes.

    ...be able to claim coast-to-coast on one battery.

    *coast-to-coast claim only valid when flying at over 5 times the speed of sound.

  12. 35 minutes to LA from NY!!! by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Insightful

    wow, I think that if this Plane is developed, we may see the beginning of cross country commutes every day, much like we see train commuters in Connecticut.

    "honey, Im gonna be late for work!!! my Editor at the LA Times sad that if I was 5 minutes late again that I would be fired!!"

    "ok, just make sure you get to the subway on time this time so you can catch the 6 o' clock train to JFK"

    weird.

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  13. Hub-n-Spoke vs. Point-to-Point by G4from128k · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Although the article did a good job of discussing flight technology, they did not say enough on the market forces that might drive different scenarios. Its not clear whether Boeing's vision of direct point-to-point travel or Airbus's visions of mass-transit hub-and-spoke will be the future of air travel. On the one hand, the decline in business travel hurts the economics of offering quick direct flights to everywhere while new technologies like free flight aid point-to-point travel. On the other hand, its not clear whether people will tolerate multiple connections and long boarding processes required for larger aircraft like the A380.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  14. Re:Flight sick? by Jesrad · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, it would mean:
    - strong acceleration during take-off and climb
    - low gravity during most of the flight, oscillating between 0.2 to 0.8 g, or maybe an alternation of weightlessness and 1g gravity. I'm sure most tourists would appreciate a free fall experience as a bonus ;)
    - strong deceleration during the whole approach

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  15. UAV vs Airline piolts by atherton2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    commercial airlines have an accident rate of 0.06 crashes per million hours of flying whereas the Northrop Grumman Global Hawk UAV used by the US military has 1600 crashes per million hours of flying. This shows that the UAVs have a long way to go before we can trust our lives to this tecnology.

    1. Re:UAV vs Airline piolts by atherton2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is surely influenced by those factors, but I don't think it account for all of the diffrence. Also what would happen to a commercial UAV if its satalite uplink is lost? Would it crash, would an emergency piolt have to be onboard to take over?

    2. Re:UAV vs Airline piolts by f97tosc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Commercial airlines have an accident rate of 0.06 crashes per million hours of flying whereas the Northrop Grumman Global Hawk UAV used by the US military has 1600 crashes per million hours of flying

      This is not a fair comparison. Military UAVs fly around in hostile areas, and what is more they are basically designed and priced to be expendible. Also keep in mind that today's passenger planes are fully capable of flying and landing on auto-pilot.

      I think we will get pilotless flights eventually, but it may take 50 years.

      1. Military transports will be first. There are already discussions about this; it would be a realitvely simple matter to modify the plane - the tricky part is negotiating rights for flying through airspace and landing at international airports.

      2. If the military is doing it, why shouldn't commercial freight transports like FedEx be allowed?

      3. When this has been working for a number of years - it will be tempting to let a few peole ride along. The military may get permission to let someone sit in on urgent matters. Freight flights will follow.

      4. Eventually, some airline will get the permission to fly pilotless passenger lines. Most travellers will be skeptical at first, but as time passes and it becomes clear that the pilotless flights are both safer and cheaper - most people will be persuaded...

      Tor

  16. 35 min. NY to LA passenger flights? Keep dreaming! by phillymjs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When they were designing the SR-71, the Skunk Works had a hell of a time designing the life support systems for the pilot-- and that's just one guy in a space suit. At Mach 3, the heat generated by air friction is sufficient that if the cockpit air conditioning system fails, he's in deep shit. If you're reading this and you think in your lifetime you're going to see passengers flying in casual clothes more than three times faster than the SR-71, you'd better think again.

    Even if it does become technically feasible, so few people will be able to afford it that it would be completely impractical to try to build a passenger transportation business around it.

    ~Philly

  17. Amusing aside in the article by richg74 · · Score: 2, Funny
    It may be my weird sense of humour, but I liked this joke quoted in the article:

    There is a joke in the airline industry that the future crew of an airliner will consist of a pilot and a dog. The pilot's job is to watch all the computers, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he tries to touch anything.

    /Rich

  18. Re:Mach 5? by Chairboy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Remarkably bad math. Escape velocity is closer to Mach 25.

    Oh, and flying upside down doesn't have a magical affect on whether or not you escape or not.

