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The Best Colleges for Network Engineering?
viperstyx asks: "Ive come to that time in my life where I have to choose what colleges im going to apply to for my undergraduate degree. I'm very interested in Computer Science but I'm not sure if I want to major in Comp Sci, but I do have a high interest in networks. I hope to work on things like Internet2, or in a large business environment after college. I was hoping to find a college with a major, along the lines of Network Engineering, but I have yet to find one." What colleges have the best programs to prepare prospective networking engineers for the future?
RIT? I like the EE program, and a lot of CS students I know like it here.
Study CS in undergrad. Wait until Graduate School to specialize.
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Right from the Internet2 website: list of lead Universities working on Internet2.
The University of Tennessee, Knoxville, has a good network engineering track. Dr. Tom Dunigan, who also is involved with high performance networking/computing/security at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, is a big draw. SNMP was born at UT as well, where Dr. Jeff Case is known to make the occasional appearance when not running SNMP, Inc.
I really don't feel you have to focus on exclusivity to Network Engineering. I feel that most schools with programs in Network Engineering are not the most recognizable. I suggest you focus on a CS degree or a computer engineering degree. If you perform well in either of these fields you should be able to land almost any job in the industry. Recruiters look at your college record and see what kind of person you are based on your grades, difficulty of classes, and experience gained. The actual information learned is rather insignificant to the kind of person you are.
They have the entire range of Cisco certification classes.
You also may want to consider something in telecommunications as that covers a lot of networking as well.
And then you can still apply for work outside of IT.
I suggest you go with the college/CompSci degree, then spend another 6 months to a year in a certification-type place getting things like A+, Network+, Cisco basic certs, and some linux/unix sysadmin basic certs (the latter cause most linux/unix sysadmins know networking a lot better than most MCSE types since they are network-centric OSs from the get-go). And depending on where you go to college, many colleges let you take tests for *life experience*, so if you got some network-related certs while in college, you might be able to have them credited and not spend as much time.
I think college, in fact, is overrated in a lot of ways, putting yourself 60K in debt is not worth it. I'd recommend a cheap state school if possible, or community college for the first two years of college. Keep in mind, a lot of people change their minds after two years in college, and decide they want to do something else (or may just not like the field).
Moreover, I think technology is becoming extremely competitive. Better to try a field like nursing or maybe look for something in biotech.
In any case, if you want to do something in technology, be prepared to study hard and keep learning, tech is one of those fields requiring constant reeducation to maintain an edge.
I would definetly suggest checking out US News. They have an awesome website, in regards to "rankings" of the U.S. top schools and such, and they have them separated by degree and "rankings". While this may not be THE DEFINITIVE answer, it is certainly a step in the right direction. . .
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IMHO the best preparation available (in the context of an undergraduate degree) would simply be a solid program in Computer Science. There are lots of fundamentals to be learned... complexity theory, distributed systems, etc. Once you have a solid grounding in Computer Science you will still need to learn the hands-on material of network engineering ("What do I do with this Cisco thingy?") but you will be at a significant advantage. If you want to work on cutting-edge stuff an academic background is essential.
This may come across as a conservative approach, but keep in mind that I am an academic and when it comes to education we are expected sometimes to think conservatively. Thus I say to you:
Building strong foundations on the conceptuals and the foundations of computing is extremely important. You need a good grounding in mathematics, logic, and systems. This is something that you'll get if you majored in CS or math. CS is obviously preferrable.
Once you have a good understanding of the underlying principles you'll be ready to embark on a more challenging adventure in exploring Networks and Computer Engineering. You may do so by pursuing a research MS degree or even going for the PhD if you are up for 4-5 years living below poverty :)
It is easier to do good work in CE coming from CS than the other way around. Here's an example, that deals with databases. Most CEs working on databases are trying to tweak SQL interpreters and compilers in order to get an extra 1-3% performance. This is great. But a CS researcher will be looking at new concepts of querying rather than overengineering an existing paradigm (relational databases have been around for over 30 years and are over-engineered by now).
If you are interested in doing good work in CE your BS will not be enough, unless you are one of these gifted people who can find a great job at a major research lab (e.g. TJ Watson) and learn the research ropes fast. For the rest of us, an MS or a PhD program is necessary and quite beneficial. That's why I suggest that you focus your undergraduate studies in getting the fundamentals right (through studying CS or Math). You'll have plenty of opportunity to focus on engineering or other interesting aspects as you consider graduate school eventually
Now as to where to go, it depends on your mobility and ability to secure funding. The top math and CS departments are at schools with rather expensive tuition. Yet, there are state schools with great programs that will enable you to apply to top graduate programs when the time comes.
