Slashdot Mirror
Mandrake Linux Development Process Changes
joestar writes "Just found at MandrakeLinux.com: 'MandrakeSoft today announced a major evolution in the way that future Mandrake Linux distributions will be engineered and released. The purpose of this new development process is to provide the highest level of new features, as well as maximizing the quality of new products.' In short: for each release, there will be a 'Community' release, equivalent to a common Mandrake release, with all latest features. Several months later an 'Official' release - based on the 'Community' - will be available. Both of them will be released publicly and supported. The new process will start with the upcoming Mandrake 10.0."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Worthless nation.
Look at this British nerd !
Hahahahahaha !!!!!
1. Learn to suck dick
2. Learn to complain about Americans
3. Practice sucking dick some more
4. Complain about Arab immigrants
5. Suck even more dick
if the 1.0 build is supposed to be stable then Mandrake 10.0 should be 10x stable?
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
They should use the unit testing development approach with a spice of X-treme programming. Surely then Mandrake will surpass Mac OS X as the leading desktop OS of choice.
Oh yes, fedora... Well, at least they're making the non-community version available, unlike RHAS.
Whats It All About?
In you're opinion do you think its good or d you think it's not so good?
A Business plan based on the actual Open Source community instead of just their products. Wow. I may weep openly.
Joe
does the 'community' get for beta testing?
how big is the 'community' compared to the buyers of the 'official' release?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It seems a little too coincidental that Mandrake (originally a derivative of RedHat) is now switching to the same model as RedHat. RedHat has their "community" version, Fedora, and an "official" version, the Red Hat Enterprise Server.
libertarianswag.com
Look at this British nerd !
Hahahahahaha !!!!!
They are doing what MS has being doing for years(only they are not getting money for the first release); Let the beta users test it.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
This is actually similar to what Mandrake (and others) already do. Isn't this kind of like just releasing another release candidate in the alpha-beta-rc-final flow? Still, I like the idea, because there have been numerous times I've purchased the boxed version, and it has had major problems that immediately needed to be patched. This is just a way to better refine the distro before selling it on the shelves.
Here is the problem I see with this. They are trying to have their "Official" release be less buggy than recent releases. They claim that the problems with the recent releases are because not enough gets ironed out in the betas.
So, they are breaking the final release into "Community" and "Official" branches. Won't the "Community" release eventually become synonomous with "beta." In the end, fewer people will run this community release, and fewer bugs will be found in it. If this happens, problems will undoubtedly creep into the "Official" release and only be found then because more people are running it.
Anyway, it seems to me they are just trying to rename the word "beta," which is not a solution to the problem they are trying to fix.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
What the hell does that have to do with the way Mandrake develops its distribution?
I use mandrake because of its superior networking capabil=20 ]} } } }&..}=3Dr}'}"}[NO CARRIER]
They could do something way far out there and call the community release something like a "beta version", and, well... you get the idea
Once again, Mandrake listened to its community of users and developpers, and I think that this is a great move for Mandrake to offer an excellent level of feature and innovation in its new releases, as well as an excellent level of polishment in a second time... And another good news is that both versions will be officially supported!
I think it's a very smart understanding of a community project, and I think Mandrake can be thanked for its continued sense of innovation since 1998...
After the recent and excellent financial from MandrakeSoft, this is all good news!
Apparently you can link to an article but not read it. They are filing under the French equivalent of Chapter 11 - Reorg. During the process the company MUST continue to do business because they still have to pay debtors. Otherwise they would have filed the equivalent of Chapter 7 - liquidation.
Plain:
http://poetry.rotten.com/weightlifter/
Linked:
http://poetry.rotten.com/weightlifter/
Mandrake Linux Development Process Changes
So the dude who used to copy-paste kernel source code got fired from SCO, eh?
I don't dislike Mandrake but after a year and a half I decided to try Suse 9.0 Pro and I'm glad I did. It works, right out of the box.
Mandrake, otoh, was a constant struggle to get all the features to function properly.
It was OK for someone that never fiddles with their system, I have a friend using MDK 9.1 and it's fine for him but he does very little with it. For heavy duty users, it's a battle.
My money now goes to Suse..
Matter of fact, I'm looking into becoming a Suse VAR..
