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Trying Your Hand at Level Design?

Utawoutau asks: "As a student nearing graduation with high interest yet no game industry experience I have been taking a serious look at the position of Level Designer. In order to apply for such a position of course, I would need an impressive portfolio. I am aware that a number of games, Neverwinter Nights for example, come packaged with level development tools and that a number of other games have tools (official or not) that are readily available on the Internet. I am interested in hearing opinions from others that have experimented with the level design tools for a number of games as to what they found the easiest, the most fun, the most in depth, and the most impressive to work with. In particular, I am interested in a game whose tools strike a good balance between all four of the above criteria."

24 of 382 comments (clear)

  1. I'm not a game programmer by ObviousGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But the friends of mine who are do not find the industry all that they expected it to be. The fun and games that you would expect from a game company is actually politics and stress in reality.

    You end up working long hours on a game that will be released when you know it's only half done, only to be laid off the week after the game ships.

    Do yourself a favor and buy a Vanagon and go on a long road trip instead.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:I'm not a game programmer by Lord+Kano · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This sounds a bit like those tales pr0n stars tell about how much it sucks (no pun intended) to work in that business.

      Sure, you get to fuck a lot of really hot women, but you have to work long (no pun intended) hours under adverse conditions, and if you fail just once you might never get another job in that business.

      I don't think that most of us would expect the video game business to be well, all fun and games, we expect that like most jobs there will be aspects to it that supremely suck ass.

      People who want to work in that business have a pretty good idea of what to expect. Though I'll concede that reality can be even more harsh than what they expect.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    2. Re:I'm not a game programmer by C10H14N2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have to realize one thing: game development companies are TINY, with a comparatively large portion made up by very tight pre-existing relationships. The distributors may be faceless Borgs, but the development houses are the garage bands of software. ID and Valve barely have fifty people combined. Bioware has less than one hundred--and they write a boatload of games. Ubisoft has 1280 employees -- in nine countries. That's an average of 142 each, which is pretty damned small. Even Electronic Arts only has 2300 employees in "creative" positions. You start adding all this up and you quickly realize there are more Major League Baseball players than there are people working on the creative side of game design.

      Translation: you had better be fscking INCREDIBLE and even then, be prepared to be an intern and move across the country or to a different country (say, Canada) to do so...and you'd better be able to do more than just edit levels. You'd better be a god.

      I'd take the Vanagon, find the best programmers you can and start your own studio. The odds are worse than PowerBall, but they're more in your favor than competing with a million people for one of ten jobs.

    3. Re:I'm not a game programmer by James+Lewis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're right on the money, but the good news is that you can make games as a hobby, and if you ARE god, you'll be able to turn it into a living. You don't have to work your way up through the ranks if you don't want to. You can have fun making your own games, and if they take off you'll either be able to form your own company or get work at one. Personally, I think the ideal situation is to form a mod team with some guys you like, and churn out mods in your free time for popular games. If stuff like Valve's Steam really takes off, it may even be that you can remain independent mod makers and make money off of it by selling your games online only.

    4. Re:I'm not a game programmer by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, except people don't realize that being a game programmer is pretty much the same as being a word processor programmer, the only difference is in the functions that you call. You probably won't even get to play the game you're working on until it's almost done, and by then you'll be so sick of working 80 hour weeks on it you'll probably never want to see it again.

      You get a lot of idealistic kids coming out of high school/college thinking they want to write video games because they like to play them, which is about as stupid a conclusion as you can draw. Nevermind most game production houses are really small, hire maybe one or two people a year, and when they do you've gotta be a guru. Christ, you practically need a master's degree in mathematics to mess with the 3d engines these days. Besides, in 5 years, they'll probably replace all the programmers with people in India.

    5. Re:I'm not a game programmer by gte910h · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have a close friend who's a programmer at EA. There are harsh deadlines, but less so than I've seen in many of my consultant friends. They DO get to "play" the game they're working on as it goes along, but I think you'd find it less than fun at that stage. How do you think you test it? They also get sneak peeks at cool upcoming games, and have awesome perks, like huge libraries of games to check out from work, etc. And the functions aren't that different either. Last I heard they were looking to standardize on something like flash or the like for GUI's.

