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Mandrake Linux Development Process Changes
joestar writes "Just found at MandrakeLinux.com: 'MandrakeSoft today announced a major evolution in the way that future Mandrake Linux distributions will be engineered and released. The purpose of this new development process is to provide the highest level of new features, as well as maximizing the quality of new products.' In short: for each release, there will be a 'Community' release, equivalent to a common Mandrake release, with all latest features. Several months later an 'Official' release - based on the 'Community' - will be available. Both of them will be released publicly and supported. The new process will start with the upcoming Mandrake 10.0."
A Business plan based on the actual Open Source community instead of just their products. Wow. I may weep openly.
Joe
does the 'community' get for beta testing?
how big is the 'community' compared to the buyers of the 'official' release?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It seems a little too coincidental that Mandrake (originally a derivative of RedHat) is now switching to the same model as RedHat. RedHat has their "community" version, Fedora, and an "official" version, the Red Hat Enterprise Server.
libertarianswag.com
This is actually similar to what Mandrake (and others) already do. Isn't this kind of like just releasing another release candidate in the alpha-beta-rc-final flow? Still, I like the idea, because there have been numerous times I've purchased the boxed version, and it has had major problems that immediately needed to be patched. This is just a way to better refine the distro before selling it on the shelves.
Here is the problem I see with this. They are trying to have their "Official" release be less buggy than recent releases. They claim that the problems with the recent releases are because not enough gets ironed out in the betas.
So, they are breaking the final release into "Community" and "Official" branches. Won't the "Community" release eventually become synonomous with "beta." In the end, fewer people will run this community release, and fewer bugs will be found in it. If this happens, problems will undoubtedly creep into the "Official" release and only be found then because more people are running it.
Anyway, it seems to me they are just trying to rename the word "beta," which is not a solution to the problem they are trying to fix.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
I use mandrake because of its superior networking capabil=20 ]} } } }&..}=3Dr}'}"}[NO CARRIER]
They could do something way far out there and call the community release something like a "beta version", and, well... you get the idea
Once again, Mandrake listened to its community of users and developpers, and I think that this is a great move for Mandrake to offer an excellent level of feature and innovation in its new releases, as well as an excellent level of polishment in a second time... And another good news is that both versions will be officially supported!
I think it's a very smart understanding of a community project, and I think Mandrake can be thanked for its continued sense of innovation since 1998...
After the recent and excellent financial from MandrakeSoft, this is all good news!
Apparently you can link to an article but not read it. They are filing under the French equivalent of Chapter 11 - Reorg. During the process the company MUST continue to do business because they still have to pay debtors. Otherwise they would have filed the equivalent of Chapter 7 - liquidation.
I honestly don't think it sounds like that bad an idea. Most home users don't need the testing and would like the features. With easy updating most home users can afford to use a less tested package. And for those who do not like the idea, they can wait for the official release. It gives them a situation akin to Debian's unstable/stable development where the stable branch is solid but aged, and the unstable branch is usable but current.
I do security
1) Both Mandrake Linux Community and Mandrake Linux Official versions will be publicly released and supported.
2) Fedora is in fact the same as the Mandrake Cooker project, which started... 5 years ago.
So I'm afraid that *Mandrake* is innovating with this new scheme. Red Hat is just leaving its users alone...
Translation from Long Marketingspeak: We'll take Cooker and freeze it, and then a couple months later, after we've fixed everything, it will be released. By which time it will be completely outdated, of course...and you won't be able to install (insert KDE or GNOME package here) because it needs version 3.4.2.5.34, not 3.4.2.5.33...you'll have to wait for the NEXT release(which will be unusable of course until -it- is sorted) to get .34....
Boy, they're right, that does sound nicer :-)
Please help metamoderate.
It's interesting to see the different distributions slowly moving towards Debian's release policies. My question for the Fedora and now Mandrake is, why not utilize a very organized and effective "community" that exists right now of free software developers?
Certainly Debian's release schedule could be improved, but Debian is hard to beat in "stuff just working" when it is released.
http://www.talknerdy.org
I think it's a way of getting people to join the Mandrake Community which is not very expensive anyway. I see it as a gentle nudge for those who actively use Mandrake and want immediate access to new releases. It really is for a good cause. I support their decision as I use their Linux distro on many customer sites.
Suncoast Linux - Sarasota, FL
...as far as I can tell, is that they're adding a "gamma testing" phase between the open-beta-test phase of the Cooker process, and the official put-it-in-boxes-and-call-it-done release. Seems like a reasonable move, because it lets users be a little more granular in deciding just how bleeding-edge or risk-averse they want to be with new versions.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
If you read the PR, the Mandrake Community version will be exactly the same as a regular Mandrake Linux release. No more, no less, and their goal is to have the Official version totally polished/bug free... I'm not as pessimistic as you are!
