Slashdot Mirror
Forums for Windows Admins?
Work-w/-MCSEs asks: "I work with Microsoft products for a living, as well as for fun. I've been lurking in Slashdot discussions for a while now. I find a lot of the stories interesting, but it is obviously geared more toward Unix people. Stories about MS products are often full of flames. I can see the reasons why Microsoft users aren't accepted as 'true geeks'. I acknowledge that Unix people are more technical (by necessity since they often compile their own software), and I'm not asking or expecting the attitudes here to change. However, I do wish I could find a similar forum for us to talk about our chosen operating system, applications, viruses, and other issues. Usenet is just too full of spam to be useful. Where is a Windows user to go for good discussion?"
I know you don't want to hear this, but the good posts makes the occasional spam well worth it. Oh yeah, and FP.
Usually take place over at symantec.com. They're full of all the information you need to secure your machine against the latest exploits and viruses.
I mean, that's what you want to talk about, right? The exploits?
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On a more serious note, I'm not sure such a true forum exists simply because of the way Windows is run. Linux (and slashdot) are much more meltingpot, and the ideas here are really just a community reflection. I mean, supposing someone *does* come up with some great code ideas and additions to Windows, how will they go about getting those changes implemented?
Most Windows forums that I've seen are either "ask the experts" things or "games games games". Lots of good Linux info can be found on slashdot, lots of good windows info can be found scattered around by means of the google.
Heh, well, normally I would say go Google for it, but in your case, you may feel more comfortable with an MSN Search :P
p.s. Perhaps here?
I've been using this one for years: http://www.experts-exchange.com
It's mostly help forums, but I haven't really felt a strong desire to get in touch with people on the grounds of a single software paradigm.
Learn to filter. Learn to use groups.google.com. Also, even when no one else is helping you and you find the answer elsewhere, post back to the board in question with the answer, if for no other reason, that you can find it again in groups.google.com -- embarassingly, I have plugged in complete questions into google and found the forum where I asked the exact same question 2 years ago.
Like Paul Thourout's (sp?) winsuperduperxxxtrasite should lead you in the right direction. Then again in the windows world, news == a MS press release == FUD/propaganda so good luck sifting the BS.
I want 2D games back.
Most good sysadmins have to wear multiple OS hats so here's a bunch that I frequent when researching for solutions....
http://www.sysinternals.com...it's a decent place for windows related discussions...
For sun stuff, the best place is really sun itself http://forum.sun.com...
For tru64 stuff go subscribe to the tru64 mailing lists, I think it's the only thing that's staying alive for that stuff...
as for Linux, well...really you could look just about anywhere for that...
http://bink.nu/
http://www.only4gurus.com/v2/index.asp
Hope that helps.
Unique.
Start your own forum. It worked for Slashdot, it might work for you.
By default, Windows is very insecure, and does need adjusting to become a fast, tech-friendly environment, but so does any Linux distro (although it's usually more secure by default). Being a Windows admin doesn't have to mean a dearth of techincal knowledge. EDUCATE YOURSELF. Don't rely on your PC or OS to educate you. Read technical books, play with hardware, get Cygwin and play with the command line tools. Compile your own programs, too. There's lots of open source Windows software. Learn to program, also.
Don't be intimidated by someone just because they use Linux. Don't be intimidated by the OS holy wars that have been raging since before DOS even existed. Anyone who says ONE OS is better than all is a fool. They're all around because of various niches that needed filled. Linux is growing while Windows is flattening (they're BOTH fattening, too...), sure, but that doesn't mean you're not a useful Admin.
Now, that said, I'll preemptively defend myself. I'd never put Windows up as a server, unless we're talking a home net where the server is also used as a PC. Putting Windows as a server on the net is insane. Linux is far superior there. But, as it stands, Windows is still a better desktop OS. I do sincerely hope Linux keeps improving there, though. Competition is good.
jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
Microsoft does have a news server which I use occassionally, both on the Web and through NNTP. There's alot of granularity in the groups, which is nice when I'm, say, working on a scripting problem, I can hit the .NET Scripting group and get good responses. There's also multiple languages available, perhaps useful for non-English speakers. But, unless if you're looking for more general discussions like Slashdot has, I don't think you'll find it there.
