Three Blind Phreaks

Post writes "'When they dial, they use the middle finger.' - Wired's story about three sightless brothers who 'have devoted their lives to proving they can out-think, out-program, and out-hack anyone with vision.'"

Comments

Re:Leet..

[kmcg83]

I think that's their advantage. Less distraction.

Nothing Special

[pocketfullofshells]

from the article, "They called secretaries and said, 'I need to get in to do a repair. You need to give me the number and password.' Sometimes they succeeded, or else they'd get only the number and try to break the password by using proprietary programs."

sounds like normal boring phreakers to me.

But they make news because they are blind.

DAMNIT why could'nt I have been born blind so I could make the news!

Re:Nothing Special

[aTMsA]

sounds like normal boring phreakers to me.

But they make news because they are blind.

Well if you read the article carefully, you'll see this:

At one point during my visit with the Badirs, I pull out my cell phone and make a call. Before it even connects, Shadde, who is sitting across the room, recites all 12 digits perfectly.

Ramy smiles at the parlor trick. "It used to be disgusting to be blind," he says. "Today, you scare people. You possess skills that those with sight cannot possibly understand."

This is something normal people usually can't do, but i've known blind people that can do that kind of "tricks"(they can also tell you if you're standing or sitting while talking on the phone, for example). Certainly being blind gives them some good social-engineering-enabling abilities, and they can also play the poor-blind-victim that'll probably soften the most paranoid secretary;

Of course, if instead of touch-tone passwords these secretaries had been typing their passwords in a unix terminal, they would be screwed, and no amount of over-the-shoulder peeking would have helped them! ;)

Re:Nothing Special

[decipher_saint]

sounds like normal boring phreakers to me.
But they make news because they are blind.

That's for damn sure, I'm a visually impaired programmer what doesen't commit crimes, where's my news story?

Articles like these really piss me off. It makes it sound amazing that not only can blind people use computers but they can use them well enough to commit crime!

Yeesh next thing'll be "Blindsploitation" movies...
"Take that sighty!"

Re:Nothing Special

[pocketfullofshells]

Just like I posted a second ago, yes I read the article.

The only advantage they have is being blind. And this somehow makes them better than the dedicated geek with vision who spent his time memorizing frequencies and tones. If you ask me, being blind only makes it easier for them to do these tricks, which once again, shows me that they are nothing special..

Are they heroes?

[ObviousGuy]

It used to be cool to show off with these 'hacks' like phreaking and other service-theft tricks, but these days it seems that they would do better service to the name 'hacker' if they worked on things that made our world easier to live in, for both sightless and sighted folks.

I'm not about to tell them what they should or shouldn't be doing, but sometimes you really have to wonder how the hacker community can take having borderline criminals like these three brothers calling themselves part of hackerdom.

They are crackers, despite what they call themselves.

Re:Are they heroes?

[pocketfullofshells]

They are heroes only because they overcame a handicap to break the law.

(oops forgot to add "in the eyes of the journalist" after heroes)

Trinity and Neo die in the new Matrix.

[James A. E. Joyce]

I'm more interested in the things they do, as opposed to the fact that they're blind. People shouldn't be defined in terms of their disability, but in what they do. (And judging by what these guys do, they seem like mere kiddies.)

Yeah, they're blind, so what

[W32.Klez.A]

They're still thieves. The article doesn't really display any sense of apology from the brothers, and it sounds like they're just giving bullshit lines to make it sound like they're doing the old 'I switched to the good side' thing. I have ten bucks that says they'll be back to the same old thefts within a month.

All of them?

[dan14807]

"I taught myself to program in all the languages: C, C++, Basic, Java, HTML, PHP, CGI..."

So that's it, huh? Makes me wonder about the validity of their claim to be "hackers".

Re:All of them?

[dan14807]

"I taught myself to program in all the languages: C, C++, Basic, Java, HTML, PHP, CGI..."

And for those of you who don't actually know this: CGI is a protocol, not a language. Ugh. See parent. These kids are not hackers.

Re:All of them?

[UserGoogol]

Yeah, because a GUI is so useful when you're blind.

Re:All of them?

[HeghmoH]

Don't forget that you're getting these quotes through at least two layers of indirection, namely the translator and the journalist. Despite the inverted commas, this is not necessarily anything resembling a direct quote.

Wired Slashdot?

[Sinus0idal]

lol what has happened to Slashdot!

"well, Wired said..."

