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Mars Express Confirms Water on Mars
jki writes "So, finally: Through the initial mapping of the South polar cap on 18 January, OMEGA, the combined camera and infrared spectrometer, has already revealed the presence of water ice and carbon dioxide ice. This information was confirmed by the PFS, a new high-resolution spectrometer of unprecedented accuracy. The first PFS data also show that the carbon oxide distribution is different in the northern and southern hemispheres of Mars. The MaRS instrument, a sophisticated radio transmitter and receiver, emitted a first signal successfully on 21 January that was received on Earth through a 70- metre antenna in Australia after it was reflected and scattered from the surface of Mars. This new measurement technique allows the detection of the chemical composition of the Mars atmosphere, ionosphere and surface." On another note, NASA has gotten some sort of signal from Spirit, but it's still not fully functional.
It's just sitting there sulking.
Any chance it can confirm the location of our missing landers?
Sweet, so when do I get my free shrimp?!?
So Spirit tripped and drowned in a puddle of mud?
"Honey, I feel a certain distance between us..." "Really? A 31ms ping ain't that bad..."
...we're all still waiting for confirmation of bacteria and/or bacteria fossils. I certainly hope that NASA can establish good contact with Spirit again soon, and that Opportunity lands safely tomorrow!
libertarianswag.com
10 minutes at 10 bits/s, I wonder what was important enough to spent those bytes on...
;-)
If Nasa-geeks are anything like other geeks, it must've been either martian porn or nethack I guess. The former being more likely.
Karma? What's that again?
... how are they going to get the bottling plant up there?
It has been confirmed on the north pole before, but not the south. That's why it's news.
it's in my head
As a scientist, although I find it very interesting that they have "discovered" water on Mars, I do no think it is the ground breaking discovery that it has been played up as.
:-)
From the geological appearance water was always expected, Hydrogen and Oxygen are both abundant enough (in the early history of Mars - not in the atmosphere at the moment). H2O is the thermodynamic result.
Although the absence of water would almost certainly have procluded the existance of "life" on Mars, the existance of water is not, in itself, that startling a discovery.
It is important that scientific funding goes towards real science and not satisfying the public demand for fantastic revelations!
Finally, well done ESA for building a spectrometer that accurate, and getting it there
no, we knew that there was frozen carbon dioxide on mars (dry ice), but not water ice. we've believed there has been water on the planet at some point due to certain geographical and geological reasons (the way some of the rocks are pointing the same direction, the "canals", etc, etc), but we don't know for sure that there actually was water on the planet.
Looks like some telemetry was just received from Spirit:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/2004/30.cfm
Terraforming?! Do you know what this means? It means that we now have rocket fuel, air, and drinkable water all for the taking! The primary equipment necessary is one nuclear power plant! That just leaves the problem of rockets that are still in one piece by the time they make it to Mars.
Segway into GCNR rockets. They can be used for space travel, and landing and taking off. We could even build CO2 breathing "flyers" for easy transport from orbit to the surface and back. If NASA can, they should start work on the proper engines immediately! WhooHoo!!!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Does anyone have a comprehensive list of what the rovers are designed to deal with?
It may be time to return to a soft landing strategy.
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
Moderation: -0.66 Mildly Off-Topic
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Wow.. That's a little more than one ascii character per second... I can see the bits coming down now: A...L...I...E...N...A...T...T...A...C...K
NO CARRIER
Actually, I believe the NASA discovery was at the North pole, though I agree that this news is not very groundbreaking.
BTW, does anyone know how they identified the North/South poles? Was a compass sent there in a previous mission, or was it an arbitrary decision?
/* This sig is disabled. Press CTRL-W to enable. Thankyou */
Last communications between NASA and Spirit....
NASA: MOVE FORWARD 10
SPIRIT: 10? Ok 10 METERS [whir.. Trundle]
NASA: NO NO. 10 FEET!
SPIRIT: OOPS..
NASA: WHAT HAPPENED?!?!?! REQUEST STATUS REPORT!