For general sysadmin and related discussion, problem solving, tips, etc., I've found mailing lists are much more manageable and informative. A real good provider is Sunbelt Software. The NTSysAdmin and Exchange lists are the most popular and general (and the only ones I'm a member of), but there's also ones dedicated to Windows security, Active Directory, etc. Be aware, though, that there's a LOT of traffic on some of these lists. Mine go into a Public Folder, but you can also get the digest if you prefer. One other one that I have used and recommend is the WinNT-List. I'm not on it currently, but mainly because of time restraints. Then again...I hardly check the Sunbelt lists anymore either....
And, of course, I've yet to find a similar forum to replace Slashdot's unique blend of tech, news, and politics...that's why I'm still here.
Look for the microsoft.public.windows* hierarchy. Keep in mind many of these are not very active and some of them (for some reason) are pretty much abandoned because they're duplicated. But use Google to see which ones are more active.
The servers have very little spam and as most non-technoreligious deals they're mostly technical and to the point, though you do see the occasional flame war.
Plus, it's Usenet so just use whatever NNTP reader you like and post away.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
I write for Windows boxen all the time. I use MS's own site, where they host newgroups, BBSs, publish white papers, host sample code, and have entire ".NET channel" TV-like programs to suck bandwidth.
/. is your best choice. Sorry.
/. for the fun of it. I won't tell anyone you're not a "real geek" if you don't bring it up ;)
All in all, MS wants nobody to feel confused or threatened using their software, including admins. This means everything is hosted, or sysadmin'd by people who just get to the fact, no BS. So, your slashdot-like knockabout sites are elsewhere. There are lots of them (google Expert/Advice/Programming) in various flavors of competance.
Those thick books people layer on their desk are great now and then, but at ~$50 a pop, you may want to just register for an online book resource. Sorry, no link, but Books24x7 and stuff like that.
So if you want technial knowledge, MS shovels it out. Magazines, websites galore. If you're looking for general "science news" and the resultant BS chatter, then
Personally I reconcile the two by not trying to change the world everywhere. My company pays me to do technical, and mostly interesting work. If it's on an MS box, an automotive-microcontroller, or just DSP math research in school, you're still in the tech world. So just put up with the flames and read
I work with Microsoft products for a living, as well as for fun. ...
you sadist !
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Ars Technica, known for alot of good articles often referred to on slashdot and other sites, have a very active forum which includes NT, Win2K and XP Technical Mojo. From my limited knowledge it seems like the place you are looking for.
Its known for its Windows bias, but still has the other interesting geek related articles common to slashdot.To some of my geeky windows buddys , this is their slashdot.
I personally find the windows bias rather annoying but then Im a linux guy!
Oh, and the link http://www.neowin.net/
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
But you seem to have figured that out already.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
When I used to work with Windows, I found Russ Cooper's NTBugtraq mailing list to be an invaluable resource.
More info at http://www.ntbugtraq.com/
-molo
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
You are very welcome on Slashdot. Those aren't flames you are seeing, they are people trying to cope with Microsoft's abusiveness. With Linux and BSD, the users come first. There are no billionaires to spoil the party.
Slashdot published my questions about drive imaging software and about mirroring controllers. Both discussions were very valuable to me in my work on Windows systems:
Experiences w/ Drive Imaging Software?
Mirroring Controllers - What have been Your Experiences?
Microsoft has serious management problems. People don't always know how to respond to this. Sometimes they become very upset.
On the other hand, I feel some sympathy for Microsoft's managers. It is not easy to run a large corporation in a caring way.
I think you have cause and effect mixed up here.
You mean Expert bait-'n-switch, don't you?
I feel sorry for all the schmoes who put their time and energy into giving Experts Exchange their hard-earned knowledge.
I searched the other day on an issue with Exchange server; when I did a Google search for the relevant information I was pointed to Experts Exchange. The problem was, the page was no longer available--unless I paid for a subscription.
I had to read the google archive to get the info.