Most French businesses operate under Chapter 1: Quaking French Pussies.
The Jewpranks threat has been eliminated by the GNAA says Adolf Jackson X, head of GNAA counter insurgency. "Those stupid kikes are on the run" he reports, "and we'll continue operations in all sectors until the world has been rid of this threat to global nigger homosexuality"
In other news, Cowboy Kneel has lodged a Yoda doll up his ass and has beeen unable to remove it.
I honestly don't think it sounds like that bad an idea. Most home users don't need the testing and would like the features. With easy updating most home users can afford to use a less tested package. And for those who do not like the idea, they can wait for the official release. It gives them a situation akin to Debian's unstable/stable development where the stable branch is solid but aged, and the unstable branch is usable but current.
I do security
1) Both Mandrake Linux Community and Mandrake Linux Official versions will be publicly released and supported.
2) Fedora is in fact the same as the Mandrake Cooker project, which started... 5 years ago.
So I'm afraid that *Mandrake* is innovating with this new scheme. Red Hat is just leaving its users alone...
Beta -> Alpha
Community edition -> Beta
Official edition -> Release version
It just means people will wait out until the Official Release is available. This will not have a significant impact on defect reduction based on higher rates of beta testing.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Translation from Long Marketingspeak: We'll take Cooker and freeze it, and then a couple months later, after we've fixed everything, it will be released. By which time it will be completely outdated, of course...and you won't be able to install (insert KDE or GNOME package here) because it needs version 3.4.2.5.34, not 3.4.2.5.33...you'll have to wait for the NEXT release(which will be unusable of course until -it- is sorted) to get .34....
Boy, they're right, that does sound nicer :-)
Please help metamoderate.
Are you some sort of GAY HOMOSEXUAL FAGGOT? Do you spend your days dreaming of HOT, BEEFY COCKS being jammed down your throat? Would you like to see how many Oreos will fit up your ass?
If so, you may be interested in one of the many positions available at VA Software, America's leading employer of GAY HOMOSEXUAL FAGGOT programmers and administrators.
To apply, send penis measurements, approximate rectal volume, and a semen sample to:
ROB MALDA
2001 WOODLARK DR
HOLLAND, MI 49424-7643
USA
It will be a better and smoother process. :-) :-)
I always want to convince my self to buy a Mandrake pack, but I can have it free
Now, I will have a reason
Anyway, I hope, they will find a way to upgrade application for end user more easy that the current shame. I never able to upgrade the mozilla 1.4 of the 9.2 to the new Mozilla 1.6 with scapping a reverence to XZY !
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
This isn't really new, outside of the changing of the "cooker" system all of this was announced earlier. Anyway, outside of faster updates the only major difference between the community version and the regular version of Mandrake appears to just be extra software bundled with the regular version. I don't see the community release as a "beta" exactly as a lot of others on this thread seem to percieve it as.
It's interesting to see the different distributions slowly moving towards Debian's release policies. My question for the Fedora and now Mandrake is, why not utilize a very organized and effective "community" that exists right now of free software developers?
Certainly Debian's release schedule could be improved, but Debian is hard to beat in "stuff just working" when it is released.
http://www.talknerdy.org
Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger! If handled properly, your nigger will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.
INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.
You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model. Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e. chained together. Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately on unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever. Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them. This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud. House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape. At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name. Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data. Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger. If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima. Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke. Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes. These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.
CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGER.
Owing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords. Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular. However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue. Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much. Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway. Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's). This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boat
HOUSING YOUR NIGGER.
Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars. Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through. The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage. So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers. You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground. Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage. Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now. In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape. As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put. Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.
FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.
Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon. You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it. Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water. Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc. Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day. Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives. He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result. You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained. You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton. You really would. Coffee beans? Don't ask. You have no idea.
MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.
Niggers are very, very averse to work
This version inflation gets really on my nerves.
Huge numbers like 10.0 don't mean anything anymore. They want to suggest that the product is mature, well working and has lots of features.
But usually this isn't true. And the irony is that even Mandrake uses this numbering scheme. This makes it basically an oxymoron.
The only mature and stable distribution is usually Debian. But it is so mature that it even stinks.
Over 90 years and counting !
