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The Best Colleges for Network Engineering?
viperstyx asks: "Ive come to that time in my life where I have to choose what colleges im going to apply to for my undergraduate degree. I'm very interested in Computer Science but I'm not sure if I want to major in Comp Sci, but I do have a high interest in networks. I hope to work on things like Internet2, or in a large business environment after college. I was hoping to find a college with a major, along the lines of Network Engineering, but I have yet to find one." What colleges have the best programs to prepare prospective networking engineers for the future?
It's about your own networks. People from unknown schools get onto interesting projects becuas hey know who's running them.
Get networking... with humans.
All you need is experience, alot of online resources for OIS, but get your hands on experience with a 3550, 4500, 6500, 7200 (from cisco) get a CCNA... A Dergee in Net Eng is useless if youve never actually implimented a network or worked with a network. Book smarts does not cut it with network engineering.. you need practical experience with both physical (wiring) and software (ois or what have you)... Nick D
Home Sweet Home Linux
If your true to what you like to do, do it, even if the boat is already full. People that like IT for what it is will do better then most who are there to make a quick buck.
-Kilka
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -Chomsky
Nowadays it would be very much to your benefit to be a jack of both trades (programming and networking) and master of a few more. You may want to look into colleges that have good CS programs and then either tackle networking on the side (start w/ CCNA or something), or see if you can get a job working with the university's networking department. Best way to learn networking is hands-on anyways.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
Not that I know anything, but this applies to everything: experience is vital. Go out and do consulting work to get your hands wet. If you know absolutely nothing start off in tech support somewhere - you will learn very quickly. I don't know about what employers are looking for, but I believe that experience would be way more valuable than a bunch of theory that you may have learned from some junior college prof.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, go into business for themselves.
Not to troll, but is that really a college-level degree? Unless by "work on things" you mean "analyze and design your own version of," I think a trade-school level degree, or some sort of MIS, plus the appropriate certifications might be your thing.
However, by sheer virtue of the fact that you "made it" through a more in-depth degree such as CS or Computer Engineering, you'll open yourself up to wider options, and possibly a higher pay. These degrees mean that, in addition to the basic knowledge, you're capable of handing large, complicated projects (if you have a good Capstone program at the school you look at) and have good problem-solving skills, things that aren't, necessarily, taught at a trade-school or 2-year level institution.
Of course, I'm biased as I'm about 3 months from finishing my B.S. Comp. Engr, and 1 year, 3 months from finishing my M.S. Electrical Engr (Yay, 5-year program!).
Posted Anonymously to protect the names of the (not so) innocent.
You know how many Network Engineers are out of work and hurting right now? You'd better believe 4 years from now there will be a lot more out of work network engineers. You are better of going to dental school man.
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One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
I second this. I think that if you are truly set on network engineering, go get a combined computer engineering/computer science degree for your bachelors. This will give you all the requisite skills for network engineering. Beyond that, if you go for a masters or PhD, then you should specialize in networking.
This comes from a computer engineering/computer science major who still has no clue what he wants to do ultimately. I like both the hardware and software sides, but with my degree I'll have the option to do either if I so choose. Flexibility is quite nice you realize this is what you will be doing for your long-term career.
The University of California Berkeley is an all around great school for computer and engineering related fields. Although, when I went there I didn't major in CS or EECS, many of my friends graduated from those programs, and then went onto jobs dealing with networking technologies.
I'm not sure I quite understand the point of network eng. as a stand-alone major. Network Engineering, while high in demand, very important and very difficult, does not seem to be the type of job where an academic college degree would be best suited. The poster seems like he is looking for a school that will teach him how to set up and run major network infrastructure and I'm not sure college degree programs are going to be set up to specifically train that. You will get a lot of the required problem solving skills as a CS Major, but as for how to setup and configure Cisco routers, those skills would be better served via a technical school, trade school or apprentice type system. College is more apt to teach students how to come up with efficient networking algorithms and solutions rather than how to construct, deploy and maintain a network. EE Majors largely do not learn how to deploy and maintain electrical wiring in a building, those skills, while very difficult and important, are just not normally taught at college. College may still be the right choice, but think of college as a broad education on problem-solving and critical-thinking rather than a place to specifically teach skills. Skills are easy to acquire by those that have had rigorous training in critical-thinking. I'd focus on the CS Majors or ISE Majors. After a couple years, you will have the opportunity to jump into some really great research areas that fit your interests.
I do not agree with this, if you plan to keep moving up you will need a four year degree, and if it's in networking all the better. Schools I would look at are RIT (IT program) Fort Hayes State University in Nebraska (INT program) and the University of Wisconsin Stout Telecommunications Systems program.
