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Your Own Mecha

BJH writes "A Japanese company by the unfortunate name of tmsuk has just announced the world's largest robot capable of carrying a person - the 3.5m tall, 5 ton T52 Enryu HyperRescueRobot. Their product site is in Japanese, but here's a few fun facts: it's 10m wide with its arms fully outstretched, is powered by an onboard water-cooled three cylinder direct injection diesel engine, has a maximum speed of 3Km/h, and carries seven 680,000-pixel CCD cameras with a separate monitor for each camera. If no whiny 14-year-olds are available to pilot it, it can be remotely controlled (with a dummy plug in the cockpit, presumably)."

54 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. This is great and all... by ciroknight · · Score: 2, Funny

    But when can I get my fuckin gundam???

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    1. Re:This is great and all... by Cappy+Red · · Score: 2, Informative

      They aren't releasing them internationally yet.

      Me, I want a megadeus. I'd prefer full size, but I'll settle for a seven foot one if it comes to that.

      *honk*

      --
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  2. Revolutions? by cloudless.net · · Score: 4, Funny

    So are we ready to fight the sentinels yet?

  3. Bring on the Aliens by ntsucks · · Score: 5, Funny

    Get Signorey Weaver and bring on the Alien mother.

    --
    Those who can do. Those who can't sue.
    1. Re:Bring on the Aliens by Schemat1c · · Score: 3, Informative

      If I remember correctly in the movie she did use a real robot that is in industrial use today.

      Not sure who makes the thing though?


      It's made by Caterpillar. My father works for them and just after Aliens came out he got to tour their main plant in Illinois. He got to see the loaders (or whatever they're called). They were fully functional prototypes and they let them use them in the movie in exchange for advertising. If you notice in the movie, Caterpillar's logo is on the machine. I don't know if they are in regular use now or not, I looked at their web site and didn't see them listed in their products section.

      --

      "Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
    2. Re:Bring on the Aliens by JHMartin · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've never seen Aliens but I remembered reading about these robots a while back(10/30/2003). Its a USA Today story about the Israeli's using remote control Caterpillar bulldozers to destroy Palesinian homes.

    3. Re:Bring on the Aliens by TREETOP · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Caterpillar manloader is not real. Caterpillar has no currently available equipment that looks like or operates like the manloader in the film. I did see video back when they intro'd the movie, and the special effects designer did say they'd caused all kind of problems for Caterpillar. People wanted to know where they could BUY one. The special effects people constructed a mock-up and then used CGI for the motion sequences. Take a good look at those scenes again...that's not a very real looking Ripley driving the thing

    4. Re:Bring on the Aliens by payndz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not CGI - that wasn't even an option at the time Aliens was made, in terms of technology *or* budget. A fair amount was done full-size with the loader on either cables or a crane arm, with a stuntman inside the body lifting the limbs. The rest was done with rod puppets. Cinefex did a great article back in 1986, and there's a hell of a lot about it in the new Alien Quadrilogy DVD set.

      --
      You must think in Russian.
    5. Re:Bring on the Aliens by mikk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's Caterpillar P-5000.

      Look here for more information: http://www.serenadawn.com/Alien-Vehicles.htm

  4. Can anyone translate for me? by way2trivial · · Score: 4, Funny

    I need to know how to say in Japanese, how much, and do you finance...

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  5. Sounds good, but... by teamhasnoi · · Score: 5, Funny
    does it run Rinux?

    C'mon, this joke's got legs!

    Looks like the perfect thing to babysit kids with or fight mother aliens.

    Scratch that, the kids'll break it.

    1. Re:Sounds good, but... by Rhinobird · · Score: 2, Informative

      Even IN SOVIET RUSSIA, and covered with hot grits that joke is bad.

      Speaking of legs, I'm disappointed this thing doesn't have legs. But it has what looks like caterpillar tracks and a front loader, WTF?

