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The Dirt On Mars, In Words And Pictures
An anonymous reader writes "The Spirit rover's first soil analysis reveals some puzzling features about Gusev crater. The region seems to contain the greenish silicate mineral, olivine, which usually is considered water-reactive and thus volcanic in origin. For olivine to be found in the soil may point to rock formation during a drier period in martian history, even with strong evidence for sampling in an ancient lakebed. A second puzzle is why the soil seems so crusty. After the rover arm pressed soil down, the top layer of dust hardly moved, a finding that suggests something may be binding the dust like some type of salt or thin cement." For even more and better Mars pictures, read on below.
mlyle writes "I've spent a few hours hacking together some software to deal with the Mars Exploration Rover imagery at JPL. The software puts together a webpage and RDF feed of new raw imagery as it is posted to the JPL site, along with technical information decoded about how the picture was taken. It also produces stereo anaglyphs and color images that NASA has not seen fit to convert and make publically available. Be sure to also check out the ultra high resolution image of the lander as viewed from Spirit."
There's also been an update for the Maestro visualisation and planning thingy. I'm downloading it right now - let's get some more BitTorrent seeds up and running! :)
Any particular reason NASA went with a B&W CCD for this one? I seem to recall earlier Mars missions being in full color -- then again, it may have been this 'pseudocolor' stuff as well.
levine
There are some puzzles and there are surprises
One unexpected finding was the Moessbauer spectrometer's detection of a mineral called olivine, which does not survive weathering well
It doesn't survive weathering well in Earth like conditions. Mars, on the other hand, has extreme and totally different climate conditions and it should not be a surprise that minerals exhibit different properties.
Free XBox, PS2
It's been waiting how long for us to visit? Come on think aboutit, it has been just hanging around for a few hundred years, that we have been looking at it, and they expect it to be soft and fresh?!?!??
I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
I guess it's good NASA didn't seem a spotty teenager inside the probe to send the images.
"That's not Mars, it's Paris Hilton"
Given the current information we estimate that we will be able to travel to pluto in 3 years time.
...
In today's fast-paced modern world, a mere 3 years get you:
- to Pluto
- a copy of Duke Nukem Forever
or perhaps I should await my return from Pluto to get DNF
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
It would be interesting to see if mining on Mars would be a feasible (and cost-effective) venture. With the apparent iron content of the soil (hence the rust-red color), it may be a good source of mineral content for mining operations. The hard (and expensive) part would be the transport of mined material back to Earth. Could the cost be overcome by the benefits?
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
I mean, they're the ones who are always talking about the windstorms that plague the planet, yes?
And for how long have these windstorms been occurring? Millions and millions of years?
So it seems reasonable to conclude that the dust/soil on the planet is going to be fairly homogenous by now.
They talk about the rock abrasion tool and the various spectrometers and what not, but the tool I'd like to hear about is the shovel. The dried lakebeds on Mars are no doubt little different than the dried lakebeds on Earth. To get to anything really interesting, you need to dig.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
Interesting, as the marks of the airbags are clearly visible on all pics. Or am I missing the point of a rover-arm having less force than a bouncing-lander-in-an-airbag?
"Honey, I feel a certain distance between us..." "Really? A 31ms ping ain't that bad..."
Sheesh. Mars sucks. Could it be any more dull? It's worse than Morecombe on a wet Sunday. I bet it won't be too long before the rover finds a German beach-towel, though.
What I really want to see is a rover running up the Face on Mars. Who cares about water? I want to see pyramids and faces.
--- I'm Green Hornet's sidekick not Inspector Clouseau's!
...which usually is considered water-reactive and thus volcanic in origin.
If it's water-reactive why does it mean it's volcanic? I don't know anything about minerals but that doesn't sound logical to me.
Developers: We can use your help.
...but what about this picture ?
Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
Yum! I remember when my Mom used to make me a big glass of Olivine when I got home from school. Just add it into a glass warm milk, and yum! Wholesome and delicious, rich in essential vitamins and minerals!
Just imagine all that Olivine on Mars! Certainly it'd be worthwhile to travel to Mars, given an unbounded supply of ready-made food already on the surface. This, my friends, could cure world hunger!
In fact, now that they've found that Mars has a lot of Olivine, I'd start speculating that the dust is being bound together by Tang.
I find it interesting all the rocks in the pictures look small enough for any human to pick up and throw. I don't see any large outcropping of boulders and such. Why isn't the variety of the rock sized greater?