I am currently in my last semester at UW-Stout in the Telecom Sys program, at least here I can vouch for getting hands on real world experiance on a variety of networking gear and protocols, a mix of old and new similar to what you might find at a business.
It definitely helps to have a CS degree under your belt. Many companies consider this a more rigorous degree. As an engineer, I also visit campuses to recruit for my company, and individuals with networking type technical degrees with all the certs like CCNA, MCSE, DVDA, etc. are all over the place. We hire for these types of positions, but look a lot more seriously at someone with a CS degree. I'm sure you are one of the ones who actually knows how to think, but many companies think a CS degree is a better indicator of problem solving skills and believe the curriculum is more rigorous.
If you find the right prof in college, you won't have trouble specializing in any niche of CS, including networking. Don't limit yourself to one single aspect of computers this early.
"Moreover, I think technology is becoming extremely competitive. Better to try a field like nursing or maybe look for something in biotech."
Close. People should study math or physics. You get enough exposure to technology in those majors that you can pick up whatever new technologies it is that you will need in any typical job situation. And with the math and logic skills that you will develop companies will actually want to hire you.
Of course your coding might be loose and ugly, but it is >alot easier for companies to teach good coding practices than higher level mathematics.
Here's the real question: do you want to be a scientist or an engineer, or do you want to put stuff together?
Because if you want to STUDY or MAKE things, go to a good CS school: MIT, U of I, Purdue, Carnegie Mellon, University of Chicago (shameless plug, plus U of C will teach you more than just computers). Those are just the top schools off the top of my head, and are necessarily the best schools. I'm sure your own local schools might be good enough. My advice is not to look for a "networking school" as that amount of specialization is not what you want from a university education. See below.
However, if you want to USE things, then get yourself to a trade school, community college, or hell, just teach yourself and get the certification. No need to waste all that money learning about theory, writing papers, etc., when you can just study how to build and maintain networks.
Of course, I'm not saying that this is somehow a 'lesser' pursuit; instead you'll learn more specific skills suited to where you want to work: networking.
--Stephen
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
The same can be said of any technical school :)
;) Lamar sucks ass
(btw, what's up Adam? went to high school with you
I think that the question is about someone who wants to work in the design and engineering of new protocols, not someone who wants to use off-the-shelf tools. If all the inquirer wants is to just be another network tech in a server room somewhere, then he doesn't need college. If he wants to design applications that use all the features of IP:v6, then he should get maybe a Master's. If he wants to design the heir to IP:v6, then he should study a lot of theory and go for a PhD.
The trouble with Slashdot is that sometimes there's a lack of awareness of the gap between the tool-users and the tool-makers - the former, probably due to something of an inferiority complex, are pretty unaware of the realities of the latter.
This is a key point that no one in the Linux/Unix community seems to understand.
What's more transparent, a series of easy to edit text files with names that correspond to the program they control, or storing all information for all programs in one giant binary file?
UNIX is something that you don't seem to understand.
Badass Resumes
College is where you learn to understand how to do things. A job is where you learn how to do things.
Use the college time to learn things you always wanted to know about, physics, electronics, math, history, art, welding, pottery, whatever. Make your degree broad based and in a subject you are curious about, don't make it a focus of a vision of some job you'll have. You want the broadest base of tools possible allowing for flexible career moves later.
A huge majority of people who are regurgitated by the institutional educational system have no real work experience until they graduate. They come out expecting that the time they 'served' will equal career skills. Hardly. As a matter of fact, if you bring the skills you used to get through school into a workplace expecting to rely on them in business you wind up with bad coping skills, lack of communication skills, fundamentally challenged in dealing with the real world. Don't worry, that's about 90% of the business workplace staff.
If you really want to stand out, realize that college is its own little world, use the courses to broaden yourself as a person and expect that your next step is to then learn how to actually work. Start by getting yourself part-time work in the field. It will give you a much better view into how to better make use of course selections and give you an excellent idea if you really do want to work in IT as a career at all.
The things I found that I missed out on by not going through a formal degree are things like finance courses, business law, things that would make starting a business a bit less painful. If you get out into the workplace and discover that you aren't one of the sheep, content to live a cubicle life, you will find that the only way out from working for The Man is to start your own business. These courses will help you there.
It's easy to get a degree and get a job to match what it says. It's much harder to find a job that turns out to be what you really want to be doing. Don't limit yourself with a degree or actually the perception that a degree will make your career.
And as someone else mentioned, a broader degree will introduce you to more fields, in case you change your mind about networking.
