Raph Koster On Sony Online's MMO Plans, Hopes

Thanks to Warcry for its interview with Sony Online's chief creative officer, Raph Koster, as he discusses his relatively new job ("My job is primarily to help the teams make their games better, not to have them make my game. I know a lot of folks have been wondering if I'm here to change EverQuest to be more like Ultima Online or Star Wars Galaxies, and the answer is no"), the evolution of the MMO ("I see a little bit of a backlash here and there against the MMORPG in its classic form. There's maybe a sense that we haven't advanced the genre fast enough. My main answer to that one is 'it takes three years to make one of these things, give us a break, we haven't actually gotten to iterate very much yet'"), and why it's not just about designing the game ("I've been reading more and more in psychology and anthropology and sociology... Game design is only one facet of online world design, frankly.")

Comments

thats just great ...

[torpor]

... "I've been reading more and more in psychology and anthropology and sociology... Game design is only one facet of online world design, frankly." ...

I guess its just a matter of terms, but I'd prefer he focused on the spirit of the game, rather than turning it into numbers and analyses and breaking it down into this terribly typical corporate newspeak... but then it could be my general dislike of the video-game industry in general which could be swaying my view. I'll admit that I find any group who seek to profit by wasting peoples time as much as possible [(*(void *)consumer-time)] to be a relatively despicable bunch...

Anyway, my point is, justifications of 'not enough iterations' not-withstanding, MMORPG's have just lost a lot of spirit.

Its like, the RPG's which used RPG 'format' as a means by which to tell a story compared to the RPG's which use RPG 'format' just to cover a market seem to be better.

All this format and over-analytical plot-mongering which comes from 'load balancing' and 'average mean time to next bathroom break' measurements seems to detract from the humbler purpose of RPG's, MMORPG's, and video games in general, and that is to tell some sort of story ...

Re:thats just great ...

[Mike Hawk]

That was a solid gold rant. The only problem is that the "online-game-company fat pink executive" would actually prefer that the player pay his monthly fee and never ever log into the game. These games have monthly fees, not access fees. What does that mean for your rant? Basically that your fundamental premise was wrong. The companies want you to buy the game and then play as little as possible to not use their server resources.

Now as to why insight comes from "the 'experts', the chosen few, or the holy order of ordained monks", well its because they wouldn't pop into the games section to troll with such blatant ignorance. Good game.

Re:thats just great ...

[torpor]

dude, i hate the video game industry because i've worked in that industry and know what i'm talking about.

in actual fact, consumer-time-online *is* tracked, *is* monitored, and it *is* a statistic which fat pink execs like to harvest.

the games industry has evolved into a 'hollywood model' for consumer attention. time spent playing is eyeballs controlled, focused on your product, and you're damn tootin' that this statistic is an important one to the people who run these businesses, online service overload dilemna or none ...

Facets.

[Cosmik]

Game design is only one facet of online world design, frankly.

True. I'll be the first admit that (having obtained a psychology degree at university). However, game design still remains the most important facet. And frankly, you didn't get that right with Star Wars Galaxies. Jedi system, anyone?

Get In The Game!

[blueZhift]

I was a bit disappointed that Koster didn't get into more details about what he thinks needs to be done. Granted, he shouldn't give away any trade secrets, but saying more might assure the reader that he really understands the problems. For example, as others have said here already, RPGs are also about telling a story. What I've been looking for is a story that totally engulfs you and permeates everything. Having played EverQuest and SWG, I can say that they've got the massive world to explore thing down pretty well, but I never felt a part of any larger story that I cared about. Yeah, the socializing is okay, but that's not really why I play, I want a story that blurs the line between fact and fiction, something I'll waste time thinking about at work...

One thing I think Mr. Koster needs to do at all costs is to get into the games. Get in there and play, so that he has a really good feeling of what the players are experiencing and sometime griping about. I know that MMORPGs are very complex beasts where there is no escape from paying the beta test. There's just no way to get it all right on day one (though FF XI is doing a good job I hear). Given that, maybe the best way to evolve and move the game on is from the inside. Live it, breathe it, eat it! Grok it!