However I am confused as to what I should do next. Please advise!
I think it's a way of getting people to join the Mandrake Community which is not very expensive anyway. I see it as a gentle nudge for those who actively use Mandrake and want immediate access to new releases. It really is for a good cause. I support their decision as I use their Linux distro on many customer sites.
Suncoast Linux - Sarasota, FL
...as far as I can tell, is that they're adding a "gamma testing" phase between the open-beta-test phase of the Cooker process, and the official put-it-in-boxes-and-call-it-done release. Seems like a reasonable move, because it lets users be a little more granular in deciding just how bleeding-edge or risk-averse they want to be with new versions.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
If you read the PR, the Mandrake Community version will be exactly the same as a regular Mandrake Linux release. No more, no less, and their goal is to have the Official version totally polished/bug free... I'm not as pessimistic as you are!
Wow; your build was actually able to detect, configure, and use a Windows software modem for more than 45 seconds? Kudos to you.
"According to the press release issued by MandrakeSoft earlier today, the schedule for Mandrake Linux 9.1 should stay on course. Incidentally, the first beta of that release was made available last week to those interested in previewing the system's new upgrades."
isn't this old news as mandrake has already released 9.2?
Holy shit was that funny!
Isn't mandrake bankrupt?
You're confusing bankruptcy with what's now called open source ??? profit!!!! model. Successfully pioneered by VA Linux, the program involves collecting investors' money in Step 1, publishing open-source products or selling boxes with the word Linux on them as Step 2, filing for bankruptcy as Step 3, screwing over the investors as Step 4, developing some community crap that 22 people around the world download once a year as Step 5.
And Mandrake Cooker is 5 years old. Both Fedora & Cooker are experimental and quite buggy Linux distributions. The new Mandrake development scheme is an extention/evolution of this process, but you cannot compare it to Fedora. If you really need to compare it to something else, compare it to Debian stable/unstable branches...
It's a bit more like Debian than RedHat's model I think. The Community release will be functionally complete, but has bugs.. i.e Beta. The Official release will be the Community Release put through a QA process which seems to depend heavily on feedback from Community users. This is pretty much how I've seen Debian handle it's stable/unstable branches, although I'll admit I pay less attention to the Debian dev process than RedHat's.
Personally, I think it's not a bad model for getting higher quality on a shoestring. I don't think Mandrake is out of the deep water yet, so I definately commend their ability to find innovative solutions to providing higher quality in their products.
Fedora seems to be a sort of less public version of this policy. Fedora (Community) users add features and test the Beta quality software. The cream is incorporated into RH products and put through traditional QA testing, which is probably a much larger operation than what Mandrake can muster.
Just my 0.0160900 EUR on the announcement.
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
As a Mandrake user, I'm glad to see a change like this come along. It sounds similar, though not exactly the same, as the various debian branches. Hopefully good things will come of this, though the overall idea sounds pretty positive.
...well, mandrakelinux.com may have "just found out about it" but slashdot knew way back on January 22nd...
ahh.. my daily anti-american comment... now let's see how the intelligence wastes their mod points...
nice... nice...
The purpose of this new development process is to provide the highest level of new features, as well as maximizing the quality of new products.
I'm glad this was clarified. One might have thought the opposite.
Their previous strategy of just shovelling packages onto the CDs and not even bothering to test if they worked together was going so well.
I mean really, who *doesn't* want to spend a week identifying and ironing out all the bugs, and downloading several hundred megabytes of patches as soon as you install Mandrake Linux?
Surely thats part of the 'Mandrake user experience' that makes it such a wonderful product.
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
Hopefully this will finally make Mandrake suitable for corporate use (since Redhat Enterprise did the same thing against regular Redhat and now Fedora and Debian does a similar but MUCH slower version).
I hope that source based distros start to find a similar solution ie. Gentoo and Gentoo"Stable" (well mirrored and tested) so that they can reach a more mission critical set of users. I use ROCK Linux and they have been trying and failing to bridge this gap. It is important especially if distro makers want big contracts.
Isn't this the same process as mozilla?
Mozilla has nightly versions where the features are added.