I hope this helps a bit. If you need more info, feel free to write to me.
Disclosure: I am a CS professor (in comp bio, not networking), and my department (WUSTL) is well-known for networking-related research.
If you want to get into stuff like protocol design, routing architecture and algorithms, and the other "guts" of designing and building high-speed networks, consider a CS or Computer Engineering degree. Besides the obvious courses in networking per se, you will have the opportunity to study algorithms relevant to the area (e.g. minimum spanning tree, network flows, suffix trees and other fast string matching methods for routing tables); hardware design (for building gigabit-and-up routers and other cool network gear); and design of large software systems, including the principles behind distributed systems like the DNS and peer-to-peer networks.
Depending on where you go and what your interests are, you can also bone up on the underlying math (e.g. queueing theory for protocol design) and maybe even some physics/EE (signal propagation, etc).
Yes, you can probably work your way to a strong practical knowledge of how to build a network, and getting your hands dirty is essential to success. However, the point of a CS degree is (1) breadth in computing fundamentals, which I hope I've persuaded you are relevant to networking, and (2) quickly getting up to speed on how to *think* about networks, independent of any particular protocol or hardware standard.
Oh, and speaking of getting hands dirty... if you go to the right place, you might be able to get on board a networking-related research project!
I recently went to an open house for a new school called Northface University. They have an extremely interesting bachelor of science degree in computer science where you will spend 28 weeks working on state of the art IT. The teachers include Terry Halpin and Joe Celko. The school is in its first year of existence. That actually means you would be working directly with the professors as they establish curriculum. The idea is to pack a full bachelors degree in a 28 month intense programming fest.
Might I suggest the University of Washington in Seattle? It has one of the finest Computer Science departments in the nation. If you don't want to go into something as scientific as Computer Science, there's always the Informatics program (one of the only programs of its type in the world) which looks at computers and information in the context of humanity, something that works well within the setting of network engineering.
I did exactly what he said. I got my hands on the higher end cisco routers/switches by working at Portland State University (located in Oregon) for $8 an hour. And used that knowledge to get a CCNA. Then used that CCNA and experience to get a job making good money without a college degree.
I got to work underneath a very bright person (lead network engineer), who in my humble opinion provided me with a lot more useful information than a lot of the teachers did when I was a student there. I got to work with a large campus lan that used VLAN's, 802.11b (when it was $700 for a cisco base station), and even Internet2.
Basically, I highly recommend getting a job at a University in the NOC or IT operations, as what the jobs lack in pay is made up with copious amounts of resources and experience.
Firstly, congratulations on wanting to go with a real degree before jumping into the networking field. Its the way to go if you want to have any future beyond "button pushing lackey". Your entry level CCNA job has already been shipped to India, shoot higher.
There may not be a specific "Network Engineer" degree at all universities, what you want is to study Electical Engineering, add in some Mathematics (queue theory, statistics), and top it off with Physics (optics, particle physics). All of these elements are required to actually understand what is going on with networks. Specific topics to concentrate on include circuit design, transmission lines, antennas, material science, compiler design, signal processing, queue theory, and statistics, lots of statistics.
If you want to be the guy who actually writes new RFCs to be used by everybody else, gets hired by companies like Cisco to create new routers or protocols, and be the chief designer on world spanning networks, ignore the certificates for now. Concentrate on getting the background information necessary to understand all the aspects of network design, like speed of light limitations, electrical characteristics of transmission lines, radio circuits and complex mathematics. Picking up a cisco certificate will then take a week of your time when you are ready to join the workforce, and you'll know not just the HOW, but the WHY.
There are a ton of CCIEs on the market today, those without university degrees are flipping burgers or repairing PCs. The interesting work, such as creating optical switches or ultra efficient routers, can only be done by people with advanced degrees. The cert holders sit in the NOC at 3 AM, working their way through a never ending stream of trouble tickets, wishing they had a real degree to get a real job.
That said, from my experiences with US university grads, I'd recommend UC Berkeley, Purdue, CalTech, or UoWashington.
the AC
who just let his CCIE expire, because its worthless in todays job market
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
One of the best things about going to a school like Harvard or Stanford is that many of your classmates are wealthy and connected. During your program at school you will have many opportunities to form networks with fellow students, their parents, and alumni who later in life will be able to get you a job.