SPIRIT: LOCATION - OLD RIVERBED
GOOD NEWS - FOUND WATER
BETTER NEWS - LOTS OF WATER
BAD NEWS - NOT WATERPROO...#%$&#..... Bzzzzzzzzzzzt
NASA: DAMN!!!!!!!
Have a nice day!
I work in the oilfield operating a 2 tons monstrosity called an MWD. These things are used to transmit data from up to a 10 km deep hole and on the basis of this data the decision of which way to drill a well are made (oil wells are usually not vertical affairs these days). Multi-million dollar decisions are regularly made on a data from a transfer rate of less than 10 bps, 6 bps is excellent and transmission rates are often in the range of 0.5-3 bits per second. You would be surprised at how much system information can be crammed into that bandwidth if the programmers are clever. Incidentally, my tools use a modulation/demodulation scheme similar to that used on the Voyager probes, we just have to transmit through viscous mud with pressure instead of light across the solar system.
-------------------------------END--COMMUNICATION
Why is it bad news for the brits.. it's good news for everyone. Science is not a competitive pursuit.. it's a collaborative one.
In breaking news today, NASA's Spirit probe transmitted data confirming the existence of rocks on the red planet. "We're very excited" said Aloisious Smythe Ponsonby-Jones, project manager of the Mars mission's rock-finding department. "Right on this picture, you can see a little redd-ish one, and here another. This one's shaped like an egg, and the second one, if you look carefully, has a little face shape on it."
The mission's dust-detection sub-project, as well as its quest to determine whether Mars is, indeed, reddish-brown colored, are still awaiting further data.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
i mean...I know they got limited bandwidth and all, but what sort of protocol do they use?
good lord, this is an incredibly geeky question, but I'm serious, i wanna know.
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
It's kind of sad really all these nerds who pretty much owe their lives, livelihoods and amusement to advanced technology constantly pooh poohing this great science going on.
Ah well - the confluence of indifference, stupidity and radical Libertarian 'prices of everything'.
See If NASA promised that Mars science would guarantee the slashnerds could share illegal music for free forever I'm pretty sure those damn Trekkie buffoons could get behind it.
Live long and eat Cheetos, fat goofy weird comicbook store guy.
For purposes of Long John Silver's offer, an ocean is defined as a single body of water, the surface area of which equals or exceeds five million square kilometers.
Er... I'm pretty sure they're safe on this one.
You must be from Japan ?s pacecraft/ tworovers_br.html
If the rover is the size of compact car, it is very compact !
Here are both the current rover and the previous one in the same picture:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/
One seat could barely fit.
That's why you're not an engineer for NASA. You worry about the little things or you stand on the sideline and watch.
Hmph, this is so obvious. Even a child knows, that north is the one that is upwards in your map. Just look at any map of Mars and... Oh, never mind
Sigs for Nerds. Sigs that Matter.
Of course, it was probably the Venusian railway network where Elron Hubbard claimed he was almost hit by a train...
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Easy, Martian atmosphere pressure is only 1% that of Earth's. So whilst the winds on Mars can reach enormous speeds, they actually exert very little force.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Why does every press release have to mention how they are doing it "better" than we Americans are...
The press release doesn't even mention the USA or NASA...
... and now you're just as aggressively generalizing and attacking Europe. *sigh* Try to show some class and not yourself fall down to the levels of those you're attacking (or your impression of them).
All I can see is that they're very excited, happy and proud by the results, as they should be. These feelings are all positive ones and a sign that they're dedicated to the work they do. I seem to recall NASA engineers crying in joy when the Spirit sent back its first signals. I understand them, and I understand why ESA is very relieved by these achievements. They need all the success and publicity they can get, just like NASA, since space organizations like these are constantly fighting to not have their fundings lowered.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Mars' magnetic field is only a tiny fraction of that of Earth's and is actually dominated by regional poles rather than the strong magnetic poles on Earth. Mars does not appear to have a dynamic Core so its magnetic field is actually the one frozen into the planet when its hot interior solidified.