Experts Exchange is the epitome of what defines open vs. closed source products and knowledge. (And as much as I love the BSD's) Experts Exchange shows exactly what kind of protection the GPL provides us, as the valuable assets we are--whether it's our knowledge of building products, or building the documentation they require.
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
I just found out about a new site, www.Adminforums.com. It's not bad, and just getting off the ground so it's a great way to get in and help shape it.
Learn to Improvise
However, I do wish I could find a similar forum for us to talk about our chosen operating system, applications, viruses, and other issues.
It's called MSDN and microsoft.com. You can also hire consultants, subscribe to commercial newsletters, and go to commercial training courses. You picked a commercial platform, your support is going to be commercial and you get astroturf for a community. I mean, what do you expect?
Linux and open source isn't as much about the software, it's about the community. If you want an open source-like community, you have to use software that comes out of that community, even if you would prefer something else in terms of software.
Occasionally, you will find a commercial platform with a vibrant and enthusiastic user community. But such situations usually only arise when the commercial platform is a technological breakthrough, and they usually don't last more than a few years. Eventually, people ask themselves: why should I work for free, only so that the company that's making the product can cut back on support and increase their profits?
I use one of 3 resources for windows administrating:
...all I know is that is my only email account that gets spam and those lists are all that it's used for...and i don't post, just read.)
www.eventid.net
support.microsoft.com
and microsofts, relatively spam free, free public news forums:
news.microsoft.com (ok, or deja/google which ever you like better...i'm still old school with the newsreaders and such)
For up to date information, i subscribed to the following mailing lists:
bugtraq
multiple securityfocus lists
symantec
(word of caution: bugtraq and securityfocus groups have been having ocassional spammer breakin's who have spammed the list, and/or stolen the emails and handed them out like candy!
Other then that the rest is just propaganda/FUD type of news crapola.
Actually, for solaris/linux/windows news I rely mostly on the mailing lists.
Oh, yeah theregister.co.uk is another all around good news source, too.
Since the source code to slashdot is available, domains come pretty cheap these days and even dedicated servers aren't just for the richest anymore, why don't you build your own slashdot-like WIndows community?
I am positive you are not the only Windows user lurking on slashdot for a good discussion... I know I was back in my WIndows admin days. (Which have long since passed)
The Microsoft Developers Network. If you are not a member join. You will get more information than you can shake a stick at. IF you are looking for the social aspects... Good luck.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Of Course, as one the most populer desktop OSes out there Microsoft has it's niche. I myself like Microsoft. Business parctices, security and such have jaded me, but when it comes down to it, I am a MS fanboy. Maybe it's ignoramce with program compatibility and for that matter driver compatibility, Ms has and does what I need for a desktop OS. Now I am still curious about Macs, there are cute, and have much less issues, the eye candy of course is pretty, but I do not own one. In the end it will come down to the coke vs pepsi debate, but MS has done so much for the development of PCs and hopefully will continue. On a side note I am very interested in Sun's desktop OS, looks very cool , new features, very useable. Only time will tell
I wanted a place for highly technical information about Linux, particularly programming documentation. I'd read the HOWTO's and had used google, but was irritated that google tended to find me the question, but rarely the answer.
My solution was to set up the WLUG Wiki. If you can find a group of like minded people to "seed" the community with your problems (and solutions) then slowly, over time other people join in. We've been running the wlug wiki for 18 months now, and it's now the top hit on google for all kinds of things, and is linked from all kinds of official pages as documentation.
Theres been several people that have said that they'd love to have a general "system administration" wiki for Windows, but there are none (and I'm not going to set one up -- I don't know enough about administering windows!)
So, set one up, it's not difficult. Try and write down what problems you've solved each day and what their solution were into the wiki, and try and get a couple of other people to join in. Pretty soon you'll have created you're own resource
Well, some of us go to www.sleepwalkers.org :) I would recommend u to IRC! :) specially DALnet , #SQL is a nice channel.
"I acknowledge that Unix people are more technical (by necessity since they often compile their own software)"
I disagree. Yes, paper MCSE-morons are less technical since they view the world as a series of wizards, magical patches, and religious rites (like reboots).
