Windows CE.NET Ported to Xbox

Cutriss writes "Caught this over at Xbox Scene - Windows CE.NET 4.2 has been ported to the Xbox. Artifex, one of the developers of this project, says the following about the status of development: 'The basic kernel subsystem is in place. The IoCtl is about 90% done. ISR/IST is up and working. PCI enumeration happens properly. USB initializes and enumerates devices (but hangs if there's a gamepad connected). Mouse driver loads. Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).' It's a 100% legal distribution, but you'll still need a modded/exploited Xbox in order to run it. Screenshots hosted by Xbox Scene can be found here(1) and here(2)."

Comments

So, uh

[Anonymous Coward]

is microsoft cool now?

Re:So, uh

[maelstrom]

No.

Fight the man?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is exactly the kind of "hacking" that Bill wants to see... porting Microsoft software to Microsoft hardware.

Sounds like it's done!

[Anonymous Coward]

Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).

So it runs just like winME then.

Re:Sounds like it's done!

[DarthWiggle]

Since it's an X-Box, will it have a Green Screen of Death? Has a pretty sort of ring to it.

Alt. funny: Man, I thought CE handhelds were bulky.. there's no way I'm fitting THIS thing in my pocket.

Ok, it wasn't that funny.. meep...

Re:Sounds like it's done!

[bhtooefr]

Well, I don't know what WinCE does when it bluescreens.

BTW, about your joke: you should go to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/devices/ default.asp and see that it's not just PDAs that run CE/XPE. Actually, only 1/3 of their platforms are portable.

Re:Sounds like it's done!

[_Sexy_Pants_]

What keyboard?

Wow, I would've never thought it possible

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows running on Microsoft hardware. What next, MacOS running on something made by Apple?

Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible

[Doomrat]

Don't be facetious. These guys didn't just stick an installation CD in an X-Box and expect credit for it. They hacked away at a platform which wasn't built for running this sort of thing and succeeded in making a generally useful release, all in their spare time. They don't owe you anything, so until you can come up with something genuinely funny, lay off.

Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible

[burns210]

What next, MacOS running on something made by Apple?

They ported Panther to the Newton?!

Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand this could be considerated as funny, but thats not that much good humor. I mean, this joke show us a link between the skill needed to port a software on a computer which both have been desinged by the same company. The joke is about making fun of the hard work of the guys who ported it, because it was easier than do it from another platform. Come on, this is not funny, at least maybe a little bit insightful (to make us realize the link). Then i have to understand that the moderators were all capable of porting something harder somewhere else.

Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible

[netsharc]

Have a look at my Panther-powered iPod!

Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible

[burns210]

you CAN put a bootable install of Panther on your ipod... just need to be able to ssh into the panther install from the iPod OS.

Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible

[bwy]

a generally useful release

Yes, thank God someone finally got CE.NET ported to the X-Box. Clearly, this is the tech breakthrough of the year! The world just became twice as productive thanks to this. What a debt society owes to these individuals for giving their spare time to accomplish this. Where is the Paypal "donate now" link? I really owe my life to these guys. Well, maybe not my life but at least the life of a close family member.

The next step is clearly to get thousands of modified X-Boxes running a halfway working version of CE.NET to stores everywhere. I have a sneaky suspicion that most of the fortune 500 companies can't wait to aquire some of these genius devices for their IT departments.

Re:Wow, I would've never thought it possible

[jseale]

Nah, you know what'd be REALLY cool? How 'bout MacOS on a PS2 or PSX? I mean if PS2 is already running Linux, MacOS shouldn't be too far fetched.

Why?

[Nasarius]

Kudos to the guys who did this, I'm sure it took a lot of work...but do we really need Windows CE on the X-Box? IIRC, Windows 2000 already works, and so does Linux. Is there any specific advantage to CE, aside from its smaller size?

Re:Why?

[xeno_gearz]

Agreed. Aside from the challenge of conducting such an exercise, is there any advantage to this port? While perhaps an interesting project, I am more impressed with the efforts to utilize Linux on the X-Box.

I certainly will not put anyone down for having the ability to facilitate such a port however. My hat off to them.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually... Windows 2000 only runs under a port of bochs, or under vmware in linux.

This is the first time a windows kernel can be run NATIVE on the box.

Why?
Because it was fun.

--Artifex

Re:Why?

[RevAaron]

I was a Linux and OpenStep guy, still am, though I use more OS X than OpenStep these days. But my primary computer at home is a Windows CE machine. Why? Sound insane? Nah, well, maybe a little.

CE is very much a "real OS," though certainly with some limitations. It is tiny and fast. Apps for it tend to be the same. I've found it to be stable, more so than even the Linux PDAs I've owned and used. In a 32 MB ROM, I've got the OS, Office, a pretty darn modern version of IE, and more. In 128 MB of my SD card, I've got a bunch of Unix apps (including perl, LaTeX, wget, ftp, ssh, python, many others), my whole development environment for my chosen language- Squeak Smalltalk, Emacs for CE, VNC, and other apps. I've got a tabbed web browser that simply embeds IE and is a whopping 40 kb.

Re:Why?

[greygent]

What sort of hardware is this CE box?

Re:Why?

[fm6]

It's not for anything. It's a cool hack. Why doesn't anybody on Slashdot appreciate these anymore?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he's talking about his PDA.

Re:Why?

[damiam]

IIRC, Windows 2000 already works

I wasn't aware that Windows 2000 is available for the Xbox. Are you sure?

Re:Why?