Then they have the milestone releases. 1.1, 1.2, 1.3
Then they have the "stable" releases. 1.0 & 1.4
The people who want stable and don't care about all the latest and greatest features (like embeddors) use 1.0 and 1.4. End users on the other hand probably want to be using 1.6.
TOTO A Distributed Annotation System for the World Wide Web TABLE OF CONTENTS INTRODUCTION 3 TEAM MEMBERS 3 PROJECT MANAGEMENT STRUCTURE 3 OVERVIEW, SCOPE AND PURPOSE OF THE SYSTEM 3 MEASURABLE ORGANIZATIONAL VALUE 4 DESCRIPTION 4 REQUIREMENTS 8 FEATURES 9 Distributed Network 9 Reputation System 9 Web User Interface 9 NON-FEATURES 9 Constraints 10 INTERFACES 10 CHANGE LOG AND EXPECTED CHANGES 11 CONTINGENCIES 13 MEASUREMENTS 13 ORIGINAL GANTT CHART 14 CURRENT GANTT CHART (AS OF 01-29-2004) 14 CURRENT QFD MEASUREMENT 14 FUNCTION POINTS 15 VALUE ADJUSTED FUNCTION POINTS 17 Value Adjustment Factor 17 COCOMO 17 PERFORMANCE MEASUREMENTS 18 Toto's Page-Serving 18 Toto's revised Page-Serving: 19 GLOSSARY 20 REFERENCES 20 Introduction Revision: 1.0 Author: Ellen C. Matchey Team Members Phil DePetro Chris Guarino Dan Kopko James Light Doug Malnati Ellen C. Matchey Jae Park Mike Postaski Asif Siddiqui Project Management Structure Overview, Scope and Purpose of the System Phil DePetro The purpose of this project is to create a distributed web-annotation system that will allow users to comment on webpage content and have this content be viewed by other users using the system (comments would be in-lined with the webpage text). A targeted use of this system is to counterbalance rightwing and leftwing bias in the media. Through the use of this system users would be able to make comments on news-websites, such as CNN.com, in an anonymous fashion if they feel the news articles are biased in some way. With this growing popularity of this system and feedback on web content, the reporters would eventually be prompted to respond to the users. On the technical side, this system seeks to create a software package that provides access to a distributed network. This package would act as a proxy server that would modify web pages to show comments presented by other users on the network. It would also allow the user to add his/her own comments into the distributed share. Comments will be displayed based on a distributed reputation as well as users personal preferences. Requests for comment/reputation information will be handled with the intent to conceal both the requester and the source of the data as much as possible. The creator of the project (the project manager) devised it as an attempt to mitigate the bias, inaccuracies, and neglect of information he saw in news coverage. The rest of the team shares the same sentiment. Measurable Organizational Value Dan Kopko To provide the Internet public with an intuitive interface by which they can make and share textual annotations and commentary for any website. Description Ellen C. Matchey Currently, Toto allows a user to change and add-to the text on web pages accessible through the user's localhost using the Mozilla browser. It also highlights unaltered text in purple and changed text in green. As shown in Figure 1, the current architecture consists of a Toto proxy that sits between the browser and the Internet listening for requests (i.e. to get a new website or to post changes). Once a request is made, an HTTP Relay thread is created to take care of the thread. If the thread is a request to view a new page (figure 2), the webpage is broken down into several components that isolate the text as shown in figure 4. Then the text in the website is checked against the database to see if any changes/comments have been added (figure 2). If changes were found the text is replaced by text in the database and highlighted with green, otherwise it is displayed unchanged highlighted in purple. If there is a request for a new change to text on a website (figure 3), a key for the text is created. Then, both the key and the changed text are stored on a mySQL database on the user's computer. Next time this website is accessed by the user, keys for the text will be generated, checked against the database, and when there is a match the original text will be replaced by the one stored in the database. Toto is being developed in Java and uses a mySQL database. The goal is to
This is a very smart move by Mandrake. The Cooker idea worked well, but it was never officially promoted in a big way i.e. you never hit the Mandrake home page and saw "Cooker release 9.2 available for download"
,you must know what you are doing - and you'll just end up using Cooker anyway.
,but not experienced enough to compile their own kernels. And that's a good thing - more exposure to a wider range of platforms and better bug feedback.
