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Tech Titans Prepare to Battle Over Next DVD Format
securitas writes "The New York Times Technology has an excellent feature by Ken Belson about the coming battle over the next-generation DVD format that consumer electronics and technology giants are already preparing for. The article covers the (high-definition) HD DVD group, led by Toshiba and NEC, and the Blu-ray Group, led by Sony and Matsushita (Panasonic/JVC). Mass production is expected to begin in 2005, but both sides are expected to show prototypes and aggresively pursue partners at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas next week. Add to the mix a nine-company Chinese faction that says it will develop its own DVD format because - fearing their technology could be used by Chinese rivals - the Japanese manufacturers haven't shared much information, even within the DVD Forum. Finally, Disney, Microsoft, IBM and Intel have yet to weigh in. The worst thing that could happen would be another Betamax/VHS-type war. In that case, 'Everyone is a loser, particularly Hollywood studios, the retailer community and, most importantly, the consumer,' says Warren N. Lieberfarb, developer of the original DVD format."
I must admit I'm rooting for the Chinese faction. I want a digital standard that's NOT written by the content owners. If they can make a next-gen DVD that's cheap and recordable, and it gets into enough homes, then maybe it will be to the studios' advantage to release content for it, even if they can't have complete control over it.
Behold the riant ape! Beware, his crooked thumbs!
I hear the Blu-Ray group is appearing at the Bellagio next year!
If the new DVD formats being recommended aren't as 'open', and do not present a sizeable improvement over the current resolution of existing DVDs, I don't think that one conglomerate will be able to 'force' the market place into accepting a new tech.
Lucas and Speilberg weren't able to make their DVD alternative fly, and given their back catalogue of movies held in reserve, they had strong leverage over the marketplace.
Given that DVDs have an indefinite shelf life (okay, greater than 20 years) and better than broadcast resolution , I don't think people will see a compelling reason to upgrade. Maybe when HDTV becomes ubiquitous, but even then a really good DVD rig comes close to the HD broadcasts I've seen.
Let the industry duke it out...I won't need to worry for ~ 10 years.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
Whatever format I buy, it will turn out to be the betamax format.
-------- In Soviet Russia, "Soviet Russia" sigs hate Slashdot.
For those unfamiliar with the techs, the spec set forth by Toshiba/Nec is backward compatible with the now current tech. The blu-ray is not backwards compatible.
I would like see the next-gen players be able to play both disks, I have ALOT! I also happen to favor Toshiba they make one of the better players out there for picture/sound.
Instead of choosing a format for the discs, we all agree on a common method of storing the data instead of the medium so I can plug my XYZ Toilet Paper Tube Reader into my computer and read off the 10 gigs of data it holds with the same codec as I use for that latest game release on the 'Finger in the Nose' reader?
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
Believe it or not, you can draw attention to something by mentioning it first _or_ last. Language can be subtle that way.
Isn't this why organizations with a commercial interest shouldn't be involved in deciding upon standards? Because they will obviously want to get what they want, and there's usually more than one will involved. It isn't a constructive battle for a format either, and the best format isn't necessarily victorious.
:-P
I wonder what the purpose of the DVD Forum was again?
1. To establish a single format for each DVD application product, including revisions, improvements and enhancements for the benefit of consumers and users
2. To promote broad acceptance of DVD products on a worldwide basis, including the entertainment, consumer electronics and IT industries as well as the general public.
Ooh, I see...
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
I'd heard about Fluorescent Multilayer Discs years ago, but what's happened to them since? They were supposed to hold almost 20 times as much data as a 4.7GB DVD. So, where are they?
Not that I really want a new format or anything. I just think FMDs are cool. DVDs are a-ok for me, and I just bought a DVD burner (which supports all the damned various formats), so why are they making something new, again. Can we just have some media technology that lasts for more than 10 years?
Gabriel Ricard
"Your[e] OLD player will still work." [Flames deleted]
My first thought was similar to this, but I quickly thought better of it.
1) Maybe he could sell his old player on ebay and reduce his investment if only the new player is compatible.
2) Not everyone has the room to keep two players in service.
3) The old player will crap out at some point. The point is that he will have to maintain two players in service.
Will we see that kind of cooperation again? Probably not. There's too much incentive to play dirty, after the massive success of DVD.
FWIW the book also contains far, far more tech background on the DVD format, MPEG-4, visual theory, etc. than anybody except Slashdotters will ever want to absorb.
Everyone is a loser, particularly Hollywood studios, the retailer community and, most importantly, the consumer,
The consumer has already lost when he's called a consumer instead of a citizen. This mindset speaks volumes.
Everyone is a loser ass the article said, especially the studios. Not only do they have to pay royalties to both factions but they bare the cost of supporting two format (3 if you add the chines). I mean, they'll be looking at having three difference partners producing different types of media disks instead of one.
In reality the big problem is the fact that all these factions want to make money on royalties so they have not incentive to work together. All these companies see is their bottom line and they definitely want their format adopted. I really would love to see royalty free DVDs and it seems the Chinese want the same thing to. If I was a studio executive or a some manufacturer I'd support the Chinese.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
I know there's more to DVDs than movies, but face it, the #1 use of DVDs are for movies.
First of all, make DTS-ES a standard. The only reason why movies that include DTS soundtracks also include Dolby Digital sountrack is because DTS is not standard. DTS is better than DD, so let's make it standard and forget about DD for movies. (audio commentaries should still be in DD though)
Second, make sure there's a lot of storage, cause every movie has to be encoded at least in 1080P (no, not 1080i) and mpeg4. Make sure the standard has room to grow and accept higher-resolution, while making sure players can keep up with every resolutions. The stream also has to include 4:3 fullscreen cropping coordinates so we can stop having fullscreen editions DVDs for folks that watch their DVDs on 4:3 telivisions.