[toddestan]

The XBox ships with a specialized, crippled version of the Windows 2000 kernel.

Re:Why?

[damiam]

I can see what the original poster meant, but "specialized, crippled version of the Windows 2000 kernel" and "Windows 2000" aren't quite the same thing.

Re:Why?

[MADCOWbeserk]

a specialized, crippled version of the Windows 2000 kernel.

Sounds like a description of Windows XP

Re:Why?

[NanoGator]

"Why doesn't anybody on Slashdot appreciate these anymore? "

Microsoft to Slashdot is like Michael Jackson to the outside world. Microsoft could cure cancer and people'd still be worried about DRM.

Re:Why?

[mabhatter654]

sounds cool and useful...MS may even grudgingly "approve" of such a measure. Also, CE is much more condusive to the Xbox format... very many Ipaq and other apps would fit quite nicely on an Xbox memory card...or even USB doggle! A touch more work and the xbox would make a great "home station" for net access and email for busy people who don't really want to keep or manage a PC.

That said, I suspect that Sony will be the first to actually endorse such a model with PS3...although PS2 is more than adequate right now...just share data from Clie's using mem sticks and USB...but you'd need some phone/palm softare to pull it off...on the other hand if sony could strike a deal to use PalmOS as a "stand alone" HD option on PS2 they could have it RIGHT NOW...and run palm apps to boot!

And of course we have Apple with iPodOS (???) and OSX. And Linux with Zarus. Nokia just needs to find a friend for Symian phone OS (nintendo? + panasonic? we can wish) and we might finally get true appliance-like functionality from our electronic devices!

PC manufactures have had 20 years to make it work right...time to give real appliance makers a shot at it?

Re:Why?

[treke]

Nope, he isn't a troll, just a bit unusual. He uses PDAs as his primary computers for programming, web browsing, and the other apps most of us use desktops for.

Oh and Rev... RELEASE!

Re:Why?

[jx100]

well, they're working on the cure for cancer...

Re:Why?

[Kent Recal]

I'm still worried about DRM.

Re:Why?

[AaronGTurner]

It could be useful. Imagine in 2 years time when noone wants an Xbox any more. They could be collected, Win CE installed, and provided with a Windows server using Microsoft's thin client software and used in many ways. E.g. in classrooms, in the developing world, etc. Provided Microsoft's generosity could be prevailed upon to waive CE licensing fees, that is.

Of course, in theory, Linux could also be used on both client and server to achieve the same end.

Re:Why?

[Gordonjcp]

Bear in mind that most CE devices are about as powerful as the desktop machines of the mid-90s. Perhaps that's enough for what he wants.

I'm slowly getting to like my recently-acquired IBM Z50, despite the unfamiliarity (I've not really used Windows much before now), because I can stick an mp3 player on, Vim, and an ssh client. It's already got a version of Outlook which is sufficient for my needs, and a version of IE which pretty much works too. This gives me about 75% of the things I use my desktop machine for. Best bit is that it runs for about 36 hours continuously on a fully-charged set of batteries, so I can even listen to my mp3s in the car when I drive up north (about 5 hours, nearer 6 in winter conditions).

Re:Why?

[bhtooefr]

400MHz XScales are hardly "mid 90's". Late 90's is the word you're looking for.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed we would. Doing X number of good deeds does not excuse doing Y number of bad deeds.

Re:Why?

[Gordonjcp]

I was thinking more the smaller MIPS machines, really. Even so, the point is that you *don't* need a dual 3GHz system for running a word-processor and web browser.

Re:Why?

[sharkey]

Microsoft could cure cancer and people'd still be worried about DRM.

Actually, I'd be worried about MS Licensing 6.0 for Meds. The retail cure would only work on one carcinoma, the OEM cure would only work when it came with the carcinogen in the first place. The Open Carcinoma License would allow you to purchase cures for multiple carcinomas using only one Treatment Administration Device, but if you don't sign up for Medical Assurance, and then re-up every 2 years, the treatment would reverse itself and reintroduce cancerous growths into your body.

Re:Why?

[RevAaron]

It is a Sigmarion III palmtop. Kind of like a PDA, kind of like a laptop. I do my coding- including compilation, running, and testing, email (well, ssh'd pine), web, etc etc. I use a regular XP or OS X desktop at work, though.

One can also run CE on x86 PCs. For a while, I did that on a K6-2 machine that was my main computer, though that has since been made into a fileserver in Linux. Can't fit all of my MP3s and every other file I've had on any a memory card (unless it's a 40 GB PCMCIA HD, though the Sig3 hasn't PCMCIA unlike my last WinCE box), but I don't need most of them, streaming mp3s and mounting the other shares easily via Samba.

Re:Why?

[RevAaron]

MUHAHAHA!

I know, I know. I am nerd. But not a troll. But there is something to be said to having my primary computer ready-to-go in my pocket, usable a second after I hit the power button.

Re:Why?

[RevAaron]

Hell, and if you're not coding in a compile-cycle intensive language like C, C++ or Java, you can do full development on the 400 MHz XScale as well. In addition to some scripting languages- mostly Dialect, REBOL, and Perl- I code in Smalltalk. Smalltalk is a compiled language, although bytecode-compiled like Java. But the compilation happens when you save the work you've done on a method, which takes a super tiny fraction of a second, and a slightly larger fraction of a second on a machine of this speed- but still usually less than a second!

I have tried GCC for CE on the Sig3 and it is a pain. I wouldn't do C development on something this fast, though I have done it on machines far slower running Turbo C and DOS.