-Oy Vey
I've just seen a TV documentary about the rovers. One thing they had was an animation showing the differences between the first rover and the new ones. It was the old rover coming off the lander and then growing, parts being added etc., afterwards documenting how the thing has to fold to fit into the lander again, all on some blue grid surface. Does anyone know if this animation can be seen on the net somewhere?
Fight hunger. Filet a politician and send him to a 3rd world country of your choice.
OK, there's microscope, spectrometers, cameras on the rover.
Do they have a brush or scraper? Or is the rock grinder the only physical tool?
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
It has all the latest Mars Rover info as well, and a direct link to JPL for the latest and greatest pictures and info. www.marsquestonline.org
Go hit it. It's worth a look around.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Of course the show is 50 minutes or so, and the animation you want is in the middle. I taped it when it was broadcast, and I do like the scene you are describing.
Hope that helps.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
A consequence of space exploration being government run is the fact that missions will be continually over funded and unambitious, as successive presidents and politicians look at NASA and the entirety of space as merely being an extremely expensive photo opportunity. It took 25 years from the invention of modern rockets to the moon landings, and in nearly 40 after that, we've done little more than send up continuous, well publicised but ultimately futile shuttle missions. Much as it pains me to say it, the future of space lies in private hands who have the ambition to(pardon the pun) reach for the stars
" I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. " --Dr. Jerry Pournelle
I read at one of the links that "Olivine is also found in many iron-nickel meteorites. Not just as small grains but as significantly sized crystals sometimes occupying over 50% of the meteorites volume."
I do not know anything about minerals really, but if the lander is exploring a crater, couldn't this come from the meteorite that created the crater in the first place?
True ravers don't need drugs
The Viking landers performed soil tests that were supposed to check for living organisms. Interestingly, they were inconclusive - the reactions observed to the agar solution could have either been the result of microorganisms, or unusual soil chemistry. Either Spirit and Opportunity will tell us which it is, or we'll just have to send some folks up there to check things out.
The only way we'll have all the answers is to send up a team with some (live) geologists and full kit... But, that's probably 30-50 years away realistically.
Eggzactly.
One of the less ridiculous "proofs" for God's existence is that, "the world exists. Because there cannot be infinite causes, an ultimate originator must exist and that originator is God."
The "no infinite causes" ('nic') line is from Aristotle.
The problem is that NIC is only true if you take Aristotle's word for it. Now, he was assuredly a smart dude, but he was not infallible. His philosophy denies the existence of atomic particles (so if you agree with Aristotle 100%, you either have a fantastic take on all the science of the last 100 years, or you're provably wrong about something.)
The second problem is the assumption that, "if there is an ultimate originator, then it is God."
This is also simply an article of faith, which does not per se make it wrong, merely unjustified.
I can say with equal emphasis and personal faith that, "Since there cannot be an ultimate originator, there must be infinite causes." Further, I could say: "Therefore, those infinite causes are God", or equally, "Therefore, belief in God as an ultimate originator is fallacious."
No one can disprove that without assuming something on faith, either in a trusted authority (philosophical, religious, or otherwise) because no one actually has evidence either way.
Faith is a natural and healthy part of the human experience. Self righteousness and moral absolutism are comfy illusions. The difference between faith and zealotry is that zealots can't or won't change their beliefs under any cirumstances. Even when their own intelligence officers tell them that Iraq abandonded it's WMD programs in 1991.
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
You take the minerals you're interested in, make them into giant balls and toss them towards the Earth. Some of the stuff will survive the re-entry.
;)
Note: Aim for Siberia or something. And don't be too greedy packing the giant balls, you don't want to overdo it, trust me
---- Take the Space Quiz!
"The Water's been found"
...misses out one fundamamental point about the presence of liquid water on the surface, and that's that complex chemical reactions would be able to take place near or on the surface, and you'd have measurable humidity in the atmosphere, especially given the atmospheric pressure. You'd also have to raise the question as to why they didn't find anything with the Viking experiments.
Not entirely. Spirit and Beagle were intended to confirm the existence of permafrosts all over the planet, and from first glances it does actually look like there may have one that has retreated, although the definitive tests (penetrators) were on the polar lander. The definitive answer by the Viking life experiment leader...
("Levin said that the formation of liquid water can happen under the environmental conditions of Mars. Indeed, that water can even exist in liquid form on the surface of the red planet.
Furthermore, the detection by NASA's Mars Odyssey of the widespread presence of near-surface ice means liquid water is on the martian surface, Levin told SPACE.com via email.")
