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It's All About the Ununpentium
spitefulcrow writes "The New York Times is reporting that elements 113 and 115 have been created by a joint team of Russian and American scientists. The temporary names are ununtrium and ununpentium until the experiment has been duplicated and verified in another lab. According to the article, speculation has been made that 'Rather than being round, nuclei in that region and beyond could contain bubbles and have strange doughnut-like shapes'."
mmmmmm....mini-doughnuts..
-B
Mmmmm... Forbidden ununpentium....
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
I'm sure there will be a movie about it. Bruce Willis the cab-driver and his girlfriend who wears nothing but ductape, all over again.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
...but when are we going to have the ununceleron, ununathlon, ununopteron & ununitanium?
-- Power corrupts, but PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
Cuz if it is
Laboratory tests prove the new element can't divide or multiply.
For the tin-foil hat impaired, here is a de-register-it-ized link: The Story
Unless then meant that Macs are the UnPentium. In which case the above still holds. :)
You are not the customer.
That's not a new element, that's an old Intel chip!
Can Intel now sue Mendeleev for trademark violation?
This will be a black mark on the physics community for sure...
Interesting notion ... I happened to stumble across a reference to this "ununpentium" the other day while satisfying my science fiction curiosities on a site called "AboveTopSecret.com". Apparently, some of the Area 51 conspiracy theorists believe it's used in anti-gravity research... or something like that.
t 115.htm l
Document about ununpentium published in 1999:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/elemen
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
I for one salute our science community. Keep up the good work folks.
The science community thanks you for your support. We are currently accepting cash donations.
Virgil:All right, then. For half a million dollars, which of the following is not a subatomic particle? ... well, I was born in Indiana, so that ain't it. And, uh, hmmm ... I'd better call my lifeline.
...
Moe:Oy.
Virgil:
A) Proton
B) Neutron
C) Bonbon, or
D) Electron
Moe:Oh, boy. All right, let's see here, uh
Homer:Well, it all starts when a nulicule comes out of its nest.
Lisa:[taking the phone] The answer is "bonbon!"
Moe:Uh, I'm going to say, "bonbon."
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
The ununpentium: Element number 114.9999659899937582.
Tom Geller
We're looking for a stable heavy element. My question is, "Why?"
I mean, as if things weren't already fucked up enough, we actually have people working to bring into this world something which has never existed. And the consequences? Apparently nobody gives a shit.
Haven't these guys ever played DOOM? Or watched Event Horizon? I'd feel a lot safer if their creativity was tinged with a healthy dose of fear.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
The only thing that girl's bandagewear could have possibly protected against was an NC-17 rating.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
This is like the 3rd time we've heard this, and again the article says "pending verification" from other labs' experiment. I wish they'd hold off on the story until it really is verified independently, and we can all bask in the glory of the new elements... :)
They create heavy elements, which are so unstable that they decay as quickly as they were created.
So I'm wondering - what's the point ? Just getting your name associated with an element in the periodic table ? It seems to me that the money would be better spent in doing stuff with real applications (like producing cheaper anti-matter or getting closer to controlled fusion)
The Raven
Both 114 and 116 exist...
http://www.webelements.com/
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
According to the article, speculation has been made that 'Rather than being round, nuclei in that region and beyond could contain bubbles and have strange doughnut-like shapes'.
Containing bubbles and doughnut-like shapes? I say they should be called Duffium and Homerium.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
(e6003 - chemist and part-time geek).
Element 113 only appeared when the atoms of 115 decayed, and it lasted a lot longer (1.2 seconds- that's a seriously long time in particle physics).
is it the pursuit of the correct combination that is so hard? Or is it just minor alterations to existing elements?
It's a matter of accelerating atoms of one element towards another, in the hope that they collide and fuse. In this case, calcium (20) + americium (95) = ununpentium (115). Then, that decays, losing two protons, and becomes 113.
Does element 114 already exist?
According to this, yes.
I thought the scientists had lost count and just called it umpteenium.
Who is to say that when element 139 or 155 is discovered, it wont be stable and useful?
If there is even the slightest possibility of a new element being useful, the reasearch must go on. What if the next element found turns out to be a safe efficient fuel source? Anything is possible.
-
I will always call element 115 Elerium.