      --
      If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
    2. Re:Sounds good, but... by aled · · Score: 4, Funny

      And how are we supposed to crush cars on the streets with each step? eh? I'm tired of products with crippled functionality, I'll keep growing my genetically created clon of godzilla in the backyard until I see a full-featured robot at a reasonable price.

      --

      "I think this line is mostly filler"
  6. YHBT by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't be fooled. That photo is of a 1 meter tall man standing beside Steve Mann

  7. Old idea. by Samuel+Duncan · · Score: 5, Informative
    Already after WW II in the late 1940ies there were the first mech projects floating around. We had basically everything you need: Diesel engines, decent valves from submarine technology for the hydraulic system, the usual control stuff, sufficiently small electric motors etc. You don't need many electric amplifiers for the electric system because the main system would have to be hydraulic anyway. So vaccuum tubes would do.
    However the projects were stomped due to several reasons:
    1. Weight: these mechs would much too heavy for decent use (200 metric tons)
    2. Stability: without high speed regulation these mech would just fall on the back when lifting something heavy or fire an anti tank grenade.
    3. Reliability: the hydraulic system was every prone to produce leaks and it wasn't even remotely bullet proof. A single foot soldier could take it out with an old WW I gun.
    --
    Over 90 years and counting !
    1. Re:Old idea. by LightForce3 · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the '60s, GE had a project called "Hardiman". It was scrapped when they couldn't get the limbs to coordinate properly. It was also impractically heavy, at 1,500 pounds.

      Currently, DARPA has a $50 million project dedicated to developing exoskeletons for US soldiers.

      How Stuff Works has an article detailing some of the problems with developing exoskeletons with a few interesting links.

      ~~LF

  8. Re:what is this for? by BJH · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's intended for use in areas hit by natural disaster - earthquakes, for example. The name 'Enryu' could be translated as 'Helpful Dragon' (the 'en' is part of the Japanese word for 'rescue' or 'aid').

  9. To get an Alien Queen out of your spaceship... by SwissMike · · Score: 2, Funny

    Isn't this similarity striking?

    The machines would sell like hot cakes if they would advertise with Ripley...

    1. Re:To get an Alien Queen out of your spaceship... by d3faultus3r · · Score: 2, Funny

      I bet they'd sell like hotcakes if they could produce hotcakes. Fight off the alien menace while eating a delicious snack!

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  10. babelfish trans w/ random line breaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    NEWS
    Releasing new model rescue robot "T-52 support dragon" with fire fighting coming out first system (Inc.) the Kitakyushu city National Fire Prevention and Control Administra,
    (Germany) fire fighting laboratory, the Kyoto university and others and development

    Corporation (high main Yoichi Chief Executive Officer: below head office Kitakyushu city) 2004 January 11th (day), the Kitakyushu city National Fire Prevention and Control Administra and
    the independent administrative corporate body fire fighting laboratory, Assistant Professors Kyoto university Yokokouzi the new model rescue robot "T-52 support dragon which was developed
    (...)" at the Kitakyushu city fire fighting coming out first system which is held at the Kitakyushu city Moji Ku it released.

    The "T-52 support dragon" in order to be able to execute the necessary job of real power at such as disaster actual place, total height approximately 3.45 m, at weight
    approximately 5 t and worldwide biggest size, adopting hydraulic drive system for drive of the upper body and the like which possesses 2 arms.
    The person boarding to the robot, either one of operation and the remote manipulation which utilizes the radio and the mobile communication device etc.
    it can select according to circumstance.

    The "T-52 support dragon" was developed for utilization development of the rescue robot it was formed by the member of "prevention of disasters robot development conference".
    did the design production of the robot, the Kitakyushu city National Fire Prevention and Control Administra police/policing anti section emergency rescue section, adopted,
    the opinion of the specialist of the fire fighting disaster relief robot engineering of
    Assistant Professors Kyoto university Yokokouzi who does the research of the independent administrative corporate body fire fighting laboratory and the remote manipulation type robot etc.
    which do the research of the rescue robot from stage of the design. Design went Takashi Satoshi Takahashi of the robot creator (the Kyoto university venture representation).