Dare I say, but it sounds very like the Debian way of doing things (unstable - testing - stable).
But there's a double-edged sword with doing things this way , in that you'll never have the bleeding edge stuff in a "Community" Mandrake release.
But then, if you want that
imho,the Community thing is more aimed at the general casual Linux user - a bit experienced
As an example on why they had to introduce this (possibly), the much advertised MandrakeMove Live CD doesnt even recognise some PCMCIA wireless cards in laptops. A bad oversight.
A MandrakeMove community edition would have helped in identifying this glaring omission.
Overall, it's a big big thumbs up from myself - well done Mandrake for introducing the Community Edition idea.
Radical change? What, are they going to manufacture their OS in 0.10 micron? Wait wait i'm confused.
Trolls dont like to be Flamebait, because they burn so well. Protect our Troll heritage!
quote: It's interesting to see the different distributions slowly moving towards Debian's release policies. My question for the Fedora and now Mandrake is, why not utilize a very organized and effective "community" that exists right now of free software developers?
Probably because we don't want to end up sounding like brain-washed Debian sycophants.
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
How many /. type folx are actually paying for linux distributions these days? I'm not seeking flamebait, but just curious. With distro's like Mandrake, Suse, and Redhat all starting to charge some cash for their production releases, are more people starting to look to alternatives such as Gentoo and Debian? Are others starting to scrap the idea of Linux and move to OSX?
What gets you stoked about Linux? The price tag? Quality? Security? or the fact that it isn't M$.
I'd be willing to pay for a distro like SuSE (or whatever) if I knew that the quality was uber-superb. But even my latest go-round with RedHat 9 has left me fairly unimpressed... Maybe I just love OS X too much?
java guy, tech blog...
Yet another crippling blow has struck what's left of the *BSD community, as a soon-to-be-released report by an independent commission doing a year-long study concludes: *BSD is dead and mummified. Here are some of the commission's findings:
.005% of internet servers. "It's just not reliable," said Christine McGee, VP of Technology for eBay, Inc. "Nor do we find it a very modern OS. I would recommend Linux to anyone contemplating a server OS, or maybe Windows, before I would recommend a BSD."
Fact: the *BSDs have balkanized yet again. There are now no less than twelve separate, competing *BSD projects, each of which has introduced fundamental incompatibilities with the other *BSDs, and frequently with Unix standards. Average number of developers in each project: fewer than five. Average number of users per project: there are no definitive numbers, but reports show that all projects are on the decline.
Fact: Apple is quietly changing the base kernel for OS X from *BSD to Linux. Insiders report that Apple's technical leadership has grown tired of the licensing battles and is seeking a more modern license; they find Linux's license more appealing. Many Apple technology experts -- from OS developers all the way up to Steve Jobs -- find Linux to be a more advanced OS, which will enable Apple to release a more mature product. The frequent hallway arguments and fistfights among the *BSD developers Apple has hired has also contributed to the decision.
Fact: XFree86 is dropping support for *BSD. The remaining core group believes that the *BSDs have strayed too far from Unix standards and have become too difficult to support along with Linux and Solaris x86. "It's too much trouble," said one anonymous developer. "If they want to make their own standards, let them doing the porting for us."
Fact: Many user-level applications will no longer work under *BSD, and no one is working to change this. The GIMP, a Photoshop-like application, has not worked at all under *BSD since version 1.1 (sorry, too much trouble for such a small base, developers have said). OpenOffice, a Microsoft Office clone, has never worked under *BSD and never will. ("Why would we bother?" said developer Steven Andrews, an OpenOffice team lead.)
Fact: servers running OpenBSD, which claims to focus on security, are frequently compromised. According to Jim Markham, editor of the online security forum SecurityWatch, the few OpenBSD servers that exist on the internet have become a joke among the hacker community. "They make a game out of it," he says. "(OpenBSD leader) Theo [de Raadt] will scramble to make a new patch to fix one problem, and they've already compromised a bunch of boxes with a different exploit."
Fact: NetBSD, which claims to focus on portability (whatever that is supposed to mean), is slow, and cannot take advantage of multiple CPUs. "That about drove the last nail in the coffin for BSD use here," said Michael Curry, CTO of Amazon.com. "We took our NetBSD boxes out to the backyard and shot them in the head. We're much happier running Linux."
