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Extensive Xandros 2.0 Deluxe Review
Ms Pacman writes "This article is the fifth and final installment of Barry Smith's series on Debian-based commercial distros in a Small Office/Home Office (SOHO) environment. In this in-depth article, the newly released Xandros Deluxe 2.0 is being reviewed and compared to all previous distros Barry Smith used and reviewed the past 2-3 months. Of special interest is the blurb about Xandros' customer support."
The fact that the distros are competing among themselves as much as with Windows is disturbing; the linux market will only grow significantly if a large number of windows users get interested in Linux. If won't make much difference to Xandros that all Lindows users defect to them but it will be some effort. But any small number of Windows users adopting Linux will make a BIG difference. Granted distros still compete against each other to get the biggest slice of these new customers. But normally, industry lobbies (ever heard about the Agro business ?) fight united to make their common market bigger and make internal competition less cutthroat. Linux companies (and the author) don't seem to get it.
Final Decision:
Primary system - Libranet
Secondary system - Lindows
As nice as it is to have choice one things Windows brings it is a constant. Things normally work on most PC's. With each distro of Linux things aren't the same from one point to another which can be seen as a strength, however if things aren't careful it could come as a bad thing if infighting gets worse. Of course KDE and Gnome do help but in this case standard should be a good thing Rus
CPanel + Root from $35/mo - 10% off with discount code SLASHDOT
Screenshots here
Let me further clarify, all linux distros have a user base (size varies), and in that user base there are many things that bring a distro to its full potential. There are distro specific forums and IRC channels as well as distro specific webpages and 3rd party packaged binaries for specific distros.
You can't possibly learn about a distro completely until you've also had a chance to explore its community surrounding it. Such as debian, redhat, and mandrake I know have special file and community repositories for such things as music ripping and DVD playback. While not included in the distro did you know that with a broadband connection and in one command you can turn your brand new installation into a fully functioning multimedia system?
Then theres the all important part of linux, the security aspect, while some installers download updates in the install perhaps a review of the distributions updater and the time for the updates for security notices to hit the repositories would be nice to have.
I stopped reading OS news because it wasn't anything about actually using operating systems it was just a club of people who wanted to say that they installed every operating system they could get their hands on and they watched it boot.
In closing the last part of this entire article that urked me was that the reviewer didn't even bother to take a look at Knoppix (maybe they did, but it wasn't in the wrapup summary and I'm not searching osnews to find out). If they only want to use an OS for the time it takes to grab a screenshot and find out that something doesn't work just like redhat then possibly knoppix would fit their operating system attention span. At least with knoppix their poor overly formatted harddrive would get a break.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
.. and I like it a lot. I've used it pretty much only on IBM laptops, and the Radeon 3D support is quite lacking. Other than that, it's a dream to work with and use, especially for an experienced Debian user. Xandros has been my primary work desktop since 1.0 and I'm sold.
Besides, as far as I know it's my only option if I want a made-in-Canada distro.
WinEthernet? I did not know such existed
HOW'S MY POSTING? CALL 1-800-POSTING
I mean, I support open source and everything, I just can't afford $40 now
>> You can't possibly learn about a distro completely until you've also had a chance to explore its community surrounding it.
The market these consumer distributions are targetting -- home and corporate desktop users -- have little reason to be aware of any pseudo-community surrounding a distribution. If a distribution requires people to go online and start asking questions before it works, it is a failed distribution.
Linux enthusiasts and hobbyists comprise these so-called communities. These are people who are interested in Linux for its own sake, not as a means to an end. These are the people who will install a new OS just to play with it. On the other hand, pretty much everyone else could care less. For the people these distributions are targetting, Linux is about as interesting as their refrigerator. They don't want to depend on a refrigerator community, either.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
He mentions towards the end how happy he is w/ Libranet since nothing in Libranet is proprietary code. As far as I know their (wonderful) XAdminMenu utility is NOT released under the GPL.
This guy is way out there
What is the market for the Lindows/Xandors distros? I mean, I know what they describe as their audience, but I don't see much market presence. People who tend to not want to worry about the details of their software ("it just works") seem to be using the Windows that came preinstalled on their systems. The techie crowd seems to have zero interest in these types of distros also. I would be surprised if Lindows and Xandros are still around in two years. It seems the Sun/Novell (Suse) approach of focusing on business desktops has more momentum.
"If God created us in his own image we have more than reciprocated." - Voltaire
yeah, someone remove that screenshot link...