      I too am a career programmer, but I work in research in academia. My life is the complete opposite of his workwise. I actually have much more personal time to play games or whatever I want to do in my free time. I can take off when I like (within reason), while he has to schedule every second off up till the next milestone.

      If you'd really like to show your stuff as a level designer, games a la quake and a la civilization have MUCH larger audiences than ones like Neverwinter nights. If you're really serious, you'll build some of each however. I think over a year/year and a half of building you could get 5 or 6 hits in various realms, and have a further 10 or so failures that show something good in them.

      --
      Want to see every step I took to start my company? http://www.rowdylabs.com/blogs/pitchtothegods
  2. Valve Hammer Editor by plams · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's the Half-Life editor. It's been tried and tested. Lots of tutorials to be found on the net. Easy to use and learn.

    However, being an excellent architect is never easy:)

    1. Re:Valve Hammer Editor by pocketfullofshells · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd have to agree.

      To enlighten you further, Valve Hammer Editor a.k.a. Worldcraft is very versatile, and like plams said its backed up a thousand times over, with places like the Valve-ERC Collective. It's a very excellent Valve mapping/editing resource.

      The latest version of the Valve Hammer Editor is 3.4 and can be found here.

  3. Before you start by Cipster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just play a ton of mods (Half-Life and the forementioned NWN for example). You end up with a pretty good idea what works and what does not.

    Whatever you decide to design start with pen and paper and a good idea first. Pointless mods that merely throw a bunch of monsters at you feel pointless.
    Check out some classic mods for Half Life like They Hunger for HL.

  4. Few reccomendations by Qubed · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'd try bouncing a couple of levels off the fan community first. As far as games to develop go, I'd develop primarily for FPSs, and maybe a few strategy/adventure games. I don't play many of the latter, so here are the FPSs: Q3 and anything that uses it's engine (i.e. has Radiant editing tools) -- very easy to use, allows for lots of creativity. (Other Q3 engine games: JK2, RC Wolfenstein, Call of Duty?) The unreal games also have a nice bundled set of editing tools that would aid your portfolio. Best of luck!

  5. as to what they found the easiest by va3atc · · Score: 5, Informative

    as to what they found the easiest

    The Cube Engine allows you to edit maps right in the game on the fly. There is also a cooperative edit mode, try and beat that :)

    --
    Candle burns its brightest in the dark
    1. Re:as to what they found the easiest by irokitt · · Score: 4, Informative

      The upcoming (soon?) DOOM3 engine has in-game editors incorporated into the engine. Once it hits, I would expect that it would have all the success of the other Id engines, like the Quake engines.

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  6. Easy? Intuitve? Powerful? by lexcyber · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Remeber if you work as a level designer in a company making a game. I can not expect to work with tools that are full fledged.

    The tools you are going to work with will constantly evolve, your tools availble will be added and removed as the game moves on.

    To create an impressive portfolio that will pop eyes where you apply. Design very good levels for a wide area of games. And last but not least, they have to. Absolutly HAVE to be well balansed. Especially with a multi-player game. I have seen some very pretty levels done for counter-strike but that was very poor balanced. So they where never played.

    Another big thing when you design a level. Make sure you make your own textures. If you have solid texturework you will have a far better shot at the job.

    -L

    --
    - To understand recursion, we must first understand recursion -
  7. I'm curious... by jdbarillari · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you've never designed a level before, how did you hit on the idea of designing them for a living?

    (I don't mean this as a flame; I'm just curious.)

    1. Re:I'm curious... by sniggly · · Score: 5, Insightful
      More than that I think it is rather naieve to think he stands a chance getting a job if he hasn't started making doom 1 wad files back in the early 90s and is not a well known mapper by now. Some extremely competent map designers have tried but failed to get a job because they didn't quite cut it. It's pretty much like getting a job in the movie industry helping with movie sets, you need a serious track record and good connections to get inside.

      Everything is attainable but you've got to be passionate about attaining it - Utawoutau the poster seems not very passionate about mapping if he failed to produce any maps, mods, models, etc, so far.

      Map designing takes a lot of skill, passion, and interest in a huge variety of subjects such as architecture, interior decorating, gaming experience, multiplayer, psychology... the works.

