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The Walking Dead of Silicon Valley

Frisky070802 writes "CNN has a column about a liquidator who refers to thousands of Silicon Valley startups as the walking dead. It states: 'Pichinson, a self-described "doctor of reality" who helps liquidate companies, says he wouldn't have moved from Los Angeles to Palo Alto a few months ago had he not smelled more high-tech trouble looming.... "There's still another 6,500 to 7,500 companies out there who are among the walking dead."'"

26 of 247 comments (clear)

  1. Managers taking hostages? by fjordboy · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Sometimes, Pichinson and Sherwood's 60 employees are able to salvage troubled startups by cutting costs and training the executives to rethink their ways. Sherwood even brings in an FBI consultant specializing in hostage negotiation techniques to help management.


    This is possibly an idle curiosity, but how is having hostage negotiating skills going to help out management? Or are these tech firms even worse off than we thought?
    1. Re:Managers taking hostages? by swb · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Some companies fail because they have a stupid business model (or none at all), and no amount of business savvy can save them. But some fail because their management is in collective denial about their situation and management strategy.

      A hostage negotiator is largely a psychologist, and psychologists are fairly good with people in denial. Get management to snap out of it, realize that their strategy is in need of correction, and in some cases you can save a company that has at least a good idea.

    2. Re:Managers taking hostages? by Sivaram_Velauthapill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It wouldn't surprise me... I mean a lot of people probably have their compensation tied up with the company. Many people in dot-com companies worked for almost nothing. If the company restructures and the CEOs get off with very little damage (as they always do), some employees aren't going to take it lightly...

      Of course, I am not endorsing any of this. I'm just speculating on the situation..

      Sivaram Velauthapillai

      --
      Sivaram Velauthapillai
      Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places ;)
    3. Re:Managers taking hostages? by nathanm · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is possibly an idle curiosity, but how is having hostage negotiating skills going to help out management?
      I can think of two possibilities:
      1. The managers are worried about disgruntled, laid-off ex-employees going postal, or...
      2. The investors are treating the situation as failed startups who are holding their money hostage.
      Which is more likely? You decide.
  2. How does this compare..... by wpiman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    With other industries starting up? What percentage of restaurants fail? Bookstores? Coffee shops? Are these number way out of whack with business as a whole?

    1. Re:How does this compare..... by BillFarber · · Score: 4, Interesting
      With other industries starting up? What percentage of restaurants fail? Bookstores? Coffee shops? Are these number way out of whack with business as a whole?

      Something like 70% of all new businesses fail within their first five years.

  3. Small companies can still survive by Gary+Whittles · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Recently, I was inspired to look up an old company I use to work for. They employed about 12 people total.

    They had three sales people, three support people, on tester, one secretary, three programmers. One of the programmers doubled as their sysadmin. The support staff had to work on bugs for Q&A in their time between calls. They literally had clients that were some of the biggest lawfirms around.

    They made a product. They sold a product. They made money.

    The guys who started the thing took out personal loans to keep it going for awhile. He passed out profits back to the employees when times were good. Honestly, if there was a place to be promoted to or a position open when I was ready to go on I probably would have never left.

    Small companies can survive in the IT world. They just have to have half a clue in their heads to do it.

    Fill a niche, concetrate and expand along the niche not outside it, keep employee and overhead costs low (their building was nothing grand but I had my own office).

    This is basic business stuff that many companies still have no concept of.

    1. Re:Small companies can still survive by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      number 1...don't open shop in silicon valley! real estate is way to expensive there. Try someplace in the midwest where they still have the auto infrastructure of schools and empty offices for cheap. And your employees can live nicely off 30K-50K!

    2. Re:Small companies can still survive by denisdekat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So true and those are the ones that are. Here in San Francisco I see many folks purposely leaving big company services for small companies as all the folks they worked with got layed off and started their own companies. One example is my friend whose company shut down his division and stoped certain development services he was part of. He then contacted the ex clients and as he was ex employee he offered them same thing cheaper. Of course they took it ;) I see this happening a lot, and maybe I am idealistic about America, California, and San Francisco, but the real entrepeneurs will not go away :) There was money to be made, but only after they got rid of all that bloated middle management LOL

    3. Re:Small companies can still survive by fuzzybunny · · Score: 5, Interesting


      A couple of years ago, I was invited to join some colleagues in a payment technologies startup in Munich.

      This was a highly impressive bunch of people. The senior guys came from one of the major producers of financial transaction enabler platforms, which would be a core part of our offer, with a huge customer base. The management of that company was friendly with the guys starting ours, who had an excellent understanding of the technology and the field, and great customer contacts.

      We had backing from one of Germany's major prestigious conulting firms, and a very senior, respected politician, who would help us to many useful contacts in industry. No fixed costs, and a free office in one of the country's most prestigious locations didn't hurt.

      We had awesome ideas which could be translated into real-life technology pretty quickly (essentially taking existing components and putting them to fairly revolutionary use.) A lot of companies were really looking to do business with us. But we failed. Why?

