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Gnome's Nice Little GUI Perks

Posted by timothy on from the thinking-of-users dept.

asdren writes " Steven Garrity has written a short article highlighting some 'user interface niceties' found in Gnome with regards to file renaming, screen captures, fonts and file zooming." Garrity points out that "... tiny details can have a significant impact on the user experience on operating systems. Inconsistencies that seem insignificant when considering individually, but together they degrade the overall polish and sense of stability in the system," and points out a few places where Gnome manages to avoid such inconsistency.

58 of 502 comments (clear)

  1. Operating Systems? by Sinus0idal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Didn't think Gnome *was* an operating system.

    1. Re:Operating Systems? by Kippesoep · · Score: 4, Informative

      But surely you did think it's a GUI, which is what the article is about.

    2. Re:Operating Systems? by blixel · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...thinking that a polished GUI with a consistently applied set of design principles makes the OS better.

      Yeah you're right. It's so much easier when every program you use employs a totally unique way of doing things. It annoys me that clicking the upper right "X" button not only closes out the browser window when using Galeon, but it stupidly does the same thing when I'm using RhythmBox.

      It would be much better if the "X" button did something completely unique for each program. Better yet, it should randomly generate a new function each time you click the icon. Keep things interesting you know. This time it closes out the window, next time it launches Gimp, the time after that it reboots my computer. Now *that* would be cool.

  2. 6 points by Tongue+In+A+Box · · Score: 3, Funny

    So that's it huh? Years of development, we've come up with better screenshots. Not-so-annoying handling of renaming files. Media players with some nicer features and wait for it....wait for it....zooming!

    Look out Microsoft, your days are numbered!

    1. Re:6 points by imsabbel · · Score: 3, Funny

      Skip the media player with nice features.
      Its just that hardware overlay isnt working :)

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    2. Re:6 points by officepotato · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's more important than you'd think... It seems that everyone loves OSX, which is notable for having an incredible display manager and style standards. People notice the little perks like the camera-shutter sound more than they notice the bigger architectural changes.

      At my job, I run a network of mainly Windows XP computers, and a small lab of linux servers with KDE 3.2 installed as the default desktop environment for whoever wants to use it. Invariably the first user comments are on the bouncing icons, translucent menus, or the fact that GAIM shows buddy icons in the main list. People generally don't care what the operating system is, but they do notice changes in the UI.

      Linux has matured as a server OS, but being fast and pretty will bring it to the masses.

    3. Re:6 points by Alan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why, it's been working for Microsoft for ages? Anyone remember the time around OS/2 and Windows 95 being launched, with MS constantly saying that 95 was delayed but it was going to be so damn good so you'd better just wait a bit longer and not go with that other silly IBM os.

    4. Re:6 points by CaptnMArk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Smarter file renaming was done in OS/2 >10 years ago (alt+click required).

    5. Re:6 points by CaptnMArk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While we are at it... The above is my #1 windows annoyance.

      #2 is the drag and drop than often happens in tree view when you are slighly clumsy with the mouse/double click. OS/2 fixes this too by using the right mouse button for all drag&drop operations.
      (and using the left drag one for multiple-selection).

  3. support for WebDAV in nautilus by stonebeat.org · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Although Steven some nice features, he missed to mention that Nautilus supports WebDAV as well. WebDAV stands for "Web-based Distributed Authoring and Versioning".
    However Nautilus needs to improve the WebDAV functionality. MacOS has the best implementation of a WebDAV client as far as I know.

    --


    Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
    1. Re:support for WebDAV in nautilus by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      KDE has transparent webdav to every kde application through the io slaves. You could use konqueror like filemanager and do webdav://server or webdavs://server since it also has ssl webdav support but more useful is that you can use those urls from any kde application so in your word processor, code editor, sound recorder etc you can save to webdav just like you would your home dir. To make it easier to get back to it you can bookmark it.

      I normally don't use the webdav functionality however stuff like sftp works the same way.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    2. Re:support for WebDAV in nautilus by Matts · · Score: 3, Informative

      Better still, KDE has kio_fish, which allows you to access any ssh enabled server as a file server. Awesome stuff.

      --

      Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
  4. Re:Small inconsistencies? by lokedhs · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Umm... You don't even have to RTFA to see that the article is about GNOME. And GNOME is doing exactly what you were asing for: standardising the L&F of the apps.

    99% of my apps are GNOME compliant. With the exception fo XChat, they are also HIG compliant. That's better that the Windows desktop I used at work (before switching to Linux there as well).

  5. file dialog by Coneasfast · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i personally think the file dialog could use some improvements, (i know, this is gtk), maybe it could use a few more navigation buttons to speed things up, seems a little primitive atm ?!?!

    --
    Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
  6. Google Cache by c4Ff3In3+4ddiC+ · · Score: 5, Informative

    A google cache link is available here.