GET YOUR WEAPONS READY! --DR.LIGHT
I agree,
Back in the late 90's, when Nortel and JDS uniphase where booming, almost half of our engineering physics program were immediately hired by those two companies upon graduation. (i'm from a Canadian school, so those two companies are basically the entire networking industry here... in the US you'll have many more choices) Electrical engineering, communications option would also be a good bet.
It all depends on what you want to do with your career- if you mean networking as in setting up networks for businesses, then a cert is all you need. But if you actually want to design future networks and develop new technologies, then a Bachelor's in engineering or graduate work in physics/math is the only way to get there.
That's because they they're jealous their starting salaries aren't as people are getting for a 1.5 year program :) Just kidding.
Seriously though, at least half the INI curriculum is business-focused, so if you are looking to work in the "real world" it might be good. If you want to focus on more academic pursuits a pure technical degree would probably be better.
Take a look at:
"Concepts of Modern Mathematics"
by Ian Stewart
"Foundations and Fundamental Concepts of Mathematics"
by Howard Eves
"Calculus Made Easy"
by Silvanus P. Thompson
I hated math coming out of high school. But I got hoodwinked into calculus and eventually I got used to it. Don't let the math scare you away. College math is different from High School math. Take a class in precalculus at the community college during the summer.
What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
I wouldnt exactly agree with this. Information Networking Institute is one of the best places for this stuff, and I guess I would know, since I'm a graduate student here. Did you know that Wireless Andrew started here as a student project ?
And do you also know about the new CYLAB initiative ?
Two years ago, I went back to school to complete an MBA. I found myself ranked at the top of the class, along with engineers, computer programmers, and scientists. Only one other person had a BA. Yet I managed to hold my own and graduate near the top of the class. I proved I could do calculus and compete with "math people".
And then I graduated. People now find it suspicious that I have an English degree and an MBA! They say, "You can't possibly be good at both financial and 'soft' business skills. Which is it?" It's amazing how people put Liberal Arts majors in boxes. I majored in Arts because I felt it was extremely important to have a well-rounded background before specializing. I do think Arts majors learn a breadth of skills and are more likely to challenge establishment thinking.
However, my husband chose to do an undergrad in Math, with a computer science minor and lots of Arts electives. He later completed an M.Math. He has a great job as a software architect, makes about 40% more than I do, and can still quote Shakespeare and Homer.
My recommendation? Do a general computer science or somewhat general engineering degree, and do a double-major/minor in Liberal Arts. Volunteer for some clubs and try to socialize with a wide variety of people. You'll still gain exposure to a broad range of ideas, but you'll have better job options.
That being said, I suppose I still earn more than the average university grad or masters grad. But my husband has a lot more jobs to choose from.
-- SYS 64738 --
If you want to be a network tech, which is not a bad thing. However this is not what an Engineer does. As an engineer you have to understand the theory behind the network and why it works. Then be able to make informed decisions about it.
Just keep that in mind many of my friends went into engineering thinking it was something it is not.
Steve
Computer Engineer
I agree with your post completely, but let me make an emphasis:
If you are going to a University for the sole purpose of getting a well paying job, you're probably going to be surprised. Universities don't train you to be good workers, they are supposed to teach you to think and be relatively well balanced intellectually.
In other words, education is not simply job training. But most undergrads are getting mostly the latter. People need to realize that a university's primary responsibility is to its graduate students. They are not optimized for undergraduates. The best undergraduate experience comes from colleges, which generally do not have graduate schools.
This is borne out by the observation that graduates of small, high-quality liberal arts colleges outperform graduates of universities in almost all fields including science and engineering. To rub salt in the wound, many of these schools aren't very selective, taking B or C students and turning out top-notch competitors for spots in grad schools and the job market. (For more information, start here but be sure to do more research.)
This is not hard to understand when you realize that a genuine, broad education isn't meant to teach you stuff, but to make you smarter -- in exactly the way that learning assembly language or lambda calculus makes you a better coder even if you don't use it or even like it. For me, humanities courses were what really forced me to think faster, harder, and deeper than I imagined possible. NOTE WELL: this never happened with computer science because I was already good at that. The result is that today I'm a well-paid kernel developer and my friends who went to a techy college are unemployed Javaheads.
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Dum de dum.
Freedom is not the license to do what we like, it is the power to do what we ought.
haha, i [the poster] am actually at cmu now, studying cs and physics [double major]. i submitted this question a good year and a half ago. suprised it came up now. oh well, im glad its getting a lot of discussion, its still helping me and hopefully will help a lot of others =]
> There aren't job openings for 'Physicist' or 'Mathematician'
You miss the point. Mathematics is the most widely applicable subject that exist.
In fact, programming _is_ applied mathematics.
Now, that gives a hint of how to become a kick ass software engineer.