And Mandrake Cooker is 5 years old. Both Fedora & Cooker are experimental and quite buggy Linux distributions. The new Mandrake development scheme is an extention/evolution of this process, but you cannot compare it to Fedora. If you really need to compare it to something else, compare it to Debian stable/unstable branches...
It's a bit more like Debian than RedHat's model I think. The Community release will be functionally complete, but has bugs.. i.e Beta. The Official release will be the Community Release put through a QA process which seems to depend heavily on feedback from Community users. This is pretty much how I've seen Debian handle it's stable/unstable branches, although I'll admit I pay less attention to the Debian dev process than RedHat's.
Personally, I think it's not a bad model for getting higher quality on a shoestring. I don't think Mandrake is out of the deep water yet, so I definately commend their ability to find innovative solutions to providing higher quality in their products.
Fedora seems to be a sort of less public version of this policy. Fedora (Community) users add features and test the Beta quality software. The cream is incorporated into RH products and put through traditional QA testing, which is probably a much larger operation than what Mandrake can muster.
Just my 0.0160900 EUR on the announcement.
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
The purpose of this new development process is to provide the highest level of new features, as well as maximizing the quality of new products.
I'm glad this was clarified. One might have thought the opposite.
Hopefully this will finally make Mandrake suitable for corporate use (since Redhat Enterprise did the same thing against regular Redhat and now Fedora and Debian does a similar but MUCH slower version).
I hope that source based distros start to find a similar solution ie. Gentoo and Gentoo"Stable" (well mirrored and tested) so that they can reach a more mission critical set of users. I use ROCK Linux and they have been trying and failing to bridge this gap. It is important especially if distro makers want big contracts.
First off the source to RHAS is available so feel free to download it and compile it yourself. New distros like Whiteboxlinux have done exactly that. Don't want to compile it or download it from someone who has? Spend your own money on R&D and then make your own distro. You can then give it away for free compiled or do whatever you want with it.
Second, comparing the Mandrake download version with what you get with RHAS is a disingenuous comparison at best. They simply aren't in the same league.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
quote: It just means people will wait out until the Official Release is available. This will not have a significant impact on defect reduction based on higher rates of beta testing.
No, it just means that you're incapable of looking at it from the perspective of anyone who uses Mandrake.
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
This is a very smart move by Mandrake. The Cooker idea worked well, but it was never officially promoted in a big way i.e. you never hit the Mandrake home page and saw "Cooker release 9.2 available for download"
,you must know what you are doing - and you'll just end up using Cooker anyway.
,but not experienced enough to compile their own kernels. And that's a good thing - more exposure to a wider range of platforms and better bug feedback.
Dare I say, but it sounds very like the Debian way of doing things (unstable - testing - stable).
But there's a double-edged sword with doing things this way , in that you'll never have the bleeding edge stuff in a "Community" Mandrake release.
But then, if you want that
imho,the Community thing is more aimed at the general casual Linux user - a bit experienced
As an example on why they had to introduce this (possibly), the much advertised MandrakeMove Live CD doesnt even recognise some PCMCIA wireless cards in laptops. A bad oversight.
A MandrakeMove community edition would have helped in identifying this glaring omission.
Overall, it's a big big thumbs up from myself - well done Mandrake for introducing the Community Edition idea.
How many /. type folx are actually paying for linux distributions these days? I'm not seeking flamebait, but just curious. With distro's like Mandrake, Suse, and Redhat all starting to charge some cash for their production releases, are more people starting to look to alternatives such as Gentoo and Debian? Are others starting to scrap the idea of Linux and move to OSX?
What gets you stoked about Linux? The price tag? Quality? Security? or the fact that it isn't M$.
I'd be willing to pay for a distro like SuSE (or whatever) if I knew that the quality was uber-superb. But even my latest go-round with RedHat 9 has left me fairly unimpressed... Maybe I just love OS X too much?
java guy, tech blog...
Mandrake is responding to its user's wishes. If you don't like the way Mandrake does things, the good news is that there are several other distros to choose from. There's no need to rag on Mandrake for making this change - it's certainly more innovative and user friendly than what Redhat and Suse have done with their sales model. Remember, you can still download free Mandrake iso's and updates are still free too.
"And now, Frank N. Furter, your time has come. Say 'goodbye' to all of this, and 'hello'... to oblivion!"
"2) Fedora is in fact the same as the Mandrake Cooker project, which started... 5 years ago."
Nope sorry Fedora is NOT the same as Cooker. Ever heard of Rawhide? Who is copying who again?