  19. Aerospace analysts are always too optimistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As an aerospace engineer, I'm always surprised about how many things we are supposed to achieve in the next so-many-years.

    People, believe me: It is _not_ going to happen. Period.

    Why not?

    Well first of all, aerospace as an industry is extremely conservative. Despite it's high-tech image, the facts (and my experience) show differently. Look at the shape of aircrafts for example: Essentially unchanged since the 1930s. The fuselage-wing-tail concept is still the most popular, and all the research on blended wings, canards, double-fuselage, and other stuff people have made up, have not changed a thing (try to find the book by E. Torenbeek, you'll be amazed about how rich a phantasy some people have). That is because it simply is by far the most efficient concept: it's easy to stabilize, and you can put lots of people in it. Blended wings, for example, turn out to be too thin for people to fit in for, say, an aircraft for 100 people. Also, safety is easlier to achieve, and there's lots of room for cargo/luggage and fuel. Boeing's SST and Sonic Cruiser, and even the Concorde, did not fail without a reason. The A380, the "next generation aircraft", still has the same basic design as a DC-3 had 60 years ago. Another example is materials: Aluminum is still the primary construction material. It is _very_ slowly being replaced with composites and laminates (carbon, glass fibre/epoxy, GLARE). Aircraft manufactures can't sell an aircraft until it is absolutely proven that the new aircraft is safe and maintainable and has cheap Direct Operating Costs. So they all play safe and go with trusted concepts/materials. The A380 took about US$15_billion_ to develop. You don't go gable with such amounts. You play safe.

    Then there's an economic reason. Profits for airliners are extremely low: 3-5% is not unusual. In fact, very few airlines have made a net profit over the past two decades. In the USA, airlines go bankrupt every 10 years, in Europe they would not survive without government support. Investing in airlines is high risk. This automatically means that investments in aircraft manufacturers is also quite risky. So actual research development of new technologies in the aerospace industry are very low, and usually government-sponsored, related to military applications, or conducted in universities or research institures. The "time to market" of any new technology in the aerospace industry has been estimated to be about 35 years.

    This is already too long a story, I could go on for pages. But realy, this kind of views on the future just makes me laugh my pants off.

    1. Re:Aerospace analysts are always too optimistic by DumbSwede · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I have to agree to a large degree with this poster. Aviation followed a very exciting first 70 years, very similar to what we are now see in the personal computer industry. The last thirty have shown it to be a fairly mature technology. The 747 was designed in the late 60's and is nowhere near the end of its life cycle. The Airbus 380 has not yet arrived, and will still have to prove its reliability and economy of operation. Even so, the 380 has a familiar look, and while large, is hardly radical. The fasted plane ever publically acknowledged, the SR-71 blackbird, was also designed in the 60's.

      Security and speed of boarding become more important in the airline equation than ever before. Marginal increases in speed, do little to improve the overall perception of the flying experience. Radical changes in speed, while exciting to contemplate, will require decades of testing before being considered safe enough for commercial adoption.

      Pilotless craft might make sense for small planes where the pilot's pay is a huge fraction of the total transportation cost, but will take much longer to be adopted in 200+ passenger craft, even if the pilot is largely redundant.

      That all said, Flying Wings is where I see the future of flight going. That and computer assisted small jump craft of various types. See this recent Popular Science article on flight. There is an expression in military circles when it come to evaluating new aircraft: "looks right, flies right." Looking at the envisioned commercial passenger flying wing concepts in the Popular Science article, one can't help but feel this aircraft has the right shape. Kudos also to whomever created the pictures in the magazine, because at first look, you would swear these beautiful behemoths are already lifting off from tarmacs in Tokyo.

      Rather than obsess on airspeed, I think our focus should be on making the trip to the airport fast and easy, and of course the boarding fast and easy. Imaging a airport where it was more like a trip to the local cineplex. You park your car close to the terminal minutes before your flight. The car is moved inexpensively for you to a storage lot (rather than park in the hinter lands and wait for a bus). Or better yet, you have had a quick comfortable ride (mag-lift or not) from a city center, directly to your terminal. You are a frequent traveler, so you have undergone a rigorous pre-screening procedure once a year, and can now be biometrically scanned in quickly for a hassle free entry. Like first class seating, biometric priority boarding could be a real money maker for the airlines. Once on board the flying wing, space is not as much a factor as in tube based airplane designs. Weight is the limiting criteria on the 800-1500 seat flying city, not space, so everyone has space to stretch out, and get comfortable. Even reclining to a complete sleep position, to just sleep through a long trip, very much like the golden age of rail. Personal video screens for each passenger will be considered a must, and you will have a screening choice of dozens of first run movies at a cost similar to seeing it in the theater. Your screen will also allow web-browsing, and by the time you update your journal on /. , and post a few comments, it's time to deplane.

