Apple Users Threaten to Sue Over iBook, iPod

An anonymous reader writes "Reuters is running a story about failing Apple hardware. 'Can a few bad apples -- like product quality complaints and potential lawsuits -- spoil the bunch for loyal fans of Apple Computer Inc. ahead of their biggest party of the year? As enthusiasts devoted to Apple prepare to descend on San Francisco next week for the annual Macworld conference, at least two online petitions have collected hundreds of signatures from potential plaintiffs seeking to file lawsuits over claims of defects in the iBook laptop.'" Yay, online petitions, the most effective way to effect change in the world.

Comments

Why The Commotion?

[paxcirca]

Out of the computers I've owned in, let's say, the past twelve years, only one has never had any sort of problem - and it was a Compaq. Last time I checked, Compaq wasn't exactly well known for well-built computers. The computers that have had something wrong include an Epson, an Acer, a Gateway, two Apples, and probably another one or two that I can't remember.

Even though my two main Macs have had one problem each, Apple's technical support has been nothing short of stellar. I purchased a PowerMac in August of 2002. The machine had some display problems. Apple two-day shipped me a replacement video card and DIMM. After those didn't solve the problem, I had to take the machine into a shop. Once I got the machine back (it apparently had a bad processor daughter card), I found that the local shop had broken my video card. Apple overnighted me a new video card - a video card better than my original one.

I'm sure my story isn't indicative of everyone's experiences with Apple's technical support, but I'm also sure that Apple's high technical support marks from major computer magazines isn't illusory, either.

Re:Willful Ignorance

[XBL]

I have had the problems also. It pissed me off it happened not long after warranty went out.

The numbers of people having these problems are really starting to come into focus.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ibook123/petition. ht ml
has almost 1900.

http://blackcider.com/
has 1200.

Of course, a lot of these people are going to be the same on these petitions, but that is a lot of people to be having a *serious* defect on a computer.

If Apple said, "Ok, lets fix them all, warranty or not", and the fix was $500, then it would cost Apple $1,250,000 for only 2500 units. No wonder why Apple doesn't want to deal with this problem!

iPod Battery FAQ

[daveschroeder]

http://ipodbatteryfaq.com/

dead ibook

[austad]

I just sold my old G3 (just out of warranty) iBook on Ebay and bought a new G4 model. I sold it back in November, and the girl who bought it emailed me asking about viruses or something. Said that it acted all strange and then died, and when she tries to turn it on she gets a blank screen. It turns out the symptoms it has are that of a failed logic board. Warranty ran out in sept, and it just died now.

Apparently the cost of replacing the board through apple is almost as much as just buying a new laptop. I feel kinda bad about it. But I guess that's the risk you run when you buy things out of warranty, which is part of the reason I got rid of it (which is the reason I used to justify buying a new toy). I hope it's not the logic board and just something that can be fixed easily, but all signs point to hardware failure.

Re:dead ibook

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell her to buy the extended warrenty from AppleCare. IIRC, you can buy the 3-year warrenty any time before the extended warrenty would normally expire... you just can't push the expiration date back. It always runs 3 years from the original purchase, no matter when you decide to buy it.

So for $250 she ends up getting the iBook fixed, plus whatever few months remain on the extended warrenty. As much as laptop computers get banged around, it's a good idea to get the longer warranty for a PowerBook or an iBook anyway.

Re:dead ibook

[Hank Scorpio]

One catch though -- you cannot purchase AppleCare anytime before the extended warranty would have been up, as you say. You must purchase it within the original warranty period. So that's no longer an option for her, unfortunately.

Established Mac sites leading the charge

[Zhe Mappel]

As the iBook scandal -- and scandal it is -- unfolds, Reuters is merely the first mainstream news outlet to take note. Online news sites are already attuned. The Register, for instance, reported a few days ago that iBook owners are planning to stage a protest at MacWorld this week.

Apple's own boards are buzzing with hundreds of posts. But the real action is at Macintouch.com and MacFixit.com, where both owner experiences and technical analysis are being shared as people try to understand why this is happening and decide what to do. If you have a problem iBook, try there. If you are thinking of an iBook purchase, better look there, too.

Why all the commotion? Simple: lots of iBooks broke down, then they broke down again, and through it all Apple has kept mum. Now, it's one thing when software, like Windows, performs crappily; people will endure an awful lot of that. When their shiny months-old laptop is going back for the second, third, or fourth logic board replacement, however, they tend not to be so forgiving.

Re:Established Mac sites leading the charge

[addaon]

They'll only do two logic board replacements (which is what they did for me). On the third one, they give you a shiny new computer, or a $1200 (or so, depends on what you bought originally) credit towards anything you want. I got the new computer. No complaints here.

Re:Wheat Thins

[IIEFreeMan]

Just a little precision : Applecare for iPod extends the 1-year warranty to 2-year not 3.

3 months warranty extension after repair

[motown]

Here in the Netherlands (not sure about the rest of the EU) it is mandatory by law for a company to extend the warranty with 3 months after a product has been repaired and returned to the customer. This extension is not cumulative, if the standard warranty doesn't yet expire for at least three months after the repair, there is no further extension, as far as I know (unless the repair time takes too long, in which case the customer should also be compensated).

If a similar law were to apply in the US as well, then I'm sure Apple would think twice about shoving this problem under the carpet, since not taking action would possibly cost them more money in fines and legal expenses than if they just fixed the ibooks even though they're just out of warranty. Not to mention the reputation and goodwill that would be at stake.

