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Windows CE.NET Ported to Xbox

Posted by timothy on from the oh-why-not dept.

Cutriss writes "Caught this over at Xbox Scene - Windows CE.NET 4.2 has been ported to the Xbox. Artifex, one of the developers of this project, says the following about the status of development: 'The basic kernel subsystem is in place. The IoCtl is about 90% done. ISR/IST is up and working. PCI enumeration happens properly. USB initializes and enumerates devices (but hangs if there's a gamepad connected). Mouse driver loads. Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).' It's a 100% legal distribution, but you'll still need a modded/exploited Xbox in order to run it. Screenshots hosted by Xbox Scene can be found here(1) and here(2)."

42 of 276 comments (clear)

  1. So, uh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    is microsoft cool now?

    1. Re:So, uh by maelstrom · · Score: 5, Funny

      No.

      --
      The more you know, the less you understand.
  2. Fight the man? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is exactly the kind of "hacking" that Bill wants to see... porting Microsoft software to Microsoft hardware.

  3. Sounds like it's done! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).

    So it runs just like winME then.

    1. Re:Sounds like it's done! by DarthWiggle · · Score: 2, Funny

      Since it's an X-Box, will it have a Green Screen of Death? Has a pretty sort of ring to it.

      Alt. funny: Man, I thought CE handhelds were bulky.. there's no way I'm fitting THIS thing in my pocket.

      Ok, it wasn't that funny.. meep...

  4. Wow, I would've never thought it possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Windows running on Microsoft hardware. What next, MacOS running on something made by Apple?

    1. Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible by Doomrat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't be facetious. These guys didn't just stick an installation CD in an X-Box and expect credit for it. They hacked away at a platform which wasn't built for running this sort of thing and succeeded in making a generally useful release, all in their spare time. They don't owe you anything, so until you can come up with something genuinely funny, lay off.

    2. Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible by burns210 · · Score: 4, Funny
      What next, MacOS running on something made by Apple?

      They ported Panther to the Newton?!

    3. Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I understand this could be considerated as funny, but thats not that much good humor. I mean, this joke show us a link between the skill needed to port a software on a computer which both have been desinged by the same company. The joke is about making fun of the hard work of the guys who ported it, because it was easier than do it from another platform. Come on, this is not funny, at least maybe a little bit insightful (to make us realize the link). Then i have to understand that the moderators were all capable of porting something harder somewhere else.

    4. Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible by bwy · · Score: 3, Funny

      a generally useful release

      Yes, thank God someone finally got CE.NET ported to the X-Box. Clearly, this is the tech breakthrough of the year! The world just became twice as productive thanks to this. What a debt society owes to these individuals for giving their spare time to accomplish this. Where is the Paypal "donate now" link? I really owe my life to these guys. Well, maybe not my life but at least the life of a close family member.

      The next step is clearly to get thousands of modified X-Boxes running a halfway working version of CE.NET to stores everywhere. I have a sneaky suspicion that most of the fortune 500 companies can't wait to aquire some of these genius devices for their IT departments.

  5. Why? by Nasarius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Kudos to the guys who did this, I'm sure it took a lot of work...but do we really need Windows CE on the X-Box? IIRC, Windows 2000 already works, and so does Linux. Is there any specific advantage to CE, aside from its smaller size?

    --
    LOAD "SIG",8,1
    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually... Windows 2000 only runs under a port of bochs, or under vmware in linux.

      This is the first time a windows kernel can be run NATIVE on the box.

      Why?
      Because it was fun.

      --Artifex

    2. Re:Why? by RevAaron · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was a Linux and OpenStep guy, still am, though I use more OS X than OpenStep these days. But my primary computer at home is a Windows CE machine. Why? Sound insane? Nah, well, maybe a little.

      CE is very much a "real OS," though certainly with some limitations. It is tiny and fast. Apps for it tend to be the same. I've found it to be stable, more so than even the Linux PDAs I've owned and used. In a 32 MB ROM, I've got the OS, Office, a pretty darn modern version of IE, and more. In 128 MB of my SD card, I've got a bunch of Unix apps (including perl, LaTeX, wget, ftp, ssh, python, many others), my whole development environment for my chosen language- Squeak Smalltalk, Emacs for CE, VNC, and other apps. I've got a tabbed web browser that simply embeds IE and is a whopping 40 kb.

      --

      Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
    3. Re:Why? by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not for anything. It's a cool hack. Why doesn't anybody on Slashdot appreciate these anymore?

    4. Re:Why? by MADCOWbeserk · · Score: 5, Funny

      a specialized, crippled version of the Windows 2000 kernel.