    --
    *twitch*
  7. Interesting to non-Gnome users by $calar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have been using Gnome for a while, so it's no surprise to me when it comes to the things discussed in this article. About the only new thing I learned is that you can drag and drop screenshots into another program.

    I do think that Gnome developers have paid good attention to detail in the last two 2.x releases. Without KDE 3.2, I'd have to throw in some criticisms there, but KDE 3.2 just rocks. Very refined.

  8. Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Site seems to be down already, heres google to the rescue:
    Google cache

  9. Re:Wow...tech advances by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's not so much the functionality as the smoothed edges on how to do them that the author likes. That's tricky. You can lose either way: either you clone another GUI and get called copycats or you can make it different and even better, but piss off people who are used to the other GUI. (They might not even know why they grit their teeth every time they use a file selector.)

    I read the story title as being about Nice little parks for gnomes. What a wonderful idea!

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  10. and it took Microsoft how long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    to get Windows a decently stable and complete Desktop? 10? 15? Let's not forget GNOME is a relative new-comer at 6 years old, and the fact that it has a fraction of the number of developers and resources Microsoft can devote to their desktop should tell you how quickly it is progressing. Yes it is far from perfect, but you simply have not been paying attention if you aren't astonished by the advances GNOME (and KDE) have made in the last 3 years.

    1. Re:and it took Microsoft how long by Oliver+Defacszio · · Score: 3, Interesting
      2. install Linux, use it for a month,

      How about two weeks? By that point, I'm sure I'd have to --

      1) Use my digital camera that isn't supported by Linux.
      2) Type up a research paper in a word processor that has basic functions like a fast, keystroke-operated word count or a non-retarded means of configuring page numbers (I'm looking at you, OpenOffice).
      3) Use a graphics design package with a UI that was not designed by a GIMP (oops, Freudian slip).
      4) Watch a video on a media player that features a UI that is even remotely usable (in other words, one that doesn't require I waste my time looking for 'skins' that were designed by adults).
      5) View three consecutive web sites without having to dick around with font settings.

      Oh, but it sure is pretty. Really. I like the appearance of KDE 3.1 much more than Windows 2000 (I haven't used XP enough to make any claims), but looks are only a piece of the pie when other aspects of it drive me crazy. I learned that when I dated the lingerie model with an ego the size of Jupiter.

      --

      -
      Inventor of the term 'pardon my French'.
    2. Re:and it took Microsoft how long by jrockway · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > Type up a research paper in a word processor that has basic functions like a fast, keystroke-operated word count or a non-retarded means of configuring page numbers (I'm looking at you, OpenOffice).

      How about M-x tex-count-words in emacs? I have that bound to C-c w. I'll bet you $100 that anyone would consider my LaTeX'd documents better looking than your word documents, too. Really!

      Basically, I have one thing to say to people like you: Don't use Linux. I don't give a damn. If you don't have time to set it up and learn to use it, cry me a fucking river. Bye now. How's that MyDoom treatin' ya?

      You not using Linux is your loss. Not mine. Nice troll, BTW.

      --
      My other car is first.
  11. I'll show you significant impact! by seanvaandering · · Score: 5, Interesting

    tiny details can have a significant impact on the user experience on operating ystems.

    Okay, while I completely agree with that article, Ill share some of my 'user experiences' using Linux vs. Windows and how things in Linux coming from a Windows POV are still archaic at best.

    For instance, yes like windows, you can hit the Print Screen button and get screen shots the same as windows, BUT it popups up a program asking you what to DO with the screenshot and how to save it - very nice.

    However, From a user who used IE just for the convienance when on WIndows, I migrated to Linux beore the MyDOOM crap and heres what Ive found:

    Mozilla still has a ways to go, and is still IMHO a superior browser to IE, mostly due to the fact it does not allow executable installations and popups enabled by default -- HOWEVER, installing Java as a plugin in the browser and making it a "symbolic link" in the plugins directory of the JavaVM is tricky at best. If i didnt have a clue about these things Id be trashing Linux right there. No one in windows land has no clue what a symbolic link is, or how to "create one" in a command line.

    There are other things also, but ill stick to the most basic and most obvious problem that a linux newbie would encounter right off the bat after installing Linux after migrating from Windows.

    Keep in mind, its the things that DON'T work that ultimately decides if a user is going to stick with a particular operating system/GUI/client or not -- unlike most of the slashdot crowd, the general public simply does not have the patience to try and troubleshoot a problem or PAY anyone, for that matter to get the same functionality that they had before.

    1. Re:I'll show you significant impact! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      A symbolic link in windows is known as a "shortcut" You can create one in Konqueror by dragging a icon from one window into another and then selecting "Link here". No command line needed.

      The KDE and Gnome guys have gone long ways to eliminating the use for the command line, so your complaint about java is obsolete. It just works in most distros. Just install the java rpm from the package manager in your distro.