So a compass wouldn't be much help.
The answer is that the North Martian Pole is the one pointing in much the same way as the Earth's North Pole.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Why does every press release have to mention how they are doing it "better" than we Americans are.
Err, the only mention of Europe in the press release was the very last paragraph.. "Mrs Edelgard Bulmahn, German Minister for Research and Education, who is also chair of the ESA Council at ministerial level, said at the press conference: "Europe can be proud of this mission: Mars Express is an enormous success for the European space programme."
We are looking at the same press release, right? Because that quote doesn't seem to justify your assertion that ESA has a serious case of American Wang Envy
There is a place for Europe and the US and [insert name of country here] in space exploration. And justification in each country being proud of its successes, and congratulating the others on their successes.
If Mrs Bulmahn's comments offended you that much, then I apologise on her behalf, and on the behalf of The whole damn socialist European Union
Well, you can have two kinds of poles: geographic and magnetic.
Magnetic is the way your compass points. Planets do not have to have an appreciable magnetic field, so it is possible to have a planet without a magnetic north.
Geographic is based on the direction of a planet's spin. Here's one way to choose geographic north: the right-hand rule.
Stick out your right-hand like you are going to shake hands, but with your thumb pointing upwards. Now curl your fingers in towards your palm. If the curling of your fingers occurs in the same direction as the planet is spinning then north is in the direction of your thumb. If your fingers are curling opposite to the direction of the spin then your thumb is pointing south.
The right-hand rule is used a great deal in the world of physics.
Life is short: void the warranty.
Updated Mars Exploration Rover Mission Status January 23, 2004
The flight team for NASA's Spirit received data from the rover in a communication session that began at 13:26 Universal Time (5:26 a.m. PST) and lasted 20 minutes at a data rate of 120 bits per second.
"The spacecraft sent limted data in a proper response to a ground command, and we're planning for commanding further communication sessions later today," said Mars Exploration Rover Project Manager Pete Theisinger at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
The flight team at JPL had sent a command to Spirit at 13:02 Universal Time (5:02 PST) via the NASA Deep Space Network antenna complex near Madrid, Spain, telling Spirit to begin transmitting.
By increasing the digit at then of of this http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/2004/30.cfm, you can get more news.
This one above is somewhat upbeat. The data rate from this last communication went from 10 minutes at 10 bits per second to 20 minutes at 120 bits per second.
Not quite live streaming, but not yet slashdoted either.
The press release doesn't even mention the USA or NASA...
You must've not read all the way to the end. I quote the last paragraph:
Mrs Edelgard Bulmahn, German Minister for Research and Education, who is also chair of the ESA Council at Ministerial level, said at the press conference: "Europe can be proud of this mission: Mars Express is an enormous success for the European Space Programme. We rule! In your FACE, NASA! Your rover SUCKS! Who's laughing NOW!"
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
It's probably not the most efficient way to obtain pretty wallpaper for my 2048x1024 desktop, but it's appreciated none the less.
But why? In all seriousness what reason do we have to go to Mars? The moon is a much better astronomy platform since it has no atmosphere and lower gravity, plus it is much easier to get to.
So what purpose does going to Mars serve? I am a physicist btw, working on GLAST for what is is worth.
Mars Express has ground-penetrating radar that can read down to 3 miles, so it should see the ice lenses of the cryosphere. We found so much water just from the epithermal neutron counter on Odyssy.
I haven't seen anyone note yet that in 2002 NASA discovered the exact same.
No, they didn't. They demonstrated that it was very likely that water was present; the press at the time obviously played that up as "we've found water", but it was not proven. As recently as two or three months ago I remember reading articles about how what they found might not actually be water at all.
What the European mission has now done is proven beyond reasonable doubt that the hydrogen Nasa found is, as we thought, contained in water.
This is not pointless duplication of effort - it's a perfect example of two space agencies producing complementary work and building on each others' successes to further human knowledge.
