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MATRIX - A Dossier for Every Person in Utah
jxs2151 writes: "According to the Deseret Morning News former Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt signed Utah's 2.4 million residents up for a pilot program that gathers dossiers on every single man, woman and child and didn't bother to tell anyone. According to the article MATRIX -- Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange '...cross-references government records from both public and private databases, putting together a dossier on individuals for use by law enforcement.' The state's homeland security specialist dismisses concerns: '...any data gleaned for Utah's participation in MATRIX is information already available to law enforcement.'
The Utah legislature is trying to figure out how to get the state out of the program but the question is how was the Governor able to enroll the -whole state- without anyone knowing?"
Pretty please?
Where's my Tin foil???
in the name of 'protecting freedom'
terrorism wins
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Jeez...could they have picked a worse name to have sent the geeks into overdrive than Matrix?
C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
So, this has really kinda raised a stink here in Utah, and despite the states Homeland Security specialist stating that all of the information is already available to law enforcement, one issue is that all of this information is not currently available in one place and that many simply object to government accumulating so much personal information. The other issue is that the problem with databases is that once they are created, they really cannot be destroyed. The information in them tends to propagate into other projects or products and is also often used for generation of revenues by selling information to certain corporations.
For instance, from the article: Searchable databases allow law enforcement agents to probe for people using Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses, property records, motor vehicle information and credit history. The information is collected by states and forwarded to a database in Florida, where a private company, Seisint Inc., builds and manages the database.
The fact that credit history is included and is documented along with these other aspects of identity and is run and managed by a private company is disturbing leading me to wonder what connections Gov. Leavitt might have with this company.
Finally, as noted in the article our current Gov., Olene Walker (she was Gov. Leavitt's assistant governor before he headed off to become a Bush appointee to head the Environmental Protection Agency), apparently knew absolutely nothing about the project. As governor, Leavitt should have been representing the people of Utah, but what is it that he has done here?
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
The information is collected by states and forwarded to a database in Florida, where a private company, Seisint Inc., builds and manages the database.
So what's to prevent this company from selling the information to the highest bidder? Glad I don't live in Utah...
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I've seen casual acronyms before, but this is getting silly: Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange as MATRIX? You mean MATIE? As in a little girl? Certainly not as cool as MATRIX...
is somebody going to attach a turbine to George Orwell?
Just think of all the nuclear power stations that could be decommissioned as a result
"Smoking helps you lose weight - one lung at a time" -- A. E. Neumann
This just hit the news here in GA as well.
Here, it is the reverse situation. The governor (Sonny Perdue) has now ordered the state twice to *stop* participating in the Matrix program. The first order was ignored. I wonder if the second will go un-heeded as well?
Governor Imposes Stay on MATRIX
Governor ends Utah's roles in database
Matrix FOIA Request to Utah State Police
The MATRIX
Privacy Watch: Matrix
Matrix Updates
Matrix Raises a Stir
-kgj
"the question is how was the Governor able to enroll the -whole state- without anyone knowing?"
Easy, because the data was being collected in the first place. The whole system of legal protection of privacy (i.e. laws that say you're not allowed to use this data for this purpose) breaks down when the trusted custodians of data shits all over the public's trust. The only way to ensure privacy is to not collect the data in the first place. Not that that's ever going to happen.
Just in case anyone wants to actually read what it's about before going off the deep end, they have a site:
http://www.iir.com/matrix/
[quote]The MATRIX project is implementing factual data analysis from existing data sources to integrate disparate data from many types of Web-enabled storage systems to identify, develop, and analyze terrorist activity and other crimes for investigative leads. This capability will facilitate integration and exchange of information within the participating states, including criminal history, driver license data, vehicle registration records, and incarceration/corrections records including digitized photographs, with significant amounts of public data record entries. Provision has been made for the inclusion of data sources from additional states, should expansion be authorized. The use of factual data analysis from existing data sources will save countless investigative hours and significantly improve the opportunity for successful conclusion of investigations.
Data Security Information submitted by a state may only be disseminated in accordance with restrictions and conditions placed on it by the submitting state, pursuant to the submitting state's laws and regulations. Information will be made available only to law enforcement agencies, and on a need-to-know and right-to-know basis. Data access permissions will be conditioned on the privileges of the user making the inquiry.[/quote]
Because it won't do much good. We have alot of different groups of people here in this country, with alot of different beliefs as to how far "security" can go. We all have our own different ideas as to what is right and what is wrong and speaking as an american, most of us are too lazy or ignorant to care.
"what, dossier? well..does it make my tv go away?"
besides, most large scale protests end up with the police in riot gear forcing protesters into doing something they can get arrested for
your sins into me, oh my beautiful one.
Is it anything like SCMODS?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
What I'm most concerned about right now is WHICH ARE THE OTHER TWELVE STATES?
Here is what I expect to happen if this actually goes forward...
Lots of data will be collected about people's daily habits. That data somehow ends up in the hands of the Mormon church. They then start punishing members for things like buying coffee in stores, renting porn, not tithing a full 10%, and going to R rated movies. Then it gets leaked where all of this data came from.
Mormons are taught to support the Government. It will take quite a bit to get them to really fight against such a draconian intrusion into their lives. They tend to gravitate to authoritarianism as it is.
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
Despite what you all think, the mormon religion does not condone plural marriage. If you take part in a plural marriage, you are excommunicated. That comment merely shows your ignorance and is not really funny at all.
"Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the life-long attempt to acquire it." -Albert Einstein
the the unequal distribution of wealth couppled with a growing fear of EVERYTHING lead to the 3rd and 4th world wars. taking place only 4 hours apart, it was determined that the usa struck first against russia and the middle east. someone over there aparently said that the USA's mother looked funny.
WW4 decided upon moments after the 3rd ended saw every country with balistic missle capabilities repeatadly launching on the us to once and forever end the threat of a rogue nation.
--END ACT 3 PLEASE TURN OVER TAPE --
You gotta be joking! In britain we are gonna soon have id cards, trackers in cars, and if you crae to have a look at legislation pushed though by our paranoid premiere blair, Ill think you find the british govt doesnt trust us, like us or give 2 fucks about us. Stands a chance the utah model will be sold to our Tone. Of course itll be at a cut price.. monogamy means less fields ;) Tony B
The information is collected by states and forwarded to a database in Florida, where a private company, Seisint Inc., builds and manages the database.
Now that we know that Seisint is compiling a database of all relevant information on *everyone* living in Utah, how long do we think it'll be before one of the many hackers/crackers (possibly sponsored by organized crime, then again equally likely to be doing it just for the kudos) breaks through their corporate security (cough smoke-and-mirrors, if they're like most other companies) and steals the identity of an entire state at once?
Of course " Utah was one of 13 states that hopped on board the pilot program last June -- funded with $12 million in federal grants. But since then, several states have pulled out of the project, citing privacy and financial concerns."
So we're not even talking about just one single state !
C'mon people - fame and fortune, kudos from the slashdot crowd, and your very own entry in the Guinness Book of Records.
I can just see it now Worlds Largest Simultaneous Identity Theft
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
The sad thing is that no conspiracy is required, this is inevitable and unstoppable because even if the state isnt going to do it ebusiness will.
However now would be a good time to decide how much data can be collected and kept for the entire life of an individual and who can do that collection.
My gut feeling is that each single piece of information needs to be fought over and an ongoing battle between the individual and other parties should begin.
Consider the fact that it would be a trivial if expensive excercise to record every single keystroke you ever type, every purchase you make, every conversation and movement you ever make on camera, every person you know, every email sent, every website visited, every late bill, every parking fine, every day off sick. All at the mercy of datamining software. The ironic thing is that the realy bad people who law enforcement want to catch probably wont be on that database because they will live on the margins of society and use stolen identities.
A record which knows more about you than you do yourself and its all online down at your local police headquarters. Not that the police are necessarily bad guys, trouble is that AdvertisingDotCom will have the same thing as the police have on their database and all they care about is owning your money. I thought slavery had been outlawed but it looks like we are about to bring it back in the name of economic efficiency.
Time to wake up and get on the civil liberty bandwagon.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
OK people, if you're going to whine about someone else being wrong, then you should at least try to be accurate yourself.
Despite what you all think, the mormon religion does not condone plural marriage any longer.
That is , originally it was encouraged. Don't believe me, checkout The LDS/Mormon webpages on the subject
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
And, as a side note, isn't it most interesting how the Prophet at the time that the people Utah of desired Statehood received a message from God that polygamy was now against His will, and that particular epiphany came shortly after the United States Congress told the Mormons that if they continued polygamy, they would be denied statehood? I know, silly me, but I found it interesting, anyway.
GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
Actually, they came over (at first) to become rich. The first settlers were the second, third, fourth, and so on, sons of the wealthy. But since in England all inheritance went to the first son (and he then decided without contest who gets what) they could either join the church or the army after their father died. But, in New England, they could own land and become wealthy from selling whatever they found to the companies that financed their voyage. And in England, the companies that sent them over could become rich from selling that on the European market. The second wave of settlers (the Puritans) were the ones who came over because they could not practice in England anymore. Well, more to the point, they could not reform the English church to the way they wished. That is debatable however. But the fact remains that if they were successful in taking over the church they would not have tolerated other religions (as shown in how they ran their colonies where they did control the church).
So, to sum up, The U.S. was founded because of greed. Whether or not greed is necessarily bad is another debatable issue. I don't care either way, but the fact remains that this country was *not* founded on freedom, it was driven by the want of profit. Take that any way you will, I just prefer that people know the truth instead of some kindergarten fable.
this will solve all of life's problems...
In the UK such an idea would be blocked in the house of Lords, or perhaps Her Majesty would decline to sign the act of parliament for it...
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Since this program is not a secret (as it is on /.), and the people implementing the program are widely believed to be the government, and everything the government does is seen to be legal (even if it isn't), then there is no conspiracy.
It doesn't make it any less disturbing.
It's worse than you think. Seisint, the company behind Matrix, was founded by a guy who was implicated in a Bahamian drug smuggling ring back in the 80's.
To the bourgeois ruling class, it's all just a game now. They're just trying to see how ridiculous they can make things. I'm sure they're suprised themselves.
"Okay, we'll even name this one the Matrix."
"There's no way that'll work man! They had the movie and everything!"
"We already had Operation: Iraqi Freedom and the Patriot Act go through, you'll see."
(1 year later...)
"Holy shit! They didn't even protest once! Amazing."
I swear to god guys, there will be a security project called "Big Brother" or something similarly bizarre in the near future. The guys in charge have just grown bored of having endless money and material goods, and they've moved to something more exciting for them: seeing how tightly they can squeeze the litte folk.
