Slashdot Mirror
Memo Confirms IBM Move To Linux Desktop?
m5shiv writes "The Inquirer is reporting on an allegedly leaked internal memo from IBM CIO Bob Greenberg discussing IBM's move to a Linux desktop: 'Our chairman has challenged the IT organization, and indeed all of IBM, to move to a Linux based desktop before the end of 2005. This means replacing productivity, web access and viewing tools with open standards based equivalents.' The enemy of my enemy is my friend?"
The enemy of my enemy is .. useful.
you'd think with all those developers using KDE or GNOME or whatever.. there'll be someone who re-invents the wheel again =P
The road between democracy and tyranny is paved with secrecy in the name of security.
Does it run linu.... oh
Help Fight SPAM today!
Its nice to see that the chairman has made a stand but has also made sure that they will remain compatible to the rest of the business world. As much as we might all like Linux to survive in the business world we need to be able to speak what everyone else speaks. It might be good to have the moral high ground but its no good if you can't read your suppliers documents Rus
CPanel + Root from $35/mo - 10% off with discount code SLASHDOT
Interesting, but I wonder who it was that leaked the info? I'd sure hate to be that person :)
Anyway, I'm glad that Linux is actually being recognized by large companies such as IBM as an option for this.
Domain name registration for $8.79 per year
879domains.co
IBM's a large, large company with abundant resources in the area of software design. They've got the ability to tailor-design an OS to the needs of their company and deploy it enterprise-wide, and with Linux and friends, do it without losing much cross-platform compatibility.
A similar switch might be tougher for other large organizations with widescale Windows deployments, where a few lightly-customized Win2k images might be the most they can currently support.
They'll come around eventually...
Yes, in about 20 years big blue has changed from the evil empire (with some saying it was beeing challenged by upstart Microsoft-although I never would have thought) to a worthy comrade in open-source armor. Way to go, IBM, for taking the final plunge.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
A big company such as IBM switching to Linux is sure to bring good things to the community. Perhaps this is the first major step in bringing Linux to the desktop market.
Just think of how much better the 1990's could have been if the entire IBM organization pre-empted Windows 95 by 3.5 solid years.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
Another internal memo leaked from SCO to all employees: "First one to find a way to sue IBM for this is employee for the month"
As i see it this can only serve to help encroach Linux on the user desktop OS market dominated by M$.
Think of it - if the whole of IBM starts using a well designed desktop system, i'm sure a lot of other companies will follow suit.
This really is what Linux needs - a HUGE and well known company using not only a Linux user dekstop system but also assocaited open source applications to get things done in everyday business, while managing NOT to use any M$ products whatsoever.
And if successful and I never thought I'd be saying this but it could be the beginning of the end of Microsoft's total dominance in the desktop OS market.
That they use this oportunity to learn from any issues, take data from the user base, and add to Linux.
With any large deploy of a new system, there will be issues, and if they can correct those and/or customize it for there need in house they will make a great selling point for other corporations.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Why shouldn't IBM move to linux? They are basically fighting for linux against SCO (yes I know, it's about AIX, but linux is there too), if they are dumping so much money into killing/beating SCO, why not use the software they are fighting for themselves. They have the resources to develop and support it themselves.
(I guess that rates a big DUH!)
;-)
But the business reason probably has something to do with Longhorn shipping 2006ish, and avoiding paying an upgrade fee to MS for desktops for over 300,000 employees worldwide. Even if the upgrade costs them just $79 and they only have to upgrade 100,000 computers, they could still save a cool $7.9 million by switching to a Linux desktop.
You talk about an MS tax, an additional $7.9 million looks good on anyone's bottom line. I wish IBM good luck with this one!
Of course, if they got rid of PC's altogether and replaced them with 3270 terminals and daisy wheel printers, they would be able to save $$$ on desktop management costs.
Blogging Weight Loss, Distance Education, and more at verlin.com
Of course IBM could also see a huge cost savings over time as well, and provide a true real-world case for negating the ridiculous "TCO" whipping horse MS continues to fabricate results against.
IBM's internal email, expense reporting, project planning, etc. is already (supposed to be) Notes-based.