However, true windows experts are _way_ more techincal than Unix type people. Unix people get to look at source code to figure out how things work. Unix people get to rely on published standards for reference. Unix people get to draw on decades of collective experience and can often see how things evolved over time, and usually have some kind of known-good reference site to emulate.
Windows, on the other hand, requires you to work with closed, buggy code, figure out where the bugs are and how to work around them, figure out what proprietary 'extensions' MS has 'helpfully added' to otherwise standard protocols, figure out how to script an essentially unscriptable system, deal with mysterious registry problems, malware, viruses, virtually no security to protect important files, etc. Ever try to replicate an IIS metabase to several servers? Ask an apache admin how hard it is (copy a few text files), then a seasoned windows person (buy a really expensive tool from Microsoft, or try to script it, or use ghost to move _the_entire_operating_system, or more likely manually point and click through the whole thing). Then think about which has the more challenging job. The Apache guy just needs to know a text editor and some copy commands. The Windows guy needs to understand, at a fundamental level, how the metabase file is used, why it cant be copied directly, and how to work around the situation. Frequently this type of problem then requires you to purchase a tool, either from MS or a 3rd party which means the ability to understand the problem well enough to explain it to management, evaluate the options, etc.
So, no, I don't think Unix people are more technical, they just aren't as masochistic.
"But actually trying to use m4 as a general-purpose langage would be deeply perverse" --ESR
...that we're "more technical" because we have better toys. Having any modern Linux distribution is like having a honking great Lego (tm) collection (top toy, and it runs under MS-Windows as well). Having MS-Windows is like having Barbie dolls - sure they look pretty, and have all of these neat (and expensive) accessories, but after you've posed them in variations of six different ways, that's about it for imagination. For kids, it's time to rip the legs off and see what makes them go.
The shiny stuff in modern Linux distros (KDE, GNOME etc) is like modern Lego in that it is kind of pre-built. This takes some of the fun out of it but also saves doing some repetitive tasks (e.g. "assemble Bob the Builder model") and more accurately represents small objects.
PS, I very seldom "compile my own software" (although I've been doing a lot of it this last week for customers). When I do, I sing halleliujahs for the ability to do it, sadly absent in much MS-Windows software. But for 99% of what I do, eminently suitable "shrink-wrapped" versions exist, and most stuff is modular enough that BASH will glue it together if the existing stuff falls short.
Oh... that's right, you don't have BASH. Well, try the CygWin suite which includes it, and/or pull down a free PERL and have a go with that as a glue language.
I haven't had time to er, use usenet for ages. Google's interface is a pretty good newbie gateway to it.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
You may want to try the Active Network Forums.
It's run based off a site that is dedicated to technical information of Microsoft Products, and the forums tend to be a good place to ask questions and get some results. As with any forum, there'll be a fair bit of chatter, but overall it's pretty good.
Check it out.
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
Installing software on Mandrake (and SuSE, Fedora, most modern distros) is also a click-click-all-done process, and configuring it usefully is no harder than MS-Windows and often easier since little details aren't squirrelled away somewhere fifteen menus deep with a nebulous title. In fact, you can just click on mod_php in rpmdrake, click on yes, and it will install Apache and everything else it wants as a consequence of that. The absence of scripting-by-default is a feature: users and attackers don't have the same opportunities to mess about with things.
The difference is that the MS-Windows services are typically flat on their backs and legs spread from a security perspective, and it takes a fair bit of configuration work to make them properly secure. I can bung a Mandrake CD in, install stuff, pull down the updates (mandatory for MS-Windows too, of course) and be happy.
The only time I really need a firewall on a Linux box is when I'm using something like Samba, which is constrained by the hopeless SMB/CIFS protocol to always have one port open on all interfaces. MS-Windows, on the other hand, hasn't always been entirely honest about exactly what it does have open (nmap is your friend).
It's also worth noting that over 90% of the useful security tools like nmap, Ethereal and Nessus started life in Unix/Linux land and now have MS-Windows ports available only thanks to the properties of the GPL, so remember to burn incense to Saint Richard of Stallman whenever you use one to save an MS-Windows box's bacon. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
If I seem short-sighted, it is because I stand in the footprints of giants.