      Making airplane fuels more environmentally friendly should also be a priority this century. A lot of fuel is used on take off, so how about mag catapult launch? Perhaps planes that use microwave beam power; using conventional fuels only to get airborne, or for emergencies. The rest of the trip a series of boasts from microwave beam boast areas. Ah, but I'm getting decades ahead of myself, and the crystal ball always grows murky 10+ years out.

  20. Travel time by spectrokid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    L.A city centre -> L.A airport : 50 mins
    L.A. ->Tokyo : 30 mins
    Tokyo airport -> Tokyo city centre: 1:20h

    --

    10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then

    1. Re:Travel time by netringer · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You left out "please be sure to arrive at least two hours before your scheduled flight due to security procedures."

      That doorstep-to-doorstep time is EXACTLY why Dr. Bruce Holmesof NASA's AGATE research program has predicted the end of hub and spoke airline system and the enpowerment of small aircraft with new tehnologies like "highways in the sky." http://lava.larc.nasa.gov/BROWSE/agate.html

      They found that SLOWER planes do much better on flights of 600 miles or less. The current airline system wins for longer trips like coast-to-coast.

      My ancient plane goes only 150MPH, but I can be in the on my way in an hour. I will be 150 miles closer to the destination by the time the airliner leaves the gate.

      The research suggests that planes can be made safer and easier to fly and require shorter runways, so communities will be encouraged to BUILD airports nearer city centers The Air traffic system would be automated so each plane would "own" a smalller piece of airspace around it and be warned if another aircraft is nearby.

      --
      Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
  21. Saving time also means saving fuel by Jesrad · · Score: 4, Informative

    Before someone posts about how rockets are fuel-inefficient compared to other engines, I'd like to point out that it mostly depends on the cruise speed of the aircraft.

    If the plane completes the flight in ten times less time than a conventional subsonic plane, then its engines are burning fuel for ten times less time as well.

    Modern high-bypass turbofan engines have a specific fuel consumption (SFC) rate around 0.5 lb of fuel per lb of thrust per hour. Current liquid fuel rockets' SFC is around 10, and solid / hybrid rockets' SFC is around 5. But the concept of "pound of thrust" evolves with speed: for example, a reciprocating engine with a propeller will give you much more (approximately four times as much) pounds of thrust than the number of HP the engine develops, _at low speeds_. At 375 mph, you get one pound of thrust per HP. And beyond, you get much less. That's why high subsonic planes use turbofans and the slower planes still use propellers.

    At supersonic speeds the fuel consumption per distance covered of a turbofan engine can grow as high as 3+, but that of a rocket engine does not grow with speed, so there's a given speed beyond which rockets are more efficient than turbofans.

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  22. Freight UAVs by atherton2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I could see UAVs being used for freight long before the public will accept it for holiday flights. Also the piolts are concerned with the collision avoidance abilites of UAVs. This may mean that in the next few years we may see plans for UAV only airports near our lager cities. For this to become anywhere near reality the problems of overcrowded airlanes and over worked air-traffic control staff, need to be resolved. For tis 'free flight' needs to be adopted, it allows piolts to plot their own flight plans and then when airborne onboard computers 'project' a 300km (30 sec)'bubble' around each aircraft, and automatically resolve incursions into the 'bubble'. This method allows more direct and efficent routes to be taken by aircraft and frees up large regions of currently unused airspace. Boeing is backing this move and is also taking an intrest in personal air transport. Yes, that means a flying car.

  23. Science Friday - NPR by TimeOut42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    This article sounds just like a show that was on NPR the other day http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/2003/Dec/hour2_ 121203.html

    They had 'experts' talking about why supersonic commercial flight isn't hot, explains where our personal aircraft are at, sub orbital flights, etc.

    It was an interesting listen!