Lastly, forget about the Internet-enabled DVDs and players. I want my content ON THE DISC, not on some remote server.
It's inevitable that this will lead to a standardized format, but there will be losers on all sides, most notably the consumers. I'm not thinking of CSS-cracking, dvd-ripping type stuff but the draconian measures that are already in place with the current technology. (Actually, I'm not at allconcerned with "backing up" my DVDs and I'm not interested in starting that argument here, fair use or not. I'm sure someone else will be more than willing to pick up that gauntlet).
There are a couple of things here that concern me. First, no doubt the manufacturers have learned quite a few lessons since the introduction of the DVD format years ago. Region coding makes money but only if you can prevent regionless players, copy protection makes money but only if you can prevent its circumvention, and adverts make money but only if you can prevent the consumer from circumventing them. I have every bit of confidence that, whatever the prevailing format, there will be some convoluted region and encryption scheme and the remote controls for the players won't have a fast-forward button. However, not all will be lost. I'm sure that they will leave the Rewind button intact so that you can watch the adverts over and over again.
On second thought, I have to disagree with the parent poster. I hope that this doesn't lead to a standardized format. Instead, here's hoping that it drags these morons and their cyclical attempts to introduce a new technology platform every 10 years so as to force us to continue replacing our copies of movies with the latest and greatest versions right into the firey abyss from whence they originated. Is anyone actually buying DVD-A or SCD?
The thing that concerns me the most, tho, is the possibilitiy that the movie companies will force the adoption of the newer formats by refusing to release newer or higher-profile titles. And to stave off the inevitable VHS-to-DVD analogies, DVD was a quantum leap over VHS in terms of quality and content. What is being proposed here is merely an evolution, and a small one at that.
What benefit will the next generation of DVD offer to consumers? HDTV? Please, this is another farce being shoved down the collective throats of Americans (and other countries?). The very idea that a society is going to be mandated to replace their televisions is absolutely insane. Again, what benefit does this offer to the consumer by making it mandatory? Now, compare that benefit to how it benefits the entertainment industry. What does the consumer gain by the introduction of the "copy bit"?
I've probably gone horribly off-track with this post so I'll sum it up with this: the parent post is not a troll.
Ryosen
One man's "Troll, +1" is another man's "Insightful, +1".
Hollywood is pushing both technical groups to come up with new security measures to protect their movies. Neither group has developed a prototype that satisfies the movie industry - a major impediment to a commercial launch.
*sigh* Here we go again, for another round of macrovision, region coding and suchlike rubbish. I confidently predict(1) that the new measures will not make any difference to large-scale pirates or warez d00ds, but will make everyone else's life difficult.
1): What do I know about it? not much.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
Gawd, yes. It pisses me off no end that I have to wait 30-60 seconds after loading a DVD just to get to the main menu - which is usually also locked so I have to watch a stupid video sequence before I can finally select 'Play'.
Is it so unreasonable to want to load a DVD and watch the damn movie? Seriously, if there was a DVD player out there that advertised on the box "No function lockouts", I'd pay an extra $50 just for that.
>If I was a studio executive or a some manufacturer I'd support the Chinese.
Unless Chinese can offer good copyright protection scheme "studio executive" won't do that.
Unfortunately, they don't think it's in the best interests. Now, to me, that's plain idiotic because leaving aside any stuff about just pressing one DVD (which isn't actually that practical as someone else points out - you'd want slightly different DVDs for different markets because of language and censorship differences), there's the not-insignificant issue that region encoding promotes piracy: because someone can't get the movie they want, or version of the movie they want, in their region, they're more likely to get a pirate copy that's region-free.
But MPAA, etc, members have never been terribly bright on the issue. Given the choice between screwing their own customers, and reducing piracy, they'd rather go for the former.
My family sent me a BBC DVD of "Have I got News for You" this Christmas, which I watched on my de-regioned PowerBook. I'm still trying to work out the logic of region encoding it - this is a disc of no interest whatsoever to people outside of Britain other than ex-pats, and ex-pats are not a large enough market to make it remotely likely a foreign publisher would see any value in buying their region's rights. So instead of the BBC making money from ex-pat sales, they're basicly ensuring that, beyond a few technically orientated people like me, nobody will be able to watch the DVD who wasn't able to see it on TV in the first place.
Mindless. Utterly stunningly mindless.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Will be something like this:
- A more technologically advanced format (and more expensive). I deem this to be Blu-Ray since the discs need casing and it needs a dual head assembly for compatability.
Versus
- A less technologically advanced standard (but less expensive). This would probably be HD-DVD.
You've seen this movie before haven't you? I know I have. Guess who usually wins? I would bet on HD-DVD at this point. Blu-Ray might find a niche in data backups and the like however.
At any rate, you Slashdotters out there, for one reason or another, will probably champion one of these formats. It's kind of like that +R/-R DVD argument (tastes great/less filling), except that there are far less differences between those formats than these new HD DVDs.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
On another note, a similar idea is the BIOS level CD/DVD players some media PCs shiped with earlier this year...great idea to let consumers watch movies and music, but keep it "seperate" from the actual PC! And very Linux friendly for both sides!
If you're saying the BBC made a contractual arrangement for HIGNFY, then my comment stands without needing further clarification.
Most companies issue regional rights on a product-by-product basis. I'd like to see WB, Fox, Universal, et al sign a contract with a third party whereby that third-party can sell anything whatsoever they want in another region. If this is truly the agreement the BBC is made, they're a bigger bunch of arses than I gave them credit for.You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.