Most of the Democratic candidates have spoken out vocally against extending the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act. To contrast, George W. Bush recently advocated not only extending, but expanding the damn thing-- in his State of the Union speech, no less. (The applause you heard when he said "the PATRIOT act is due to expire soon" was not coming from the pro-Bush side of the room.)
If you believe there is no significant difference between the candidates on this issue, you're just plain nuts. I'm sorry your favorite candidate isn't in the race anymore, but if you keep equivocating and misrepresenting the situation, you're only going to be rewarded with PATRIOT Acts II, III, IV and V.
Dean never supported the patriot act, he is VEHEMENTLY opposed to it. Neither did some of the other candidates. Yes unfortunately kerry is the kind of BS artist that populates washington D.C. and looks like he's going to win, but don't group them all together.
Liberty.
I have to say that I am absolutely outraged at what Gov. Leavitt has apparently done. I wasn't particularly happy with him over his stand on allowing the storage of nuclear waste in our state (something that apparently was a qualification for head of the Environmental Protection Agency).
IANAL, so I wonder - would something like this be grounds for some sort of class action lawsuit?
If it is, count me in.
It amazes me the things we in the US allow our government to do to us in the name of security:
If we the government keeps getting away with passing legislation like this, the terrorists win, and the government *becomes* the terrorists.
Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.
Just wait till it slips out that the whole country has this "Matrix Database" thing going on. Oops, shouldnt'a said that.... Dubya's gonna kill me xDDD
Hello!?! That's some anti-mormon website. You want real info on the church goto www.lds.org.
Sorry my bullshit sensor overloaded.
According to the Wikipedia :
So both of you are, in a sense, right.
It's a big deal because it's a centralized database that enjoys a legal status more powerful than any individual in which it represents. Governemtental bodies, corperations, and others that have authority to make decisions that affect a human life can and will base their decisions upon the information found in centralised dossiers. Your arguments against any inaccuracies or biased representations will carry far less weight, and you will be dealt with by a system where your past history is too much of a liability to ignore regardless of your present intent.
In short: It spits upon the grave of every man who has given their life to protect the freedom and liberty in these United States.
Other than that... No big deal... None at all.
"Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure"
semi-quote from Aliens :-)
The public will look at the evidence and proclaim the suspect guilty. The jury will look at the evidence and declare the suspect guilty. Then they'll congradulate the FBI on a job well done. All the while, the real culprit sits back and laughs since he stole the supplies from someone who bought them with cash. He didn't show as a suspect at all.
People look at the fouth amendment and assume it's there to keep the authorities from annoying you. They think it's okay for the authorities to run a search as long as the person being searched doesn't know about it. The thing is, the more people the authorities investigate, the more likely they are to turn up false positives. That may work wonders in picking out a scapegoat, but it won't help find the real criminal if the real criminal took even minimal precautions to stay off the list. The fourth amendment is supposed to do more than protect people from annoying searches. It is there to make sure the authorities do their job right.
He did a little too much LDS at Berkeley in the 60's.
That's Bigboo TAY! TAY!
Utah built a thing called MATRIX
Dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dummmbbbb
They promise that they won't abuse it
Dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dummmbbbb
I can just hear my dad saying, when I vented my teenage gripes about our government, "If you don't like it here why don't you go live in Russia?"
I never wanted to live in Russia. I just wanted America to be the place it's supposed to be. I want American freedom to mean more than the freedom to continue shopping while our trusted leaders take care of everything.
"we did need to figure out who was responsible for 9/11"
As I said the last time the PATRIOT act came up I dont think it really has a lot to do with 9/11 or preventing another one. 9/11 was more a convenient excuse for the right wing to reimplement domestic spying. Lets spell it, out the Patriot act is designed to reimplement domestic spying as it was prior to the 1970's.
The right wing has been really ticked since the early '70's when constraints were put on FBI and CIA domestic spying activities. We've pretty much forgotten why those constraints were put in place.
In a nutshell domestic spying seems like a great idea if it stays in the box and just focuses on dangerous foreign elements, terrotists, or maybe even dangerous domestic elements. The problem is once the ball gets rolling it never does stay in the box. Its just a matter of time before the people who control it, the people in power, redirect it from just the truly dangerous elements to spying on everyone they consider dangerous, which quickly becomes all their political opponents including people who aren't dangerous, but who are just exercising first amendment rights to disagree by doing things like opposing misguided wars like Vietnam or Iraq or advocating controversial things like equal rights and and end to segregation as was the case in the 60's.
Two classic examples:
J. Edgar Hoover used the FBI to spy on everybody. He acquired dirt on basicly everyone including all politicians. As a result he became largely untouchable. No one would dare suggest replacing him, lest he pull out the file he had on them. Hoover probably had some serious skeletons in his own closet but no one would dare expose them. Hoover controlled the FBI for 48 years and didn't get ousted until God did it when he died. Its no coincidence major constraints were put on the FBI's abuse of domestic spying about the time Hoover died. It was the first time it was possible. 48 years is an unnaturally long and unhealthy time for one person to have unchallenged control of a nations domestic law enforcement, he had it thanks to domestic spying. Hoover in particular abused domestic spying in the case of Martin Luther King. King was not a violent person, not a terrorist. His main danger was exercising his first amendment right to speak out against segregation and the Vietnam war. Hoover made King's life a living hell by abusing domestic spying, for example by discovering extramarital affairs and using them as blackmail, and I wouldn't be suprised if he helped encourage his assasination because he was percieved as a threat by the established powers.