Take WebSphere...
...please!
I don't think this makes sense from a productivity standpoint. Most of us probably believe that linux wins a TCO fight with Windows, but that would not be the case if you had to develop all your basic tools from scratch, even for IBM.
No, this is about eating their own dog food. It's not a good message when you're pushing your product but you use other products. If IBM is to convince buyers to use Linux for typical desktop productivity work, they better use it themselves.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
This is just a ploy to extract a more favourable deal from MicroSoft...
In my wife's small business the only obstacle to going to a linux desktop is vender tools such as UPS worldship and Stamps.com, etc.
Does that mean there will be Linux version of the Notes client? IBM's whole internal communication and intranet applications depends heavily on Notes/Domino.
A couple facts from inside IBM. We've had a workstation build for Linux for quite some time, encompassing all basic business needs in IBM (Notes, corporate instant messaging, etc). Also, all of our HR and other internal applications are pretty much web and Java based, with a quiet directive that Mozilla will be our standard browser platform by 2005.
However, many groups use applications that cannot be replaced on Linux. My group, for instance, does nearly all of our work in Visio. I've looked at Kivio and others, and I can't begin to tell you how primitive they are. Also, at least my group does a lot of active development in Visual Basic to automate Visio and other programs.
Essentially what I'm saying is many basic users here may be able to move to Linux, but Windows will remain the primary client for the forseeable future, simply for the applications, integration, and relative ease of working with partners who use Windows.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
I remember a time when IBM was regarded with as much animosity as Microsoft is now -- perhaps even more so, but for different reasons. More recently, the geek-public opinion of IBM has begun to shift towards neutrality and an uneasy understanding -- where do we see IBM's role and public opinion going in the future, especially with their (seemingly) wholehearted adoption of open-source technologies?
filter: +3. Hey, look! all the trolls went away!
He shure looks like one!
Jokes apart, Gerstner put this guy on top and it's the one that managed the first sniffing ceremonies towards Linux. Do I see a pattern? Companies on the point of extinction like Apple and IBM (big companies... as far as mindshare and cultural relevance) literally resurrected the moment they embraced OSS and played by it's rules. Other companies like sun are fading away and nasty M$ (Yah, troll me... I'm spelling is M$... yes, I'm biased) is yapping in fear. Folks, it's our time. Old PHBs are retiring to Florida's golf resorts, the evangelized decision makers are making space for the new illuminati... I hate to say it, actually I'm not pleased by the "feast or fast" attitude of this industry, but the cosmological pendulum is swinging our way (I just hope I won't be put aside as these fools are today).
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
This can't be so unexpected. They have a nice Linux commercial on tv, featuring (among others) Muhammad Ali advising an attentive little boy: "Speak your mind, and don't back down." So, IBM switching to Linux desktops....not so unexpected. My Daughter loves the linux commercial, It seems to equate the use of linux with all the worlds best in their respective fields of expertice. As though God himself runs linux, (provided by IBM, of course.)
Really, the commercial is so good, it brings tears to your eyes, especially if you are a long-suffering linux advocate of sorts in a sea of micro-idiots.
Go Big Blue! It's about time for you to take back the innovation crown those monkeys in Redmond pretended to wear.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
And this is the one big problem with participants in the Open Source movement (note: not with Open Source, per se): There are many fine Open Source apps, but the majority of them are by developers for developers. We need to look more at what business needs out of Open Source. Hate PowerPoint? Well business wants it. Hate Access dB? Well, business loves it. And without any question, until OpenOffice addresses these issues full force, especially all the bells and whistle of Excel, "enterprise" businesses will not migrate the desktop. It really is going to be all about business applications if we want to win the desktop war.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
IBM stands to make a killing migrating companies to linux. This is a great chance for them to experience the migration for themselves in a way that sending a few engineers to remote sites never can, and it's probably a lot cheaper for the amount of knowledge they'll get out of it. Obviously this is more than just an experiment, but it clearly makes good sense for them to say to the world "We did it, and we'll help you do it too."
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
I believe IBM is in the GNOME camp.
/. ;-)
....