      The "guys in charge" were an incredibly venal, slow bunch. They took about 6 months (!!!!) to come up with a semi-legible business plan, and refused any sort of capital, even angel funding, beyond what they themselves had put in initially (complete refusal to hand over any control, anyone?) They did not understand the concept of "do something, do anything to get started", including low-level use of free technology, such as improvised websites and initial customers, preferring to plan for pie-in-the-sky everything-must-be-perfect-before-we-move. Suck. A lot of startups die because they have crappy product, or work inefficiently, or a bad business model, or economic realities. Us? Our own goddamm fault, 100%, and I could kick some people for it (no, not myself, I was one of several people constantly screaming to DO SOMETHING, so I feel pretty vindicated, if disappointed.)

      It especially irks me nowadays to see a lot of the technology and processes that we came up with in our spare time (!) in use commercially, 4 years after we died miserably. My girlfriend started work in one of the big-howevermany consulting firms, and showed me a presentation they'd done that year for some eastern european telecoms and financial institutions, which went over like gangbusters. Not plagiarized from us, since someone was bound to do this stuff in the long run, but eye-popping nonetheless. If we'd only...

      The thing that bugs me so tremendously is the sheer wasted opportunity here. I have no mercy with all the crappy dot-coms that blowthedotoutyourass.com (look it up) was so bitter about--there was no reason for most of them to exist. But I really really hate it when a good thing dies for no really justifiable reason.

      Blargh.

      So your comment about "half a clue in their heads" is so spot-on I could spit.

      --
      Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
    4. Re:Small companies can still survive by taradfong · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have to play devil's advocate here. I've been part of lots of startups where I too thought that I had all the answers. And maybe I/you did. But this attitude can drive you nuts. So for your own sanity consider this...

      1) Ok, what they did didn't work. That doesn't mean your 'do anything to get started' plan would have necessarily worked either.

      2) The squeaky wheel does get fixed, that is, unless it just keeps squeaking. Then it gets thrown away for a nice, quiet one from India. Seriously, lingering bitterness just means you're cutting off future opportunities

      3) Yes, there was wasted opportunity. It's gone. Forget it. Look for the *next* opportunity! Or do it yourself next time and show them!

      --
      Does it hurt to hear them lying? Was this the only world you had?
  4. This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is more like an advert for his company... I wonder what this will have done to his stock price.

  5. The Walking Dead of ... India! by Channard · · Score: 5, Interesting

    With so many IT call centre roles being outsourced to India, why not utilize India's Walking Dead. Specifically, there's an army - pun intended - of people who are considered legally dead in India due to corrupt officials declaring them dead so their relatives could get their hands on their land. I'm not making this up.. see this story

  6. I would take his comments lightly... by mtrupe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This guy has an interest in tech companies going out of business. What is the difference between what he says and what the dot-commers were saying 3 years ago when they were constantly bragging about huge internet growth predictions?

    1. Re:I would take his comments lightly... by NineNine · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The difference is that this guy has real business experience, and has been successful. Dot-commers wouldn't know how to run a business if they were given a "Business for Dummies" book. This guy has done what he's doing before. Most dot-commers were either fresh-out-of-school marketing types or design types. Huge difference.

    2. Re:I would take his comments lightly... by ThinWhiteDuke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      True.

      Also, an important difference is that the guy is NOT trying to raise capital (AFAIK), which is the main incentive to overrate your market.

      Sure, such an article is a free ad and can't be bad for his business. But he has no desperate need to convince anyone that the market's gonna soar to gazillions.

      --

      It would be nice to be sure of anything the way some people are of everything.
  7. Hostage Negotiators ARE needed! by sracer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Have you ever had to negotiate salary and benefits with management? I imagine that many of these companies will try to get of their obligations. These hostage negotiators can convince you that you're getting everything you are demanding... right before they slap the cuffs on you.

    Sounds like a perfect skills match to me. ;)

  8. Chapter 11 protection by Zog+The+Undeniable · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I don't know a huge amount about US company law, but it seems to me that a lot of firms over there that file for Chapter 11 protection eventually emerge from it and become successful again, so the system works if the fundamentals of the business are good. Here in Britain, once you're seen to be insolvent (however temporarily), 99% of the time you're completely fscked.

    The guy in the article has at least saved a decent proportion of his client firms; it's pretty rare here unless you get a management buyout (e.g. Rover Cars - not exactly a roaring success). Most of the time the firm just shuts down and gets asset stripped. Oh well, we've never had anything *quite* as big as Enron.

    --
    When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
    1. Re:Chapter 11 protection by jj_johny · · Score: 4, Interesting
      But the guy's point is that there are tons of companies that even if you wiped out the debts, don't have enough cash or positive cash flow to make it in the long run. These companies are not going to get credit if they go through bankrupcy. Lots of these companies don't have significant debt anyway since they were VC funded - VC exchange funding for equity not debt.

      When I worked in Silicon Valley, there were tons of people who thought that they were smarter than they were, that theit product was better than it was and that the market was bigger than it is.

  9. Very . . . . Painfull . . . by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This story was painfull to think about. I am 23 years old, I have been laid off 5 times, 3 of those companies don't exsist any longer.