Richard Nixon became extraordinarily paranoid and was really obsessed with his reelection. As a result he abused both the FBI and the CIA to help insure he retained power. Let's remember that Watergate was Nixon abusing his domestic spying powers to spy on his political opposition in an effort to insure they didn't get elected. When a president uses domestic spying to hold power you are headed towards something that isn't democracy. We could very well be heading down the same road today.
Here is a thought experiment. If Jesus were alive today and he preached basicly the same message he did 2000 years ago, and just updated it for the times how would people like Bush and Ashcroft, supposedly devout Christians, recieve him.
If no one listened to him he would just be branded a left wing nut, pacifist, anti war, soft on terrorism, unpatriotic and probably a Democrat. Its a certainty he would have opposed the war on Iraq and all use of force by the U.S. Bush and Ashcroft would not appreciate that viewpoint. He might well be branded a communist since I doubt Jesus would have had anything good to say about investment bankers, stock brokers and the rampant greed that dominates America.
If a lot of people heard Jesus's message and started to follow him, perhaps by engaging in passive resistance and peaceful protest the full weight of the FBI and the patriot act would be
@de_machina
As mentioned in my rejected story sub from last week, several other states are already participating in MATRIX.
For more information, you can look at the MATRIX homepage, listen to an NPR program, read some newspaper columns, a findlaw article, and a politechbot writup.
The list of participating states can be found here.
Read, L
Let's assume for the moment that the local cops and DA are very good people, honest, forthright and all that.
Do they understand the difference between correlation and causation?
Do they know that statistically billion to one odds means the thing has happened to 7 people?
Somewhere out there, there's a guy who has un-alibied absences on his record that exactly match with a string of unsolved robberies, and he ISN"T the robber.
Who is John Cabal?
Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the spirit brother of Lucifer. The Bible teaches Lucifer is a fallen angel, and that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Which part of that is contradictory?
Mormons believe they are saved through works; entire books of the Bible (Galatians, Romans) teach against that principle.
Where does it teach against that principle? If I'm not mistaken, we are saved through Faith AND Works. There's even a scripture in the bible that talks about that.
Mormons believe there are many gods. The Bible is quite clear that is wrong.
We only worship one God. The bible is quite clear that we only worship one God. And please explain in further detail what you mean by "believe there are many gods" so I know you know what you're talking about; because it's quite clear that you do not.
Definition of a Christian - One who believes in Christ
Mormons believe in Christ; therefore they are Christians. They also believe in the Bible, so all your arguments are not only innaccurate in the first place, they don't support your point to any extent.
Yes! Mod the grandparent down, so nobody gets information that is not sanctioned by the Church. We need to figure out how to shut up those infidels.
What size are your boots?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
It's worth a listen.
Dead right dude, looks like they pulled the plug already
MATRIX -- Gov. Olene Walker announced Friday she has appointed an oversight committee to evaluate security, accessibility and privacy issues of the Multi-state Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange.
On Thursday, Walker asked the state Department of Public Safety and other agencies to stop sharing information with MATRIX until the oversight committee can evaluate the programand make recommendations about Utah's participation.
The committee is made up of Gary Doxey, the governor's chief of staff; Val Oveson, state chief information officer; Kirk Torgensen, chief deputy to the attorney general; Senate Majority Leader Mike Waddoups, R-Taylorsville; Senate Assistant Minority Whip Gene Davis, D-Salt Lake City; Rep John Dougall, R-Highland; and a resident who hasn't been named.
Dougall, an electrical engineer, said he was asked to be on the committee because of his technology background. He was asked to sit on the committee less than 30 minutes before it was announced.
State agencies began participating in the federal pilot program, providing information to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which is acting as a repository, in December 2003. MATRIX enables law enforcement officials to access information that is already available more quickly and efficiently.
The information provided includes criminal history record information, motor vehicle title and registration information, driver's license records, and Department of Corrections' offender records and images.
MATRIX is approved and funded by the Department of Homeland Security. Utah hasn't put any money into the program, Walker said.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
MATRIX is the product of the drug-running covert actors who brought us the Iran-Contra connection. Seisint is the data warehouse in Florida for these Matrix apps, started by Hank Asher. He also founded DataBase Technologies, which purged the 2000 Presidential election rolls of 57,000 voters, 95% in error, the majority of them Democrats. Prior to that, Asher flew drugs off Florida through the Bahamas for Iran-Contra. His boss was John Poindexter, director of the "doomed" federal TIA, the mother of all Matrices. A French webpage has the Seisint/DBT (translated to English) connection: Hank Asher. For extra points, Diebold's eVoting division has been run by another convicted Iran-Contra cocaine dealer.
Now the Matrix, after being rejected by Georgia for its unwarranted invasions of privacy, is making the rounds of the rest of the states which owe Bush Jr favors. Idaho governor Leavitt succeeds Governor Kempthorne, just named the previous Idaho governor, to head the EPA, as it abandons the penalty financing of SuperFund. Check your own state government for the favors it owes Bush Corp., before they sell you to the Bush cronies. Drug dealers, vote fixers, Big Brothers: these are the people we have given the power of the US government. Take a stand now, before you have nothing left to defend.