      --
      Of those to whom much is given, much is required.
  8. Learn more than one thing by plams · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It would be a bit risky to focus on suddenly being "an level artist with an outstanding portfolio" wouldn't it? But it would certaintly look good on your CV for any position in the game industry if you show that you've been "around". Communication is usually a problem in software engineering projects, so being able to understand what each other is doing is definitely an advantage.

    I recommend that you'd also take your time to learn a little about:

    Programming

    Scripting

    Photoshopping (Sorry! I said GIMP'ing, of course)

    3d modelling

    Sound editing

  9. how to procede by geekoid · · Score: 5, Funny

    1: steal decent levels from web sites
    2: say there your own
    3: get job
    4: Stab manager in back, get his job
    5: golf with the producers backers
    6: back stab producer
    7: get backer for YOU game
    8: SHip it when it's half done, retire.

    I figure about 8 month worth of work.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  10. You should read one of Chris Crawford's books by 1iar_parad0x · · Score: 5, Informative

    First, read anything and everything by Chris Crawford. I hate most new media theorists, but he's an exception. He's a physicist by education and programmer/game designer by experience. I'd especially take a look at "Chris Crawford on Game Design".

    You should also take a look at some of his old game design articles in Next Gen magazine. He had one article on level design in Doom that was quite unique.

    Secondly, from a tricks/tools perspective, gamedev.net or xgames3d.com are your best bet.

    --
    What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
  11. Or conversely.... by Chordonblue · · Score: 5, Funny

    1: Get a job at some faceless corporation with a name like 'Enron'.
    2: Design kick-ass games after hours.
    3: Get your work stolen by your sneaky co-worker.
    4: Beat the Master Control Program for domination of your codez.
    5: Become the newest exec (you even get your own helicopter!)

    "Greetings Programs!"

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
  12. Chris Crawford - useful links by joelparker · · Score: 4, Informative
    Definitely see Chris Crawford's website
    and "The Art of Computer Game Design" here
    and the related Game Design Wiki

    Good luck! -Joel

  13. Level Editors... by nekoes · · Score: 5, Informative

    Where to start...

    Well, I guess the easiest, most obvious level editing suite out there (in the realm of FPS games anyway) is Valve's Hammer. It's quite scary just how easy it is to make levels with that util. Upon starting it I was able to figure out pretty much all of the basic features just by looking at the buttons. That's quite an accomplishment, if you ask me. The whole way the editor is layed out, and the process you use to design a level in the editor are both painless and relatively easy. If you're looking for a place to start, and games like TFC, CS, and NS are your forte, might as well start here. I think the only problems you may run into are in the setup options, and true to its oldschool roots, getting down and compiling a map, then tweaking that, can get pretty gritty.

    The only other editor I've logged any sort of time on was the unrealed that shipped with UT2003. I missed the whole UT generation, so I can't vouch for the older unrealed, I'd assume it's basically the same. However, after coming from Hammer, learning unrealed is a real pain. The interface is kind of counter-intuitive and the whole logic behind building levels is completely the opposite. It's quite weird. Once you get into the unreal mindset though, creating a level isn't hard at all, it's just that initial hill that you need to climb over. Well that, and unrealed is insanely buggy. I cannot tell you how many times I've lost work due to unexpected quits or fatal errors that seem to make no sense. I guess as it is with every program, save early and save often. This is the editor I eventually found most technically impressive. After learning something new about the editor, or pouring after technical docs and taking a stab at it myself, I am still wowed when I get a new effect (be it graphical or gameplay) working.

    Now note I have not logged any significant hours with these editors (read: I have not produced any well known or well thought of maps) as to know the individual quirks and the nuances of each editor. However I can offer the complete newbie's look into it, which I guess is better than nothing. If anything, I say that the Half-Life community has more tutorials and help geared toward my audience than the unreal community, as finding good and easily digestible information is hard. Epic seems to be trying to remedy this with their opening of Unreal Uni, or whatever it is they are doing, which offers video tutorials and forums for developers. (A good thing, but I'm fearing the mod potential is going to waste in these days counting closer to HL2, with potential developers looking for the next big thing rather than weighing the assets of what's out there- which is hard to do for something not quite released)

    As for most things tech, I guess slogging through it and exploring is probably the best way to learn either of these.