      Sounds like a description of Windows XP

    5. Re:Why? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      sounds cool and useful...MS may even grudgingly "approve" of such a measure. Also, CE is much more condusive to the Xbox format... very many Ipaq and other apps would fit quite nicely on an Xbox memory card...or even USB doggle! A touch more work and the xbox would make a great "home station" for net access and email for busy people who don't really want to keep or manage a PC.

      That said, I suspect that Sony will be the first to actually endorse such a model with PS3...although PS2 is more than adequate right now...just share data from Clie's using mem sticks and USB...but you'd need some phone/palm softare to pull it off...on the other hand if sony could strike a deal to use PalmOS as a "stand alone" HD option on PS2 they could have it RIGHT NOW...and run palm apps to boot!

      And of course we have Apple with iPodOS (???) and OSX. And Linux with Zarus. Nokia just needs to find a friend for Symian phone OS (nintendo? + panasonic? we can wish) and we might finally get true appliance-like functionality from our electronic devices!

      PC manufactures have had 20 years to make it work right...time to give real appliance makers a shot at it?

    6. Re:Why? by treke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nope, he isn't a troll, just a bit unusual. He uses PDAs as his primary computers for programming, web browsing, and the other apps most of us use desktops for.

      Oh and Rev... RELEASE!

    7. Re:Why? by Kent+Recal · · Score: 2, Funny


      I'm still worried about DRM.

    8. Re:Why? by AaronGTurner · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It could be useful. Imagine in 2 years time when noone wants an Xbox any more. They could be collected, Win CE installed, and provided with a Windows server using Microsoft's thin client software and used in many ways. E.g. in classrooms, in the developing world, etc. Provided Microsoft's generosity could be prevailed upon to waive CE licensing fees, that is.

      Of course, in theory, Linux could also be used on both client and server to achieve the same end.

    9. Re:Why? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Bear in mind that most CE devices are about as powerful as the desktop machines of the mid-90s. Perhaps that's enough for what he wants.


      I'm slowly getting to like my recently-acquired IBM Z50, despite the unfamiliarity (I've not really used Windows much before now), because I can stick an mp3 player on, Vim, and an ssh client. It's already got a version of Outlook which is sufficient for my needs, and a version of IE which pretty much works too. This gives me about 75% of the things I use my desktop machine for. Best bit is that it runs for about 36 hours continuously on a fully-charged set of batteries, so I can even listen to my mp3s in the car when I drive up north (about 5 hours, nearer 6 in winter conditions).

    10. Re:Why? by sharkey · · Score: 2, Funny
      Microsoft could cure cancer and people'd still be worried about DRM.

      Actually, I'd be worried about MS Licensing 6.0 for Meds. The retail cure would only work on one carcinoma, the OEM cure would only work when it came with the carcinogen in the first place. The Open Carcinoma License would allow you to purchase cures for multiple carcinomas using only one Treatment Administration Device, but if you don't sign up for Medical Assurance, and then re-up every 2 years, the treatment would reverse itself and reintroduce cancerous growths into your body.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  6. But why? by Subnirvana337 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hasn't this black and green box endured enough ports? Its a computer we get it, when will it stop? When all O/Ss known to man are on xbox?

    jeez...someone has waaay too much time on their hands...

    1. Re:But why? by Obyron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not saying that their work is in vain, i just don't see the point. If you care to explain it would be much appreciated, instead of calling me an asshole just because I disagree.

      A major part of the hacker spirit is not doing something because it's strictly necessary, but doing it because you learn from the experience and ENJOY doing it. For example, I play the guitar. Is it really necessary for me to sit and play when no one else is around? No one will hear it but me. No one is around to enjoy it. It isn't making me any money. I do it because the practice makes me better at it, and because I genuinely enjoy the experience.

      If this guy wants to spend his time porting WinCE to the X-Box (a non-trivial) task, then that's his perogative. "The point," as you put it, is that he enjoys doing it. I doubt even 1000 people will ever utilize what he's doing here, but a lesson he learns or a novel hack he comes up with during the process might come in handy to him later when he IS writing something that thousands of people might use.

      And if not? At least he enjoyed himself.

      --
      --Obyron
  7. Rosetta Stone by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is refreshing. Microsoft demi-priests cracking their own Rosetta Stone. In a way, it's funny.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  8. Cool! So what do we call it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    CeX?

  9. Xbox Scene has rather limited bandwidth, so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Windows CE.NET 4.20 on the Microsoft Xbox *updated*

    >> Artifex & Phoenix, with the assistance and support of OzXodus has released a proof of concept.