Speed of this box is somewhere mid to late 90s. It may be 400 MHz, but it's not as fast as a 400 MHz P2. Though in the Smalltalk benchmarks I use, it scores somewhere near my K6-2/350 server.

Though, I would happily take a 1 GHz XScale. They exist, but not in any products I know of.

Re:Why?

[RevAaron]

It may be hard to comprehend, but different strokes for different folks.

OpenStep was far from a failed venture. NeXT was started around 1991, with cubes and NeXTSTEP first coming out in 92 or 93. No, it never sold like PCs. Hardware business sucked, so they moved to just the OS, with OpenStep, which ran/runs on m68k NeXT hardware, x86 machines, SPARC and PA-RISC (HP-UX) machines. Again, it wasn't used as widely as NT, 95 or Solaris, but it was used a fair amount in some sectors. Home users were rightly deterred by its price.

Solid software, a lot to like and learn from in there.

I wouldn't consider it a failure- Mac OS X is pretty much OpenStep version 6. And as others have pointed out, OS X is the top Unix seller these days, used on the desktop moreso than the server.

And if you think QNX is another failed venture than you're pretty out of touch...

Re:Why?

[treke]

I'd say he just has different needs than most people. If I could find something in the formfactor of an old Jornada J70 with a pxa255 400, 64MB of ram, a good battery, and a good Linux port, I could probably get along pretty well myself. It's definitly not for eveyone though.

Re:Why?

[ticklish2day]

Do you have a writeup somewhere for the rest of us? It seems freakishly cool (is there a word for that?) to get CE running on a desktop. Just interested.

But why?

[Subnirvana337]

Hasn't this black and green box endured enough ports? Its a computer we get it, when will it stop? When all O/Ss known to man are on xbox?

jeez...someone has waaay too much time on their hands...

Re:But why?

[Subnirvana337]

I'm not saying that their work is in vain, i just don't see the point. If you care to explain it would be much appreciated, instead of calling me an asshole just because I disagree.

Re:But why?

[bersl2]

Its a computer we get it, when will it stop?

OSXbox

Re:But why?

[mlk]

But when will the compaints about other people wasting time stop... it his/her time to waste, let them waste it. It costs you nothing.

Re:But why?

[Goldfinger7400]

jeez...someone has waaay too much time on their hands...

I think it's time better spent than just playing games. I mean, at least these hackers are learning something about computer architecture. If this was done by students, I would bet that they're going to find a more welcoming job market if they've already managed to port an entire operating system to unsupported hardware.

Re:But why?

[Obyron]

I'm not saying that their work is in vain, i just don't see the point. If you care to explain it would be much appreciated, instead of calling me an asshole just because I disagree.

A major part of the hacker spirit is not doing something because it's strictly necessary, but doing it because you learn from the experience and ENJOY doing it. For example, I play the guitar. Is it really necessary for me to sit and play when no one else is around? No one will hear it but me. No one is around to enjoy it. It isn't making me any money. I do it because the practice makes me better at it, and because I genuinely enjoy the experience.

If this guy wants to spend his time porting WinCE to the X-Box (a non-trivial) task, then that's his perogative. "The point," as you put it, is that he enjoys doing it. I doubt even 1000 people will ever utilize what he's doing here, but a lesson he learns or a novel hack he comes up with during the process might come in handy to him later when he IS writing something that thousands of people might use.

And if not? At least he enjoyed himself.

Re:But why?

[jusdisgi]

"Hasn't this black and green box endured enough ports?"

No, no, not at all. Why should it? It's a popular current computer archetecture! There are millions of them...and they're really cheap. They are a great thing for people to hack on and port YourMommaOS on for fun. The xbox, being so widespread, really ought to have everything available to it that a normal PC has.

Re:But why?

[rascal1182]

There are millions of them...and they're really cheap. They are a great thing for people to hack on and port YourMommaOS on for fun.

What about Dreamcast? You can pick one up for $30, and it's still a very capable machine.

Oh wait... It says right here "Compatable with Windows CE." So much for that idea...

Re:But why?

[icebattle]

Exactly. Come to think of it, have any mainframe OSes been ported to the XBox? If not, does anyone want to get started with MVS?... I'll write the IEFBR14 routine...

Re:But why?

[Subnirvana337]

Allright, i stand corrected. I apologize to any reader of this thread, I didn't think my comment out before i posted. Kudos to the porter, theyre doin something good, i may go out and buy an xbox now....

Re:But why?

[Kent Recal]

Yes, the dreamcast is a very nice gadget to play around with.

And there are lots of docs about running UNIX on it, too!

The bad news is that the cpu is a bit too weak for serious video-playback.
But hey, you can build a cheap-ass webserver from it.

Re:But why?

[oldwolf13]

I've listened to too many "why" questions tonight over this.

Why? Because there is a DEMAND for it.

I hated xbox until I got one, thought they were just more "m$" crap.

Now that I have one and it's 'modded' i absolutely love it.

It's my video player(thanks to xbmp), my mp3 machine, my shoutcast tuner, along WITH my games machine... with most of the content streamed off my PC.

My friends who were the same, hating the xbox for it's origins, and the fact that it "just a pc" now are jealous of my xbox.

it boots in seconds, it's GREAT for playing music/video on my stereo/tv, and it fits in better with my home theatre then anything I had before (despite it's size).

I run linux on it as well.... why? well because it makes a nice little box for it... browsing the web or reading email on the go, I can kick back and relax at the tv while doing this.