    2. Re:I'll show you significant impact! by Brandybuck · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know, trying to learn Windows from a UNIX POV, I've found some Windows things that are still archaic as well. This creates a significant impact on the user experience.

      There are dozens that I could mention, but the biggest is the window manager. Whatever the name is for the Windows window manager, it does not have snapto or window shading. This is a major annoyance when you have multiple windows up on the screen. Neither does it have easily controlled z-ordering. It is not an easy to use window manager. The look may have improved, but the behavior has not changed from Windows 3.0.

      The only reason the public has stuck with Windows as long as it has is simply because they are familiar with it. No other reason.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  12. Re:Small inconsistencies? by Compenguin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ahh the same way Microsoft Office doesn't use the same widgets as Microsoft Windows? And they are from the same company.

  13. File naming and other stuff by WWWWolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just this weekend I was still getting used to this weird operating system known as MacOSX: "How the heck do I rename a file?" Found out that clicking on the file name works. Yet, I far prefer GNOME's renaming idea: Renaming file is in the context menu, Edit menu and key F2 - and not selecting the file name extension is nice.

    I also like the idea of using SVG for icons - scalable icons rule, and have done so for years in operating systems no one uses. I just wish the SVG themers could come up with even a single aesthetically pleasing and extensive collection of file icons. The button themes are good already.

    Oh, and Emblems. Nautilus had these years ago. These things rule. OSX 10.3 got colored names. Not sure if Windows has innovated this feature yet.

    Now that I finally have some very infrequent access to a Mac - the supposed bastion of good UI design - I've started getting a little bit annoyed that GNOME stuff and WindowMaker are actually better at times. Both are lightyears ahead of Microsoft, though =)

    1. Re:File naming and other stuff by WWWWolf · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The rule on the Mac is the simplest one imaginable: point at the thing you want to manipulate. You learned that rule when you were about six months old

      ...and later I learned that I can either shout "I want the thingy, mom" or point at the thingy until someone gets that thing to me. Later, I learned how to pick it up myself, and the l33t hAx0rs even told how to use Fear and Influence to make other people to get the thingy to me, but I never got hang of it. =)

      The point is, just because I could do the thing with the method I learned when I was a baby, it doesn't mean it's always the best way to do things. There should be alternative ways to do things, along with the simplest way to do it. Even "File - Rename".

      (Apologies if there is such menu option - I've only used the Finnish edition. Apple, historically speaking, has had quite colorful history with translating their OS, not always agreeing to the translated terms the PC/Windows world uses - this isn't always a bad thing, because sometimes Windows translations suck as well. - To this day, Apple calls "File" menu "Arkisto" (lit. "Archive"), not "Tiedosto" (the estabilished translation). This is a great mystery.)

      Problem is that it's impossible to make a good-looking icon using vector graphics. You absolutely have to use a bitmap.

      Now, this is rubbish.

      Take a look around. You would be surprised if you knew how much of "good-looking art" is done with vector graphics. Even small size drawings. Even near-photorealistic icons.

      Most of the MacOS icons I've seen could be done with SVG and no one wouldn't notice the difference.

      First of all, SVG isn't exactly a yesteryear's graphics standard - it's very modern. In technical terms, this means that it has That Alpha Channel Thing figured out. The only BIG complaint from artists against vector graphics that I've heard is "There's only mask, no alpha channel". Well, there is now!

      Not earth-shattering, I know. Improves how things look, though.

      Also, what comes to scaling, I bet some sort of SVG grouping could be used for receding detail. If you want to do receding detail in bitmap icons, it's tricky - always have to create multiple bitmaps. (Okay, in reality you have one Photoshop source file and you just toggle layers and flatten and save.... but still, multiple bitmaps...)

      More likely, you've just come to the Mac with incorrect preconceptions, just like the whole right-clicky, vector-icon thing. You must unlearn what you have learned.

      Bah. Actually, so far I have had very few problems with OSX; there's not really have been much reason to "unlearn" anything. Most of the stuff has been, like, two minute blank stare at screen and then "oh, that thing there." =)

      I'm just saying that I had the illusion that MacOS was supposed to be unsurpassed in usability; It isn't. I suppose nothing is perfect. OSX is still pretty damn good though =)

    2. Re:File naming and other stuff by Jimithing+DMB · · Score: 3, Informative

      One thing that most people completely ignore about OS X's file renaming is that even if the file is name is selected for editing you can still do pretty much anything with it. You can drag it (by its icon) anywhere, you can Command+Delete it, and so on.

      About the only thing you can't do is cut/copy/paste because those actions are context sensitive and so operate on the text instead of the file. Of course, no respectable Mac user ever actually uses Cut/Copy/Paste on files.