Yeah, I've heard that rumor, too. Probably here on
And it's the significant part. After all, linux is an OS kernel. It isn't a UI. The phrase "linux desktop" is utterly nonsensical. Any X-Windows "desktop" will run on linux.
The sensible thing for IBM or any other vendor to do is settle on a reasonably good window manager, and start building an integrated UI based on it. Gnome would work fine, as would KDE or Enlightenment or FVWM or CDE or
What wouldn't make sense if you're looking for a near-term market is starting your own window manager project. This would delay a lot of the integration work and put your "integrated desktop" package several years in the future.
This could be a deal with the devil for the Gnome folks, though. IBM has a long history of turning reasonable packages into bureaucratic monstrosities. If you think Gnome is bloated from featuritis now, just wait until you see IBM's extensions.
Has anyone here seen PL/I? Or used JCL?
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Actually, I worked at IBM when Uncle lou took over. It came close to knifing os/2 and releaseing the source code back then. Might have been interesting to see what would have happened had IBM done that.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Tell my boss that.
2000: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2001: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2002: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2003: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
Guess how 2004 is shaping up? Hint: he sent me a doc file this morning.
Need Mercedes parts ?
The biggest hurdle is gonna be migrating Lotus Notes. Pretty much the entire world runs off Notes within IBM. (Except the stuff on VM, which is being phased out...) R5 runs fairly well (but far from flawlessly) under Wine, but R6 doesn't work at all.
I work at IBM, and Linux is the only OS I use. It's a little rough in some spots, but ultimately workable. For me, the combo is:
SameTime (The Lotus Messenger) => Sanity (a Perl based clone)
Notes R5 => Notes R5 under CrossOver Office
MS Office => MS Office under CrossOver Office (when needed)
If Linux were the official desktop, that would be awesome.
Note: While I work at IBM, I'm not in any of the areas which decide these issues, and have no information is support or refutation of the rumors in the report. (But I can dream...)
Anybody remember the mid 1980s?
The Mac was gonna set the world on fire. It did desktop publishing to beat all hell. But not Lotus 1-2-3 so one got put in the graphics department and everybody else got PCs. And Lotus.
The Amiga was one of the neatest computers ever made, it outperformed the PC in every respect... but it never ran Lotus 1-2-3. Two businesses bought them and they were gone within 5 years.
Whatever software your idiot boss needs to run dictates the platform the company and businesses in general, will use. There are simply no exceptions to this rule.
Need Mercedes parts ?
Has anyone here seen PL/I? Or used JCL?
;-)
Yes to both, and I've also used PL/I. (As a matter of fact, I've done so on my Linux box right here, using the Hercules IBM/370 emulator -- but I've also done the real iron.)
And APL which originated at IBM.
That said, they've also come up with some pretty good stuff, just give me a minute to think of it... oh yeah, the Guidance and Control system for the Saturn V, for one
Seriously, that was the old IBM. Lately they've been much better at delivering what the customer wants rather than what IBM thinks the customer needs. IBM isn't going to create their own desktop -- especially not at this stage of the process, where this is deployment for internal use. And I imagine most of the custom client apps will be web and/or Java based.
Not that IBM doesn't know a thing or two about desktop design -- their CUA (Common User Access) object-oriented desktop architecture is/was great, one of the things that OS/2 fans still rave about (although IIRC the OS/2 desktop wasn't quite CUA).
-- Alastair
That may be, dude. And I wouldn't be shocked if IBM's Linux desktop solution is widely liked by the Slashdot crowd. But you have to admit that it's still a major step simply because it will draw a huge audience away from Windows, spurring more development by other companies for Linux. The users that then become experienced enough will probably stop using IBM's version in time, and the rest will still be using an OS that furthers Linux's reach.
ShaunDon
I don't understand the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" bit. So what, Apple made a big anti-IBM commecial back in 1984. Both Apple and NeXT embraced IBM by the late 80s and through-out the 90s.