    I guess on the RTS front, nothing is easier than Blizzard's warcraft 3 map editor. The thing is incredibly simple to use, though not quite as intuitive to the newbie's eye as hammer. I was able to get up and building levels (after finding I was unable to figure the tools out myself I went to the documentation) in about 10 minutes after reading the rather friendly documentation that comes with the toolset. I guess the thing is that the tools take 10 seconds to learn, but to master them and build a balanced and fun map, will probably take you a life time. (not to mention a keen understanding of the game.) The tools are fun to use, and going from the editor to a game to a multiplayer match you're testing with friends is quite easy and gratifying.

    Neverwinter Nights, I found, was rather easy. Scripting seemed to get kind of nightmarish quick, but I quickly lost interest with building with those grossly simplified tools. I guess the real challenge was figuring out a way to make and import your own tilesets, but in the beginning when I had just spent 50 and tax on the game, it was a disappointment for it to have such poor mod support right off the bat.

    I have heard good th

    --
    Hey, it's my OPINION that dogs have eight legs and make a sound like a car horn every time they take a piss.
  14. Pencil and Paper by Kelmenson · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Having worked in the game industry for over 10 years (but just having left this past year), your question and the answers you are getting are a clear indicator of the decline in the quality of games in recent years.

    People are answering your question as if the goal is to design the best looking levels, or the easiest way to build them, or other construction related questions. But those are not the right questions you should be asking.

    Just as an architect needs to find out what the goal of their building is, a level designer needs to have a goal for a level. An amazing house that doesn't have the rooms a buyer wants is still a failure. An amazing level that doesn't advance a game, or isn't any fun, is also a failure.

    Before you start building a level, write it out. Put together a story of how the player will move through the level. Sketch storyboards of interesting challenges that will occur. Start with a rough layout of the rooms you plan to link, and describe whats going to be happening to the player as they move through those areas. Figure out which areas are dull, and either liven them up or cut them out. And once the flow of the level makes sense and seems enjoyable, a level designer passes the documents off to an artist, whose job is to make it look good.

    Far too often, the process gets reversed. The levels are designed from an artistic perspective first, without first determining why the levels are there, or where the player will be. Time gets spent fleshing out regions that the player runs through once, hunting for something to do, and never looks at. Those areas may get thrown away in playtesting, or just kept in and bore the players. Not good.

    So basically, if you want to be a level designer, design levels. Don't be a CAD designer; that is the artist's job. As a former game developer, I would have appreciated it. As a current game player, I would appreciate it perhaps even more.

  15. well.... by Marsala · · Score: 5, Informative

    Speaking as a player, I'd encourage you to seek out any competitive communities built around the game(s) you're interested in designing for. While Neverwinter Nights is a cool enough game, I'd also reccomend you check out getting some experience with the "Quake-related" FPS games.

    One of the tools that's used to create maps for several game is Radiant (supported on both Linux and Windows) and supports a bunch of games. Mappers familiar with Quake3 were able to transfer that knowledge to RtCW when it came out, and in turn that was transferrable to ET. Plugins for other games (Half Life, Soldier of Fortune, and some others I'm blanking on) is also available.

    Couple that with experience working with 3DSmax (or gmax if you're on a budget) creating models, and you should be good to go.

    If you're also looking for ideas on what to make maps of, I'd suggest trolling around and seeing if you can find a competitive community for the games you're interested in designing for. Stuff like Half-Life and its mods (most notably Counter Strike), Quake3/RtCW/ET, and the MOHAA/CoD stuff are going to be hot ticket items right now. Organizations like The Team Warfare League or the Cyber Athlete League might be worth a look to get an idea of how people are using the games and what kind of maps and what features they'd benefit from.

    Looking to the future, everyone's pointing at stuff like Doom3 and Half-Life2 (obviously). But it might be worth taking a look at games like Far Cry and Painkiller as possible sleeper hits coming up on the horizon.

    Good luck in your efforts. :)

  16. Re: UED... 50% match by EvilXenu · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you are serious about learning how to use UnrealED, take a look at what 3dbuzz.com has to offer: free video training modules (VTMs) on how to use the thing. Some of the modules are pretty hefty -- weighing in at 100+MB on some lessons. These can be found here.

    On a somewhat related note, if you pre-order the special edition of UT2K4 you'll get the VTMs on a DVD.