I know I'm plugging my own university here, but A&M has a really great environment if you want to do networking. Also, the CPSC degree plan is pretty flexible.
:-). Also, note the NE program at TAMU: http://vnelab.cs.tamu.edu/network_engineering_vne. html
Check out the
VNE and this list
of schools that the NSA has designated as "CENTERS OF ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE IN INFORMATION ASSURANCE EDUCATION" which also largely have good networking programs. This list of course includes Texas A&M University
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I just graduated from a CC after five years of school. The first two where at a four year school New Mexico Tech. I started with Cs and found it wasnt what I wanted and then went to EE, which also wasnt what I wanted. I then came back to chicago to get my AAS in Network Administration. Dont waste your time/money if you want to work with the stuff. If you want to design the hard/software behind the network then by all means go to a four year university.
Experience is the main key in getting a job in Network Administration. Get your hands on as many programs and operating systems as you can anc get some consulting done. The more experience you have the more people will want you even if you dont have your four year degree. As long as you have proof you can do it they will hire you.
Just my two cents.
Not a very well known school, but it's a campus of both Indiana University and Purdue. I suggest checking out the Informatics major. IUPUI also has a part in Internet2. I'm not sure of the details, as my area is bioinformatics, but there's something under the library :o).
Otherwise, you may also be interested in Purdue's CPT program. They offer a Network Engineering Degree. Purdue is perhaps the best engineering/tech university in the midwest, maybe even east of the Mississippi. In fact, maybe even east of California. And unlike IU, their football team doesn't entirely suck.
Plus, Indianapolis has lots of things going for it for someone in the industry. Plenty of large companies that need tech workers (the headquarters of Lilly and Conseco and Thompson Consumer Electronics North America and Simon Property Group - the world's largest mall owner) as well as many regionally strong tech companies.
Yes, I'm a little biased, but for good reason.
It sounds like you have a strong interest in high performance networking from your mention of Internet2, so you best gain will probably be from hanging out with people who are working on these projects while in undergrad, if this is possible. This should serve you much better than CCNA-type certifications which aren't nearly as focused on the bleeding edge. The key here is that you have to seek out and attach yourself to projects beyond what is offered by the CS curriculum. Your academic study is the basic thing you have to do, the really interesting stuff is participating in research.
That said, here are a few institutions for you to think about:
Indiana University - Home of the Internet2 NOC and has a lot of interesting research opportunities coming out of the Abilene Observatory project. Definitely a leader on the network operations side of things, a strong CS program and a fantastic CIO.
University of Michigan - A strong CS curriculm and many interesting things going on on campus. Also very close to Internet2 (also HQ'ed in Ann Arbor), so there might be opportunities to intern on projects there during the summers and during the year. The networking coordinator for the ATLAS project works in the UM Physics Department.
Cal Tech - Not really a safety school, but an interesting place to go if you can get in. A lot of networking research is done within Physics and at CACR, most notably the development of FAST TCP stack. Recently won an Internet2 Speed Record. A physics professor here (also strong ties to CACR) is the networking coordinator for the CMS collaboration (a detector at CERN's Large Hadron Collider).
University of Illinois Chicago - The Electronics Visualization Lab is doing really interesting work in both high performance networking and applications that can eat a lot of bandwidth. The lab director is one of the principals of StarLight, a major peering point for high speed research and education networks. Probably the coolest reason to go to EVL - they worked on the Death Star in Star Wars.
This isn't an exhaustive list of good places to go for experience in networking, but it's a few that come to mind. There are lots of other great places that aren't mentioned that would be great, too.
I was hoping to find a college with a major, along the lines of Network Engineering, but I have yet to find one."
/. I'd guess you're a broadband thinker, and may not be happy in a vocational job all your life.
The reason is, most colleges are geared to train for higher-level jobs. When you say 'network engineering', you're thinking of how the job is now, with nuts and bolts and connections and packets. IOW, science, vs politics. But in the near future we'll be more and more abstracted from the hardware -- the difference between an 'object', and the 'symbol for that object'. Wouldn't be long before you're outclassed, and universities know this.
IOW, you think you want what I'd call 'vocational training', as opposed to university training. This may be where you're happiest, but given that you're on
Because university is a rare privilege in the U.S., I say treat it like buying a house, and get the biggest, best, and most you can possibly manage. You'd always have the option of being a network engineer if you want, but you'd also have much better doors to open with a graduate degree.
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