Fact: There are almost no FreeBSD developers left, and its use, according to Netcraft, is down to a sadly crippled
Fact: DragonflyBSD, yet another offshoot of the beleaguered FreeBSD "project", is already collapsing under the weight of internal power struggles and in-fighting. "They haven't done a single decent release," notes Mark Baron, an industry watcher and columnist. "Their mailing lists read like an online version of a Jerry Springer episode, complete with food fights, swearing, name-calling, and chair-throwing." Netcraft notes that DragonflyBSD is run on exactly 0% of internet servers.
With these incontroverible facts staring (what's left of) the *BSD community in the face, they can only draw one conclusion: *BSD is dead and mummified.
Mandrake is responding to its user's wishes. If you don't like the way Mandrake does things, the good news is that there are several other distros to choose from. There's no need to rag on Mandrake for making this change - it's certainly more innovative and user friendly than what Redhat and Suse have done with their sales model. Remember, you can still download free Mandrake iso's and updates are still free too.
"And now, Frank N. Furter, your time has come. Say 'goodbye' to all of this, and 'hello'... to oblivion!"
TODO:
1) Confuse customer with new alpha/beta/RC/final system
2) ???
3) Profit!
"2) Fedora is in fact the same as the Mandrake Cooker project, which started... 5 years ago."
Nope sorry Fedora is NOT the same as Cooker. Ever heard of Rawhide? Who is copying who again?
Second off Fedora releases go through a LOT of public testing unlike Rawhide and Mandrake Cooker. Fedora IS designed to be a stable release. Cooker, "Cooker is an experimental distribution, it's not for daily use!". Contrast that with "The goal of the Fedora Project is to work with the Linux community to build a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from free software.". Pretty dam big difference.
The ONLY difference between Fedora and Mandrake's new "community" product is the respective QA of each company and how long the releases are supported.
Good Troll, but *Red Hat* is the one innovating here.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
I did not say anything about money.
I asked what they get.
It doesn't have to be cash. I feel this is an important point, because the drive that makes Linux great, may not be the same as today contributors get older, and the young tech see linux as something thats been 'done'.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
[Funny how /. strips out all non-pure-ascii characters from posts... Can't use dead keys here?]
Remember, Mandrake is french, so you have the bonus of having the french press release too!
Pour ceux qui parlent francais dans la foule: n'oubliez pas! Mandrake est une entreprise francaise, alors vous avez enfin la chance de lire un communique en francais!
Le communique!
Semantics is the gravity of abstraction
We'll end up with a Mandrake stable, which we've never had (and probably keeps them off some corporate desktops) and I'd imagine the testing Mandrake will be pretty much the same as regular Mandrake has always been (bleeding edge, sometimes buggy and still the best of both worlds).
For those posters complaining about the new 'Official' release being out of date, bleeding edge will *still* be in the community version, nothings changed. I'd guess the 'official' version will focus more on thier new Corporate desktop push and configuration/usability technologies. Makes perfect sense to me and maybe we can see some more serious usability enhancements (DrakConf is great, but not much has changed lately) now that some of their costs will be more focused (if the community comes together, which seems pretty active already in the club).
Quack, quack.
To answer your *first* question: I'd been using Red Hat on desktops & servers for years (ever since Caldera Network Desktop, built atop Red Hat Linux 3.x), and had paid for Linux distros a few times. When RHAT EOL'ed 8x/9.0, I had to find something else. RHAT's commitmemnt for supporting Fedora is unproven. Debian folks still can't figure out how to use digital signatures for their packages. SuSE won't let me download ISOs to try. But Mandrake gave me everything for free and asked me to join MandrakeClub if I wanted to, and gave me choices about how much to give. So I gave.
Gee, don't take advantage of the beta testers and actually make them test the release or nuthin'
Somebody marked this as a troll. Yet, in most companies QA is a cost center. In MS's world, it is a profit center. That represents the ultimate in capitalism. Perhaps only Linux with its' programming model is more capitalistic.
The comment was meant in admiration, not as a troll.
I said it before, and I say it again:
No way I'm going to enter bills for Mandrake Club Services from a French company into my books.