    Sean

  24. You are right by penguinoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I missed a zero, sorry. However, I will argue your second point

    Flying right side up does prevent you from falling down to earth, and flying upside down should provide downward thrust (unless you change the angle of attack of the wings). So it should allow you to go at faster than the escape velocity.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  25. RTFA by InfiniteWisdom · · Score: 2, Informative

    RTFA:The g forces would vary between 1.5g and weightlessness

  26. Re:35 min. NY to LA passenger flights? Keep dreami by twiddlingbits · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Technology aside (assume it will exist) the economics are going to be tough. The Concorde went under because no one wanted to pay that kind of transatlantic fare, which meant the plane was always operating in the red. Any new technology such as a 35 Min NY-LA plane would need tends to be very expensive at first, so ticket prices would be sky high. Not to mention getting something like that FAA certified to carry passengets (so it and they can be insured) would be a nightmare and very expensive. With high-speed Internet access so cheap, you can hold a LOT of video-meetings for the price of one plane ticket. Then if you really need to go in person to close the deal, you take the lowest cost flight. In fact, most employers require you take the lowest cost flight unless it would make you arrive too late. It would be very hard to justify a (guessing here) $25,000 ticket just to save 4 hours time unless someone made $6,000/hr. I can see cases where it would pay but they are not prevalent enough to subsidize the operational costs. One positive aspect is that donor organs could be shipped anywhere for transplant, versus some limits now due to flight times. That might be worth $25,000!! Of course, a Government could give the firm an operating subsidy which would help prices to be lower. If you were looking at it strictly as a free market venture you likely wouldn't make it.

  27. Re:Mach 5? by jfmiller · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Could we all spesify weather our mach numbers are at sea level or 100,000 feet or whatever, the speed of sound changes as altitude increases.

    --
    Strive to make your client happy, not necessarly give them what they ask for
  28. Why we don't have rocket planes by Damiano · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Strangely enough we've been seeing similar claims for the last 50 years. Even back in the 50's, magazines such as Popular Science were informing us that "soon" we'd have rocket planes that will take us anywhere in the world in X hours (where X is very small).

    Why don't we have them yet then?

    Cost. Most people want to fly as cheaply as possible and aren't willing to spend an extra grand in exchange for shaving three hours off their travel time.

    In addition, unlike the 50's, business people no longer need to travel everywhere to cut deals. With the advent of email, teleconferening, etc. they don't have to.

    Something we geeks need to remember is that just because we can invent a cool new technology doesn't mean there will be any drive to bring it to market.

    Damianio

  29. OT: Sick Bags by MyHair · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Speaking of sick bags, they used to have one in every seat back. On my last flight I realized I haven't seen a sick back in a long time, and I fly several times a year, so I rooted around the seatback pockets in front of me and found no sick bags.

    How do they handle sick bag situations now?

    Then again, in my many many flights I have never seen anyone use a sick bag.

  30. History of Flight by JuggleGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Lets not forget the history of flight.

    On Dec 17th, 1903, the Wright Brothers made history. Flight has come a long way in 100 years.

  31. Re:Pilotless Planes? by Admiral+Burrito · · Score: 2, Funny

    There doesn't seem to be any R&D towards developing unmanned targets so I'm sure there will be plenty of employment opportunities there. And with GWB as president I'm sure there will be plenty of growth in that field.

  32. Personal flying is fun and getting better by dloyer · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Change takes a long time for airplanes. A small airplane may last more than 30 years and fly just as fast and as far as a new airplane.

    Wings and engines have not changed much in 50 years.

    But... New electronics are finding their way into small planes that anyone can learn to fly.

    Now GPS makes it hard to get lost. New electronic flight displays are replacing 50 year old "steam gauge" instruments.

    Sooner or later, someone will perfect cheap and reliable fly by wire controls that will make small aircraft much simpler to fly and reduce training time and improve safety.

    Today, personal flying is a fun way to travel. Just yesterday was a beautiful, sunny day. I flew up to New Hampshire just to enjoy the view.

    On warm days, my wife likes to fly with me down to Martha's Vineyard, a small island off the coast of Massachusetts where we can land on a grass strip 50 feet from the beach. When the sun goes down, we just get back in the plane and fly home.

    Flying is a very old dream. Anyone can learn to fly, but be warned, once you start, it is very addictive! Flying is not just a way to get from here to there. It is a lot of fun all by itself.