      In any case, compare the Mac OS X behavior with the windows behavior. You click once (on a files icon or text) to activate the file, THEN you can click on the text to rename it and better hope you didn't click too fast or else you open the file. When you do get into renaming mode if you try to drag the file anywhere it interprets the mouse down on the icon as "end rename" and totally eats it so now you have to release and click on it again. The bad thing about this is that it has apparently trained people to think that entering into rename mode "accidently" is a bad thing when on a Mac it really doesn't matter and the best course of action is to simply ignore the fact that the label text just highlighted because it really doesn't make any difference.

  14. ./'d article text paste by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    Formatting is the best I have time for

    Getting to Know Gnome
    by steven [10:56 PM February 3, 2004]

    For the last few months, I've been using Fedora, a Linux distribution, as my primary operating system along with the Gnome desktop environment. Linux as a desktop platform still has lots of weaknesses, but I'm generally pleased and am very much looking forward to the progress planned in the next year.

    I've written plenty before about the tiny details that can have a significant impact on the user experience on operating systems. Windows XP is rife with little visual glitches and inconsistencies that seem insignificant when considering individually, but together they degrade the overall polish and sense of stability in the system. It's like seeing cracks, no matter how small, in a bridge you're walking on.

    I've noticed a few little user interface niceties worth sharing:

    Smart File Renaming

    In Windows XP, one click selects a file, then a second click (and a short delay) renders the file name editable. In Mac OS X, any click on the file name renders the file name editable. In my experience, on both platforms, the file renaming functionality is triggered by accident far more often than it is intentionally.

    Gnome, and the Nautilus file manager (the equivalent of Windows Explorer or Mac OS Finder) allows you to rename files only by right-clickling and choosing "Rename..." from the context-menu. While it may seem like the function is "hidden away" behind the context-menu, give that renaming files is a far less frequent tasks then double-clicking on them or moving them (click+drag), this is an appropriate trade-off. Accidentally triggered the file-renaming functionality in both Windows and Mac OS, I'm happy to report that the Gnome technique is much better.

    Also, when you do rename a file, the file name, not including the file extension is selected by default. So, if I want to rename a file called Diary.doc to Journal.doc, I right-click the file, select "Rename...", and type the new name. The ".doc" file extension isn't select by default, so it goes unaffected. In the rare case that I do want to rename a file, including the extension, I can easily manually select the extension as well. To do the same task in Windows, you must re-select the first part of the file name, manually excluding the file extension (which takes a fair amount of manual dexterity with a mouse) to avoid removing the file extension (Mac OS gets extra points here for avoiding file extensions where it can).

    Smart Screenshots

    In Mac OS X, when you take a screenshot, a PDF file is placed on the desktop. PDF is an awkward choice for a file format for a screenshot and if the desktop is obscured by windows, as it often is, then there is little feedback of where your screenshot has gone (though, to their credit, the camera-shutter sound is the best audio feedback of a screenshot on any platform). In Windows, the screenshot is sent to the clipboard, and then must be pasted into an application for use. Again, there is no feedback as to where your screenshot has gone.

    In Gnome, when you take a screenshot, you are greeted by a window with a preview of your screenshot with options to save it. You can also drag the preview from this window directly into an application (an image editing application, or into an email for an attachment). Nice.

    Don't Tie My Hands

    Using Windows Media Player, it is quite difficult to get a screenshot of a playing DVD. If you take a screenshot while a DVD is playing, you'll see a big empty black box where the movie should be. In order to overcome this issues, Totem, the movie player I'm using on Linux (which is a great, simple, media player - something that doesn't seem to exist on Windows) there is a tool built in to take screenshots of a playing movie. Under the "Edit" menu, select "Take Screenshot", and you'll be presented with a window much like

  15. Re:Ingrate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Can't something be flamebait and insightful?

  16. Re:Huh? by Audity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He never said you couldn't rename files in windows by right clicking-them. The point was that there's a "feature" in windows and OS X that allows you to rename files easily. The problem is it's too easy and gets triggered by accident often. Gnome doesn't have this problem (and niether does KDE).

  17. author is right, but he doesn't know it by dont_think_twice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article does show why linux is more user-friendly than windows, but not in the way that the author intends.

    He claims that file-renaming is better in nautilus because the only way to do it is through a context menu, and furthermore, the filename without extension is highlighted by default. Personally, I find both of those "features" terribly annoying. Quite often, all I want to do is change the extension on a file. Nautilus' behavior makes this much harder than it is in windows.

    But the great thing is that there are plenty of file managers for linux, and even plenty built specifically for gnome. So I just use a different one that I like better. Choice is what makes linux better than windows, not the default behavior of one app.

  18. WMP by dancingmad · · Score: 5, Informative

    Using Windows Media Player, it is quite difficult to get a screenshot of a playing DVD. If you take a screenshot while a DVD is playing, you'll see a big empty black box where the movie should be.

    I'm no fan of WMP (I use BS Player or Windows Media Player Classic) but it's easy enough to get a screenshot from it, just turn down hardware acceleration.