I do not want to explain to the accountant and the taxman that Mandrake Club is not a parisian brothel.
For gods sake, choose a professional, if boring, name.
If mandrake are so committed to the community, why don't they release the 9.2 ISO's that won't destroy your cdrom drives, instead of hiding them for club members only?
...is pro-american!
1) Mandrake Linux is a european product.
2) Mandrake is much better than RedHat (US product)
3) Mandrake is a small firm and therefore cares about their users (unlike RedHat)
4) Evolved from RedHat it is a much, MUCH better distro than RedHat (was)
5) Everyone who hates america uses Mandrake
6) RedHat is used by US military
7) Mandrake is anti-american!!!
8) Gay, fatty, lazy american bums like to fight for RedHat's reputation because they can't distinguish between patriotism and a product that sucks!
Windows software modems are fucking junk. You're probably the asshole that designed it.
If you guys would just shutup and install Gentoo you wouldn't be having these stupid distro discussions.
Gentoo is simple, one install per machine for life.
Put this in your daily cron to keep the whole system up to date:
emerge sync
emerge -pvu world
Then every morning you can see what new stuff you may want to update that day.
Look for new software with:
emerge -s whatever
Remove software with:
emerge -pvC whatever
Unless you have and run exactly what chipset and compiler flags your "distro" based binarys are compiled for, your system will never be as fast as it can be.
And thanks RedHat for making me a Gentoo user!
I suggest that when the first Mandrake 10 release appears, it should be called "10.0". The "official" release, afterwards, should be called "10.0.1"
:)
The next would be "10.1" and "10.1.1"; then "10.2" and "10.2.1".
This would fall in-line with the way 9.2 and 9.2.1 were released. Otherwise, I fear there will be **great** confusion!!! The release number should
directly indicate which exact version is in an ISO image, or on a computer, etc.
I strongly support the idea of interim ISO releases, after all the bugs and security updates are shaken out.... the 9.2.1 release was an extremely good idea.
I forwared this comment to Mandrake, hopefully they are listening
It would be nice if you gathered a bit of knowledge before you exhibited how ignorant you really are.
To begin: it was the sharp new management that came in and began a buying binge that put Mandrake into a dangerous financial position. This group too was pulling Mandrake from their Linux roots. Only after returning to the original lead and those roots did its financial status and product quality improve. Moreover, Mandrake moved from loses into a profit this past quarter.
Since you are using the SCO model to critique: it was SCO that was closed source that bought the more or less open source company and has been hell on wheels since then.
Get a few facts straight before blowing off on your preconcieved ideas. It would make reading the comments here from all sides easier to take.
Even the Java projects I work on at apache are scared of debian unstable.
The last recent one -java code (in Ant) that was doing a touch wasnt working. The cause? the c library code to set the filetime was broken. Fundamental things like that going wrong worry me.
Still, it is easier to replicate a debian-unstable build than a redhat enterprise system -if someone files a bugrep on the latter, I cannot just bring it up in a VMware window for a closer look.
Can grandma use it? Are programs and drivers simple to install? If not, it's back to the drawing board fellas.
One of the major problems with any Linux distro is the designers (nerds) make it for themselves. XP isn't dominant because of a monopoly, it's dominant because it's so damn easy for even the most inept of users. People could care less about security holes, instability, support-a-coroporate-monolith, if it means they can actually get their computer to do what they want it to.
You can be a Linux elitist all you want, but don't blame Microsoft for the Open Source's failure to create a product for the MAJORITY of desktop users (read: computer illiterates).
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
Good Troll, but *Red Hat* is the one innovating here.
I'll be sure to tell the Debian project that the way they've been doing things for the past 10 years is now an "innovation" from Red Hat.
Jay (=
This sounds like a refinement of RH's strategy to me. Fedora's designed for consumer usage, with certain features from Fedora eventually finding their way to RHEL (say, if someone working on Fedora comes up with an amazingly good idea, or some such).
Of course, the only difference seems to be that Mandrake's "official" releases are still targeted at the consumer with download editions, while the "official" fedora releases are meant for corporate consumption.
echo 'Red Hat' | sed 's/Red Hat/Mandrake/g'
Sounds like the same release process that Debian has had all along.