  33. hypersoar by cybercuzco · · Score: 2, Informative

    Im currently doing my masters project on the feasibility of the hypersoar concept. In a nutshell, its possible, but with some caveats. One of the main reasons you want to do a periodic trajectory is to reduce drag and heating of the aircraft. If you stay at a constant altitude, all that heat builds up and eventually melts your plane. If you skip out of the atmosphere the heat should radiate to space, reducing your total heat load. The problem comes when you come back in. You go deeper into the atmosphere at a higher temperature than you would at a constant altitute. Ultimately your total heat load is lower, but your maximum temperature is higher by about 20% (in degrees K) which is enough to require some more exotic materials. The other thing is that you require alot of lift for pulling out of the dive at the bottom of your trajectory. So you need a high L/D ratio, which for a hypersonic vehicle is about 4. So you need wings and structure to hold the wings etc. Thirdly, you need an engine with enough thrust to overcome the drag at the bottom of the dive. If your engine isnt pushing harder than the air is pushing back, you just slow down and fall to earth. If its not pushing hard enough to bring you back to your initial velocity, you cant go very far. For my preliminary vehicle design I found that a vechile of ~500 tons with a L/D of 4 needs a thrust of about 2g's or about a million newtons If your vehicle is too light, it cant push far enough into the atmosphere to generate thrust (im using an airbreathing engine) and you crash. If its too heavy you go in to far and burn up. There is a specific range of weights and engine on-off conditions that are required for a successful trajectory. I think Ive got it worked out, but I need to do some more analysis over winter break

    --

  34. Planes, trains, and automobiles. by Latent+Heat · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The auto/airplane fuel economy comparisons have some variables. I can pretty much get 31 MPG highway cruising in my Ford Taurus while a packed 747 can get 60 seat-MPG. But if it is my wife and I, we are getting better than 60 person-MPG in the Taurus.

    The airplane has some interesting scaling laws. The 747, say, gets 60 seat-MPG (you probably have to look at some actual data rather than max range data because max range has reserve for headwinds, diversion to alternate airport, but the 60 seat-MPG is not far from the mark). I am guessing, but I would say a 757 may get close to 100 seat-MPG New York-LA (the 757 is a lighter plane which is lighter per passenger, carries less fuel than a trans Pacific flight, the PW 2037 is a really efficient engine). But if you operate the 757, say Minneapolis to Detroit, I would bet the fuel mileage may drop to 40-50 seat MPG because of the energy cost of climbing to cruising altitude, low-and-slow flight in the landing pattern.

    From reading a trucking magazine at a truck stop, I learned that an 18-wheeler with good aerodynamic fairings and a late-model Diesel engine gets about 6 miles per gallon. If you figure 8 miles per gallon for a bus, an intercity bus can give over 300 seat-MPG. As for the train, I am willing to guess that for a transcontinental train like the Chicago-Seattle Empire Builder, what with sleeping and dining cars, U.S. standards that passenger cars be built like tanks to withstand derailments (European passenger cars are much lighter), and all of the mountain passes on the western routes, the train is probably little different than the airplane and at the 50-60 seat-MPG range.

    These Diesel commuter trains where they have one locomotive pulling 6 or 7 100-passenger double-decker cars may get something in the 500-600 seat-MPG. But if you go for acceleration and frequent stops such as a subway train, or if you go for high speed, I bet your seat-MPG start working their way back to the car and airplane range.

    Interesting that you should mention high-speed rail. Part of what makes my Taurus get 31 highway MPG is that I pretty much stick to 65 MPH. All those dudes passing me doing 75 or 80 are probably getting more like 25 MPG or less. I read that the highly-streamlined but quite fast TGV's are maybe a factor of 2 better than air - I am guessing maybe about 100 seat-MPG. And that 300 MPH Japanese maglev may be comparable to air, perhaps in the 40-50 seat-MPG range.

    If you start going fast, think of going at airplane speed but doing it at ground level where the air is thicker. Part of how jets get their efficiency is that they fly high -- the thin air reduces the power on their turbine engines without the losses of throttling, and the thin air allows them to go fast without too much drag. They have to pay for that efficiency with a long climb to cruising altitude. Coupled with large-long range planes being heavier, there is probably a sweet spot in efficiency for perhaps a 1500-3000 mile trip.