--
make install -not war
The $4.50 "Comprehensive Report" includes "Address Summary, Others using SSN, Date/Locations where SSN Issued, Census Data, Bankruptcy Indicator, Property Indicator and Corporate Affiliations Indicator, Bankruptcy, UCC Filings, Corporate Affiliations, Driver's Licenses, Vehicle Registrations, Property, Merchant Vessels, FAA Pilots, FAA Aircraft, Professional Licenses, Florida Accidents, Voter Registration, Hunting/Fishing Permits, Concealed Weapons Permits, Associates, Relatives (3 Degrees), Neighbors, Criminal Convictions and Sexual Offenders." More advanced searches include arrest data, gun licenses, property ownership, Internet domain name ownership, and a "Patriot Act Search".
Order now, and get the facts on anyone.
Much of this information has been available for some time, but never before has it beeen assembled into one convenient package available to anyone at a low price. See product reviews, including "You can't hide from Accurint" and "No Place to Hide".
Now with XML support, a batch interface for bulk users, and 24 hour tech support!
If you have a problem with that, tough.
...because we already have in our official capacity snooped all that information seperately". So the fact that the USA already was a piecemeal police state, is the justification for making it a unified and offical one?
There is no longer any law, just legislation. There is no longer any law-enforcement - just enforcement. It is no longer possible to be a policeman, and also a good man. The law does not recognise rights; so, rights do not recognise the law. I hereby declare anarchy!
- All you need is a built in GPS transmitter to prove that you didnt do the robberies !! Only best make sure you dont wear a tin foil hat in case it absorbs the transmissions !!
Thats why we are innocent until proven guilty and convictions are tested against reasonable doubt.
Except that President Bush seems hell bent on ignoring these principals in the case of Iraq and Guantanamo Bay. It appears that your fear of a national law enforcement database is well founded with your present leaders policys. Self defence is supposed to defend you, not destroy your freedom.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
Does anyone see any similarities between the War On Drugs, the War on Terrorism, and the War on Communism?
We're going to spend hundreds of millions or billions of dollars, piss off the world as a whole, lose our civil rights, and many of us will lose our inalienable rights.
In the end nothing will have been accomplished but a short period of country-wide unity and a temporary popularity surge for a national leader who really does not deserve it.
Your post was an excellent one and should be modde d way up.
orwell in 1984:
http://www.online-literature.com/view.php/1984/1 7? term=war
"In past ages, a war, almost by definition, was something that sooner or later came to an end, usually in unmistakable victory or defeat. In the past, also, war was one of the main instruments by which human societies were kept in touch with physical reality. All rulers in all ages have tried to impose a false view of the world upon their followers, but they could not afford to encourage any illusion that tended to impair military efficiency. So long as defeat meant the loss of independence, or some other result generally held to be undesirable, the precautions against defeat had to be serious. Physical facts could not be ignored. In philosophy, or religion, or ethics, or politics, two and two might make five, but when one was designing a gun or an aeroplane they had to make four. Inefficient nations were always conquered sooner or later, and the struggle for efficiency was inimical to illusions. Moreover, to be efficient it was necessary to be able to learn from the past, which meant having a fairly accurate idea of what had happened in the past. Newspapers and history books were, of course, always coloured and biased, but falsification of the kind that is practised today would have been impossible. War was a sure safeguard of sanity, and so far as the ruling classes were concerned it was probably the most important of all safeguards. While wars could be won or lost, no ruling class could be completely irresponsible.
But when war becomes literally continuous, it also ceases to be dangerous. When war is continuous there is no such thing as military necessity. Technical progress can cease and the most palpable facts can be denied or disregarded. As we have seen, researches that could be called scientific are still carried out for the purposes of war, but they are essentially a kind of daydreaming, and their failure to show results is not important. Efficiency, even military efficiency, is no longer needed. Nothing is efficient in Oceania except the Thought Police. Since each of the three super-states is unconquerable, each is in effect a separate universe within which almost any perversion of thought can be safely practised. Reality only exerts its pressure through the needs of everyday life -- the need to eat and drink, to get shelter and clothing, to avoid swallowing poison or stepping out of top-storey windows, and the like. Between life and death, and between physical pleasure and physical pain, there is still a distinction, but that is all. Cut off from contact with the outer world, and with the past, the citizen of Oceania is like a man in interstellar space, who has no way of knowing which direction is up and which is down. The rulers of such a state are absolute, as the Pharaohs or the Caesars could not be. They are obliged to prevent their followers from starving to death in numbers large enough to be inconvenient, and they are obliged to remain at the same low level of military technique as their rivals; but once that minimum is achieved, they can twist reality into whatever shape they choose.
The war, therefore, if we judge it by the standards of previous wars, is merely an imposture. It is like the battles between certain ruminant animals whose horns are set at such an angle that they are incapable of hurting one another. But though it is unreal it is not meaningless. It eats up the surplus of consumable goods, and it helps to preserve the special mental atmosphere that a hierarchical society needs. War, it will be seen, is now a purely internal affair. In the past, the ruling groups of all countries, although they might recognize their common interest and therefore limit the destructiveness of war, did fight against one another, and the victor always plundered the vanquished. In our own day they are not fighting against one another at all. The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of t
OK, so there's a big database. As many have already pointed out, databases already exist. Trying to stamp out databases of personal information has about as much hope as outlawing pot and sharing music. Waste of time.
We need to shift the focus of the debate from whether or not the database exists to how it is used. I think we need a new Bill of Rights to protect us from inaccurate and misused information in ANY database.
People should be able to sue the hell out of a database provider who distributes inaccurate information, and the responsiblility for accuracy should rest on the provider, not on the poor slob being tracked.