Also sounds a lot like the RedHat - Fedora release process recently announced.
Hmmm... It must work.
I wonder what SuSE will do?
Cooker == ~arch
Unstable == arch
Stable == portage-ng should support "stability" by early 2006!
In fact, I still use fdisk in conjunction with Anaconda's GUI to GNU parted; when one is fussy about the positioning and naming of partitions on disk, one have to.
To their credit, Mandrake has one of the more powerful GUI partitioning utility around. Apart from that one release (9.0 IIRC?) where you could not enter the partition size manually and have to use sliders!
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
And here I was, hoping that "Switch from use of RPM to DEB package management" and "Get rid of /etc/sysconfig and do things in a less redundant manner" were on their list.
Maybe they're saving that for a later release? Doubt it, personally. You'd think they'd make the change, though - package management is much easier with debian than with an RPM system.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Gave 'em about 120 bucks. Bought a year of the Club, then bought a boxed 9.2 set with the discount Club membership gives you. That throws an extra month into the Membership as well.
The way I see it, they deserve some support for services well rendered. I downloaded 8.2 and am still using it. (Very good release overall.)
9.2 was a bit of a wash for me. Lots of new stuff, but some rather annoying bugs. The 9.2.1 iso looks to be well worth the club membership. (When I get to downloading it that is..)
Back before I tried 8.2, I tried many distros. All of them were cool, but 8.2 really stuck with me. Their overall direction is the most Desktop like for me. (I detect a slight IRIXish feel to the tools and terminology I like.
Nice to see them in the positive.
Blogging because I can...
Well now that redhat isn't made anymore they have no-one else to steal everything from :}
Windows software modems allow many users to get connected to the internet. They are not junk, they work as intended, no more and no less.
Fuck off and die (or just buy a hardware modem, your choice).
This isn't so much a change in the way Mandrake operates, only in the way they publish the releases.
....
...
Mandrake already maintains internal trees of some of the releases. For instance, HP has a version of Mandrake 9.1, 9.1.2, which has all the fixes for 9.1 plus some customisations for HP.
So, now we're just seeing this externally
You may also be old enough to remember Mandrake 7.0.1
What's with the "chapter" thing? Why "chapter"? What does it mean?
After the debacle 9.2, it was the last straw for many folks.
They HAD to do something about their appalling QA or lack thereof.
Hope they survive & prosper, some great work in there.
... comparing apt to rpm?
package management is much easier with debian than with an RPM system.
So I'm guessing you use dpkg to install all packages on your Debian box? What, you don't???
Just as I don't use rpm to install all RPM packages on my box, I use urpmi for 99.9% of them, I only use rpm when I want to revert a package to test scripts in an upgrade scenario for the packages I maintain.
How many
Actually I'd love to pay for Mandrake, the only problem is that the product life is damn to short .. 18 months for something I want to install onto production servers is wayyyy to short ..
Even the 3 year Mandrake "Corporate Server" is a bit young death for my liking ..
What I would like is something with a 5-6 year product life that could be bought under support contract.
I have raised this issue both in the mandrakeclub and with our Linux support company who has some connections to Mandrake, but so far, nothing has come out of it ..
I'd realy love to use Mandrake but so far SuSE looks like the best choice for a production server.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
Beta -> Beta
.1 release to create the official. They attempted to have all the patches and fixes downloadable right in the setup but that didn't really seem to help. I think this is a good attempt to shake the bugs out and still keep a recent system.
Release Candidate -> Release Candidate
Release Version -> Community
Release + patches and bugfixes -> Official
It doesn't move everything back, it more or less adds a
It's kinda like the BSD model with release being considered mostly reliable but better with post-release patches and fixes. You could draw a lot of other parallels too. The fact is that everything before the release stays the same (betas, RCs, etc.).
A Mandrake 6.5 user ehh?
There never was an official 6.5 release from Mandrake. They went from 6.1 to 7.0. It was a cooker snapshot or beta released by Macmillan with the name Mandrake 6.5. Kind of a slimy thing for Macmillan to release a snapshot and claim it's a new version from Mandrake. I suppose they chose 6.5 to not conflict with the real releases.
Maybe you already knew this.