    In addition, the Kyushu Institute of Technology which is the local university institution which does the research of the robot,
    Fukuoka prefecture and Kitakyushu city of the Fukuoka prefecture industrial engineering center and the local self-governing community etc., also
    foundation Fukuoka prefecture industrial technology promotion foundation participated.

    Released as for the "T-52 support dragon" with the experimental model, to work actually, furthermore development improvement is needed with the latest fire fighting coming out first system.
    Adjusting to intended purpose such as durability heat resistance, and improvement of work ability the schedule which keeps continuing development.

  11. The Kid? by rudib · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hey, is that whiny wannabe-soldier included in the price? I need someone to reload my gatling gun... :)

  12. Yes yes by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 2, Funny

    Someone better sell this technology to Suzuki. Despite the fact Suzuki cars are horrible now, even I would be interested in one if they make some REAL Transformers! * que Transformer main theme *

  13. He's obviously... by radoni · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...over compensating for something.

    --
    SIGERR: laziness exceeds quota
  14. 5 Tons!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wow the "T-52 support dragon" weighs in at 5 tons. If it does not find somebody on the first pass then their will be no need for the second as it will crush them into oblivion.

    babelfish translation

    1. Re:5 Tons!!! by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's not a problem that's a feature. Now they can be 100% sure there aren't any survivors left behind.

  15. T52 Enryu HyperRescueRobot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...948 models later and it's Judgment Day!

    (Giant grippers crushing one of the few remaining
    human rebels):
    Please...stop..."rescuing"...me! Aaaaarrggghh!!!

  16. Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever seen by roadhog95 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All we need now are auto-balancing walking chassis and shoulder mount gatlins! You cant tell me military organizations havent already gotten their drooly mits over this one.!

    But seriously, I think this is a great step in the right direction as far as conserving not only the lives of those in danger but also those of the brave people attempting to rescue them. What would be interesting to know is how soon American based construction and demolition corporations would be snapping this up.. Look close. This isnt much large than a standard issue BOBcat and the extra servo arms add tons of additional flexibility (npi)..

    --
    Bitch you KNOW the side.. WORLD MAFUCKIN WIDE..
  17. Hardly "fast-paced mechanized fighting action" by Fortunato_NC · · Score: 5, Funny
    3km/h! Even the useless walkers from Star Wars were faster than that. Imagine if these things were destoying Tokyo:

    Random Japanese Person 1: Aaaaaagh! The evil robots are coming!
    Random Japanese Person 2: It certainly does seem as if this is the end. They are only six kilometers from here!

    Time Passes

    Random Japanese Person 1: This is boring. Perhaps we should go to them.
    Random Japanese Person 2: My grandma could outrun these fucking evil robots. What a bunch of losers.

    More Time Passes

    Random Japanese Person 1: Do you realize we could have watched "Amelie" by now?
    Random Japanese Person 2: Yes, perhaps the evil robots are not ready for prime-time yet.

    Still More Time Passes

    Random Japanese Person 1: Well, I'm tired of waiting. I'm going to hop a bullet train for Kyoto and catch a baseball game.
    Random Japanese Person 2: I'm in. Those robots are still over a kilometer from here, and it looks like some kid just took one out with a "Red Ryder" BB gun.

    --
    Blogging Weight Loss, Distance Education, and more at verlin.com
  18. Skid steering? by jacobcaz · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It looks like it's a skid-steer vehicle in the picture. That's lame, I want two-legged locomotion!

    I've driven a lot of Bobcat and Case Loaders and this thing doesn't look 1) as stable and 2) as useful as a skid-steer front loader. It looks like the center of gravity is way to high!

    Of course, it has pinchers, so bonus points for looking cool.

  19. Re:Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever s by cerenyx · · Score: 3, Funny

    We need one that can snatch aeroplanes out of the air as they dive towards huge skyscrapers, filled to the brim with wailing passengers.