Any ice that exists (excluding the poles, which can be sublimated gases and ice) is going to be deep - a couple of metres wouldn't be unreasonable.
BTW, one interesting thing that nobodies really looked at is the behaviour of superfine particles in high windows to try and explain some of the bizarre behaviour of the soil around spirit; cohesion can be produced through electrostatics and there's enough high wind to produce quite a bit of electron removal.
Oddly Draconis
Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
With olivine and all the green cheese on the moon, we can solve world hunger.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
There is actually a green sand beach on the big island of Hawaii.
It is little known, and difficult to get to, but a long drive down
an unpaved road, and two or so mile hike will get you to it.
I once met an minerologist gathering samples there.
He told me the beach was green because of a large olivine vein
which was eroded over the years by the ocean waves.
pics: http://www.techfreakz.org/blacksand/
I live on an active volcano which, in some erruptions, produces large quantities of olivine (peridot) crystals. We can see the crystals not only on dry land, walking on various older (tens to hundreds of years) flows... but more interesting is Green Sand Beach in South Point - Green Sand is an old cone that sits at sealevel, partially within the water. The sands are a stunning and sparkling olive green and one can find crystals from pin-head sized up to small stones (every now and then someone finds larger gem-quality pieces).
Since it's well known that olivine can appear within certain types of volcano flows - i'm confused to the water reactive portion - we certainly find olivine in/near/around water (I do consider the pacific ocean to be water). Furthermore, portions of this island receive upwards to 200 inches of rain a year - and there's plenty of olivine.
Can someone explain to me why the presence of olivine somehow precludes water? It certainly doesn't here in Hawaii (though perhaps on a much larger time scale, it does?)
Anyone that isn't a religious nut can come to the conclusion pretty easily that life in some form is out there in all probability.
Probability less than 1.00 is not proof. If proof was found that life exists or had existed on Mars in the past, then it changes the way we look at the Universe. If life could develop on two planets in the same solar system, what does that say for the possibility and commonality of life elsewhere?
Perhaps Mars is boring. It's the same argument people said about the lunar missions a generation ago. It only became boring because we let it.
Take a step back and stand in awe of the fact that we have the ability to even do what we are doing. It isn't boring. It wasn't in 1969 and it isn't now. It should be considered anything but boring. Maybe if we hadn't gotten "bored" in 1972, it wouldn't be a robot up there analyzing samples up there and sending back imagery used preprogrammed commands on a 20 minute delay. It would be a man or woman instead, with us hearing their voice, the excitement and thrill at walking on another world and making that thrill of discovery, curiousity and exploration infectious to entire planet and to another generation. But we didn't. We should have.
Have a sense of romance and excitement. I wish I could send commands to the rover along the lines of "Look that way! What's over there?!?" or "Drive over there and look behind that rock.".
There are some things that should transcend day-to-day living and the focus on our daily lives and exist simply for the sake of doing it, cost and politics aside. Space exploration should be one of those things.
The moon doesn't have enough gravity to walk on...
Contrary to the photographic and video evidence of Apollo astronauts walking on the surface of the moon, and indeed, driving lunar buggies around on the surface?
I don't know how someone can say something like that with a straight face.
I think you are confusing scales. In the short term finding Osama MAY be more important than finding life, or traces of, somewhere else in the cosmos. But in the long term Osama doesn't matter in the least, neither does 9/11, America, You, I, or much else. Finding life would answer a COSMIC question, killing Osama with some little Geneva convention violating bug would answer a wholly secular, and temporal question.
Finding traces of life on Mars would further the work of Galaleo[sp], Darwin, Einstein, and all the other great minds who pushed the boundries of knowledge, who led to BIGGER questions. Finding Osama would make George Bush look like he already did not waste BILLIONS (not just millions) of dollars, and MIGHT increase Americas sense of security by a minute modicum.
Finding life would challenge theology, and put some serious stress on the creationists, which in my opinion is a good thing. It also would expand the Earthly feilds of science, answering some time-old questions. Finding Osama and killing him would only answer the question "Where is Osama?", which is of little importance to the world-as-a-whole, and the greater reach of intellectual history streaching before us.
Finding life would be comforting to us, now and generations hence. We would for once know that we are not alone, and that the odds of alien life, albeit simple, are greater than some nay-sayers say. Finding Osama, well, would be comforting to the US, at least until the next "evil doer" comes along to rain on our parade.
You must look at the bigger picture. Killing Osama is a sign of hatred, dark emotions, revenge, war. Finding life, a sign of hope, progress (in a good way), knowledge, and a greater respect for life itself. What is wrong with embracing both goals, vengence and death, and hope and respect?