Missing the point

[dhall]

There's been a lot of discussion on how Raph 'failed' both UO and SWG. His concept of what he thinks players want is similiar to how you treat an ant farm. The issue that most players take with this... noone wants to be treated like a worker drone ant, and to be told point blank, well that's a slap in the face.

Raph should take a close look at FFXI, and remind himself that people want to play a game. The word MMORPG ends in G, and that should be the most important aspect, not creating some sort of microcosm of human society. People often play their games as a form of escapism, to get away from the everyday world. They don't want every aspect of reality within this world. Players "pay to play", this isn't a MUD, where devs can play as gods. Customers are just that, and a clash of egos between players and devs does more to hurt the genre.

Another thing people want is content. Not make your own world type content, but real content, that they've paid for. The idea is that MMO's should be worlds built for players, not built BY players. Vocal minorities among players will say one thing, but it's often "pie in the sky" ideals. The vast majority of players will determine what they want, aka "Skinner Box" mentalities via money they've spent.

Re:Missing the point

[PainKilleR-CE]

A typical single player game has 20-40 hours of content.

In MMORPGs players average 18-20 hours per week. A player may stay for 6 months or more. So for even an average player, that's around 500 hours of content. How much are you willing to pay for this?

What you're missing, though, is that in a typical single player RPG the amount of content you experience in 18-20 hours (I also can't see that being an average player, though it may be an average for players that play 5+ days a week) is significantly more than you experience in an MMO game. 18-20 hours into the average single player RPG you're a fairly high level character either at the mid-point or near the end of the game. In an MMO game you've achieved very little in terms of character level and probably not experienced much outside the initial starting point (assuming you're not power-levelling with friends and getting high-end equipment from them for your low-level character).

Of course, the slower level of progression is justified by a necessity to keep players coming back, keep them subscribed to your game, paying the fees. What it misses out on is the wish by players to experience a game, to explore a new world, without spending 90+% of their time on a treadmill. Diablo 2, for instance, is a fairly small game content-wise, but people keep playing despite a somewhat tedious mid- to end-game and a high amount of repetition beyond the first 5 hours of play. The content in your average MMO game is far beyond that of Diablo 2, yet you experience more of Diablo 2's content in a short timeframe than many players experience in the average MMO game over the same time period.

People usually play games to feel empowered, to get away from reality for a while, and to be entertained. MMO games, for the most part, instead make people feel their characters are weak, need to be built up, and require work from the player. People find it entertaining for a while, and some people get sucked into it for various reasons, but in the end people don't want their wookie running away from a crab or to spend 30 hours killing bats to gain 1 level simply because they die in 2 minutes if they venture beyond the bats. Furthermore, they want to know why they're killing bats, why they're gaining levels, and so on. Many of these games just don't give you that feeling of an overall purpose, and you end up with short term goals that are replaced with new short term goals as you accomplish them, and even the most long-term of goals is only made long-term by the grossly inflated times it takes to acheive anything of merit.

As for player-created content, there are 2 major drives behind players wanting that capability:
1) a lack of decent developer-created content
2) a wish for the ability to actually have an effect on the world around them and to personalize their part of that world

If players feel the game has engrossing content provided by the developers and the game gives them a feeling of being able to change the world around them, the need for player-created content would diminish dramatically.

Stories are Not Possible or Desired...

[Anonymous Coward]

Disclaimer: I knew Raph Koster back when he, his wife, and another couple first founded LegendMud. While I don't agree with everything he's done since then, I admit I'm probably more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than the average Star Wars Galaxy player.

People have complained time and time again that what they miss the most from an MMORPG is the story. What the same people don't realize is that MMORPGs do not end, thus have no resolution, thus have no story.

I admit it's a fine distinction. It's certainly possible to have episodes and quests where you set out to accomplish a goal. The problem comes when you've accomplished all of your goals. Then what? Sit around and twiddle your thumbs? Grief play?

