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Worried about Digital Evidence Tampering?

2marcus writes "As digital technology continues to improve and is used in more and more applications, the ease of tampering with digital files becomes more pertinent. This is especially important in the field of criminal justice, where even the appearance of possible impropriety can sway a jury. CNN has an article on the issues with digital photos being used for fingerprints and other forensics evidence."

87 of 292 comments (clear)

  1. Only solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    make digital evidence inadmissable. Photoshopping/gimping/email fraud/video editing is becoming too easy and too difficult to trace.

    1. Re:Only solution by metallicagoaltender · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uhhhhh...you just made it next to impossible to prosecute a lot of crimes. Take kiddie porn for example - you're saying that a hard drive full of kiddie porn images shouldn't be admissable?

      Please clarify your point, because you either didn't think your comment through, or meant something entirely different than what you wrote.

    2. Re:Only solution by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With our society relying on more digitized information all the time, it is not practical to make it all inadmissable as evidence. There's no way in the world that you could prosecute computer crime or for that matter almost any fraud without digital evidence. As for the photo example, non digital photos can be doctored as well. For example, you could doctor a photo digitally, recapture the picture with film and develop the non-digital photo of the digitally altered image. If its done well, it would be very hard to detect. Bottom line is, we need better evidence authentication, not exclusion of all digital evidence.

    3. Re:Only solution by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Possibly, here's one expensive solution. Some solid state memory card company should start making write once memory that would work in a digital camera. Along with the image would be an md5 sum.

      Then the images could be copied to cdrom along with the md5 sums. If the defense feels that the images have been tampered with, they can always be verified against the md5sum and then if so, the archived memory card.

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
    4. Re:Only solution by JoeBuck · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not hard for experts to detect Photoshop fakery, even if amateurs can be fooled. If you move objects around in the picture, you'll never be able to get every cast shadow right, or get the lighting of the removed objects right. The analysis process that the experts use is analogous to ray tracing run backwards: given the images, figure out where the lighting is. Then boundaries between regions that have been altered and regions that have not come out clearly.

      Furthermore, as its name implies, many of the Photoshop tools correspond to tricks that photographers have traditionally played in darkrooms, it just makes it easier.

    5. Re:Only solution by micromoog · · Score: 4, Funny

      Your solution is entirely too concise, simple, and complete. Law enforcement will never go for it.

    6. Re:Only solution by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some solid state memory card company should start making write once memory that would work in a digital camera.

      Unfortunately the benefits of the digital camera are lost then. If I wanted write once media, I would use film. On the other hand, I see where your trying to go with this in setting up a tamper resistant protection scheme. Even so, one could still do some elaborate tampering to bypass security methods. They'd almost have to do it, just for the challenge. Look at all the protection schemes people have developed in the past, only to be thwarted by a teenager with a bit of time on their hands.

    7. Re:Only solution by Nurseman · · Score: 2, Interesting
      And what if that hard drive full of kiddie images are 100% fake?

      I seem to recall a case where this issue came up. The guy had a bunch of drawings and computer generated kiddie porn, and he was convicted and upheld on appeal. Even though his lawyer was able to prove there were no "actual" children harmed, he was convicted on something like "attempted child endangerment". I wish I could recall he details.

      --
      Save a Life. Donate Blood. Please.
    8. Re:Only solution by jandrese · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The thing is, if someone can tamper with the image, they can tamper with the md5sum as well. In your solution, the md5sum is useless, it's the write only memory on the camera that is actually providing your security.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    9. Re:Only solution by guacamolefoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not hard for experts to detect Photoshop fakery, even if amateurs can be fooled.

      I work in wholesale justice -- I do a lot of court-appointed work. There is no way that an expert will be approved in every case to authenticate or detect alterations of digital images. At the basic level of the legal system, the people who most need this sort of protection (accused criminals) will not be able to afford it.

      I like the idea of digital photographs with some sort of cryptographic self-authentication. It would reduce the risk of cowboy cops faking evidence and putting it over on juries and judges. Someone needs to police the police, and this might help.

      GF.

    10. Re:Only solution by BitterOak · · Score: 2, Informative
      The U.S. Supreme Court overruled this a year or so ago. I don't have a reference handy, but I think it was a 6-3 decision, ruling that virtual kidde porn is protected by the First Amendment. Justice Thomas did say in a separate concurring opinion that if virtual kiddie porn ever became indistinguishable from the real thing that perhaps that rule should change, but the rest of the majority (5-4) didn't even leave that option open.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    11. Re:Only solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      Make digital evidence inadmissable

      No, just the opposite. I want more police departments using digital photographs. My girlfriend works in a 1 hour photo lab. She processes countless rolls of police evidence.