  20. Robot Wars - Now in the prime time? by roadhog95 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think its about time we had something to compete with mainstream competitive sports.
    Imagine, "RoboBOWL IV in Wichita!": Humans piloting battle mechas! (we'd probably have to tone it down to "touch tackling" starting out) We dont have to worry about training camps, gender based deliniations (though i must say, some of the female transformers from the 80's did help me through puberty) or player injuries! (much.. Im sure rumors of sabotage and unnecessary roughness resulting in pilot injury or death will soon follow).. My money is on the fact that in 5 years we'll have drowned out all the smarmy NASCAR fans! Who wants to watch Dale E. Jr crackup making left turns when you can see Dennis Rodman kick the ever lovin-s**t out of someone with a metal pile driver!

    --
    Bitch you KNOW the side.. WORLD MAFUCKIN WIDE..
  21. Finding pilots by Faust7 · · Score: 5, Funny

    If no whiny 14-year-olds are available to pilot it,

    Sure there are. Finding some that can pilot and are clinically insane, however, may take time.

  22. Now then.... by ndnet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are a few threads saying 'oh, this has been done' and 'it's useless' already.

    That's silly. It's a prototype. (Perhaps even a test type or earlier!) It has no weapons. No armor. The electronics are there, but the cockpit in the current form is uncomfortable and small. There is no life support. It's small, bordering on "this is just a new kevlar vest, right?" tiny.

    But before millionaires can have Big series and the rest of the world Leos or Zakus, these inefficient designs must come and go. Eventually we'll stumble on a Tallgeese or something.

    Besides, they didn't say it was combat-ready. IIRC, the blurb says it was the "HyperRescueRobot." That doesn't sound like something I'd want to pilot into a war.

    Not to mention the fact that the cockpit not only lacks armor, but is exposed. What is this, Dorothy-1?

    Now, I'm toying with building a Big O cockpit. I just need a few other parts funded and built, and then "It's SHOWTIIIIME!!!!"


    (Note: I have been considering a Big O replica cockpit, but slowly changing that plan. Unsuprisingly, Slashdot is the impetus for this gradual change.)

    1. Re:Now then.... by gilroy · · Score: 4, Funny
      Blockquoth the poster:

      Not to mention the fact that the cockpit not only lacks armor, but is exposed. What is this, Dorothy-1?

      No, it's Zion. (Because if my enemy's favorite weapon was pinchy tentacles, I know I'd design an open-air cockpit into my main line of defense...) :)
  23. Re:Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever s by dendogg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe it's a step in the 'right' direction. (If world machine domaination and bloodshed is the goal) But I don't know if Machine soldiers are all that good of an idea. First, even tanks- as tough as they are, are preety easy to destroy. Just get a clean shot. Same thing with Blackhawk hellicopters. I wonder if it would be possible to actually 'mass-produce' something like this.

  24. Re:Idiot. by chendo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a cartoon for kids. Average kids don't have the intellectual capacity to understand it. And maybe some adults.

    References to the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Sephiroth Tree of Life, lots more religous references than the Matrix...

    Unlike most anime, NGE leaves you to draw your own conclusions.

    It's definitely one of the most influential anime of all time considering how much people it drove into therapy :)

    For those NGE fanboys, Girlfriend of Steel 2 (the manga) is being scanslated by Studio ADTRW. I'm not direct-linking them in case I slashdot them. Use the BT links. 3 chapters have been released so far. And no, I don't work for them ;p

    --
    Founder of Mirror Moon - Tsukihime Game Trans
  25. Re:Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever s by gilroy · · Score: 4, Informative
    Blockquoth the poster:

    First, even tanks- as tough as they are, are preety easy to destroy. Just get a clean shot.

    Um, no. A clean shot with what? Your grandma's 22 isn't going to bring down an M1A1 Abrams. Neither is your nephew's AK47 or indeed any small-arms. A heavy chain machine gun won't either. And while it's true that there are a distressingly large number of Warsaw Pact derivative (and unfortunately even NATO derivative) rocket-propelled grenade launchers out there, successful operation of an anti-tank weapon is not plug-and-play.