Now with this windows ce 'port' which I have tried (and it is still a ways from being fully functional), well I can have a usable OS with all this in SECONDS compared to xbox linux, plus I have access to all the windows ce apps as well.

It's just another great choice... especially for a sub-$200 machine (in canadian dollars anyways)

I see so much questions asked "why" these days that I really think /. must have changed... I mean we went from a people who questioned "when" to those who question "why".

Re:But why?

[cfuse]

I'm not saying that their work is in vain, i just don't see the point.

Masturbation is also pointless, but thousands do it every second. In fact, I'm doing it right now. Oh yeah!

Why the hell would you do this?

[Organized Konfusion]

We already have Linux working on the Xbox, so why would you need Windows CE.NET?? Who wants to turn their Xbox into an overwight PDA

Re:Why the hell would you do this?

[baker_tony]

RTFA. It's a "stepping stone" to get full blown Windows running on XBox.

Re:Why the hell would you do this?

[CubicDDD]

why would you need Windows CE.NET?

Browse Porn faster

There, you answered it yourself!

Re:Anti-leech

[aqua]

Bad webmaster. He who useth mod_rewrite to check HTTP_REFERER must also checketh it for emptiness, for lo do some persons care about their goddamn privacy a wee bit. No cookie for you.

More M$ INTO the Xbox... should be vice versa

[Soulfarmer]

I mean... why would someone want to use another MS software in Xbox, since you can get along without the MS bugware....

Rosetta Stone

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

This is refreshing. Microsoft demi-priests cracking their own Rosetta Stone. In a way, it's funny.

Cool! So what do we call it?

[Anonymous Coward]

CeX?

Xbox Scene has rather limited bandwidth, so...

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows CE.NET 4.20 on the Microsoft Xbox *updated*

>> Artifex & Phoenix, with the assistance and support of OzXodus has released a proof of concept.

From the readme:

-Wait wait wait.... Windows? On the Xbox?
-BULLSHIT! Everyone said it cant be done! Is this for real?
Yes, this is for real. It's a VERY early work in progress... but it DOES work. Windows CE.NET is a full, "Win32" Windows kernel, designed for embedded platforms. It can run windows applications compiled for CE, CE.NET, PocketPC, and Windows Mobile. It can also run .NET CLR apps, and (with a VM installed) Java. CE versions of Windows Media Player, Flash players, IE, MS Office, etc etc.... This is the real deal.

-Ok, so, what can we do with it NOW?
Not much. This is just a proof of concept. The kernel starts, SOME drivers load, the GUI comes up, you can run applications. There is a LOT still to be done before it's very impressive

-What works?
The basic kernel subsystem is in place. The IoCtl is about 90% done.
ISR/IST is up and working. PCI enumeration happens properly. USB initializes and enumerates devices (but hangs if there's a gamepad connected). Mouse driver loads. Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).

-What still needs done?
LOTS. Most importantly, the existing 'bugs' need fixed. Keyboard layouts need put in place. The software cursor needs fixed. The date and time is not being retrieved properly... Secondly, drivers need written, ported, or simply put in place. It should be easy to work the NVNET driver in, as it's designed to be easily dropped into an NDIS/RNDIS environment. FATX should just be a matter of adapting the FAT filesystem driver. Gamepad drivers can be ported from the existing windows versions. It MAY (very speculative!) be possible to work in a 3d-accelerated nvidia gpu driver, as CE.NET includes a complete DirectX implementation.

Also, Focus support is not currently in place (lacking in xbeboot)

-Why Release now, then? Why not finish these tasks first, and then release?
I started this project on my own, and got it to this point several months ago Then a LOT of other things started to come up, both with the Xbox, and IRL. I tried to get some other Phoenix members interested, but they were also either too busy with other projects, or IRL. Since then, I've been pondering what to DO with the existing codebase. I finally made the decision to release what I have so far to the public, and see if there were interest. If there is, I'm making an open call for developers, and taking this the way of the xbox-linux project.

-Can I help?
YES! Especially helpfull would be people with embedded RTOS experience, and people with experience in writing windows drivers or with the windows driver architechture itself. Just contact me (see below) and we'll discuss what can be done. I may go so far as to set up a sourceforge project to collaborate our efforts.

-Is this legal to use? Is this legal to distribtue? Am I violating copyright if I host this?
The stage1 bootloader (XbeBoot) was taken from the Xbox-Linux project, and was written without the use of the XDK. Everything AFTER the stage1 bootloader is either my code (BSP) or CE itself. I submit my code to the world under the GPL. As far as CE itself, here is what Microsoft has to say on the subject:

(Taken from "Understanding Additional Licensing Rights", Posted: September 18, 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/ce.net/h owtobuy/licensing/addlicrights.asp)

"Non-commercial distribution rights grant developers the ability to install a runtime on an unlimited number of devices and distribute those devices to third parties for non-commercial purposes.

Re:Xbox Scene has rather limited bandwidth, so...

[foonf]

Everything AFTER the stage1 bootloader is either my code (BSP) or CE itself. I submit my code to the world under the GPL. As far as CE itself, here is what Microsoft has to say on the subject...