      My biggest complaint is that she, making all of $6/hr, is exposed to some pretty gruesome pictures (You don't ever want to see some of the closeups.) We don't live in the boondocks, either. We live in a decent sized metro-detroit city, though it won't appear on any national maps.

      It also pisses me off that so much money is wasted on these photographs. For a small investment, they could have digital cameras and a projector in the courtroom. There's no reason to print all 200 images on the same scene.

      The last thing is that few people realize how likely it is for whole batches of negatives to get ruined. Those machines are far from automated and the people operating them are far from professionally trained. One slip up and a whole murder case is screwed.

      /AC to protect the innocent
    12. Re:Only solution by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "It's not hard for experts to detect Photoshop fakery, even if amateurs can be fooled. If you move objects around in the picture, you'll never be able to get every cast shadow right, or get the lighting of the removed objects right."

      Sadly, 'experts' proved that the moon landing was faked, too. Shadows cannot be easily disproven because of things that are happening off-camera.

      The best you can do is detect use of a filter algorithm. Gaussian blur, for example, should be easy to detect. Clone tool? You betcha. It could take a bit, but images are inherently noisy. If the noise in the image has repeatable patterns, then use of the clone tool can be detected. Most digital images are sharpened by the camera. Changes that aren't sharpened can be detected.

      I could probably think of more ways to detect digital fraud, but I think I've satisfactorally made my point. The fact of the matter is that we are not close enough to making changes undetectable. Just because the tools to make the changes get fancier does not mean that the tools to detect that fanciness just sit there and don't evolve.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    13. Re:Only solution by JimBobJoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      you're saying that a hard drive full of kiddie porn images shouldn't be admissable?


      There are quite a lot of issues with kiddie porn prosecution.

      So I read about this article saying they got person X on kiddie porn charges, and yet I wonder how much of that is real kiddie porn, as opposed to

      *photoshopped kiddie porn
      *18 and over porn, but with really young looking girls

      the latter is of interest to me, there's a lot of really young looking girls used in porn, and I assume that the photographer and webmasters have done their duty to make sure the person is 18. However, those credentials don't pass over the net to the photo sitting on the hard drive, how does law enforcement know or not know if the girl really is over 18, though she could pass for 14?

      As for the former, the idea of photoshopped kiddie porn is that it's kiddie porn without, hyptohetically speaking, having hurt a chlid in the process. Should that be illegal in that a person who consumed photoshopped kiddie porn is very likely to commit such an act? That's an ugly precedent.

      Of course, this doesn't even touch the surface of what the difference is between kiddie porn and children who happen not to have any clothes on. Apparently the standard is some sorta fuzzy concept of one type of pic was taken specifically for the purpose of getting off, and the other was not.

      Really odd case from Australia: a guy there makes videos of himself getting kicked in the jewels--that's the sexual fetish. He made one of a 14 year old kicking him, and was brought in on kiddie porn charges (though the girl was completely clothed.) The idea here is that a girl was being used for sexual satisfaction, though, under normal circumstances, it hardly is a sexual situation. (Dunno what happened to the case.)

      Honestly, this is a mine field of questions that no one wants to talk about or answer.

    14. Re:Only solution by chadjg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am not sure that manipulation in post is, or ever will be the biggest threat from a dishonest cop. The biggest threat is what the person chooses to put in the video or image, and what is framed out. But everyone knows this, right?

      My job is editing video. the only tool I have is Final Cut Pro. Sometimes a person on a program will say something wrong, make a mistake, or I just need to cut for time. I have to make choices all the time about what to cut, and the most difficult thing is often preserving good grammar and the original sense of what the person was saying. Gatekeeping and simple editing are huge, and can't be detected at all if everyone keeps their mouth shut.

      More on point, seamless, untraceable sound editing can be done right now and cheaply. I have made someone "say" they were in one town, when they originally said they were in another. I wasn't sure if I had it right until I ran the edit past my boss and he said "what edit?" That's with the primitive sound editing tools built into FCP. That's today!

      Obviously it's going to be difficult to put an AK-47 into the hands of a person that really was carrying a beach ball. Manipulation doesn't have to be that obvious. What about changing a single letter on a license plate, or making painting an inconvenient bullet hole out of a wall? I submit that stuff like that can and is being done. Take Hollywood, for instance. OK, they put out 90% crap, but their fakery skills are unmatched, and they are for hire.