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Wouldn't it be strange to find out that the rover has landed on an ancient pair of giant Martian underwear?
To what end do we use the answer to the question?
Well, inasmuch as the desire to know is part of our (humans) nature, knowing is an end in itself. That is, knowledge doesn't have to be useful as a means to an end to be worth pursuing. That's just the way we are. Knowledge often *is* useful, of course, but it doesn't have to be.
While I'm fascinated by the rovers on Mars and finding out what's there, is that really the best way to spend $400 million (not just dollars but resources)?
It's important to remember that when NASA spends USD 400M to learn about Mars, it's not as if they're dumping that money into a big pit, and then expecting to be given the information in exchange. They're paying contractors, vendors, and hosts of other private individuals and businesses for their time and efforts. The money is injected directly into the economy, which is a Good Thing. People often talk (though the parent didn't) about how the money spent on projects like this could go toward feeding the hungry or some other (admittedly) noble thing. Well, you might argue that NASA is (indirectly) feeding the hungry by giving millions of dollars of contract work to companies.
Belloc
I got more rhymes than Jamaica got Mangoes.
Perhapse the olivine is from whatever made that crator?
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" - George Orwell
No, if life is more universal it does not presuppose "a devine somebody-or-other", it would just mean that life is much more common than we thought. Evolution of life is not Earth specific in any way shape or form, actually it is quite easily generalized that life can be formed anywhere where conditions are permissable. Several prevalent theories actually do dictate an interstellar origin of life, by a nondevine seeding.
Actually, we owe most all of our science and technology to the long-term effects of those wonderous greeks. Science as we know is a direct result of Aristotle, most of the Christian dogma is a direct result of Aristotle as well. And early christian theology is a heavy borrower from Plato. Sure, even if in the dark-ages much of the actual writings of the Greeks were lost, the actual influence lived on.
Killing Osama, as the original post recomended, is a ultimatly futile gesture anyways, long or short term, due to Americas worstening reputation. The only fix for our political problem, and those who would blow us up, is a LONG-TERM policy fix. Everything could be lost by History, the world could end tomorrow, so by your reasoning there is no point in even short term fixes, since the short-term may ultimatly be too long.
I'm not thinking of long-term in a technological sence, I'm thinking of it in a spiritual and philosophical sence. Things that shape human thought are ultimatly more important than things. Sure the V2 opened the door for many things intellectual (most unrealized), it proves to be a TOOL, and not something that changed people themselves.
And, BTW, we didn't kill Hitler, he managed to do that himself.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
I'm sorry, but that article is total bullshit.
The math is wrong. In a string of 10 dna bases there are only 4^10 possible combinations, and because of the way base pairs meet each other half of these are exactly the same.
(4^10)/2=524288
The article asumes that there is only one correct string of dna, and only that one correct string will work to allow life. this is false, but given their example the "magic" sequence would be one of only this small handfull.
If you have ever looked at dna you will see that it is mostly random with areas of repetition, not ordered in the way they put forth. there are huge swaths of DNA, that do nothing, in our genome.
The article asumes that there is only one correct string of dna, and only that one correct string will work to allow life. this is false.
Cells are not ordered. they are a complete mess of shit that somehow works. true there are regions within cells that do different jobs, but for the most part cells vary widely and could certainly not be considered "ordered" in the way that idea is presented.
also, the view of "information" they present is false. A string of digits in order contains 1 piece of information. a string of seemingly random numbers can mean an infinity of things depending on how you decipher it. there is a reason we call it genetic "code".
If you truly believe what that article says, read this website and kindly do not reproduce. It is as close as I have found to memetic birth control, and a weak-minded person might believe it's arguments leaving others to evolve without them.
-John Fenley
The surface isn't as dusty as they originally thought right? If dust is the limiting factor on Spirits battery life since it eventually blocks out it's solar panels. Dust will now accumulate at a much slower rate and thereby give Spirit a much longer life. We might have a good year of roving possible. Think of how much we could explore!
Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise
I find myself wandering; "If we find life on Mars will it be related?"
Meteorites originating from mars do land on earth. Surly rocks from earth have found there way to mars. Perhaps taking life with them? We are losing some of our outer atmosphere all the time, surly some microbes must escape also? They would face the cold vacuum of space and all that radiation, dieing a cold lonely death. But give our microbe a big enough rock of the right type, and there would seem to be some hope of survival.
Have you got a relative on Mars?