I don't know enough about this to know how exactly the added code and CE interact, but if the added code includes modifications to CE itself (or dynamic linking, beyond basic use of CE through published APIs a la linux kernel modules), this might not be legal. The MS Shared Source license does allow redistribution of modified source and binaries (and in fact it actually goes beyond the GPL in one way, in that the source does not necessarily have to be included), but as it explicitly forbids commercial redistribution without commercial licensing from Microsoft, it isn't GPL-compatible (its patent clauses might also be, but I'm less sure about that). Unless they're sure there is no contamination, they should either put the code under a non-viral license like the BSD, or grit their teeth and use the MS license if they want something more restrictive and viral (those are the effective terms for redistributing the whole thing anyway). Otherwise there might be a totally unnecessary KDE-type situation due to use of the GPL.

Re:Xbox Scene has rather limited bandwidth, so...

[TheRaven64]

What can be done with it now?
Not much. This is just a proof of concept. The kernel starts, SOME drivers load, the GUI comes up, you can run applications.

Unlike a full featured OS, where the kernel starts, some drivers load, the GUI comes up (or not) and you can run applications...

Re:Xbox Scene has rather limited bandwidth, so...

[bhtooefr]

However, a full featured OS works like this:

Kernel starts
Drivers load
GUI comes up (or not, if it's a server that doesn't need a GUI and it's *nix)
You can run apps well (debatable on XP, but it's still better than this)

The CEXbox port is like this:
Kernel starts
Some of the drivers load, and few load right
GUI comes up (with problems)
You can run apps (not very well at all)

Re:Anti-leech

[Anonymous Coward]

For those not in the know, if you open the article first, and while viewing it, paste the image URLs (right click -> copy shortcut) in your address/location bar. You must be viewing the article before you paste them in your address bar.

Were leeches??

[seanvaandering]

You don't have permission to access /users.compaqnet.be/cn203909/5/0000271629/noleech. gif on this server.

The effect continues....

Re:Anti-leech

[mikeyrb]

No, you can do that straight from the /. article, don't even need to view that article (as I'm sure many don't...)

Re:Ported to CE?

[SirSlud]

And while we're on the subject, why would he climb that mountain?

This is probably a stupid questions but...

[_Sexy_Pants_]

Could this say anything about Dreamcast games on an xbox?

Re:This is probably a stupid questions but...

[shione]

Only a few Dreamcast games were made using Windows CE so even if it were possible (which I doubt) you would only be able to play SEGA Rally 2, Super Robot Wars Alpha and one or two other games. None of the good Dreamcast games were made on CE. Sega Rally 2 is the worst being that it can't even keep a steady framerate when you force it to run at 30fps.

Re:This is probably a stupid questions but...

[Quobobo]

Wouldn't the different processor make running DC binaries... impossible? I could be wrong on that, I don't know exactly what the DC's processor is.

Re:This is probably a stupid questions but...

[cheekyboy]

How about the xbox gaming model/api running in all windows machines. No more installs, just put the cd in , and GO, or boot of it.

Re:This is probably a stupid questions but...

[Svenne]

If I'm not mistaken it uses a Hitachi SH4, so you have a point.

The "Forbidden" screenshot links

[Joey Patterson]

Those two screenshot links don't work... anybody got a mirror?

Re:The "Forbidden" screenshot links

[mikeyrb]

try reading my above comment...it's there, you'll see it...

Re:The "Forbidden" screenshot links

[Anonymous Coward]

http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/4/wince/Xbox_wince. JPG
and
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/4/wince/WindowsCExb ox.jpg

_Michaelangelo_

Re:The "Forbidden" screenshot links

[seanvaandering]

You don't need a mirror - just cut and paste the "link" into a new browser window that isn't allready homepaged to slashdot - preferably a blank page.

Re:The "Forbidden" screenshot links

[bubkus_jones]

They worked for me if I just opened the links in new tabs under Mozilla.

This is awesome!

[Dr Reducto]

I read what the guy who did this said, and at theend, he says that with this out of the way, we are a few steps closer to getting Windows XP and such ported over. The guy does need help getting together some people who know Windows drivers and such to help him and is considering making this a sourceforge project.

I can see the comments now...

[PetoskeyGuy]

Replace Microsoft Software with other Microsoft Software on Microsoft Hardware -
- Cool
- Why Bother
- How Dumb
- You Tool
- But.. That's not Linux!

But which will be most popular?

Re:I can see the comments now...

[1010011010]

Q: Can you run WinCE on my XBox?
A: Yeah! Sorta!

No, sorry, the correct answer is "who gives a shit?"

Re:I can see the comments now...

[ergo98]

Note that they're "90% done" several parts of it. An old saying that I remember frequently when seeing the "90%" claim is "90% of software is 90% done 90% of the time". So very, very true...

Re:I can see the comments now...

[Hes Nikke]

i thought it was "90% of software development takes 90% of your time, the last 10% takes another 90%"

now that i get it spit out it looks wrong... oh well <Submit>

Re:I can see the comments now...

[Tim C]

Round here, we call that a "programmer's 90%" - meaning that it mostly works, perhaps lacks one or two required features, has barely been tested (if at all), still needs to be integrated with the front-end, have error checking added, be documented/commented, etc.

The 10% remaining is the boring, tidying up and finishing off stuff that takes 90% of the time...

why on earth?

[BiggyP]

ok, well, firstly why on earth would anyone want to bother, i can't see any point at all for the exercise, a hobbyOS is always more fun when you own it, or have some rights over it.

on the legal front, i am curious to know if he's linking anything MS against anything GPL here, or if it's simply recompiled and being launched by his GPL'd work.

Re:why on earth?

[fishbowl]

Why bother? Well, it's probably not worth the effort *now*, but what if these projects are successful?