To further illustrate the point, when you play a conventional single player RPG, you usually either destroy the world, or destroy the threat to the world such that the populace can live in relative peace and harmony. You get a sense of accomplishment and you move on.

I recently stopped playing Asheron's Call (an old MMORPG by today's standards). When I left, I asked one of my friends why she continues to play and she says she loves AC still because it gives her the freedom to do any old thing. Some days she feels like being an archer and sniping titans (Lugians in the game), other days she feels like being a melee and getting down and dirty with Alien style bugs in the underground tunnels (the Olthoi). Once in a while, she doesn't feel like exploring so instead she crafts.

The point being is that she plays for the visceral experience, not because she has a specific purpose in mind. I believe the vast majority of people who stick with all these "terrible, stupid, non-innovative" MMORPGs like Star Wars Galaxy feel the same way; they are not there to co-op towards a goal as in NeverwinterNights, they are merely there to enjoy the freedom of choice in their day to day activities.

And those people are the people most willing to pay monthly fees year in and year out.

I suspect Raph Koster had that in mind right from the begining. The problem is that the Star Wars Universe is very story driven - there's a conflict and there's some resolution that changes the nature of the galaxy, such as the rise and fall of the Emperor. And as many people have since then discovered, not everyone can be a Jedi and change the galaxy, and it's a hell of a lot boring if you want to be one of those Jedi.

At this point, Sony probably wants to create worlds that encourage people to well... "be born", make friends, make enemies, "grow families", build houses, grow old and well... die, over the span of years. The last thing they are interested in is creating a single arc story that a power-gamer can come in, finish in six months and move on to greener pastures. With that thought in mind, I think Koster is a good choice - people do bitch and whine about his worlds, but in the end, they live on for an extremely long time as UO will testify.

Yet we're still at problem number one

[MMaestro]

After watching so many MMORPGs hit the market in the past few years (Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call 1/2, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxy, Final Fantasy XI etc) I don't think developers have solved the first problem to making a MMORPG.

How to give a player a role in a larger world without forcing him into it and without belitting everyone else.

The last three letter in MMORPG stand for Role Playing Game. We already know the single player RPGs are coming to a crossroads with the East (Japan) sticking to painfully linear storylines and characters while the West (U.S.A. and Europe) are going with the non-linear development of games. The problem with making a MMORPG is the storyline. Any quest any developer thinks of for a game is quickly blown through by players (even "super" monsters are being taken down by parties/guilds numbering in the hundreds). As such, developers are left with this one option, constantly and quickly add new content on a regular basis. The best successful example of this is Final Fantasy XI.

However, note that I said 'best' not 'only' or 'most'. The reason I point this out is because Final Fantasy XI has not been regularly releasing content that is pertant to the storyline except in irregularly released expansion packs (which non-Japanese players got as part of the original game). However I state that Final Fantasy XI is doing well because they have been successfully holding special events regularly on holidays and have already annouced an expansion which (at least the title) is related to the storyline.

Until a MMORPG successfully manages to constantly release content (free or not) containing quests related to the storyline, current MMO"RPG"s will be nothing more than leveling up or hording phat l3wt games since players will quickly go through whatever quests related to the storyline in a few weeks.

Raph's Website

[ru-486]

This guy has been around for a while and he really knows his stuff. There's always going to be conflict among casual gamers, hardcore gamers, role players and the developers. If anyone has the experience and is qualified to at least make an educated ATTEMPT to resolve those conflicts it's Raph. For a better understanding of the guy check out his page . In particular, click the gaming link and read some of his essays. -ru

Wall of China built around SWG

[pelsmith]

>>Those of you who have been around me in the various games know that I place a high premium on interacting with players and being honest with them.

This from the man who closed the SWG forums so they cannot even be read unless you are paying a monthly fee. If SWG honestly became a great game today, we would have no more information than the standard marketing nonsense.