How to Speak Leet
Simply the most insightful post I've seen in a long time. While an extensive community knowledge base is a nice "feature", it shouldn't be necessary to get the distribution to do the basic necessities.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
5. GENERAL RESTRICTIONS:
The user may permanently transfer all of the rights under this EULA, provided that the user retains no copies or registration numbers, that the user transfers all of the Software Product, and that the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA. The user may not distribute copies of the Software Product to third parties. The user may not rent or lease the Software Product. The user must maintain all copyright notices on all copies of the Software Product. The user may not reverse-engineer, decipher, decompile, or disassemble the Software Product, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation.
Kinda defeats the whole purpose behind GNU/Linux, don't you think?
Problem is that you can't get people 'hooked' on packaging. There's no Linux distro that could ever really hook users, because there's many other choices that are largely the same, give or take some utils/packaging/menus/themes/whatever. Sure you want to standardise on one choice, but you're not locked in. That's the point ain't it. There's no real hook there.
The only way I can see people getting nicely baited and hooked would be if a distro-maker actually had some guts to customise things more, stop packaging so much shit, break a bit of compatibility, and stop rehashing the latest versions of the same old stuff release after release. Hmmm, kinda like Apple. They took the FreeBSD distro and did something genuine with it, and it gets users hooked.
We have used Xandros/1.0 for 6 months or so on our systems, and it was already wonderful. Xandros/2.0 went onto a couple of new systems last week and is simply excellent.
If you have to support MS Office, go for the professional version, which comes with Crossover Office, a decent way of running MSIE, MS Office, and some other applications. It's Wine plus some extensions, and well-integrated into Xandros.
If you don't need this, just go for the basic package.
The best thing about Xandros is that it combines the 95%+ device detection we're starting to expect in modern distros along with a clean and lean Debian-based chassis. You get simple graphical installation of the standard Xandros packages, plus access to everything in Debian unstable via the normal apt-get interface.
The Xandros/2.0 file manager handles pretty much everything you can throw at it. It mounts everything it can, lets you burn CDs, map network drives, and so on.
Just for fun I installed a Lindows 4.5, then took a deep breath, and wiped it with Xandros. Lindows is so *full* of stuff, while Xandros shows the meaning of "less is more".
There is no shame in paying for good software, and Xandros/2.0 gets my vote as the best office distro of 2003. Install it, forget about it. You can't ask for more.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
...if Xandros' Crossover Office runs Microsoft Access? Love or hate it, a lot of quick and dirty internal apps are written in Access. Unless it functions correctly, Xandros' Crossover Office support is not useful. I personally already use OpenOffice for all my document needs, even though I have copies of Microsoft Office. And being able to run Internet Exploder is not a plus. (Well, maybe for testing. But that's about it.)
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
This is from a post I made on osnews, but it fits for Xandros as well.
Personally I think if your new to Linux you should stay clear of distros like Suse, Lindows, Xandros etc. Try Fedora,Mandrake, or maybe Debian with that new progeny installer first. If your going to bother to ditch Microsoft and their Proprietary Windows might as well do it right. These distros are as good Xandros et al and are Truely Free and totally Open Source. That might not mean too much to you, but long term its REALLY important. Being Truely Free and Open is what got Linux and its ever improving Desktops where they are today. Having the core of say Gnome of KDE proprietary would have just held these products back and prevented them from becoming what they are now. If for example a key developer of Gnome came up with some ubber cool addon for Gnome that made it great and then was hit by a bus or decided to stop coding, Boom. There goes Gnome's neat feature because it can't be maintained or built into future versions of Gnome. You'd think this is just common sense to Slashdot visitors, but I'd bet my life that of the overwhelming number of IE users here some still don't get open source.
To be frank, I'd propose that if your set on cutting a check to Xandros you might as well buy Windows XP. At least that way you'll get a decent stable proprietary desktop that will be around in a few years. Going with one of these semi-proprietary Linux distros is just trading one fault for another. Your just buying into closed technology which literally may or may not even have a future. When/If Xandros goes out of business who is going to be making updates to its proprietary packages? Like I said, long term it just makes NO sense being tied to these sorts of issues.
All proprietary software is Not evil and when it comes down to it, you need to use what gets the job done. You won't hear me rallying against some neat game because its closed source. But please don't shortchange how important Truely Free and Open Source software is to the world and especially Linux. If your going to start using Free software at least "try" to go all the way and see how far you can get with open source. Using and promoting this type of software is what got Linux where it is today and its what is leading to better software for ALL of us now and in the Future.