  35. "Free Flight" not a panacea by phliar · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ... but for this to be widely adopted 'free flight' must first exist. This allows piolts to plot there own jouneys, cutting distances and utlising more airspace.
    It does, eh? I'm a little skeptical -- what do you think the difference between a "direct" routing and an old-fashioned flight on airways is? We're talking about 2-3% (borrow some charts from a pilot friend so you can see the routes that exist). "Airspace" utlization is a red herring -- collisions never happen enroute, only at takeoffs and landings.

    The problem is low-altitude (approach/departure) airspace around large airports, most large airports today are near capacity. (IFR traffic, which all airline traffic is.) Free flight doesn't buy you anything for approach/departure, which is where all the delays and inefficiencies are.

    You might say the advantage of "free flight" is to the pilot -- less pesky knob-twiddling as you go from segment to segment. But the computer is flying the airplane enroute regardless of whether or not they're going direct or by a published route -- the flight computers know all the routes and will fly them all automatically. A "free flight" system has to know about traffic so it can tell the autopilot to take evasive action. That stuff is really, really expensive. (Check out how much TCAS-II systems cost.) How much longer before recreational and research aviation disappears? It's already ridiculously expensive to fly. The airlines are using this as a gambit to "own the airspace" -- make other uses of aviation prohibitively expensive so it's just airline and military flying. First transponders, then Mode C, then Mode S, and now TCAS for "free flight." (Yes, this is a rant -- but it's all true.)

    --
    Unlimited growth == Cancer.
  36. John F. Kennedy Jr. by Latent+Heat · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I looked into private aviation as transportation, and for anyone thinking about it, buy yourself the plushest luxury car (Lexus, Mercedes), and you will end up getting to your destinations much safer, not that much slower, and will on a life-cycle basis end up spending much less money. Interesting you mention Martha's Vineyard -- the safety issue and JFK Jr. comes to mind.

    There was a Golden Age of private aviation -- perhaps the mid 1960's, when a Piper or a Cessna was competitive with a luxury car. What has happened since then is that liability insurance has driven the light plane manufacturers into the ground and priced light planes out of the market.

    We can all get mad at lawyers and call for tort reform and exemptions for plane manufacturers. But flying a light plane is a much riskier activity than driving a car, and the high liability insurance making planes really expensive is society's way of saying that we place a high value on human life, or at least on human life lost in transportation accidents, and the legal system coupled to the market system has perhaps made the correct decision in trying to get people to drive rather than fly themselves.

    You mention the "steam gauges" and the need for a glass cockpit in a light plane. The "steam gauges" are there because they are simple and reliable -- and perhaps safer unless there is an enormous breakthrough in light plane avionics.

    The engine controls are very primitive and manual: throttle, mixture control, and in some cases, propeller speed: not much more sophisticated than a lawn mower. If you have a turbo engine, you have manual control over boost pressure and have to follow rules for both advancing and retarding the throttle so as to not ruin the engine. In the 1980's there as some attempt at modernization: Porsche came out with an engine with electronic controls and "single-lever power control." But I don't know if this changed the general market trend that light plane manufacturers went out of business or went high-end (half-million dollar plus airplanes), and the only affordable planes are the ones stamped "Experimental" (i.e. I built it myself so I can't sue anybody).

  37. Re:Flight sick? by Simonetta · · Score: 2, Insightful


    The social effect of the hyper-sonic passenger aircraft was written about by Whitley Streibler in his book "Nature's End" in 1986.

    In it he describes aircraft that can get you from L.A. to India in three hours but punch holes in the local ozone layer when they leave the atmosphere. These holes cause unfiltered sunlight to shine through tiny portals onto the earth.

    In his book he describes whole blocks of children playing outside getting severely sunburned to the point of third-degree burns requiring hospitalization when one of these TAV (trans-atmospheric vehicle) windows passes over a schoolyard with kids playing at recess (an American term for the period when young children in school are allowed outside to run around).

    He describes hundreds of mothers demonstrating at airports in the 2020's with pictures of their burned children begging people not to use hypersonic air travel because their pleas and lawsuits against hypersonic aircraft are ignored by the authorities.

    An example of the unintended consequences that often arise when the full environmental effects of disruptive technology are not taken into account by corporate engineers. This is what science fiction is best at.