    From the readme:

    -Wait wait wait.... Windows? On the Xbox?
    -BULLSHIT! Everyone said it cant be done! Is this for real?
    Yes, this is for real. It's a VERY early work in progress... but it DOES work. Windows CE.NET is a full, "Win32" Windows kernel, designed for embedded platforms. It can run windows applications compiled for CE, CE.NET, PocketPC, and Windows Mobile. It can also run .NET CLR apps, and (with a VM installed) Java. CE versions of Windows Media Player, Flash players, IE, MS Office, etc etc.... This is the real deal.

    -Ok, so, what can we do with it NOW?
    Not much. This is just a proof of concept. The kernel starts, SOME drivers load, the GUI comes up, you can run applications. There is a LOT still to be done before it's very impressive

    -What works?
    The basic kernel subsystem is in place. The IoCtl is about 90% done.
    ISR/IST is up and working. PCI enumeration happens properly. USB initializes and enumerates devices (but hangs if there's a gamepad connected). Mouse driver loads. Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).

    -What still needs done?
    LOTS. Most importantly, the existing 'bugs' need fixed. Keyboard layouts need put in place. The software cursor needs fixed. The date and time is not being retrieved properly... Secondly, drivers need written, ported, or simply put in place. It should be easy to work the NVNET driver in, as it's designed to be easily dropped into an NDIS/RNDIS environment. FATX should just be a matter of adapting the FAT filesystem driver. Gamepad drivers can be ported from the existing windows versions. It MAY (very speculative!) be possible to work in a 3d-accelerated nvidia gpu driver, as CE.NET includes a complete DirectX implementation.

    Also, Focus support is not currently in place (lacking in xbeboot)

    -Why Release now, then? Why not finish these tasks first, and then release?
    I started this project on my own, and got it to this point several months ago Then a LOT of other things started to come up, both with the Xbox, and IRL. I tried to get some other Phoenix members interested, but they were also either too busy with other projects, or IRL. Since then, I've been pondering what to DO with the existing codebase. I finally made the decision to release what I have so far to the public, and see if there were interest. If there is, I'm making an open call for developers, and taking this the way of the xbox-linux project.

    -Can I help?
    YES! Especially helpfull would be people with embedded RTOS experience, and people with experience in writing windows drivers or with the windows driver architechture itself. Just contact me (see below) and we'll discuss what can be done. I may go so far as to set up a sourceforge project to collaborate our efforts.

    -Is this legal to use? Is this legal to distribtue? Am I violating copyright if I host this?
    The stage1 bootloader (XbeBoot) was taken from the Xbox-Linux project, and was written without the use of the XDK. Everything AFTER the stage1 bootloader is either my code (BSP) or CE itself. I submit my code to the world under the GPL. As far as CE itself, here is what Microsoft has to say on the subject:

    (Taken from "Understanding Additional Licensing Rights", Posted: September 18, 2003
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/ce.net/h owtobuy/licensing/addlicrights.asp)

    "Non-commercial distribution rights grant developers the ability to install a runtime on an unlimited number of devices and distribute those devices to third parties for non-commercial purposes.

  10. This is awesome! by Dr+Reducto · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I read what the guy who did this said, and at theend, he says that with this out of the way, we are a few steps closer to getting Windows XP and such ported over. The guy does need help getting together some people who know Windows drivers and such to help him and is considering making this a sourceforge project.

  11. I can see the comments now... by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Replace Microsoft Software with other Microsoft Software on Microsoft Hardware -
    - Cool
    - Why Bother
    - How Dumb
    - You Tool
    - But.. That's not Linux!

    But which will be most popular?

    1. Re:I can see the comments now... by 1010011010 · · Score: 2, Funny


      Q: Can you run WinCE on my XBox?
      A: Yeah! Sorta!

      No, sorry, the correct answer is "who gives a shit?"

      --
      Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
    2. Re:I can see the comments now... by ergo98 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Note that they're "90% done" several parts of it. An old saying that I remember frequently when seeing the "90%" claim is "90% of software is 90% done 90% of the time". So very, very true...

    3. Re:I can see the comments now... by Tim+C · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Round here, we call that a "programmer's 90%" - meaning that it mostly works, perhaps lacks one or two required features, has barely been tested (if at all), still needs to be integrated with the front-end, have error checking added, be documented/commented, etc.

      The 10% remaining is the boring, tidying up and finishing off stuff that takes 90% of the time...