The X-Box is surprisingly inexpensive, considering its specs. Mine was $120 -- At that price, "shopping around" didn't occur to me, it hit my impulse-buy price point. If there was already a fully function linux distribution (or another general purpose OS, or even, say, a Windows installer!), I'd have bought another one to hack and replace my mini-itx machine for a file/print/mame/dvd box.

Re:Anti-leech

[seanvaandering]

Nah, privacy? Hrmph... Just surf to it from your corporate LAN, like I do! I'm just a number here anyways.

Re:YES!

[WildBeast]

brilliant

Source?

[Spoing]

OK, it's obvious...though I've yet to see anyone else mention it.

Bonus points: Why work on a closed source version of a propriatory operating system without getting paid?

Re:Source?

[Disavian]

Well... becuase people have already done open source, and succeeded, so he was being new and creative. There always seems to be the drive to do something that hasn't been done, and, why not? However, after win2k was ported, that should have taken the wind out this project.

As for the legality/acquiring of the source, I do not know.

Re:Source?

[shaitand]

The microsoft shared source initiative IS NOT open source.

Refer to opensource.org

Re:Source?

[Spoing]

Just to clarify things, Windows CE IS open source. There is a modified shared source license that CE is licensed under.

Is this the Microsoft "Shared Source" licence?

If it is, that licence is closed and highly restricted ... with source code available to those who aggree to the NDA if the person is in the group MS will even allow to sign that NDA in the first place.

1. This NDAs is not open, it is a trap.

Re:Porting?

[Disavian]

Just by suggesting that, some hax0r will now want his xbox to manage his waffles or toast in the morning. Look at the DOOM you have brought upon us all! Or, he'll just eat his waffles while he ports FreeBSD over to xbox. Or emulate a commodore 64 on xbox. Or emulate a mac emulating a pc emulating a commodore 64. Geez, the person who does that aught to get a prize or something... Similar to the darwin awards for having "too much free time".

It will stop when...

[Cyno01]

Someone ports OS X to the Xbox, fitting, isn't it.

Microsoft Software on Microsoft Hardware

[digitalgimpus]

It's sad that's actually an accomplishment (but sadly, it is a feat for programmers).

Funny in a way. But pretty sad.

Thanks Microsoft. Hackers are needed to get *your* crummy software on *your* crummy hardware.

At least Linux goes on pretty much anything.

Re:Microsoft Software on Microsoft Hardware

[bhtooefr]

Car DVD players? I'm sorry, but a Baby AT tower isn't exactly small. I've got one sitting next to this laptop. Also, you need some serious power (or an MPEG-2 decoding card) to do DVDs. You're not going to get a 486 to do it, unless it has PCI, and you add an MPEG-2 decoding card.

shame...

[g-to-the-o-to-the-g]

why people, why?#!@$#?

Re:XBox Developers Kit is out

[seanvaandering]

"Would you fucking moron moderators do something right.."

I don't recall Slashdot being a software repository, and due to your tone in your "request" - do you actually think that by belittling the moderators, you'll be able to force them to mod up the parent? Lets be realistic for one millisecond here and assume that these are real people on the other end. Now I work helpdesk support for a major ISP, if someone like you ended up calling and I got your call, I'd be "accidentally" hitting the release button on my phone and you can dial back in and wait another hour to talk to someone useful. Belittling anyone on here will get you nothing but a -1 on your posts, no matter how important you think it is.

Maybe you should read the slashdot Moderation Guidelines and learn on how moderation works on here. Knowledge is power.

I'll tell you why...

[ScottCanto]

So many people have been asking why port CE, why port anything to the x-box? Why not? It's a hobby. People have fun doing it, and I personally admire the skills these people have. Will it in the long run be beneficial? Probably not. You get experience from doing stuff like this and enjoy it at the same time. Sounds good to me.

OT: Israel bars Microsoft completely now

[nutznboltz]

news.google.com search

Yes it does make it better

[gearheadsmp]

Porting things to the Xbox does make it better. I use Xbox Media Center, which is based off both Xine and mplayer. It's great for watching movie rips.

er... this is fantastic

[Osrin]

This is great, think of all the applications I can put it to...

1) I can read email in Starbucks over 802.11b (once somebody is kind enough to port a network adaptor).
2) I can hook it up to the GPS device and a 29" Telly and get my xbox to give me directions in the car.
3) I can run pocket Excel on my desk at work, on a huge screen, on those days when my laptop is off for repair.
4) I can download my contacts and diary and read them on my telly at home.
5) blah blah blah

Big is beautiful, why should I bother doing any of these things on a PDA that I keep on leaving around.

So long as I'm carrying my 29" wide screen TV, my xbox and a network connector I will never again be late for a meeting, or stuck without a friends phone number.

Offtopic: Mouse Cursors

[pipingguy]

Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet

A nice utility might be to accentuate the mouse cursor for those that use more than one monitor at higher resolutions. I.E., touch the mouse slightly and the cursor flashes.

It may sound stupid to some, but this would be really useful in my opinion.

Re:Offtopic: Mouse Cursors

[Goldfinger7400]

I remember a piece of software called Cursor Beacon for System 7 back in the day. You would type a keystoke and something flashy happened around the pointer. Haven't seen anything like that for modern OS's, though. And you'd have to make an application out of it nowadays, what with the demise of extensions.

Re:Offtopic: Mouse Cursors

[starnix]

Gnome 2.0 and up have this.