    They are vulnerable to mined roads, etc. But then, so is everything (except hovercraft?)

    Same thing with Blackhawk

    The Blackhawk is a helicopter. It's intrinsically fragile. (Even the Apache -- which is the combat helicopter you probably meant to reference -- turned out to be surprisingly vulnerable even to small arms fire.)

    But the helicopters are not nearly as vulnerable as a mech would be. Despite forty years of cool anime, it's time for the fanboys to understand: Mech warriors are a dumb idea and a waste of resources. The human form is not particularly well-adapted for industrial warfare, and it offers no advantages for modern weapon systems. Indeed, I think you can argue well that the human form forces compromises that detract from combat effectiveness.

    That's one of the lessons of Matrix Revolutions: There is no way -- even with $100 million -- to make mech warriors look less than stupid, because they are instrinsically stupid.
  26. Re:what is this for? by Jellybob · · Score: 2, Funny

    But would you want that thing turning up to resuce you in an earthquake.

    As if the experience of being burried under a pile of rubble wasn't enough, you then get a giant robot with metal pinchers turning up... I'd have a heart attack before it had time to pull me out.

  27. Fake. by Unknown+Poltroon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I remember reading an article on how they made the movie, and the loaders involved a thing plastic shell and a really strong guy inside to make it move. I could be remembering wrong, but which is more likely, that they used a high tech prototype walker that weve never seen or heard of since, or hollywood magic?

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    1. Re:Fake. by AtaruMoroboshi · · Score: 4, Informative


      actually, I just listened to part of the comentary track on the new Aliens special edition dvd, and Cameron mentions that there is a body builder in the "suit" behind sigorny weaver, helping her move the plastic arms and feet. She was basically standing on his feet.

      there is more to it than that, including some kind of rig behind it helping to support it all.

  28. No, thanks... by paulcammish · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ... ill have a Tachikoma/Fuchikoma instead: http://www.banryu.jp/

    Ok, ok... Yea, it looks more like an Evil Aibo... damn.

  29. Re:How do you know? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Riiiiiight, I'm guessing that's the same place you last saw the so-called "moon landings" too, right?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  30. Rescue robot my ass by tjstork · · Score: 2, Funny


    That thing is a weapon of mass produced destruction!

    --
    This is my sig.
  31. Bubblegum Crisis by payndz · · Score: 4, Funny

    You realise that this marks the birth of the Genom Corporation? Quick, better set up the first AD Police unit!

    --
    You must think in Russian.
  32. Hyper? by azav · · Score: 2, Funny

    What specifically makes this a "Hyper" robot?

    Did it drink too much coffee? Put too much sugar on its cereal? Does it have ADD and is a total spaz?

    Marketing dorks.

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
  33. Sorry, I just have to say it... by MrPerfekt · · Score: 4, Funny

    DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!

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  34. Run that through the BabelFish once more by quintessent · · Score: 3, Funny

    and maybe English will come out.

  35. had me all excited by Macgyver7017 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And then it doesn't even walk, let alone have an autocannon...

  36. Re:Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever s by eatdave13 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Many anti-vehicular mines have foot-long poles sticking out the top of them. It would have to be a powerful hovercraft.

    --
    "Verbing weirds language." -- Calvin
  37. Re:Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever s by sillybilly · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How the hell did this thread about the "world's largest robot capable of carrying a person" turn into a military discussion. When we see robots, why is it that we automatically think weapons? I realize that the military might be the first to pick up the new technology, just like it happened with airplanes and nuclear fission, but in the long term I can imagine peaceful uses, as they were intented in the first place by their original creators. People who invented airplanes and fission did it to make humans more enabled, happier - flying has always been a dream of humans envying birds, and the scientists thinking about fission meant it as an awesome source of energy. Once you're enabled and more capable, it's up to you what you do with it. You can use your newfound powers to live better, or to destroy something. Right now the military is heavily into unmanned toys, but I think in the future, the ratio of robots used for bettering the lives of humans to the amount used by the military will be very high.. just like the amount of commercial airplane flights outdo the military part. Why isn't anyone thinking about grandma in the nursing home "prison" being able to get out back home because she can take care of herself again, cuz she can 'dress up' into her robot clothes that helps her walk, drive, and shop? Is that such a scary future? The cave people must have been damn scared of fire first but where would we be without fire? Sure you can burn down your enemy's huts with fire, but these day's when we think fire that's not the first thing that comes to mind anymore. I'm sure it will be the same with robots.