:)
IBM created the PC and then basically "open sourced" the architecture. Who knows why they did this, because lots of people made big money off it, and IBM didn't see very much of that. So IBM made PS/2 and MCA(microchannel) and tried to wrestle the market back. Then they gave up and focused on providing business machines (servers). They kept starting and discontining their home computer lines. I can never remeber if they still make desktops, harddrives or laptops.
I'm not sure why IBM would be the enemy. They are pretty active in the open source community. They don't really "interfere" with our choices of systems.
Also I'm actually surprised to see this in the news. I foolishly assumed IBM already moved to using Linux a few years back. They seem to promote Linux enough at tradeshows and TV and magazine ads. I guess it's hard to promote Linux if you aren't willing to use it in your own company, perhaps this is just putting their money where their mouth is.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Yes, I am sure most of IBM's bookkeeping stuff is done on Quicken. They are probably thinking about upgrading to Quickbook if their growth continues.
Help fight continental drift.
However, as you could read from another article linked at the bottom of the original article, IBM is dropping Lotus Notes. I wonder what's going to take its place.
DT
Is this thing on? Hello?
Times have changed. IBM is no longer the monolithic giant that dominates and overtakes everything - they're at the size where either significant growth or significant growth loss is fairly difficult without catastrophic catalyst. They're no longer a significant threat to the 'little guy' either, as they used to be - and as MS is now.
Think about it. IBM has quite thoroughly embraced linux, and is moving in more of that direction every day. Linux's very core philosophy is that of openess and unrestriction - the very philosophies that monopolies fight against.
The only thing (at least from the business perspective) IBM gains by embracing linux is to move the power away from MS. From that point, where does the power go?
Well, obviously, it draws power from AMD and Intel and more towards IBM for PPC processors, since linux works just fine on PPC processors, but in terms of software, they gain nothing. You can't 'take' something that is given away, as linux is.
Instead of power migrating from MS to IBM in the rise of linux, power migrates to the people - the populace and citizens. That's democracy.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Performance is fine, features are fine. Everytime I read one of these, I grow a bit more frustrated.
The X Window system is possibly one of the best features in Linux right now, not to mention the number of applications (basically just about all of them) written to take advantage of it. The ability to remote the display is a powerful thing that allows for many compute options not easily done with single-user framebuffer based systems. (All of them are single user, unless you count some wierd dual head setup.)
We need to work harder at presenting Linux in a useable way, not stripping it to look like the other OSes out there right now.
X11 is what makes Linux a true multi-user operating system. It is a big part of where the power is. Why come all this way only to give up one of the core values?
Lets say we actually do this. All the new applications then get written for the frame buffer. Single users might gain some small benefit from a bit lower complexity (which can and will be solved in presentation), but everyone else loses. The money is in the corporate systems and that is where X11 plays hard. Application servers delivering applications to desktops over X11 are easy to administer and cost effective. Client-server just cannot compare really.
Rather than nuke one of our killer enterprise features to make Linux work for isolated single users, we need to continue to work hard at getting Linux in front of brand new users and schools. People that begin with Linux are not going to have any trouble with it. They will grow with Linux as it continues to mature, the result over time will be better for everyone.
Those running the current win32 systems are all going to want things the way they have them now. Giving that to them is not worth it because that is accepting their way at a lower cost, and that is just not what OSS is about. OSS is about powerful software with freedom built in from the beginning, not software designed around the competition.
We can continue to build Linux just the way it is now and slowly the others will either:
1.) See the light and join us,
or
2.) Continue doing what they are doing. (while paying a lot for the option of doing so)
Either way, OSS will continue as it has, which means tossing X11 (which making it an addon is doing) won't be worth it.
Linux is pretty easy now and we are only at the beginning! Lets keep it intact for a bit longer before taking such drastic measures.
Blogging because I can...
According to this article, IBM currently has 320,000 employees. With these numbers (I'll assume 1 system per employee avg.) and their clout/connection with ISVs, this is bound to ensure more business apps ported to Linux. I'm sure as a result of this, M$'s competitors will now be chomping at the bit to port to Linux to sell to IBM plus get them to promote their wares.