In fact, maybe there OUGHT to be a government sponsored database, because then there would be a specific place to go check for inaccuracies, instead of trying to guess who's got what on you.
And there should be severe restrictions on the uses that can be made of the information. I don't care if the government knows I marched against the war, but I damn well don't expect to get my taxes audited as a result. It's way easier to enforce restrictions on the inappropriate use of information than it is on the simple collection of it.
And anyone using data about me from the database should be liable if they can't prove they're using it on me, not someone else. What if you could sue Macy's for opening a credit account in your name using your credit data if it wasn't really you?
Government doesn't have to be the enemy. This is a place where the power of government could be used to protect us. Of course, you'd have to have a government that cared.
--Hi. I'm in Portland and it's raining. This appears to be a permanent condition.
Mormons claim to be Christians, but their theology, doctrines, practices, and beliefs are not.
My imaginary sky-ghost can beat your imaginary sky-ghost because you deluded heathen don't know that eating shellfish or not mutilating newborn boys makes the sky-ghost really pissy!
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
Leave it to Utah.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
9/11 was more a convenient excuse for the right wing to reimplement domestic spying.
In all fairness, it's not all of the right wing who support the fascist ideology of the neo-conservatives.
There are plenty of old-school Republicans out there who really do support things like small government, low taxes, and individual rights.
I just hope they realize that even though Emperor Dubyah calls himself a Republican instead of a Fascist, they don't need to vote for him this year.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
America: Wake the fuck up! (Score:-1, Troll)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 31, @07:23PM (#8146965)
Please... Europe has never been "free", but until recently we here in the old country could aspire to going to america. Now, america is turning into prewar germany, and we've got no where to go. Stop it! before it's too late!
This AC got modded Troll. But I wanted to repost it.
I'll tell a little story. I read, not too long ago, a story written by a daughter of a German migrant. This women's parents left germany during/before the true rise of Hitler.
Now, for those who may have only thought of Nazis as Evil Ones(TM) in a cartoon manner, stop and consider their rise to power. There *was* wide-spread support for the Nazis. They won an election to take power -- Germans SUPPORTED the Nazis. The nation was in a state of euphoria, literally in love with the notion of their own greatness...
This women's parents left because they sensed something basic and unsettling was happening. They new what Germany was becoming and where it could lead.
Near the end of her article she spoke about the USA. Its hubris, its sense of infallibility and selfrighteousness. She wondered if she would have the strength and wisdom to recognize when the USA had reached this tipping point, she wondered if it was now... or would be soon.
As a foriegn observer (Canadian) I just want to tell you that this Matrix stuff is not a surprise. The USA (its government) is heading off on a very strange tangent. Just consider for a moment that the world watched -- with not a little public objection -- the USA invade and occupy two foriegn nations.... whatever you might think justified this act, please consider: The USA is actively invading other nations unprovoked*.
I want people to see what this AC is saying, because I agree. If you think you can sit back and reelect a Republicrat (again, as you have continuously for 100 years) and things will get better you're very wrong.
Let me lay it out, something is very wrong with the USA; its fat, angry, powerfull and violent. Your leaders think they world belongs to them -- and you citizens are sheep -- and we are all going to suffer immensly if something is not done to re-align the USA.
This Matrix stuff is nothing.
* the WTC crashes were criminal acts, the kind of behaviour that requires police, not armies... unless of course you are the kind of proto-fascist-jingoist-American I am worried about, who refuses to consider this reality....(and the article-author sees her country-men becoming)
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room.
Neo: Right now, we're inside a computer program?
Morpheus: Is it really so hard to believe?
What is the matrix? Control. It was built to keep us under control...
The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. When you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds of the people...
But of course we must honor the best quotes from each of the three movies:
The Matrix:
Context: Morpheus jumps a massive gap between two skyscrapers
Neo: Woah.
Reloaded:
Context: Neo throws a smith out of the battle, where he lands, hard.
Smith: More!
More context: (More smiths charge in)
Revolutions:
Context: Neo runs out of the train station, off to the left, and we see him come back into the train station on the right.
Neo: Shit!
That sums up the three movies, and also the main reactions that this MATRIX thing seems to be inspired by:
Woah!
More!!
Shit!!!
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Gee...
Why is it that anytime a posted article that contains the word Utah or SCO or Novell people automatically assume the Mormons are behind it. Sure, some Mormon folk may be working at these places, but I am sick of people bashing the LDS Church anytime the state of Utah is mentioned or implied in an article.
It's all a big waste of time (like this post, too).
The article is about something serious. A supposedly Republican/Conservative governor signed my entire state up for this MATRIX thing... I am none-too-happy about this one. It seems like all the conservatives have lost any spines they said they had and turned into tax and spend liberals and big government, big-brother types.
I am quite happy that he's left Utah for the EPA. He's always been a shifty character in my IMHO.
Please stick to the topic at hand. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints had nothing to do with the MATRIX. The MATRIX is very intrusive. Mormon-bashing is very stupid and a waste of typing, talking, thinking, etc.
Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow. - SNL Weekend Update
The distinction you make is absolutely useless and irrelevent. Every single traditionally conservative republican will vote for bush. None of them will vote for a democrat, ever, not even if jesus christ was running as a democrat.
