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Are Geeks in Saudi Arabia Just Like Us?
Robin 'Roblimo' Miller (of NewsForge and sometimes Slashdot) spent five days in Saudi Arabia's capital, Riyadh, meeting with local Linux advocates and users, and wrote five articles while he was there. The article titles are Saudi Arabia: Linux advocates in white robes, Saudi Space Institute techies love their new Linux computer, Meet Saudi Arabia's most famous computer expert, Saudi open source conference opens minds, and Linux and open source opportunities in the Mideast. This is the first in-depth look ever at open source (and programming in general) in a conservative Islamic country. Roblimo concludes that under the robes, Saudi geeks are much like geeks everywhere, but from comments on the stories it looks like a lot of people don't agree.
Roblimo concludes that under the robes, Saudi geeks are much like geeks everywhere
What's that exactly supposed to mean?
think it would be great if we all actually *did* get along just once. If geeks can help that, so much the better!
C|N>K
> Roblimo concludes that under the robes, Saudi geeks are much like geeks everywhere
Even the most rudimentary biological knowledge should have tipped you off that what's under the robes is just like what's under the jeans, kilt, or lederhosen.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
They're just like the geeks in the USA, except that their non-existant girlfriends have fewer rights.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
in saudi arabia, geeks have the advantage of women being forced to marry them.....
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Ten differences between a Saudi geek and a Stateside geek:
1. The Saudi geeks don't have cellars.
2. They browse from right to left.
3. Stateside geeks have longer hacking sessions, not being required to stop for prayers every few hours.
4. Saudi geeks have better weather.
5. Saudi geeks drink tea, while stateside geeks drink coffee.
6. Saudi geeks get more work done, not reading Slashdot as often.
7. Stateside geeks wear sandals, Saudi geeks wear Gucci.
8. Stateside geeks rarely dress in white.
9. Saudi geeks speak at least two languages - Arab and English. Stateside geeks hardly speak at all.
10. Saudi geeks go camel-riding in the weekends. Stateside geeks don't have weekends.
My blog
Roblimo's article highlight -perhaps inadvertently- the important and profound differences between the open source and free software communities. While these communities collaborate as a practical matter, and may need each other for their survival, one is political and principled, the other pragmatic and concerned overall with technological imperatives.
So is there a problem with this? I believe there is. You see, Microsoft, or any other software development house, can afford to optimize its development methodology or even start from scratch a la Apple, if it really became all that self-evident to them that they were technically and financially failing. So one of two things can happen:
1) if they throw enough money at the problem, they will match our technical achivements. Apple started from scratch and has produced a decent OS built on top of BSD/Darwin/Mach. So it is doable.
2) They do not match our technical achiviements. Yet at the end of the day, if the only thing we care about is having an open source operating system regardless of whether it advances the cause of freedom, then the labor of love of all these years will seem a little less meaningful to many of us. To me, it will be all seem pretty hollow.
And here's where I have a problem with Roblimo's articles. He does not question the irony that the Saudy monarchy is using free software to exercise censorship and control. Even if some of can be circumvented, it is perversed to those that believe in Free Software to see this happen. And in respecting the freedom of the license, we must allow it, but we should call oppression by its name when we come across it and he did not have the guts to do it.
He could have looked for hactivists in Saudi Arabia to see what tools they were using and how they were furthering the cause of freedom. He could have spoken to dissidents, but he didin't. It's easy to stay at a comfy hotel and write from the sidelines. It's easier to be an expectator paying lipservice to free softaware than to stand up for what free softare actually represents.
In summary, being technically superior without being morally committed to the cause of freedom is a very hollow undertaking.
Pragmatism as an ideology is not particularly pragmatic in the long term. Keep it in mind when you dismiss Free Software
While an MS zealot will run into a company using Linux and attempt to blow himself up, only to discover his explosion mechanism has given him the blue screen of no death.
Because they believe that women are lesser creatures that have next to no rights?
Look at how women and other religious minorities are treated before you start saying that other geeks are just like them.
Um, they do? Show me the bit in the articles where it said that all the Saudi geeks were 100% behind the fundamentalist excesses of their government.
I might as well conclude that all American geeks are creationists? After all, some people in your government are creationists, so obviously that applies to every member of the population too!
It's not just geeks. It's not just USA and Saudi-Arabia.
Physiologically people are quite the same. Some have folds in their eyes, some have lost pigment from their skin and some have fat in different places. These are only cosmetical differences. Inside we're all the same.
If you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you'll see that the bottom layers are physiological, safety, and love. These are what every person in the world wants. They don't want to sit in the cold, they don't want to be hungry and they don't want to be afraid. (Yet some are.) And people want love and want to love.
The only substantial difference between different nations is due to culture. Some are born in conservative countries, some in liberal. Others live in religious areas, others have secular rule. Yet despite this, people still practice arts, science, whatever. You have geeks in Saudi-Arabia and deeply religious people in USA.
Whatever group of people you look, you'll find innovative people there. I recently received a revelation about this subject while reading "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond. (Excellent book, recommended). His examples showed how people have adapted to all sorts of environments and made the best use of available resources. If this does not restore your faith in mankind, nothing will.
It is true that there is a deep cultural divide between the Western world and the countries of the East, and I don't see the current political situation to lessen the situation at all. However, this is mostly due to ignorance. If you see two small children playing with toys, do you care if one of them is a Jew and another one an Arab? Do the children care? No.