  38. Re:Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever s by gilroy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Blockquoth the poster:

    eventually armies will tire of "remote control" warfare and mass murder of troops

    That's a very fiction-oriented view of the military. They're interested in winning, period, and will evaluate new weapons on their ability to contribute to that goal and on the opportunity cost of adopting the weapons system.

    Of course, since armies are led by people, it's entirely possible that mechs will be developed and adopted because "they look cool" and fall into fashion with the right person at the right time. But eventually, I predict, they will be abandoned because the weapons concept just doesn't make sense operationally.


    In addition they have the ability to be armed with all the normal military arms...but simply "pick up" or "flip over" most wheeled vehicles without firing a shot!

    If that were a desirable ability, we could put hydraulic lift rams on existing vehicles. We don't because, in fact, it's hard to do and not particularly useful. On the other hand, the human form factor means that the mech is critically balanced when upright -- a nudge from a traditional vehicle or a hit from a high-impulse round could conceivably knock the mech over. I think mechs come out on the losing side of this comparision, too.
  39. Japanese kids dreams of. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Mech; of team-work. (You need tons of people to design, maintain, command and finally, pilot mechs. That's Japanese thinking to a 'T'.)

    American kids, (in the land of All for One and Crumbs for All), dreamed of Batman and Spiderman, ultimate individualists.

    And so kids grow into adults, adults engineer reality.

    When sitting around on my friend's front porch many, many years ago, this came to us a new and startling realization. My friend turned to me aghast, "The Japanese are going to have fucking mechs! --The Americans are going to have idiots running around in capes."

    He then, imitating a big robot arm, held up his hand and swatted the porch. "SQUASH!"

    Although. . .

    With genetic research and the recent spate of films like, "Spider Man," (which no longer look to nuclear science to create its heroes. . .) It'll be interesting to see which dream of youth irresponsibly brought into adult reality turns out to be the more devastating.


    -FL

  40. Re:Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever s by spyfrog · · Score: 2, Informative

    "successful operation of an anti-tank weapon is not plug-and-play."

    Isn't it? I have a different opinion. The standard anti-tank weapon of the swedish army takes no time to understand on how to use. It is simply a point and click weapon with no inteligence.

    Simply point and fire - if you remeber to fire at the weakest points (the side and rear armor or upper armor) you are almost sure to make a kill in up to 300 meters on Russian tanks, however it is better at closer range.

    Since the armor on a M1A1 is better I suppose you need to fire from a close range or hit it twice (you will need two weapons for this since it is a one shot weapon), but it is easy to use the weapon. Since the weapon cost about $10000 so is it also very cheap compared to the tank...
    A great weapon to even the playfield for infantry and artillery when confronted with armor.

    I would like to point out that these weapons is common in most western armys and that they are rather easy to come across on the black market. Here it has even been used by rivalising MC-gangs to attack each others houses.

  41. Re:Beavis..this is the coolest thing i have ever s by tulare · · Score: 2, Funny

    Crikey, man, no joke. I looked at that thing and thought it'd be a killer way to move stacks of planks and whatnot out on the jobsite - not to mention something very strong to "hold this up here just like that for a minute." As much of a Robotech geek as I might have been (or thought I was) back when I was a teenager, when I grew up I started to think of technology for useful purposes, not destructive ones. Maybe that's the problem with the current crop of warmongers - they never grew up. I'd put my money on that one, in fact.

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