    • Directv BroadBand
    • Transport Logic (Bought by Firstworld, who is no longer around I believe)
    • Encompass Telesystems (Didn't even make it to having a web presence)
    5 layoffs in 5 years. I live in fear, but have become bitter and jaded. I expect a layoff to come at any time. Especially since I work at Intel now.
  10. 90% within 2 yrs - before dot-com by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Actually, the numbers I kept hearing, well before the dot-com lunacy, was that 90% of new businesses go bankrupt within two years. A surprising number of friends and acquaintances started up in the 80's and 90's and repeated this number as well (BTW they're all in business except one, who cashed in and got out.)

    However, that said, it would interesting to see some reliable figures. Funny how it's run full circle - 'dot-com' started out as a pejorative, was the latest rage, and is now a pejorative again.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  11. AllAdvantage.com... hehehe by dave1g · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Oh how I use to love that site lol...

    I would get a 20 dollar check every month just for running that ad banner thing at night.

    I cant believe there are any of those paid to surf companies still around.

    Anyone who uses them are the people that can break the rules, or they are just the massive pyramid scheemer guys that host websites for the sole purpose of refering people to such site so they get x percentages of whatever their referers do.

  12. What is happening in Silicon Valley by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Firms that went public in 1999 have been living off of their IPO money instead of income. Thats fine - thats the idea (for a while), but these firms are facing a market that is moving towards massive commoditization and thinner margins.

    The software biz is just beginning to enter a phase of massive consolidation and commoditization just as these firms need to show strong revenues. I must agree with Larry Ellison's self-serving comments that 80% of the software firms have no future.

    This will impact Silicon Valley, which contrary to reports has not really generated much in the way of new industry in the last few years...the area is in fact turning more and more to the large firms (Adobe, Yahoo, Oracle, Cisco, Intel, Applied Materials etc) to shore up the local economy.

    But, for anyone who wants to start a new business, I can't imagine a city with more commercial real estate on the market. Take your pick!

  13. Re:There are signs, from the other side by CharlieG · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Then you get the OTHER extreme. One summer I got a temp job closing a plant, and moving the contents to another building. After the move, because I knew something about HVAC (Dad was a mechanic for, oh 35 years at the time, and I used to help him) they kept me on as an HVAC grunt

    This place maintianed their HVAC stuff like no other place I've ever seen. My Dad came in to visit, and he was impressed. 5 Machine rooms - year room had at least ONE spare "hot" compressor - piped in, but off, and idle. Open the valves for the water, and turn it on, and you were good to go. Tested at least once/month

    Each room had 2 towers - each could handle 75% of the hottest anticipated day. Most days, you could shut one tower with no problems. The company wanted the air clean and good in their building - we ran 50% fresh air - aka, we dumped half our air. ALL the air was filtered, and THEN electrostatic precipitated - even the warehouse!! No dust. due to the 50% fresh air, the building was at a fairly high positive pressue - we basically worked in a clean room! (Not a very clean one - but..). Every morning, after taking the basic readings, and bringing them to my boss, I grabbed a stack of towels, and clean all the machines - no oil drips, no dust - this was done 2x/day!!! The TILE (not concrete) floors in each machine room were swept daily, and stripped and waxed once/week! Spare parts were in bins, parts labeled, inventoried and the like. PM was done constantly. I swear, they used to keep the "Plant" cleaner than the public parts of most food stores or fast food places I've seen. The place was spotless

    I wonder why nothing ever broke down? (duh....)

    --
    -- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
  14. My own saga. by rjh · · Score: 2, Interesting
    My own employment history's likewise:
    • MCI-WorldCom: in Chapter 11
    • McLeodUSA: in Chapter 11
    • Exemplary Technologies: Chapter 7, CEO did time in Club Fed
    • Network Associates: the division I was at got annihilated
    ... I'm currently in graduate school because I've come to the belief that the Industry is just not worth it. Whenever I hear HR reps talking about how they're irked that young engineers have no company loyalty and will abandon ship for the next good offer to come along, I want to shake them vigorously and shout that we've got no loyalty to employers because it's been proven the employer has no loyalty to us.

    I'm 29, and I want out.
  15. That article is about right by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I predicted the dot-com collapse with Downside's Deathwatch. Most of the companies listed have went out of business long ago. The remaining ones are mostly just hanging on, with stock prices in the penny-stock range. They're examples of the living dead. Internet America (GEEK) is still around, with the stock around $1 and 82,000 customers left in Texas and Louisiana. Claimsnet.com (CLAI) is at $0.38. There are others. Even after downsizing, the bad-idea companies tend to remain unprofitable. But some of them raised enough money to continue losing at a very modest level for years.

    Silicon Valley has many non-public companies that are quietly dying. Often it's not their fault; they were support companies for the semiconductor industry, which has moved elsewhere.

    I've been reading "The End of Detroit", on how the US auto industry blew their market share. I see many parallels to Silicon Valley. Auto manufacturing hasn't been centered in Detroit for years now. Detroit, as a city, is a ghost town. The population is half of what it was at peak. See The Fabulous Ruins of Detroit. That could happen here.