    --
    "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
  19. Some irritating glitches too... by Tord · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I use Gnome every day at work and while there is much about the environment to love, there are also some really anoying glitches that I don't understand why they haven't been addressed allready. A few examples:

    1. You can easily create or install themes by clicking your way through or drag-n-drop, but there is no apparent way of REMOVING a theme.

    2. You can't change the location a launcher or shortcut points to once you have created it. That's irritating if you just needed to move the file or rename one folder in a long path and don't want to go through the hassle of creating a new launcher, name it and select icon from a long list again.

    3. You can drag-n-drop emblems onto icons from the sidebar, but you can't remove them in the same easy way. To do that you need to right-click the icon and go into a totally different dialogue.

    4. View files as a list in Nautilus and there is no way you can right-click on the background to get the context menu in order to for example add a folder. You then have to do it through the top-of-window menu instead.

    5. Listview in Nautilus again: you can't drag-n-drop a file from another window without dropping it onto an entry.

    6. There is no way you can change the permissions or emblems of multiple selected files in one go from Nautilus. You have to address them one by one.

    Just like Gnome's small features really adds to the experience, these small glitches really destroys it too when you run into them. Gnome is my prefered environment though, here's to hoping that some of these gets fixed in the next release...

    1. Re:Some irritating glitches too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      1. You can easily create or install themes by clicking your way through or drag-n-drop, but there is no apparent way of REMOVING a theme.

      Theme Details -> Go to Theme Folder [file manager opens ~/.themes], and delete what you don't want. Granted it's not as easy as selecting or editing themes, but normal people aren't going to be adding/deleting themes themselves anyway, so it's not important to make it idiot proof. Themes are available as packages and are installed/un-installed through the package manager.

      2. You can't change the location a launcher or shortcut points to once you have created it. That's irritating if you just needed to move the file or rename one folder in a long path and don't want to go through the hassle of creating a new launcher, name it and select icon from a long list again.

      That's not exactly what I would call "a glitch", it's an enhancement, but yes it would be nice to have.

      3. You can drag-n-drop emblems onto icons from the sidebar, but you can't remove them in the same easy way. To do that you need to right-click the icon and go into a totally different dialogue.

      Again... that is not a glitch, it's something that should be worked on. But it's hardly priority considering how often people use the emblem functionality.

      4. View files as a list in Nautilus and there is no way you can right-click on the background to get the context menu in order to for example add a folder. You then have to do it through the top-of-window menu instead.

      This is fixed in 2.5/2.6.

      5. Listview in Nautilus again: you can't drag-n-drop a file from another window without dropping it onto an entry.

      Ditto.


      6. There is no way you can change the permissions or emblems of multiple selected files in one go from Nautilus. You have to address them one by one.

      Huh? Yes you can, in the current stable version (2.4) and beyond: select the files you want to change the permissions/emblems of, right-click -> Properties, change the permissions/emblems to what you want. Done.

  20. Cut and paste are not mentioned. by mrmeval · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm using stock Redhat 9

    I do not understand why cut and paste cannot be corrected. If a program is closed, what was just copied from it disappears from the buffer. Some programs can only do middle mouse button and others it's only via keyboard, some only from the menu some will do it from the right mouse.

    Some of this is the application programmers fault and some is the window manager.

    Other problems, why are programmers allowed to restrict what window functions I am allowed. If I want it to be minimized I want it minimized. I've seen this done on Gaim's away screen and it's very annoying. I would like to disable an application programmers access to these things either permanently or via user settable controls.

    --
    I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    1. Re:Cut and paste are not mentioned. by steveha · · Score: 4, Informative

      I do not understand why cut and paste cannot be corrected. If a program is closed, what was just copied from it disappears from the buffer.

      This falls out from the way X was designed. I agree it's annoying. There is a fix now:

      http://members.chello.nl/~h.lai/gnome-clipboard-da emon/index.html

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  21. No simple media player? by TwistedSquare · · Score: 4, Informative
    The author seems to take time out from discussing the GUI to mention:

    ...(which is a great, simple, media player - something that doesn't seem to exist on Windows)

    To which I retort: BS Player. And his points about screenshots could easily be combined, I'm not seeing much content in the article to be honest.

  22. Re:Ingrate by Visceral+Monkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    Certainly. You've just described 99% of the articles posted on /.

    --
    *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.*
  23. I'm not so sure about some of those niceties. by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Interesting
    While the guy has some good points, he has others that I wouldn't necessarily agree with. Taken as a whole I'd say that GNOME had improved in comparison to itself, but its still a mixed bag, like all the other OSes.

    For instance, he said:
    Gnome, and the Nautilus file manager (the equivalent of Windows Explorer or Mac OS Finder) allows you to rename files only by right-clickling and choosing "Rename..." from the context-menu.