If Mr. Bush had met Mr. Hussein in a neutral and safe environment before the war, would they have fought with their bare fists. Probably not. Their nations fought one another, perhaps even their ideologies. But the people themselves... you can hardly ever find a good reason to strike at your fellow man. (This teaching, it would seem, lies at the heart of every religion. Sadly it is not observed very often.)
The only way to fight this is to get rid of the prejudice and the fear. If you can, travel to different countries and try to see beneath the surface. People are the same, even in France. Try to learn about different cultures. If you can't spare the money, go to http://www.wikipedia.org/ and read about the different achievements of cultures both long gone and present. Read about their times of glory and downfall. Go to a library and read a book. (Once again I recommend "Guns, Germs and Steel".
I'd like to end this rant with a quote from Charlie Chaplin. At the end of "The Dictator," the Jewish barber (who looks like Adolf Hynkel) gives a rather touching speech about universal harmony. (Emphasis mine.)
"I'm sorry but I don't want to be an emperor. That's not my business. I don't want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone if possible; Jew, Gentile, black men, white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each others' happiness, not by each other's misery. We don't want to hate and despise one another.
In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way. Greed has poisoned men's souls; has barricaded the world with hate; has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge as made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little.
More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these things cries out for the goodness in man; cries out for universal brotherhood; for the unity of us all."
[ Antti Rasinen ]
In which case, they need to wear burkas, not work, and be totally subservient to their man.
Geeks tend not to be racist because hate takes time and effort that could be better applied to developing a better understanding of the universe.
Please. Most American geeks tend not to be white-supremacists or anything like that because modern American culture abhors that kind of thinking. You won't find any kind of "racist" anywhere, unless you look very hard.
On the other hand, have you ever read slashdot? Look at all the anti-Indian hysteria in any thread about H1-B or off shoring. It's the same unthinking "us vs. them, they're taking our jobs" attitude that all racism is borne out of. Maybe they won't take the final step to true racism (i.e. anyone of Indian decent == bad), but it's just as bad (any Indian == bad job stealer).
A couple years ago, there was an article about a fiber-optic link around Africa. I was shocked when I read the comments. People were pissed, like it was some kind of a waste (even though it was being done by African countries expecting to make a profit). The racist comments in that thread were beyond the pail.
Geeks have just as much capacity for ugliness as anyone else. I'm willing to bet that "geeks" in SA have the same sort of opinions on religious diversity, women's rights, etc that most of the country does, which is pretty bad.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The whole point of this article, which is seemingly lost on the above poster, is that in contrast to whatever vast societal differences may separate individuals, we can share many things in common - often on profoundly meaningful levels.
As an American aid worker living and working in the middle east, I can tell you point blank that the reason why there is conflict between our two societies is because there are assholes on both sides. The above post is demonstrative of that fact.
A-Bomb
This isn't to say that I think everyone in Saudi Arabia is some kind of crazy religious zealot, but if you grow up in that kind of environment, a lot of it would probably rub off on you.
Okay, I dare say this will be taken as a troll, but to many of us outsiders the USA looks like a society with more than its fair share of crazy religious zealots, but I still realise that you're not all like that. Is religious fundamentalism more ingrained in Saudi Arabia than in the USA? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm sure there must be exceptions either way.
First to dispel some misconceptions: The women on the roads here think it is just as crazy that their counterparts in Saudi can't drive. Alcohol is available at hotels, restaurants, and in liquor stores. There is essentially no dress code for visitors, and we see plenty of tank tops and belly-button rings. Women don't wear veils or always black, because that's not part of Islam - that's a recent part of Saudi culture. Plenty of women wear jeans and t-shirts. Birth control pills are available at subsidized rates and are encouraged. And of course there are all of the modern ammenities you'd expect: water, power, cheap gas, shopping malls, movie theaters, Starbucks and McDonalds and satellite TV, just like everywhere else.
Second, there are a number of ways in which life here compares favorably to life back home (I'm American): in day to day living, things are less oppressive here. When you get pulled over by the cops, you get immediately get out of your car and shake hands with the cop and exchange pleasantries. You would get shot doing this where I lived in LA. Speaking of getting shot, there are no guns here. Well, there are rifles of course, but murder is exceedinly rare. In fact, the last one was some Texan woman who murdered her oil-worker husband with the aid of her son. There is virtually no crime to speak of at all. No metal detectors in schools, no looking over your shoulder in dark alleys, no worries or concerns about getting carjacked or mugged or harassed in any way. I rarely lock my car, never lock my house. Punishment for crimes is indeed swift, certain and severe, but a trial by jury is guaranteed - kind of like small-town USA. Medical care? Free. For everyone, foreign or Omani.
Freedom? There sure seems to be. All citizens vote for parliament members. There are female doctors, professors, ministers - you're free to choose to do whatever you want with your life. Freedom of religion too. A couple of my jewish friends have been out to visit and loved this place. You're much more free here to go where you like, camp where you like, eat and drink and smoke where you like. Cops in Arizona (well, rangers), in the middle of nowhere, busted me for trespassing and not camping at a designated campsite. And here I was used to rolling up any old place, pitching a tent, making a fire, cooking up some pork sausages I picked up from the local supermarket, surfing and fishing wherever I chose.
Next to my folks' house in California people had a 'vote no on prop 22' sign on their front lawn (the bill that would have allowed gay marriage, which was voted down). Racial hate crimes and general tension are vastly greater in the states than here - Oman is historically a melting pot because of all its sea-faring trade. Oh, and unlike in here, I needed a license to catch a fish and a permit for wherever I wanted to go fishing back in California.
The point of all this is that things are never black and white, and these countries out here are almost nothing like what the evening news and our elected officials would have us believe.
A-Bomb