Haha didn't any of the mods click his screenshot link??
What's wrong with his screenshot link. That's actually Xandros running. Yes, that's Microsoft Office you see. Xandros includes Crossover Office as a standard feature, so seeing Windows software is a somewhat normal thing.
Or should this have redirected me to large holes or something?
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Does it run DataDino?
Why should I pay for something at an extraordinary $89 when I don't know how good it even is?
I think i`ll burn a copy from kazaa, and try it out first, THEN i'll consider paying for the next version.
--- any post that takes longer than 20 seconds to write, isn't worth writing
Nobody (except perhaps Ellison and McNealy) wants to see a desktop distro, other than Windows, that is usable by non-misterwizard types.
I've been keeping my eye on Xandros for some time, as I thought that they were the most likely candidate to build a non-sucking desktop distro. Roots are with Corel, a technically superb company that couldn't market. Xandros's focus was on an easy-to-use GUI desktop from the beginning; all of the other distros that I know of either started with a view towards misterwizards or a hatred of Microsoft - not a recipe for success.
The problem is that Xandros needs to capture the hearts of nerds before it can be successful at spreading out to the masses - this has been true of all micro-based hardware and software, and even how Micrsoft became what it is. In the case of Xandros, the average nerd must have it in his head that "Oh, grandpa wants a cheap computer, I'll use Xandros". However, if the average nerd never uses Xandros, Xandros won't gain mindshare. And if one has to shell out cash just to try it, very few nerds will try.
For example, I'd be interested in checking out Xandros to see if it would make a good OS for my non-tech-savvy friends and relatives. It might even be good for my personal use, if it has fonts-that-don't-suck, i.e., fonts that are as good as those that Windows had eight years ago. But am I going to shell out $89, along with my time to test it out?
No.
The only glimmer of hope here is that the Xandros main download page states "Xandros Desktop OS is not currently available as a free download". I suspect that "currently" means that free is Plan B. Since momentum is such a precious thing and so easy to lose, I hope that Plan B takes effect in the very-very-near future, or I fear that Xandros is history.
A shame, and a big blow to Linux on the desktop.
Even if in your eyes the distro would be failed, at least the user would have a good opportunity to go and look for help. Often the hardest part is knowing where to look, because the help systems in linux are sadly lacking in functionality.
is also made in Canada
constant crashing, lol.
is a decent distro - I switched from RH 7.x in an attempt to get my family to switch over (didn't quite work). Good: networking, Debian, stable, mostly intuitive. Bad: older version of KDE. Looking forward to finding a few Ben and getting the upgrade.
Right now, the insane variety of choices available is just a sign of the relative immaturity of the solutions. Unifying at this time would be detrimental to the overall efforts. I'm all for waiting for the right time. If that means losing the impatient opportunists along the way, then so be it.
For instance, when Linux is really truly ready for the mainstream desktop, when the office software has standardized and the features solidified (for instance), it should be because of an obvious evolutionary progression. There's no need to rush things.
Many statements, yours incluced, seem to make it sound like time is running out on OSS. This is not true. OSS will exist independently of active support and big monetary investment. It started from that state and will return to that state if necessary.
Okay, so the OSS community is not timeless. It would be nice to see OSS become the mainstream in our lifetimes, but that's not a reason to rush into things.
To mangle a famous quote:
"Do you hear that, Mr. Gates? That is the sound of inevitability." -- Agent Tux
-- All views expressed in this post are mine and do not
-- reflect those of my employer or their clients
After trying out Debian itself a month or two ago, I received Xandros 2.0 from my wife for Christmas. I am much happier with it than the author of this review was.
Shipping
We also had some shipping issues. Namely, my family had "Christmas morning" early this year when my sister was in town. Xandros didn't make it in time due to the release delay. I did receive it on December 23, however, the same day that the reviewer did. I too welcomed the manual, and I read almost the whole thing.
Installation
I had no problems whatsoever with the installation. Everything just worked. With the Debian install (my only previous Linux installation), I had a few things that took a few hours of reading on the web before I was confident that I had configured them correctly. As can be expected from an end-user OS like Xandros, everything just worked on its own. I do like that they give the option to tinker, though. I considered partitioning my drive myself, and selected that option. I was pleasantly suprised to be given a graphical partioner, instead of being dumped into fdisk. When I changed my mind, I just hit Back and chose their default.