    This is not intuitive at all. While most of us would try the right-click eventually, there is no reason to go looking Rename there, except out of habit. If anything Rename deserves its own spot in the Edit menu. He also neglects Mac OS X Panther's 'gear' button, which is a nice approach - click file, then the gear to perform any kind of file manipulation. That is consistent. Right-click is for shortcuts but should never be the sole way of getting to a function. I do also agree with having only the filename before the suffic highlighted - I've noticed some apps do this for you and others don't, on the Mac anyways.

    In Mac OS X, when you take a screenshot, a PDF file is placed on the desktop. PDF is an awkward choice for a file format for a screenshot and if the desktop is obscured by windows, as it often is, then there is little feedback of where your screenshot has gone...

    This is true, although a slight modification of that same keyboard shortcut will capture to the clipboard, and gives you the same deal (and you can re-assign it). The GNOME minipreview thing sounds cool though. Windows would beat everything here if they would finally just rename PrtScrn to 'Screen Capture Button', and added a feedback sound.

    The DVD capture thing is interesting, I haven't tried it yet. Would it not be different depending on video hardware? (I remember Mac ATI cards would do the solid-colour-overlay thing while nVidia cards could capture DVD frames just fine.)

    While browsing font files (TrueType, OpenType, etc.) in Nautilus, the file icons are replaced with a small preview of the font. Very handy when you're browsing for a particular font

    A neat trick, but not even remotely handy. This is no way to browse fonts, looking at just an upper and lower-case A, in a 32x32 (or whatever) size. OS X has this one hands-down. Double-click a font and you get the whole repertoire, with a button that says 'Install Font' below it. It even asks you if you want to install for just this user, or all users.

    Now when I'm browing files, especially image files, on either Windows XP or Mac OS X, I find myself looking for the zoom controls - a good sign that Nautilus does it right.

    Not to be coy but this is only a good sign that you are used to GNOME. :)

    I do think that GNOME is pretty much in WinXP territory as far as usability, and you can take that as you will. Its a good thing, really... if they're starting to focus on things like font support and workflow, they may start to eclipse Redmond.

    Really I want GNOME to take a page from the design of Apple's Safari browser. Make it clean, elegant, simple, powerful. Do not load it with features. Don't copy features, invent better ones. This is how GNOME will find more diverse users. I worry that with all the propellerhead demand for things like (ugh) themes, the simple and elegant approach will often get lost.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  24. So by sulli · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can I copy and paste between apps now?

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
  25. Windows and Mac by ninejaguar · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Whether true or not, Gnome and KDE have the appearance of playing catch-up with Windows. I understand that between Windows and the Mac GUI, Windows has the larger market share. But, the Mac interface has always garnered the higher praise for all sort of criteria such as ease of use/utility, eye candy/asthetics...etc. The disparity in the two system's marketshare may have more to do with the fact Apple requires you to buy their hardware to use MacOS, and Microsoft doesn't. In hindsite, I wonder if MacOS would've been comptetive against Windows without Apple's hardware sale requirement.

    It's curious that Gnome and KDE based their GUI design template on Windows and not the Mac. Clearly, they're basing their design decisions on bringing a Free Windows to the masses, not a Free MacOS. This may very well be because the developers were more familiar with Windows as opposed to MacOS, but was it the better decision? Or, is it possible that the distinction between Windows and Mac are no longer as apparent as they were only a few years ago, and the Mac no longer has the lead as a better GUI?

    = 9J =

  26. Re:You said it by ubernostrum · · Score: 3, Informative

    That and weird little things like not being able to use wildcards in the file open dialog boxes.

    Yeah, that's real weird. In fact, I wonder why no-one's ever written a file manager that can select files based on regexes.

    Oh wait, somebody already did.

  27. Eat this KDE! by Lispy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Okok, I don't want to start a flamewar here, but I have come to love Gnome lately and I wouldn't trade it with KDE or, beware, Windows.I am using Dropline Gnome for Slackware Linux and I must say that it not only rocks in daily works but still gives me cheers from people that see it the first time when passing my desktop. It just looks cool a-n-d useable. Gnome is very clear and not overloaded with features. What's more, now that gtk+ 2.2 is stable and had all it's debugcode removed it became much faster. The lazy responsetimes I had expierenced a few months ago are now all gone. The whole Desktop feels very snappy and responsive. Partly due to Kernel 2.6 but still, Gnome really has matured. I only hope they fix the last remaining issues:
    - a dialup tool comparable to Kppp
    - a decent CD-Burner (there are some in development, I know...)
    - a powerful file-dialog (it got fixbroken lately but I hope for a complete overhaul)

    cu,
    Lispy

  28. lies by minus_273 · · Score: 3, Informative

    "In Mac OS X, when you take a screenshot, a PDF file is placed on the desktop. PDFis an awkward choice for a file format for a screenshot and if the desktop is obscured"

    As a open source developer who develops Cocoa apps on OSX, i regularly take screenshots of my apps and put them on sourceforge. Im not sure what OS this guy is using, i definetly take my screenshots as TIFF of Jpeg

    --
    The war with islam is a war on the beast
    The war on terror is a war for peace
  29. The source of those UI innovations by elflet · · Score: 5, Informative
    The author keeps using Nautilus to show the innovations in Gnome, and those innovations come back to one person -- Andy Hertzfeld. Andy was a member of the original Macintosh team, who wrote much of Quickdraw and several of the initial applications (including MacPaint). Later, he came up with an vastly improved version of the Finder and a version that handled multitasking natively (Switcher).