FRA: STFU GTFO
There are many other nuclei that can take the shape of a torous ( doughnut shaped). I accordance witht he uncertianty principle you can only predict a probobility of the shape, jsut like electron orbitals.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
If the article is right about them being strangely shaped, then there could be new physics to be discovered, which could lead to all sorts of useful things. Maybe Uranium can be made strangely shaped, and therefore safer to use in reactors, who knows?
ununpentium is Latin for "115"
Not quite. Essentially, it's a name made up out of the digits that make the number. So, 1 is 'un', two is 'bi', three 'tri', four 'quad' five 'pent', six 'hex', seven 'sept', eight 'oct', and nine I can't remember; it's probably 'non'. Then you stick 'ium' on the end, because all element names have to end in 'ium'. Stick '115' in there, and you get ununpentium. The resemblance to the Intel chip is (almost) pure coincidence.
Actually, it's 1, 1, 5. Not 115.
I misread it as unimportium, which seems to fit for these type of elements.
Today I didn't even have to use my AK; I got to say it was a good day -- Icecube
One of the theories is that our universe is shaped like a doughnut. Universe as Doughnut: New Data, New Debate So, the highest and the deepest reaches are similar in our conception. I recollect that Star trek starts off with "Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. It's continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before." According to Douglas Adam, the answer is 42. I would say the other possible answers are 84, 126, 168, & 210. So, the correct answer is 126.
Q.E.D
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
Other than bragging rights, does the discovery of these newer elements (most of which only exist for a tiny moment in time) serve any real purpose? Could someone explain how this type of research has produced real benefit for science?
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
If the article is right about them being strangely shaped
Doughnut-shaped stuff will be THE SHIT in the coming years. I mean, if you closely follow some of the last releases from the so called science community, you start to notice a pattern:
Scientist: I've found out something new about how the universe works!
People: Oh, well. How great for you.
Scientist: And, uh, it might by doughnut-shaped!
People: Aaaahhhhh! Oooooohhh!
Scientist: I've found a new element!
People: Big deal.
Scientist: And its nucleus might be doughnut-shaped or something!
People: Aaaahhhhh! Oooooohhh!
So, based on that knowledge we can say that Element 115 should be very much like Element 83 (Bismuth), which is the most diamagnetic metal, giving it some very interesting properties.
Also, it should be noted that Element 115 should it possess diamagnetism, and all indications are that it should, it will be a much better diamagnetic material than Bismuth.
I was going to attempt a witty remark about Unintel Inside, but couldn't pull it off...
PepperHacks - Hacking the Pepper Pad
some people believe in 'the island of stability' a google search gives this: http://www.public.asu.edu/~jpbirk/CHM-115_BLB/Chpt 21/sld038.htm (couldn't find a better picture)
http://www.cerncourier.com/main/article/39/7/18
Measurements lead to the idea that there would be a quite stable element with a very high atom mass.
Interesting? I remember reading about Ununpentium years ago right here. How can this be news?
What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
Many people were claiming the exact same thing when mathematicians started to work on the binary system in the 19th century.
Iraq: war to save the U
I wonder if the new chemical elements have coffee cup electron orbitals to go with their doughnut nuclei.
Nope, sorry. Cyanide is 5 times more poisonous than plutonium. Botulism is over a thousand times more deadly.
I don't read AC A human right
One would expect the sciences to continue to advance quickly. After all, science progresses via an open source model.
:-) Neither does proprietary development of software, for the same reasons!
Proprietary development of new physics doesn't advance very rapidly.
If Microsoft "owned" 95% of physics, we'd still be stuck on Newtonian mechanics, because only a small handful of physicists would be allowed to read physics books...and they wouldn't be the really smart physicists either.
I hope that after I die the one word people use to describe me is "resurrected."
There's probably a perfectly simple way to make superheavy elements, too. We just need to get the quarks and the gluons into separate bottles, then just weigh the ingredients and get out the Magimix. All this colliding heavy nuclei at high speed may look good and make for big budgets, but all real progress is made with test tubes and Bunsen burners.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
The big thing is they think they are approaching the island of stability. Elements in this "island" will be stable and could have a ton of potential uses. Discoveries such as this are stepping stones to even greater achievements.
If it takes millions of dollars (in electricity bills) just to make a few atoms of Element 155, I don't think it will be a new energy source.
It's called an Athlon.
1000000 BC: Ug, rock rock *BAM* *BAM* ug!
2004 AD: Ug, nucleon nucleon *BAM* *BAM* ug!
siggy played guitar
quantum bit (225091) sez: "It's still a quite interesting effect though, and shows promise for building propulsion devices with no moving parts. The debate is still on as to whether it requires a dielectric medium (i.e. air), or can work in a vacuum as well."