So the biggest spending president in recent history will enjoy the full support of so called conservatives. The president who grew the govt most, intruded on the lives of ordinary citizens the most, the president who gave amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, who erected steel tarrifs etc will enjoy the support of conservatiives fully.
Why? Two reasons.
1) Bush will not let gays get married and will appoint anti abortion judges.
2) People who call themselves conservatives are not really conservative, they are just republicans who vote any repubican who runs.
War is necrophilia.
>Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the spirit brother of Lucifer. The Bible teaches Lucifer is a fallen angel, and that Jesus Christ is Lord.
l
http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,791-1,00.htm
>Mormons believe they are saved through works; entire books of the Bible (Galatians, Romans) teach against that principle.
that would be Faith and works. Big difference. And the book do not teach against works, they talk about the importance of faith. Just like they teach about the importance of works. "Faith without works is dead" is a quote that pretty much sums that up.
>Mormons believe there are many gods.
Read the above link for what we actually believe. We have one Father in heaven.
> But now you know that they are NOT Christians;
Do please explain.
http://scriptures.lds.org/a_of_f/1
#1, WE abelieve in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
Yeah, that doesnt' sound Christian at all
>The LDS Church uses words to sound Christian, they even claim to be so, but they are not.
Now that *really* doesn't make sense. We say we aren't, but we can't be. We must all be lying hunh? So when we say we worship our heavenly Father, We believe in the Atonement of Christ, and in the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Do tell, what am I really saying? Are these all magical codewords or something?
"...mormons."
"...the MATRIX!"
"1984!!!!"
All rights reserved. All wrongs reversed.
is that they can only take lives but it's dictators and laws secretly passed that takes freedom.
Sure you could argue that it's a freedom to live but what's the point of living if you're being watched all the time? In the words of a famous Scottish leader in a film: You can take our lives but you will never take our freedom.
Nixon tried to use IRS data against political enemies. More often than not, the Civil Service level IRS employees found ways to stifle his efforts. Things like "Sorry sir, I can't seem to find the file for Abbie Hoffman. Check back in a couple days.
Matrix removes that level of human review.
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
Does anyone else think the irony of a similarity between The Matrix, a society completely entrapped by the governing powers (machines), and the name of this act (MATRIX), which makes that same entrapment all the more possible seem kind of odd to anyone else? Surely the politicians realized that this would draw a very definite parallel in the minds of most people, particularly those that are fans of the film.
Maybe they did it to discredit the voices of those that protest the act? "Oh, they're just geeks with a Matrix obsession, and are overreacting because they're all anarchists."
Otherwise, why else name it MATRIX? You'd think they'd want to avoid anhy sort of association with complete thought control. Right?
Or is this simply a sign of how incredibly subdued the average citizen is already?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
People who call themselves conservatives are not really conservative, they are just republicans who vote any repubican who runs.
My point is that there is no Republican candidate for 2004, just a Fascist candidate (and before anyone mods me a troll, do some research on the historical goals and ideals of Fascism).
Pretending that the Emperor is a Republican is like the Democrats running David Duke and claiming that he will represent the interests they are traditionally associated with, just because he's got their logo attached to his campaign.
It may be wishful thinking on my part, but I'm hoping enough Republicans feel like I did in 2000 - when the Democrats ran the husband of Tipper Gore (a huge opponent of free speech) and Lieberman (essentially a crypto-Fascist) - to make a difference.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
"The Utah legislature is trying to figure out how to get the state out of the program but the question is how was the Governor able to enroll the -whole state- without anyone knowing?"
Well d'uh. Never heard of an opt-out list?
I guess the points I'm making are:
-
There was a really cool upside to this system. It really could have been a benefit to the doctors and patients in providing them better care. It could, and also would, have been used to deny care to cuts costs.
-
Corporations generally do not care about data security until the lack of said security jeapordizes their bottom line or places them at legal risk.
-
If the system ever DID make it into production, the information contained within could have easily been made available to the governement and/or highest bidder -- as is the case with the company running the MATRIX system.
The way I see it is that the benefits don't outway the risks. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.the pledge by congress to keep Census data private and out of the hands of law enforcement officals was any good.
Then ask youself if The PATRIOT ACT, a law hastily passed by congress and signed by the president BEFORE THE ACT WAS EMBROSSED, will treat all Americans any better than FDR and the FBI treated Japanese American.
Then think about the RICO law, designed to prevent Mafia gangsters from using their ill-gotten gain to fight prosecution. When it was passed congress promised it would only be used against the Mafia. Now, several decades later, it is used over 10,000 times a year against ordinary citizens. The most common use of RICO today is by local police departments using jail-house snitches as a pretext to steal private property and fence it (sell is what rightful owners do, fence is what thieves do) in order to supplement their budgets and fund purchase of items too costly for local budgets. RICO declares property 'guilty' so even if the owners later prove their innocence or prove a case of mistaken identity, the police can and usually do keep the property.
When the cops become robbers who can YOU go to for protection?
When the DOJ sides with the Robber Barrons and the Courts become their hand puppets where can YOU seek judical relief?
When Congress sells its soul to the highest bidder, repeals the Bill of Rights, sells off trades and patents, votes itself a retirement package equal to its salary and with 100% free health care, and considers the office an inheritable birthright, who do YOU vote for?
Plainly, WE deserve the corruption WE tolerate.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
..Under Color of Authority".
It's good for a ten-year stretch in Leavenworth. Now you just need a prosecutor in Utah with the guts to file the suit in Federal court.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
You want to get the truth on SCO you go to the source, which is the court system. Unfortunately, where religion is involved there are no objective third parties. Posting a link to a misleading ant-mormon site is not going to win any arguments.