Excuse me for still having some scepticism in my brain, but if I was running IBM, I would have already set as much of this up as feasible by the back door and then announce publically that I was going to do it on a quite short timeframe. Then when I succeed I can go to other companies "look, it's predictable and safe". Companies hate change, employees hate change, it's risky or just plain annoying so if you really want to get the huge organisations to take this sort of a change seriously, you are going to have to be able to provide serious evidence.
Leaving scepticism (which was fueled by a comment refering to a base desktop build which already exists in IBM) aside, this is so logical it's simple! If IBM transfer their own business over to IBM's own software across the board, then they have a constantly provable business environment which they can sell and support on their own hardware. They can return to selling one stop shops, but by basing the underlying systems (as far as they commit to) on Free software, they completely disarm the feeling of being forced to choose between evils, you can choose a potential evil and feel free to walk away (well you might be replacing lots of hardware if you completely drop them) with your system. IBM could effectively start getting end customers to foot the bill for Free software development by IBM and the more of that work they are doing, the more of the work they are likely to get. The rules (well the licenses of most software they would be likely to use) prevent a monopoly, but IBM's power is huge and hence it could attract business to a monopolistic level, at least until a new tiger appears which can take it on in the newly expanded market. IBM don't need software licensing revenue, IBM can exist for the rest of time on it's name provided they can provide people with dependable solutions (i.e. they can charge a profit margin others would dream of, just because it's IBM).
What dissappoints me is that this all makes me recall many moments while I worked for Corel International Linux Support when I tried making people see the benefits of eating our own dogfood. I truly felt (though I mattered squat) they should have moved the next (or following if already too late) version of their Office and Draw suites to QT (or gtk, I only really say qt as they had already committed to KDE on the desktop and had peeople working on it) and start consolidating on their work. They were deciding what system to buy for the Linux Support desk, and I asked why they didn't just adopt a free one! Moving over all their hosting to Linux was another issue and one that was more important in their minds (and judging by netcraft it seems they achieved something there I wasn't expecting anymore). It was interesting however to watch the various reactions from managers to administrators, support staff to developers when they realised they had a bit of a Free software zealot in their midst! I even managed to get in my digs at visiting big-wigs (something makes me think that isn't why Corel left the country though). Corel had an opportunity, but they didn't even try (in fact I wonder why they even bothered starting with Linux if they weren't going to go down this route).
IBM would have to be insane not to try this. Really it is a case of when they feel they should make the jump to best effect, and if IBM feel that now is the time to do it, you can be sure it is very doable (for them) because egg on the face here could cost IBM massively and for a long time. I can't help feel that this has been in the works ever since they lost out on OS/2 and if the MS V Linux "Get The Facts" can be taken as evidence that MS is scared, this should be taken as evidence that MS should be petrified! If IBM do follow through with this, the impact in having all the IBM employees worldwide proficient with GNU/Linux/X/??/?? would be significant apart from the developments you would be sure would be seen in each piece o
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Does that mean that we'll actually see thinkpads with linux preinstalled, and for less than their MS-taxed siblings ?
You will find the commercial in realplayer, quicktime and mpeg for linux format here.
--> Insert Funny Sig Here
Nope. It's Ximian running RedHat. 7.2 I believe, whichever one came with the 2.4.9 kernal, don't remember.
and then we have Lotus Notes and Microsoft Office setup in Wine enivornments.
It's available for installation right now, however not everyone can use it because of certain applications that require specific things they've not gotten either emulated in Wine or replaced by a non-MS Specific application.
All you need is a diskette and about an hour and you too can wipe out your Windows Thinkpad or Desktop and off you go. Most of the engineering places that don't need a lot of the more verticle type applications like the Watson Labs and other labs have fully flipped to linux.
It's us types in the marketing/sales/customer facing environments that need specific apps that are holding us a back a bit.
Plus there's been no mandate. We all joke about it at tech conferences (I'm on the xSeries side) and such because everyone had 'heard' of this type of memo and a lot of our guys closer to using Linux more (IE not in the midwest but east and west coasts) have already converted over.
Most run VMware workstation to fire up windows on the rare opportunity that they need them. And the last guy I talked to about it as far back as August said he rarely ever needed to fire up Windows any more.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.