Re:Offtopic: Mouse Cursors

[bhtooefr]

The IntelliMouse drivers for Windows 3.1 had this. I think it was in the Laptop section, and I used it, as this system had the worst B&W LCD (yes, an LCD, not a TFT) ever. I was constantly losing the mouse pointer.

Re:Offtopic: Mouse Cursors

[raodin]

This is actually built into WinXP, too. There's an option to press the control key and it a shrinking circle around the cursor. Its not particularly useful, these days. (no one is using an ancient passive matrix monochrome laptop display anymore.. right?) I also remember using some software to do this on a really old powerbook I picked up. A better solution for your multiple, high resolution displays is to just use a bigger cursor.. At least thats what I'd do.

Re:Offtopic: Mouse Cursors

[mrseigen]

I thought there was a tool in the Windows mouse panel that made the mouse give off flashy shiny circles or something, so you could find it on a crowded display.

Re:Just to get it out of the way...

[Alcohol Fueled]

You forgot the whole I, for one, welcome our new Windows CE.NET on Microsoft XBox overlords one.

YHBT YHL HAND

[arcadum]

LOL

Har har

[Error27]

And people said that Windows wasn't as portable as Linux or NetBSD. What do you have to say now, punks?!

Re:Har har

[MacDust]

Yea, great. Now you can get Blaster and SoBig on your Xbox. Great...

Finally a legal reason to get a modchip!

[samdaone]

'Nuff said

Simple...

[Wheaty18]

Windows isn't as portable as Linux or NetBSD.

Re:Simple...

[ruprechtjones]

heh heh. oh come on, why aren't the good ones ever modded up? dry witty humor, Wheaty's post has it all. Thanks for the chuckle.

Re:Just to get it out of the way...

[Alcohol Fueled]

What's wrong dear sir?

Of course it was /. !

[UncleRage]

There I was, minding my own business, gathering some ideas on what next to do to my xbox...

All of a sudden I can't load a bloody forum posting.... what the hell?!?

Look over at the hub... nope, we've got lights.

Look over at the cabel modem.... nope, Adelphia doesn't suck tonight.

Quickly check my router, drop and reclaim my dhcp connection. Everything fine there.

Hell, guess they forgot to pay their hosting bill this month. Might as well stroll on over to /. and see what's up tonight...

Oh, look. An article pointing to Xbox scene. Guess that explains it... ;)

----
Uninformed opinions are like steaming piles of feces; best to be avoided.

New slashdot cliche?

[Rob Simpson]

"But does it run WinCE?"

Re:New slashdot cliche?

[teamhasnoi]

Gotcha beat.;)

Whats the point?

[insmod_ex]

Seriously, what the hell is the point? What is Windows CE possibly good for besides a handheld device. A webpad is what Windows CE is for, NOT the Xbox. When Windows XP is running on an Xbox(which will NEVER happen), then I will be impressed. But Windows CE, its kinda useless.

Re:Whats the point?

[mabhatter654]

but CE is more suited to the Xbox ecosystem than XP is... you don't need to play games...It's an Xbox, so all you really need is a quick way to get web browsers, email, productiviy apps, etc. I suspect that MS may even look the other way on this one...it would increase Ce share, because you can BUY CD based apps in most computer stores now days! Xbox having a HDD, you'd have something to sync too...for cheap college kids, or teens it'd make a great tool for simple things like email or reports...Xbox can even use PC monitors out-of-the-box with no hacking! Get USB printing and other devices working (remember that CE has some ability to use "normal" Win32 drivers!) and you could even print, scan, digital camera, etc. and you've got decent CE apps to run on it.

I'm only surprised MS hasn't released something like this sooner. That said, using the actual XDK might be useful even with restrictions...I'm sure that XboxOS is VERY CLOSE to WinCE under the hood...probably more than MS would ever admit to. this project may be easier than he's making it!

Re:Whats the point?

[davidstrauss]

I'm sure that XboxOS is VERY CLOSE to WinCE under the hood

Actually, it's a Windows 2000 kernel. The Dreamcast did run CE, however.

Re:is it frosty?

[jasonditz]

you know something we don't? I never heard them make that demand.

My 2 q's

[ScoreZX2]

With every one askiny why, I ask: "Why not?"

And I would like to know, does it still play Xbox games? I would love to use a mouse/keyboard/joystick for some games.

If it can, this would be like combining the Xbox with PDA and web TV. I think this is the best thing to happen with to the Xbox.

Why do this? More options, the better.

Re:Anti-leech

[telecaster]

When they port Microsoft Bob to the XBox, then I'll really be impressed.

Yawn....

It goes without saying...

[GuruHal]

1) Windows CE on Xbox
2) ???
3) Profit!!!

Ya maybe for Microsoft...

What this means

[phreak03]

Before all the trolls start whine about, "why mod an xbox"
need i remind you that for well under $200
you have
*legaly (sorta)
-divx player with composite outputs.
and support to stream for every major streaming protacal, from your network hard drives

-mp3 jupebox with shoutcast support (xbox media player)
decent ftp server

*illigaly
-a nintendo, SNES, GENesis, gameboy advance, N64 emulator (put a couple thosand games)
-Can copy games to the hard drive and play them
have a nice, cool dedicated linux box running gnetoo, mandrake or one of like 3 decent distros

The hardware is a 733celeron (copermine core, good on power and heat)
64megs of ram shared between apps, and Video ram
a modified Geforce 3 core (good enough)

For those of you that whine, "it can't play burned disks"
either replace the drive, or buy one that has a samsung drive in it, they play all media just about.