The reviewer spends two days ranting about how his CD ROM drive didn't work with the default installation, and how Xandros didn't provide support for this on the day after Christmas. Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't seem like it was nearly a big enough deal to go on about it for that many pages. I know he got better support from another distribution, but that distribution sounds like just one guy. What happens when that guy has a heart attack? This bad experience on install seems to have tainted the whole rest of the review.
Networking
Xandros (well, Samba) is far better than Windows with networking, in my experience. Our home network has six computers - four running Win2k, an old Win98, and my wifes work laptop via WiFi when she brings it home. They connect via a Netgear router and an Intel hub. Using Windows networking, her second Win2k machine can see my second Win2k machine on the network, but I can see hers back. My Win98 machine can see her primary Win2k machine. That's it. Network browsing doesn't find anything else. Searching finds nothing else. We have to manually move the printer cable between computers because the stupid Windows machines can't see each other, and we transfer things between machines using FTP because that's the only thing that works.
With Xandros, I was quite impressed that it autodetected and set up my printer. I was even more impressed when I shared it, and lo and behold, my wife's primary machine saw the printer, configured it, and printed on the first try. We haven't been able to do that with Windows for years.
Windows Compatibility
As someone who is trying to move from Windows to Linux, the compatibility is very important. I am simultaneously moving to OpenOffice, so I don't need to install Word or anything, but I still use other Windows programs (TaxCut, for example) and want those to keep working. I do wish that Xandros had better Windows game support, but I know I can buy WineX for that. (Maybe Codeweavers will work on this eventually.)
Xandros Networks
Other than the limited number of distributions, I have to say that I am quite impressed at this. It worked wonderfully for me for the things that I chose to tinker with. I was also pleased that I was able to immediately go online and get all security updates for everything I had installed. This is one of my big fears about Linux that had kept me from trying it for so long - the knowledge that I didn't know enough to keep it secure without help.
Hardware Support
Quote from the article:
>> I may be wrong, but I don't think I have ever been able to use a Windows box to access a network shared printer that was hooked directly to a Linux box before. Of course, this may simply be evidence of my own ignorance of proper networking. I toss this out for whatever it might
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
Too much competition fragments the struggling market. IT only breeds confusion in the people we want to bring on board.
We need one unified platform to be able to truly compete and capture market share away from the 'alternative'.
Later, sure we can have some healthy competition to advance the quality and technology, but now isn't the time.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
No joke, I interviewed with them to setup and run their Tech Support department. I was totally underqualified(but might have succeded anyway) so it's probably good that I did not get it...
I still like the company thou.
On Arrakis: early worm gets the bird. Magister mundi sum!
You say how much better truly open source is, then you suggest getting Windows XP. Xandros looks great, most people don't care that it contains closed source or not, what it comes down to is what OS is best for you, Xandros is great, combining the great applications of Windows (and therefore being great to slip into businesses) as well as Windows' ease of use, that combined with the 'power' of Linux.
--- any post that takes longer than 20 seconds to write, isn't worth writing
The best part is when I upgrade her hardware I won't have to go back and beg MS if I can please use the OS I already paid for. Sure it needs work and Xandros needs an attitude check, but it's a good distro all the same.
I agree with the article author that Xandros needs to fire their lawyer. The EULA gave me Redmond flashbacks. And the Xmas tech support fumble was a disaster. If they don't execute better they will go out of business. But in the meantime I have a great OS that's a breeze to install and does everything I need right now. If they don't make it or if they don't change their MS-esque behavior I'll look for another one. No problem.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
That's what I like about slashdot.
Sometimes wishing something was free and open gets you an "Interesting" or "Insightful"
Sometimes you are labelled a troll.
Karma means nothing to me, so suck it...
Posting as AC for obvious reasons.
Does anyone know if Xandros Network checks to see if you've registered? I "acquired" a CD image of 2.0 deluxe (thanks Overnet) and would like to try it out.
Which of the distros will welcome all those lusers who were just left with no support for their old Win98 boxes ? Countless of them are still used in those SOHO environments
So, which distro will best welcome those users with open arms ? You know, low-end systems, of Celery333 age, couple of gigs of HDD and 64MBs of RAM.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashdot.org Errors found while checking this document as HTML5!
Please pay attention, will you? My post was a real response to a real post by an AC. Just because it looks like I'm responding to myself at +1 does not mean my post is a troll. Besides, if you're moderating, you should be browsing at 0 or lower. Anything higher is a failure to do your job.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Sit around and watch for a while. Change your sig and it will change the sig on your prior posts as well.
Mad Penguin has released an awesome review of the newest Xandros desktop. I found it here