    Andy co-founded Eazel, and wrote much of Nautlius; all the UI touches mentioned feel like his handiwork.

  30. Re:Wrongo. by firewrought · · Score: 4, Insightful
    How the heck is the user supposed to know that the menu is there, or how to get at it?

    The user is suppose to know that if he wants to do an unusual operation on any object, he can right click on it and get a full list of choices. I'll agree that this is not obvious the first time you use a computer, but "having a good UI" does not mean that "every user is able to use the software perfectly the first time he or she encounters it".

    Once the user has learned the technique, the context menu is a *much* better location for the renaming operation than the system-wide menu bar you propose. The problem w/the system-wide (or application-wide) menu bar is that it does not narrow down the number of choices based on context... to rename under this arrangement, I have to "select" the file (thus enabling "invisible" functionality elsewhere), than I have to search the menus for a rename operation, and that's very costly. With the context menu, I know that my options just apply to the file I clicked on.

    Consider this... maximum visibilty would be a bunch of buttons popping up around the file whenever you hover over it. But this would be annoying. Making the user explicitly ask for the buttons to come up removes the annoyance while adding a small learning cost.

    But don't take my word for it... go conduct a usability test or look through the research to see what actually works for real users.

    --
    -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
  31. Put down the Mac and come out with your mind open by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 3, Informative

    Right-click to rename is the lessser of two evils as far as I'm concerened. Double-clicking the name to rename a file (like Windows and classic MacOS) is a bit more intuitive, but the annoyance of triggering a rename instead of a file open because your mouse was 3 pixels off more than offsets the benefit.

    "Right-click is for shortcuts but should never be the sole way of getting to a function."
    Too many years using a one-button mouse....

    "OS X has this one hands-down. Double-click a font and you get the whole repertoire, with a button that says 'Install Font' below it. It even asks you if you want to install for just this user, or all users."

    Have you even tried Gnome, or are you just flaming based on the screenshots? Double-clicking a font file shows a full preview as well.

    As for the browser, your hopes are too late. It's already been done. Epiphany is a simple interface with the useful features (like tabs) and none of the crap (like sidebars and themes) built on Mozilla's html renderer. It's quite nice. Of course, if your knowledge of the subject ran any deeper than looking at a few screenshots and posting a defensive rant about the superiority of MacOS, you would know that already.

    --
    0 1 - just my two bits
  32. Appearance only by bluGill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In appearance yes. Of course Windows is playing catch up with Mac by appearance.

    KDE has many features that windows just doesn't have, or has but doesn't get right. (I don't use GNOME, but I assume it is in a similar situation)

    Just in the main browser interface, IE doesn't have pop up blocking, nor is their spell check of web forms. Virtual desktops are still not shiped with windows (despite being a feature of X11 window mangers since I first saw it back in 1993...), and handy to have. Nor is my favorite: focus follows mouse available. Sure you might not like some of them, but they handy to others, and features windows still doesn't have, in some cases more than 10 years after X11 had it.

    KDE/GNOME is playing catch up in some areas true, but in other areas they have gone far beyond windows, and windows isn't even trying to catch up as far as I can tell.

  33. Mouseover audio files by gyrojoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here's another neat thing in Nautilus that I've never seen anywhere else (Perhaps OS X has it, I've not use it much). When you mouseover an audio file, after a few seconds it will start to play. A bit like an image preview for audio files.

  34. Re:Huh? by PaulK · · Score: 4, Informative

    As someone who has done retail computer service since the early eighties, let me point out that MS-FUD is not an issue here. This is a real problem.

    I have seen quite a few machines where windows wouldn't boot due to accidental file renaming, and quite a few from deliberate renaming through ignorance.

    When the problem is pointed out, the response has pretty much the same: "Why does it let me do it, then?" or "Why is it so easy to do if it's wrong?"

    I've also seen systems where children have done dramatic file renaming, because it's easily within their grasp.

    Granted, this is not a huge problem, but it is consistant. More common is the bulk movement of system files via drag & drop.

    From a technical standpoint, the double-click rename "feature" is actually a weak point in longterm system security/stability.

  35. My favorite niceity by battery841 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I heard about this on IRC and it worked! Go into Nautilus and load a directory in the list view. I think you hit Control F, however I don't remember the keybinding exactly. A small input box will appear at the bottom right of the window. Start typing and it will act as the autosearch in emacs/Mozilla. This works in any ListView in GNOME.