If we want Wired, we can read Wired! :) Want some originality...

Re:Three Blind Mice

[Directrix1]

This article just shows that even a blind person can be as big a dipsh!t, as anyone with sight. If they were ripping innocent people off without technology, there would be outrage. But the fact they are using "social engineering" and hacking techniques make them idols? Those who think this is cool, are more blind than the brothers.

MOD PARENT DOWN - PUNISH IN METAMOD

[Mod Me God Too]

OK, I hate this sort of post normally but this time it is justified.

Normal phreakers cannot hear and instantly memorise touch tones, normal phreakers don't get away with large-scale crime taking down a p0rn empire, normal phreakers don't get away with it.

As mentioned in replies earlier, these guys were elite hackers, and as far as I know elite hackers _do_ get a mention on /. and wired. How about you hone your skills as well as them, then start wishing to be blind.

You quoted They called secretaries and said, 'I need to get in to do a repair. You need to give me the number and password.' Sometimes they succeeded, or else they'd get only the number and try to break the password by using proprietary programs, did you read the following sentence?

Re:Why are genetically defective people breeding?

[univgeek]

And while eye-sight was required for survival centuries ago, intelligence is required to survive now. Evolution doesn't need these brothers to be weeded out. Survival of the fittest means that if these brothers survive because of intelligence, then their lives are not worthless for the next generation of humans.

So go back to your cave, troll...

My my...

[CODiNE]

As a deaf guy I just have to say... living your life based on revenge and sticking it to others is a sad way of living. All you do is repeat the unfair sort of situations that made you so PO'ed and produce an army of other angry PO'ed people... ooohhh... negative feedback loop! Cutting people off on the freeway and tailgating doesn't solve your problems. It's funny how people in left hand turn lanes get upset at people running red lights keeping them from making their turn... so they in "revenge" run their red light and cause different people to miss THEIR turn, who then in return... blaaahhh... just live by "The Golden Rule" and everybody is a little bit happier.

Double standard....

[NeoSkandranon]

If they had their sight, they would be criminals.

Since they're blind they are....?

Still criminals. Though the wired story would have you believe otherwise.

A thief is a thief is

[Talsin]

a thief. Regardless of how "skilled" they are who cares? All they did was cheat, steal and lie. I really dont get the point of this article, why do we reward criminals?

Re:Why are genetically defective people breeding?

[evilviper]

the parents should have stopped breeding. Now there are three more genetically defective people who can keep those defective genes into the gene pool.

Wow... I thought we'd heard the end of this with the death of Hitler's Nazis, and Margaret Sanger.

I would say the best thing about our society, is that physical abilities do not mean life or death. I would assume that you are a skinny geeky guy (possibly not, but likely since you are posting here) and in the world of hunting and gathering, you would be dead, because you are not the strongest, and fastest.

If you think that all geeks should die off, then you are a moron who can just discard the contributions that less-physically-fit people have made.

The best example that comes to mind is Stephen Hawking... He should be dead by most measures, but he is alive, and contributing to the betterment of all society.

What do you know? Are you certain that blind people have nothing to contribute to society? People though the same thing about Blacks, Hispanics, etc., yet they've been proven wrong time and time again.

Before "civilization", nature would weed out genetic defects like that using starvation, wolves, lions, bears, etc. Now you have people perpetuating defective genetic lines just because they can.

First off, you are assuming that there was a time before civilization. Animals like wolves have a natural pack instinct, and humans show the same traits. It would seem that humans would have always sought-out civilization...

Well, I suppose crap like this is why I marked you as a FOE in the first place...

blind script kiddies

[krappie]

Sorry, but I wasnt really impressed by these people. I've always heard that blind people make the best phone phreakers. Thats probably true. When you deal with an entire system based on sound frequencies I can see blind people having an advantage.

But whats the point of the article? They're just 3 blind script kiddies that think they can hack the planet. I see people with vision every day committing credit card fraud. Why are these guys bragging about it on Wired? THEY EVEN GOT CAUGHT. GENIUSES!!

And what is this?!

But Ramy was too ambitious to stop there. "I taught myself to program in all the languages: C, C++, Basic, Java, HTML, PHP, CGI.

CGI isnt a language! And thats a direct quote from him. What kind of idiot says "I can program in CGI."

Sorry, but these are just three script kiddies causing the usual problems that script kiddies cause. Am I supposed to be impressed?