Brown tested his devices in a vacuum chamber at GE in 1959. The results are not publically available. However, the design he was working on at the time involved using a gas jet as the generator of the electrostatic charge as well as the carrier necessary to create the effect. If so, yes, it is an ionic flow effect, but this does not mean it's restricted to atmospheric use. His patent on this design is US# 3,022,430.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Fluorine (you misspelled it, argh), chlorine, bromine, and iodine, and don't forget astatine all end in 'ine' because they are all halogens.
Argon, xenon, radon, and also neon and krypton all end in 'on' because they are noble gases.
The other oddballs you mention: hydrogen, oxygen, boron, carbon, silicon, nitrogen, were all named back when chemistry was a little less organized than it is today. However, there is still structure in their names: hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen are all gases, and the 'gen' implies that they are involved in the creation of some other substance. In the case of hydrogen, water. In the case of oxygen, acid (although this turned out to be incorrect -- oxygen has nothing to do with acidity).
Boron, carbon, and silicon are all solid, nonmetallic elements.
You'll notice that all the metals end in 'ium', except for those which have been known far before the advent of chemistry (gold, silver, iron, nickel, copper, etc.)
The vast majority of elements end in 'ium' because the vast majority of elements are metallic in nature.
I thought it was supposed to be called:
Unobtainium
or
Reallyexpensium
It doesn't matter if they are completely stable, just stable enough to use, something which breaksdown over a thousand years is still useable.
I'm no physicist, but I think the instability is a direct result of the size of the element. The bigger they get, the more radioactive
More or less, but when you start looking at alot of these big elements you realize we don't know all that much about them, and so maybe one of these will turn out to be stable, as the article mentioned( although in very bad terms) there are certian numbers of particles which appear more stable, although we don't reaaly know right now, we're still smashing things together to see if something neat happens.
"To allow us to continue colliding atomic nuclei at high speeds, please click the PayPal link below."
Intel has their lawyers on standby, waiting to file a trademark infringement suit.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
A heavy metals is any metal with a specific gravity higher than 5. Everybody knows the dangerous ones: Lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, plutonium, and uranium. But there are plenty of them that arn't dangerous.
Tungsten, Ruthenium, Palladium, Platinum, Gold, Rhodium, Osmium and Iridium are all heavy metals, all far less dangerous than lead, and all slightly denser to twice as dense as lead or mercury. Some lighter heavy metals include calcium, copper, iron, and zinc. And you need all of THOSE ones to live. (That's part of why heavy metals are toxic. They replace these elements in essential reactions within the body)
Besides heavy metals not always being toxic, an elements density is also unrelated to its atomic mass. Molybdenum's atomic mass is half that of lead, but they have close specific gravities.
Instead of freting over the effects on children of adding an element that hasn't even been discovered yet to paint, you should probably look into all the mercury that doctors inject into children every year.
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
110 is 270 microseconds.
112 is 240 microseconds.
116 is 47 milliseconds
Can we say they really exist, or should we call it rather a random aglomeration of electrons, protons and neutrons?
Saying they were created is just like saying jumping is flying.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Regarding stability and element size... Technetium (element 43) is radioactive, yet Gold (element 79) is stable. It is even one of the less reactive materials we know...
Heh, except that they didn't exist right after the big bang. From what I've read on the theory, the quickly-expanding universe was still too violent and active to permit the existence of anything more cohesive than hydrogen for a good deal of time. It took a really long time for it to cool off enough for stuff like carbon and oxygen to form, let alone the heavy metals.
Sorry, my karma just ran over your dogma.
What you say about electostatic repulsion is mostly true. The binding energy of the nucleus generally decreases as the number of protons differs more from the number of neutrons, since protons and neutrons are separately subject to the Pauli exclusion principle. That is, a proton and a neutron can share an energy/spin state, whereas two protons can't, forcing one of them up to a higher energy level. That's the primary effect in lighter nuclei, keeping the number of protons and neutrons nearly equal.
As the number of protons becomes larger, and the net charge becomes greater, electrostatic repulsion between the protons becomes more of an effect: it grows with the square of the number of protons. Adding extra neutrons increases the radius of the nucleus, spacing the protons farther apart from each other on average and therefore decreasing the electrostatic repulsion.