  36. You've mentioned ONE technical problem... by IANAAC · · Score: 4, Insightful
    that being the digital camera support issue.

    Each of your other points are really subjective. Your use of words like "non-retarded", "not designed by a GIMP", "I waste my time looking for 'skins' that were designed by adults" and "having to dick around with font settings" confirms that.

    Maybe if you'd stick to technical reasons (not to mention the appropriate environment - Gnome, not KDE - we'd be more inclined to take you seriously.

    1. Re:You've mentioned ONE technical problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      " I'll be honest, I really couldn't care less if I'm taken seriously by the Slashdot collective, as any technical issues I could come up with would be almost certainly brushed off by a group who has an agenda to fulfill at all costs. That is, in short, "Linux roolz"."

      On the other hand, it's just possible you're incapable of grasping that millions of people are quite happy, efficient and adept at using the software you disdain in spite of your authoritative opinion. When they disagree with your assertions that they're not, you pidgeon hole them as fan boys and adolescents and compound it by getting your panties in a knot when that upsets them too. What do you expect by coming on a Linux-centric forum shit-talking Linux, the hushed admiration of the throng of newly enlightened and a laurel wreath?

  37. We're working on it by dspeyer · · Score: 4, Informative
    Check out the work in progress on it. It's quite usable, but we're still adding features.

    The fealing on the GTK list seems to be that there's a need for an entire new widget GtkFileChooser, and programs will eventually convert to this new API. IMHO, this is a very bad idea, as the oldstyle will never really go away any more than the win3.1 style has in the windows world. I think we ought to just add the new features and protect future APIs with preprocessor flags. Code for that might look like:

    fs=gtk_file_selecter_new(_("Open File..."));
    #ifdef _GTK_FILE_SELECTER_IS_EXTENDED
    gtk_file_selecter_prepend_filter ("<Fonts>*.ttf/*.pcf");
    #endif /*_GTK_FILE_SELECTER_IS_EXTENDED*/
    But that's for later. For now, the code that's up there works, and it might make your GTK-related life a lot more pleasant
    --

    Sig:Why copyright isn't a fundamental human right

  38. Re:Wrongo. by Mikey-San · · Score: 3, Informative

    Can't believe this got insightful moderations.

    If you click on the icon, it highlights. That's it. If you click on the name, you can edit the name. There's more than one thing you can do, here, because the icon and the name are separate objects, when you think about it. (Ever renamed an icon? No, you rename the icon's name.)

    If you click on the name and then decide you want to move it, you can still drag the icon to wherever you want it to go. Furthermore, if you highlight the icon and hit return, you can begin editing the name.

    If you control/right-click on an icon name, you get the same contextual menu that you see when you do the same on the icon. And yes, if you click and HOLD on an icon name, you can drag the icon normally.

    Let's recap:

    1. Click on the name to rename.
    2. Click on the icon to highlight.
    3. Press return while the icon is highlighted to rename.
    4. Click and hold on the icon or the name to drag the icon.
    5. Control/right-click on either the icon or the icon name to see a contextual menu of frequently used commands related specifically to that item type.

    This seems pretty goddamned good to me. You get complete functionality without a lot to think about. It's been this way for years, and we Mac users seem happy with it. How is right-clicking and selecting "Rename" any better than just clicking the frickin' icon name and typing away?

    --
    Mikey-San
    Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
  39. Gnome's not so nice GUI... by kisielk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ever tried to use a Gnome app over an SSH tunnel? I have tried running PAN and Gaim from school by SSH'ing in to my home computer, and it's unbearably slow. It can take up to a minute to redraw the headers pane in PAN, because for some reason it slowly draws each header bit by bit.. you can actually see them refreshing slowly.

    As an experiment, I tried running some KDE apps over the same connection, and KNode refreshes its whole window nearly as fast as when I use it on my local machine.

    Now, I'm not writing this to rag on Gnome or its apps, because quite frankly I think PAN is the better news reader, and Gaim is my IM client of choice, it's just that for whatever reason they really suck over the network.

    I hope the Gnome developers don't forget that some people still like to run apps over a remote X connection.

  40. still sucks by coaxial · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This article just highlights that nothing really has changed in the Nautilus/Gnome world.

    Development on how to take 31337 screenshots is given a priority, when screenshots are taken often, if at all. (I think I've taken 1 in the past three years, and that was done with xv's "grab window".) Screenshots simply aren't something worth spending time on.

    Nautilus still sucks. Yea! It defaults to selecting everything before the extention! It STILL FOUR DAMN YEARS LATER doesn't support icon arranging. You either have them all messed up, or flush left in alphabetical order. What the hell? It still seems slow, and doesn't have decent plugins. I'm not a KDE guy, but Konqueror is heads and shoulders above Nautilus.

    Nautilus sucks and needs to be replaced. Hopefully Velocity or Endeavour2 will mature enough to actually replace that dog.