I also like:
Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he sits in a small boat drinking beer.
or:
Give a man a fish, he owes you one fish.
Teach a man to fish, and you have a new competitor.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Hey, it works for me! (-:
In C, for the command line, that's BackslashBackslashBackslashBackslashDot, of course. <g/d/r>
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Administration, high-end troubleshooting, and system architecture for all things New Technology (Win2K, XP, and .NET). If you don't know what "HAL" stands for, you should probably post in MSOS&SC for the best results.
There's good discussion to be had in various Windows-centric articles here... You've just got to wait for one to show up, and deal with the occasional elitists who pen lengthy attacks on Microsoft.
Yes, I know there are lies, damned lies, and stats, but the stats here have always shown that most of the Slashdotters are good little Microsoft customers using Windows and IE.
...a time when the GUI's opinion of routing differed from textmode's opinion (ie actual) routing, in weird ways.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
goatse.cx
Tek-Tips is pretty useful. There is some decent advise on there, although if you have a really obscure question, don't expect an answer. It's free. There servers are kinda slow, though, and wouldn't survive a good Slashdotting.
Not really a good "chat" forum, though, like in the way that Slashdot is.
Just pointing out.that you can do exactly that with win xp. What don't believe me? ok, take a look at This
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
I know thats where i'd be if i had to administer windows boxes.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
I've been reading Ntfaq.com for years and IMO it's at least a good place to start when beginning to administer Windows platforms. I am not sure if the forums are what you've been looking for but you can see it for yourself.
You can always find more information on the Microsoft community here.
This is an ok place to start. http://labmice.net www.googel.com is always a good start /io-wait
To actually try and answer the question at hand:
c rosoft.comt echrepublic.com
a nge.orgp stick.comn swers.com
Forums & News Servers
http://www.dalantech.com
nntp://news.mi
http://www.anandtech.com
http://www.
http://www.tek-tips.com
Resource Sites:
http://www.labmice.net
http://www.msexch
http://www.isaserver.org
http://www.sli
http://www.jsiinc.com
http://www.moma
http://www.eventid.net
Just some of the sites that I have used for work in the Windows world. Some are really good, some less-than. I am not endorsing or claiming this is the best definitive list, but should be a starting point.
I've found the best Windows help to be on the microsoft.public newsgroups. Most ISPs carry them. If yours doesn't, you can connect to msnews.microsoft.com
Stick to this issues, ask good questions, and refrain from adolescent anti-Microsoft and pro-Unix rants, and you'll get plenty of good advice. Don't do this, and you'll be ignored.
Hell.
That's where all the windows luser will be.
Think of it as distributed reference validation. (-:
My favourite on-line error report is this 1996 CERT Advisory, the original CA-96.13.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Not necessarily to replace what you do with Windows. But since there's obviously a lot of discussion going on about Linux, you shouldn't have trouble learning it, and you will learn more about Windows that way. Maybe until you become an expert yourself.
By then, you'll want to find a forum to use. But by then, hopefully you'll have decided to use Linux anyway.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
As a Linux consultant who works largely with mostly-Windows organizations, I find it especially difficult to find good discussions of cross-platform issues.
For instance, I'd like to get the copy of SquirrelMail I'm running on a Linux server to use the LDAP functionality of my client's MS Active Directory server. Unfortunately, as in all LDAP-related things I've tried, it's definitely not just a matter of pointing the client at the server. And, even though I can find stuff at Microsoft on things like their AD LDAP schemas, it would take me hours to learn enough about all of this to even begin trying to get it to work. All this just so we can have the directory of email addresses in AD available in SquirrelMail!
Any suggestions for good places to look on *nix+Windows cross-platform issues?
A good windows site something similar to Slashdot that I just discovered this week is ActiveWin. There doesen't appear to be very many users there and I've only seen a few posts on the site but I think that it has potential. From the few posts that I have ever saw there seems to be a lot of Linux haters, kind of reminds of the all windows haters on slashdot. The site is almost some type of strange backwards Slashdot about Windows and windows software that has very few users.