Is there a similar law in the US? Knowing how little the US government protects consumers from malevolent companies, there probably isn't.

Call us communists, but the simple fact remains that corporate interests are often not the same as consumer's interests. The customer's rights should be defended, and there is definately a role for the government to play here.

Have you considered buying AppleCare?

[werdna]

Apple's extended warranty program is very reasonable and their service quite fine. I'm really not sure what you are expecting from this rather straightforward business deal:

1) you pay a price for a computer. It is warranted to be free of material defects for a year, and they promise to repair or replace it during that period for free;

2) if you would like them to support the machine thereafter, you can pay a few hundred dollars to extend that warranty for an additional three years, more than the usual lifetime of any reaonable personal computer;

3) if you don't, Apple WILL repair your machine on a case by case basis -- they will fix a machine in generally ok condition for a fixed fee and, except for certain serious problems, that fixed fee (just a bit more than the AppleCare purchase by the way) will get you a virtually refurbished machine back.

That WAS the deal -- it was black and white. You didn't take the deal, and now have a machine that needs to be repaired. I understand that you would rather not pay for it. Aside from that, what, exactly, is your complaint?

Re:Whining about not buying Applecare? Be real!

[Squidgee]

Go to Blackcider.com, and read the "letter to CEO".

They would lose a class action suit badly.

[theflea]

I'm a tech for a school district, and I can tell you this problem is real and very very severe.

We have just about every kind of mac ever made, and overall their quality is outstanding. New imacs, old imacs, old clamshell ibooks, etc.

The MLB issue these dual USB ibooks are having are much worse than you'd imagine. We have about 150 of them, and we fully expect every one of these to die at least once. We've logged about 70 logic board replacements so far. Some machines have had two boards already.

Re:Whining about not buying Applecare? Be real!

[MoneyT]

I swear, the only thing that I can think of to explain these issues people have with Apple support is that they go in acting like an asswipe. I have dealt with Apple Care on numerous occasions from 1996 to now, for various reasons, be it personal or work related and I have only once encountered a person whom I felt was unhelpful, and the situation was remedied by hanging up and calling again. If you are polite with tech support and explain and cooperate with them, they have always been more than helpful in repairing and replacing parts.

A great example is I had an old clamshell iBook which was dropped and the latch which closed the CD-ROM door had broken. I called Apple, and technicaly speaking, drop damage is not covered by waranty, but when I explained what had happened, they gladly offered to repari the drive, and sent me an overnight box. 4 days later I got the iBook back with a new CD-ROM drive, and a note saying they had noticed some cracks starting in the front svreen bezel and had replaced that too. Free of charge.

And I'm not the only one, I know plenty of people that have never had a bad experience with Apple tech support, and I know others that could only tell you of one instance. I am led to believe that people are just stupid about what they're doing and they act like assholes to tech support.

Re:Willful Ignorance

[mithras]

I'd like to see a list of people who are perfectly content with their iBook (like myself).

Include me in your list of content iBook owners. I bought my 700 MHz 14" iBook in September 2002, and have not had one single hardware issue with it since. Oh, wait, my power adapter connector is bent a little bit, but that's because I stepped on the power cord and yanked it out of the socket on the laptop.

If my iBook had been my old PB 190cs, that would have probably pulled the socket off the machine. I, for one, think that the iBook is a pretty solidly-designed machine. I've dropped it several times, and generally used it every single day, and am still going strong even now that it's out of warranty. If something goes wrong, I'll pony up the bucks to get it fixed. It's a damn good laptop for all I require of it (remote access to my home network, creative writing, email, simple photo-editing, syncing my iPod...)

Re:Willful Ignorance

[EvlG]

If it's out of warranty, you pay for service.

What is the problem here???? If someone wants a longer warranty period, they should have paid for an extended warranty contract (like AppleCare)

My ghetto ibook repair

[Aliencow]

I had an ibook with a failing backlight (it was a motherboard problem though, not a cable) . After inspecting it it seemed like the problem was in an inner layer of the board, so not really easy to solder. Applying pressure on the board did make it work properly, so a few inches of electric tape later and I got me a cheap ibook!

Getting a good chuckle out of this

[FredFnord]

My workplace has about 15 Dell Latitude L400s. We got the three year extended warrantee on these things, and let me tell you, it's been well worth it. I believe that 8 of them have had motherboard replacements, 2 of them more than once. The fans have been swapped on every single one. The hard drives have been replaced on at least 7, and that's not counting the ones where people got larger hard drives so it's not on the original hard drive anyway.

There isn't a single week that goes by that I don't have to deal with one of these things shutting down, restarting spontaneously, overheating, making enormous amounts of hideous noise, or basically being contrary.

You know what? I can't find a single angry web site telling people not to buy Dells because of these Latitude L400s. I certainly can't find any lawsuits.

But since it's Apple, people expect the hardware to be absolutely perfect. And when it's not, they expect out of warrantee service for free. ('This product is warranteed against manufacturing defects for the period of one year'. Not 'this product is warranteed against manufacturing defects forever, and for any old way you can fuck it up including dropping it six feet onto concrete for the period of one year'.)

I honestly don't understand it. Are Apple fanatics really just that much more unrealistic than people who buy Windows machines? I mean, I'm a big Apple fan, even worked for them for a while, but I don't expect Apple's stuff to be perfect. And, from my experience, it's definitely better than the alternatives already.

-fred