And it's a crying shame that idiots in America and Europe alike - I'm speaking in general terms, not at you specifically - feel compelled to put down the other side's efforts and hype up their own.
This is science, not sport - everyone's on the same side here.
In all seriousness what reason do we have to go to Mars?
That is a difficult question, isn't it? The most common (and vague) answer would be Hillary's, "Because it's there." While that may not seem like a very good reason on the surface, it's really just an attempt to explain a strong pioneering spirit that is pervasive in many cultures.
To actually look at the benefits of space travel however, you need to look at it from an economic standpoint instead of a scientific one. Opening up space to colonization would trigger a new economy. Those who take the step toward space will need various raw materials. Those raw materials are plentiful on asteroids, moons, and planetoids. Thus space based businesses could make a mint by mining and selling raw materials. Those raw materials could then be processed by space smelters and factories. Those factories could then produce a variety of products, including space craft such as cruise ships or colonization ships. Various institutions could then form colonization efforts where the cost is split among the settlers. (Similar to the settlers of the Americas; the Mayflower being a common example.)
But what does this have to do with Mars? Well, space is a pretty vast place. If we assume for a moment that companies become interested in mining asteroids in the belt just past Mars, then we have to ask the question of how they're going to be supported. Sending ships from Earth would be problematic at best, very slow with catastrophic results in case of failure at worst. However, if Mars were used as a staging point for mining support and materials processing, trips back and forth could be substantially shortened.
Of course, all of this requires the development of high thust AND high Isp engines. Of all the options available, only nuclear engines meet the necessary criteria. GCNR (Gas Core Nuclear Rocket) engines can throw the same mass as chemical engines, but have a much higher Isp (3000-5000). These would work well as a launch solution, space plane solution (since they could potentially "breath" atmospheric gases), and as a initial solution for interplanetary travel. However, even GCNR engines have a low Isp when you take into account how much space is out there. Thus the next step would be the development of pure space drives such as Orion or Nuclear Salt Rockets. Both of these would provide an excellent solution for non-landing craft with high thrust, high Isp, and excellent fuel and mass capacity. They'd have so much power, that they could easily carry GCNR space plane crafts as landing shuttles. (The largest Orion design calls for 8 million tons of ship mass.)
More info on propulsion methods on Wikipedia.
Does that help explain it?
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Some say we should worry more about incoming asteroids wiping out all life on earth which would mean we should establish human colonies on the Moon, Mars and elsewhere to hedge our bets against such an occurance (could return to repopulate the planet after a time). Others say earth is heading for environmental disaster and the solution might be to leave it for lifeless places and artificial environments where we can do no harm. Others yet want us to think about overpopulation which could be solved by spreading out to other planets and while others say that sociopolitical causes are the main of hunger today, there is a limit to the number of people that can live here.
Why did people come to the New World, not just in Columbus' time but earlier from Asia? Why did they send their canoes to Pacific islands? The time will come that our reasons will match theirs. Today the reasons are not yet there and the will is only shared by a few but the reasons will likely become more apparent and the population more willing with time.
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???
Unfortunately, it is the government's responsibility to encourage new economic growth. Capitalism is great (at least I like it), but it requires that the government help it along every once in awhile. Since space is not a "safe" investment, no company is going to invest in it. Not to mention that Nuclear technologies are still carefully controlled. Thus the government is going to have to develop the initial technology, prove it, then give it away to companies who wish to make a profit on it.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I'm not an astrophysicist, but based on things I've read, I wouldn't expect 100GeV stuff coming from the sun. But there are other things in the universe (black holes, magnetars) that can make photons and other stuff with that kind of energy, and much higher (I've seen some articles about cosmic rays with energies of ~10^21 eV, although nobody knows for sure where they come from).
As far as distance from the source goes, photons only get scattered if they interact with something . As long as there's not much between 'there' and 'here,' they can get through, even if it does take a while.
[b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']