If you think the court system is an "objective third party," you have more faith in it than I do. The court system is designed so that people with differing opinions on an issue can present their arguments, and a jury of opinionated citizens and an opinionated judge decide on it. The idea is not that this exercise infallibly arrives at "objective truth," but that some sort of consensus can be arrived at from among the various subjective interpretations.
I see no reason why discussions of religion should be any different. If you only hear the official story told by members and leaders of the religion itself, you won't hear anything they don't want you to hear. Unless you listen to people critical of the religion (including many former members), you'll never be able to make an informed decision.
I am Sartre of the Borg. Existence is futile.
There is no "Mormon relgion". Their religion is Christianity, and their sect/denomination is "Mormon" or LDS. Mormons are Christians, despite what some other Christians might say, as are Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, all Protestant demoninations, the various Orthodox groups, Satanists, and a lot of the early Druidic groups (though I wouldn't say the ADF is), and probably a lot of other small groups that I'm missing. If you believe in the god Jehovah, you're a Judeo/Christian. If you believe that Jesus was the "son of God", in any form, you're a Christian.
The biggest problem with people is that they suck at math.
Sharks kill more people than terrorists do. Cars kill tens of times more people than terrorists do. Smoking kills hundreds of times more people than terrorists do. Cancer and heart desease kill thousands of times more people than terrorists do. But THEY do not show those dead people on TV, and so YOU believe that those deaths do not happen.
Please, check out this anti-Bush ad to see exactly what I am talking about.
Free your mind. Learn the math. Fight the Matrix.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Even though these crooks attack liberty again and again, they will find free people always ready to defend. And even though you reply with incoherent gibberish, I'll slap you back down with simple logic, lest someone reading be influenced by the chaotic slime in which you dwell.
I'm going to clearly reiterate what I have presented, for the benefit of those who might have been distracted by your insane rants. Hank Asher is an active bad guy, with a long history of crime. His associates ran Iran-Contra (in which he flew cocaine through the Bahamas into the US), then the seemingly abortive TIA (an obvious criminal invasion of privacy), now its stepchild MATRIX (a program his company invented and sells), which is actually being applied by members of his criminal circle (like the governor of Utah secretly enrolling all Utahans). Along the way, Asher has proven his threat to America, with his corporate products rigging the Bush theft of the 2000 Florida election, and the Diebold eVote machines, which threaten the 2004 election, too. These facts are published where everyone can find them. Some states have managed to escape implementing MATRIX, but other states, like Utah, have been sold out by Bush cronies. Anyone who denies them better be on Asher's organization's payroll, or they're selling themselves up the river with their denial without even making off like a bandit.
Now, you are just a fool with a big mouth. My links to Hank Asher's shameful and scary history of crime and complicity are to publications, like magazines, publishing public records, like criminal convictions, public hearings, and public corporate filings. MATRIX is a database of personal information, with a cross-reference never allowed by the people in it, or the governments that collected it. Of course we can outlaw government invasions of privacy. And prosecute the perpetrators. "Go and read some detective story"? When you venture beyond your keyboard some day, you might find that police are subject to many laws in evidence gathering, which they mostly follow, and which are mostly enforced, which protect us from the police state which the MATRIX promotes. You can give up your privacy, but leave mine alone.
You don't even know how to use the term "litmus test", let alone apply one, or even an invalid "reductio ad absurdum" like you attempted with your bizarre "muslim child porn trader". You don't even think that trading child porn hurts children, you subhuman retard. Not only am I not an authoritarian, there's nothing like that in any of my posts. You are very confused, and I request you stop projecting your scrambled view on my posts. Brainwashing? Your nonsense must stop immediately, stop spewing this disconnected blabber in responses to my posts. If you can't think, don't project that on me - just shut up. Keep your irrelevant fantasy riffs on advanced technologies to people who are impressed by them, and leave the discussions of crucial policies to those of us adults with an actual stake in them. You can diddle yourself with childish fallacies just as easily in a work camp as on Slashdot, so you're not involved here. Learn to think before you talk.
--
make install -not war
Before everyone gets all up in arms about this as a potential invasion of privacy I should point out that Utah's social homogeneity meant that only 4 actual dossiers had to be assembled -- everyone else's dossier was a symbolic link to one of those 4.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I'm glad to see that someone has pointed that out. Take it from someone who lives in Utah and is LDS, the church had nothing to do with this decision.
In fact, to my knowledge, no one has been informed of it or asked if they would like to participate in any way, shape or form. The state of Utah is part of the United States and is therefore a democracy, and its citizens should have the right to give their opinion of whether or not to be a part of the system.
The idea that the church's records were involved here is proposterous. The post says -all- of the state's 2.4 million citizens were enlisted in the program. Mind you that those citizens are NOT 100% memebers of the church. The church's geneology records have nothing to do with any public records kept by the state, nor do they have any affiliation to medical, criminal or any other type of records. They are kept within the church for the purpose of tracing the member's ancestry back and have no bearing on the current population of Utah.
Finally, if people must insist on "mormon bashing" then at least be kind enough to realize that there are no "Mormon"'s... that is a nickname given to us because of people who did not believe we were entitled to the religious freedom the Constitution guarantees us. Besides, Mormon was a man who lived a long time ago... we prefer to be referred to as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.