Re:What this means

[bhtooefr]

Actually, it's a 5.5*133 Celery (as in it has a 133MHz bus, but is otherwise a Celery), as opposed to an 11*66 Celery.

BTW, you can add two more SDRAM ICs for more RAM in this box.

I'm still not buying one.

[dmitrygr]

I am not buying one until they get QDOS working on it.

Re:Seriously

[emo boy]

No way. The next Xbox will not be as standard of a pc as this first version was. Secondly there's not enough RAM in the Xbox to run Windows XP that well anyways and it's not upgradeable...yet.

Here's one you forgot...

[CreateWindowEx]

1. Port Windows CE to modded Xbox

2. ???

3. Profit!

Re:Seriously

[emo boy]

No it won't. First off the Xbox does not have enough RAM to comfortable run Windows XP for any useful purpose. I can't even get Debian to run very quick on it. Secondly the next Xbox will not have such standard hardware in it. There will be more crazy stuff to deal with.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/34498.html

Porting XBOX hardware to 'USB' - OT, I know

[teamhasnoi]

I'd like to convert the nifty remote control to usb for my PC - any one know where I could find a link for that? All those accesories are usb, aren't they?

So this isn't completely OT, I don't own an xbox, but I'd buy one if it ran beos - windows CE is so 1999. :P

Re:CowboyNeal is RACIST

[pandrijeczko]

More importantly, he also seems to be JAADWNITS* *Just Another Arogant Dickhead With Nothing Interesting To Say.

JPEG screenshot should be banned

[hey]

Isn't it time start using PNG?!

Re:JPEG screenshot should be banned

[bhtooefr]

It's GIF that you have to worry about. Also, why use PNG when the shots were PHOTOS, and most likely taken with a digicam, which defaults to JPEG? Doesn't make ANY sense to convert it to PNG - it'd probably increase in size.

Re:JPEG screenshot should be banned

[ScottSpeaks!]

the shots were PHOTOS

That's a relief to hear! I was beginning to wonder why anyone was buying Xboxes, with video-out as crappy and blurry as those screenshots! ;)

Actually......

[agent2]

Actually, you can solder your own individual SDRAM IC's (up to 2 more) into the XBOX.

windows on your console?

[demonhold]

OK, somebody explain this to me....

what's the fun in the blue screen of death showing up in the middle of your playing?

what's the fun of having to reboot your console every 10 hours because the whole thing freezes?

Re:windows on your console?

[42forty-two42]

what's the fun of having to reboot your console every 10 hours because the whole thing freezes?

If you've been using your console for 10 hours, perhaps you have larger problems?

Now if

[batlike]

..we're going to use the XboX as a PDA, we're also gonna need to invest in new shirts with bigger breast pockets.

Re:Anti-leech

[bhtooefr]

If they can get VMWare running on XBoxLinux, then they can run Windows 3.1, and then progress to running Bob on top of that. Of course, if they can get even Windows 9x/ME running on the XBox, that'd work too...

Tell you what

[mcpkaaos]

You keep your xbox running Windows. Someone give me Windows running xbox games. =P

Quit it!

[kevjava]

Seriously. Stop that. Seeing that the XBox uses PowerPC chips now, you're going to start these Microsoft developers thinking they can port Windows XP to my Powerbook.

This is too funny

[TheCabal]

Oh, the hypocricy!

People going on and on about "why bother" porting WinCE to XBox, but ask them the same thing porting Linux to Xbox or other gaming platforms and you best done your asbestos underwear. I guess Slashdotters don't like it when the shoe is on the other hand.

Re:Of course it was /. !

[raodin]

Usually if a page doesn't load, I just try another website to see if its my connection... :)

My Eyes!

[ZipR]

Gaming on a TV is bad enough. Computing on a TV? My eyes would explode.

(Of course, for years I used a cheap Sears TV as the monitor for my Atari 600XL/130XE, but those computers were made for TV output, so they weren't so fuzzy...)

Specific Advantage to CE

[Glamdrlng]

One of the primary advantages of CE is that it doesn't ship with craploads of unnecassary services/features, etc. It's a lightweight platform, and it's great for a thinclient running RDP to get to a Term Services box. I kow I'm probably opening the floodgates for flames from the citrix crowd, but if an organization has enterprise licensing from MS, it's kinda dumb to also pay for citrix licenses. Besides the inherent efficiency of a lightweight platform, the platform is also more secure by not having so many extra services to keep patched.

Lemme get this straight....

[JFMulder]

... Now I have to hack a piece of Microsoft hardware to run a piece of Microsoft software? Hmmm...... right.....

License costs

[ByteSlicer]

It takes a lot of work getting a WinCE kernel running on an unsupported hardware platform, so I salute the guys who did this.
However, M$ will still require you to buy a license for each hardware platform onto which you deploy an OS image.
Also, PocketPC applications are ARM4-based, and will therefore not run without recompilation on the x86 processor.

Waiiiiit a minute...!

[Atario]

What if we ported Windows to the PC??

... has to be said ...

[hswoolve]

Can you imagine a Beowulf Cluster of these?

wince.net warning

[hiroshi912681]

just a warning for you guys... I think wince.net messed with the internal clock on my system... so, be sure to go into the MS dashboard and fix the clock back, otherwise games may not load properly (Grand Theft Auto: VC for example, freezes at the loading screen).

Re:wince.net warning

[hiroshi912681]

also, I've heard that people got their save games corrupted with the funky date (after they tried to save)... so, tester beware!