      --
      It's official. Most of you are morons.
  12. Re:XBox Developers Kit is out by seanvaandering · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Would you fucking moron moderators do something right.."

    I don't recall Slashdot being a software repository, and due to your tone in your "request" - do you actually think that by belittling the moderators, you'll be able to force them to mod up the parent? Lets be realistic for one millisecond here and assume that these are real people on the other end. Now I work helpdesk support for a major ISP, if someone like you ended up calling and I got your call, I'd be "accidentally" hitting the release button on my phone and you can dial back in and wait another hour to talk to someone useful. Belittling anyone on here will get you nothing but a -1 on your posts, no matter how important you think it is.

    Maybe you should read the slashdot Moderation Guidelines and learn on how moderation works on here. Knowledge is power.

  13. I'll tell you why... by ScottCanto · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So many people have been asking why port CE, why port anything to the x-box? Why not? It's a hobby. People have fun doing it, and I personally admire the skills these people have. Will it in the long run be beneficial? Probably not. You get experience from doing stuff like this and enjoy it at the same time. Sounds good to me.

  14. er... this is fantastic by Osrin · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is great, think of all the applications I can put it to...

    1) I can read email in Starbucks over 802.11b (once somebody is kind enough to port a network adaptor).
    2) I can hook it up to the GPS device and a 29" Telly and get my xbox to give me directions in the car.
    3) I can run pocket Excel on my desk at work, on a huge screen, on those days when my laptop is off for repair.
    4) I can download my contacts and diary and read them on my telly at home.
    5) blah blah blah

    Big is beautiful, why should I bother doing any of these things on a PDA that I keep on leaving around.

    So long as I'm carrying my 29" wide screen TV, my xbox and a network connector I will never again be late for a meeting, or stuck without a friends phone number.

  15. Har har by Error27 · · Score: 3, Funny

    And people said that Windows wasn't as portable as Linux or NetBSD. What do you have to say now, punks?!

  16. Finally a legal reason to get a modchip! by samdaone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    'Nuff said

    --

    Make me your friend. All my friends get +1 modifier and I need friends :)

  17. Simple... by Wheaty18 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Windows isn't as portable as Linux or NetBSD.

  18. New slashdot cliche? by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 4, Funny

    "But does it run WinCE?"

  19. What this means by phreak03 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Before all the trolls start whine about, "why mod an xbox"
    need i remind you that for well under $200
    you have
    *legaly (sorta)
    -divx player with composite outputs.
    and support to stream for every major streaming protacal, from your network hard drives

    -mp3 jupebox with shoutcast support (xbox media player)
    decent ftp server

    *illigaly
    -a nintendo, SNES, GENesis, gameboy advance, N64 emulator (put a couple thosand games)
    -Can copy games to the hard drive and play them
    have a nice, cool dedicated linux box running gnetoo, mandrake or one of like 3 decent distros

    The hardware is a 733celeron (copermine core, good on power and heat)
    64megs of ram shared between apps, and Video ram
    a modified Geforce 3 core (good enough)

    For those of you that whine, "it can't play burned disks"
    either replace the drive, or buy one that has a samsung drive in it, they play all media just about.

    --
    come comment on the madness at http://slashdot.org/~phreak03/journal/
  20. Re:Whats the point? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    but CE is more suited to the Xbox ecosystem than XP is... you don't need to play games...It's an Xbox, so all you really need is a quick way to get web browsers, email, productiviy apps, etc. I suspect that MS may even look the other way on this one...it would increase Ce share, because you can BUY CD based apps in most computer stores now days! Xbox having a HDD, you'd have something to sync too...for cheap college kids, or teens it'd make a great tool for simple things like email or reports...Xbox can even use PC monitors out-of-the-box with no hacking! Get USB printing and other devices working (remember that CE has some ability to use "normal" Win32 drivers!) and you could even print, scan, digital camera, etc. and you've got decent CE apps to run on it.

    I'm only surprised MS hasn't released something like this sooner. That said, using the actual XDK might be useful even with restrictions...I'm sure that XboxOS is VERY CLOSE to WinCE under the hood...probably more than MS would ever admit to. this project may be easier than he's making it!

  21. Now if by batlike · · Score: 2, Funny

    ..we're going to use the XboX as a PDA, we're also gonna need to invest in new shirts with bigger breast pockets.

  22. This is too funny by TheCabal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Oh, the hypocricy!

    People going on and on about "why bother" porting WinCE to XBox, but ask them the same thing porting Linux to Xbox or other gaming platforms and you best done your asbestos underwear. I guess Slashdotters don't like it when the shoe is on the other hand.