Social Engineering

[LordoftheFrings]

I like stories like this that don't portray people who play with phone systems and computers in an intrusive way as reclusive introverts. It clearly shows that these brothers are experts at social engineering. They manipulated people with such expertise and skill that the people did anything the brothers wanted. That can be the most dangerous aspect of security.

Idle hands...

[SJS]

There is no indication in the article that the brothers actually have had jobs or other responsibilities. It's no wonder they they got into this sort of thing...

And, of course, there are other amusing bits...

But Ramy was too ambitious to stop there. "I taught myself to program in all the languages: C, C++, Basic, Java, HTML, PHP, CGI."

That's a pretty... limited view of what "all the (programming) languages" are.

I'll grant that they're clever; that, and too much time on their hands made 'em dangerous and irresponsible.

After encountering their first computer, in 1989, at Tel Aviv's Center for the Blind, Ramy and Muzher became enchanted with the IBM clones.

No wonder they turned out to be criminals!

Re:Why are genetically defective people breeding?

[iminplaya]

"They are surviving because society is providing for their needs."

Yeah? And who's providing for your needs like roads, electricity, food, etc.? Satan? Can you build all these services yourself? It appears to me that we all need "society" to provide for our needs.

Re:Three Blind Mice

[telbij]

You can still appreciate someone's talents even if you despise their morals. It's only about technology because it's on Slashdot, but I would be equally impressed by a brilliant criminal who didn't use technology. Problem is they usually exist only in Hollywood movies.

So theft isn't theft?

[Infonaut]

Nothing like selective morality.

So if you use phone sex hotlines you deserve to have your money stolen? If you use a dating service do you deserve the same thing? If you subscribe to a right-wing or left-wing newspaper do you deserve to be ripped off by someone?

As for ripping off a government-sponsored radio station, who do you think is paying for it? Where does the government's money come from? It's not takin money from mom and pop directly, but it's not as though their not hurting the general public. People like to rail against government inefficiency and complain of mismanaged tax dollars. It's odd to me that someone would not be outraged by criminals directly stealing those tax dollars.

These guys aren't exactly Robin Hoods.

Re:So theft isn't theft?

[King_TJ]

I didn't say "Slashdot readers should accept what these guys did as morally right." I'm just pointing out that they did shows a considerable amount of selective scamming - which I have to think was intentional.

The bottom line is, whatever you choose to do (or not do), say (or not say), you have to be comfortable with it in your own mind. Some folks just don't seem to have any conscience at all, so they go about doing whatever pleases them - with no guilt. (Murder someone just for fun? Why not!) Most of us, though, have our own personal definition of what's morally right and wrong - and we try to act within those boundaries.

I think these guys fall into the latter category. Stealing from government is a prime example of something you can look at from two, opposite ways. If you've worked honest jobs and watched a large part of your income get involuntarily sucked away by the govt. - you might consider stealing from them to be equivalent to getting back what you earned in the first place. (This viewpoint depends to large extent on how strongly you believe government is wasting/misusing the money you're being forced to contribute to them.)

Mittens and earplugs...

[qtp]

The biggest only thing that is leading some to consider these jerks "heros" is thier disability. Reading the article, I find little to respect about thier "skilz" as it seems that most of thier tech-dependant exploits were performed using software not written by themselves. Knowing what script to run does not necessarily imply an understanding of how it works.

The sad thing is that it seems that those with little or no skill garner acolades if they also demonstrate an accompanying lack of restraint or outright dishonesty. While contientious tech explorers and practitioners go unnoticed by the media, loud mouthed script kiddies and clueless "experts" get to tout thier wares and mythical skills to the most respected security companies.

As to whether thier sentancing was apropriate, it seems a little light to me. In keeping with Mitnik's extended probation from computing equipment, these jerks should be sentanced to mittens and earplugs for the next five years.

Re:Three Blind Mice

[namespan]

Dude, Osama bin Laden is so damn cool. Did you see how on Sept. 11 he orchestrated a complex attack on the US, involving a collection of covert actions intricately interwoven to form a subtle web

This is actually quite true. The terrorist actions were bold and devastatingly effective, the result of some clever thinking combined with a willingness to die.

Cool in the same way a nuclear bomb is cool. Horrifying, something you want to totally reject, even as it is impressive.

Re:Three Blind Mice

[sethx9]

While I agreee that what these three brothers did was criminal, to equate the actions of those who attacked the WTC and the Pentagon with a confidence scam (regardless of the amount of money in question) is wildly, grossly, disturbingly inappropriate.