Second off Fedora releases go through a LOT of public testing unlike Rawhide and Mandrake Cooker. Fedora IS designed to be a stable release. Cooker, "Cooker is an experimental distribution, it's not for daily use!". Contrast that with "The goal of the Fedora Project is to work with the Linux community to build a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from free software.". Pretty dam big difference.
The ONLY difference between Fedora and Mandrake's new "community" product is the respective QA of each company and how long the releases are supported.
Good Troll, but *Red Hat* is the one innovating here.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
I did not say anything about money.
I asked what they get.
It doesn't have to be cash. I feel this is an important point, because the drive that makes Linux great, may not be the same as today contributors get older, and the young tech see linux as something thats been 'done'.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
We'll end up with a Mandrake stable, which we've never had (and probably keeps them off some corporate desktops) and I'd imagine the testing Mandrake will be pretty much the same as regular Mandrake has always been (bleeding edge, sometimes buggy and still the best of both worlds).
For those posters complaining about the new 'Official' release being out of date, bleeding edge will *still* be in the community version, nothings changed. I'd guess the 'official' version will focus more on thier new Corporate desktop push and configuration/usability technologies. Makes perfect sense to me and maybe we can see some more serious usability enhancements (DrakConf is great, but not much has changed lately) now that some of their costs will be more focused (if the community comes together, which seems pretty active already in the club).
Quack, quack.
I said it before, and I say it again:
No way I'm going to enter bills for Mandrake Club Services from a French company into my books.
I do not want to explain to the accountant and the taxman that Mandrake Club is not a parisian brothel.
For gods sake, choose a professional, if boring, name.
If you guys would just shutup and install Gentoo you wouldn't be having these stupid distro discussions.
Gentoo is simple, one install per machine for life.
Put this in your daily cron to keep the whole system up to date:
emerge sync
emerge -pvu world
Then every morning you can see what new stuff you may want to update that day.
Look for new software with:
emerge -s whatever
Remove software with:
emerge -pvC whatever
Unless you have and run exactly what chipset and compiler flags your "distro" based binarys are compiled for, your system will never be as fast as it can be.
And thanks RedHat for making me a Gentoo user!
It would be nice if you gathered a bit of knowledge before you exhibited how ignorant you really are.
To begin: it was the sharp new management that came in and began a buying binge that put Mandrake into a dangerous financial position. This group too was pulling Mandrake from their Linux roots. Only after returning to the original lead and those roots did its financial status and product quality improve. Moreover, Mandrake moved from loses into a profit this past quarter.
Since you are using the SCO model to critique: it was SCO that was closed source that bought the more or less open source company and has been hell on wheels since then.
Get a few facts straight before blowing off on your preconcieved ideas. It would make reading the comments here from all sides easier to take.
Can grandma use it? Are programs and drivers simple to install? If not, it's back to the drawing board fellas.
One of the major problems with any Linux distro is the designers (nerds) make it for themselves. XP isn't dominant because of a monopoly, it's dominant because it's so damn easy for even the most inept of users. People could care less about security holes, instability, support-a-coroporate-monolith, if it means they can actually get their computer to do what they want it to.
You can be a Linux elitist all you want, but don't blame Microsoft for the Open Source's failure to create a product for the MAJORITY of desktop users (read: computer illiterates).
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
Good Troll, but *Red Hat* is the one innovating here.
I'll be sure to tell the Debian project that the way they've been doing things for the past 10 years is now an "innovation" from Red Hat.
Jay (=
Sounds like they are copying what everybody else does.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
This isn't so much a change in the way Mandrake operates, only in the way they publish the releases.
....
...
Mandrake already maintains internal trees of some of the releases. For instance, HP has a version of Mandrake 9.1, 9.1.2, which has all the fixes for 9.1 plus some customisations for HP.
So, now we're just seeing this externally
You may also be old enough to remember Mandrake 7.0.1
The French press release is obviously a translation of the original Humricun English. And not a very good one at that.
:-)
Mais a partir de maintenant, une seconde version "solide comme du roc"...
Hell, if I had put a translation like this in an assignement my English teacher would have skinned me alive !
Think of a L'Oreal effect here. What do you think came first, "Because I'm worth it" or "Parce que je le vaux bien" ?
Only difference is, you don't get the sexy Laetitia Casta shots as a bonus - yet
Thomas Miconi
... comparing apt to rpm?
package management is much easier with debian than with an RPM system.
So I'm guessing you use dpkg to install all packages on your Debian box? What, you don't???
Just as I don't use rpm to install all RPM packages on my box, I use urpmi for 99.9% of them, I only use rpm when I want to revert a package to test scripts in an upgrade scenario for the packages I maintain.