      It isn't difficult to notice low grade Photoshop chicanery. My brother showed me some of his work in a printed magazine and said to point out the fake. It took me just seconds. He had put a guy in a group photo that was never in that room. That was a rush job in a low resolution printed picture, but it got past his bosses and the audience. Photoshop isn't my area, (yet, hopefully,) but I bet an expert could blow simple manipulations past anyone, everytime.

      This ignores your more cryptographic honesty helpers, somebody else is probably going to talk about that at length.

      The above, parent post is right, I think. Dot it right and nobody will notice. If you don't notice, what's the chance of doubting it?

      Personally, I only trust pictures and audio to the degree that I trust the person that made them and everyone downstream from the creator. Luckily most people are too lazy to make a really good fake.

      --
      Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
    15. Re:Only solution by vDave420 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Uhhhhh...you just made it next to impossible to prosecute a lot of crimes. Take kiddie porn for example - you're saying that a hard drive full of kiddie porn images shouldn't be admissable?

      Damn Straight!!!

      When it is not possible to prove that a crime was committed, how can it be reasonable to advocate prosecution of said "crime"?

      Isn't that just asking for abuse?

      Disassociate the REAL issue (lack of provability) with the EMOTIONAL plea (save the children, stop kiddy porn).

      -dave-


      PS:
      Do you advocate Illegalizing the Hollywood movie industry? After all, since "consuming Kiddyporn leads to child abuse" (hence its need to be illegalized), doesn't consuming visual violence, abuse, and nudity do the same, leading to physical and mental abuse?

      If not, you are as hypocritical as everyone else who arbitrarily supports "save the kids"-style legislation. The same rationalization applies in both cases.
      I bet you think the USA-PATRIOT act is a good idea, too! =)


      Those who would trade essential freedoms for temporary, illusory, "children's safety" will receive neither, and deserve naught!!

      --
      The pig browse. With Google. Sigh is to the chicken. Chicken is fool. Giggle. The DailyWTF giggle.
    16. Re:Only solution by jtriska · · Score: 2, Informative
      Well, what if someone like a Matte Painter tampered with the image?

      This is an original plate photograph that is handed to the Matte Painter.

      And this is what he's done with it.

      Matte Painters are extremely good at this, and have an amazing amount of knowledge about light and how it works on various surfaces.

      I really wonder how far such a painting would go in fooling an "expert" given its painted by an expert in the first place.

  2. This shouldn't change anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There has always been the possibility that the evidence could have been tampered with before. Since it is digital this only makes it slightly easier to do. It shouldn't matter however because it is always based on the honesty of the law enforcement official to do what is right.

    1. Re:This shouldn't change anything by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2, Funny

      There has always been the possibility that the evidence could have been tampered with before. Since it is digital this only makes it slightly easier to do.

      Slightly? Right now, I can take a picture of myself and make it look like I'm drinking a beer with Bill Clinton and George W. Bush while we all sit around a table at a titty bar. This wasn't possible 30 years ago.

      It shouldn't matter however because it is always based on the honesty of the law enforcement official to do what is right.

      Law enforcement can not be trusted. They are people, and no matter what the occupation or field of employment a certain percentage of them will be corruptable. I am not willing to risk my freedom on the honesty of people that have already shown me that they are dishonest.

      The OJ Simpson trial is something that people love to point to when talking about the failure of our criminal justice system, I point to that same trial to illustrate how police can not be trusted.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    2. Re:This shouldn't change anything by Hagakure · · Score: 2, Funny

      isn't that followed by...

      "If Chewbacca lives on Endor YOU MUST ACQUIT!"

      --


      If this is Heaven I'm bailin out! I cant tolerate this ol tin-tub, so fulla trash and rats...
    3. Re:This shouldn't change anything by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Informative
      Slightly? Right now, I can take a picture of myself and make it look like I'm drinking a beer with Bill Clinton and George W. Bush while we all sit around a table at a titty bar. This wasn't possible 30 years ago.
      Erm, the old Soviet Union (no jokes please) used to play these kinds of stunt all the time, adding people to pictures where they weren't there, and removing them when they were. Airbrushing and other techniques date back to Stalin, and probably earlier.

      Sure, it's a little easier, but it's not something we suddenly can do that we weren't able to do previously.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:This shouldn't change anything by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So what you're saying is that one of the most powerful governments on the planet (30 years ago) could do things that lay people such as myself can do today...

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  3. maybe someone should write a book by B3ryllium · · Score: 3, Funny

    "How to commit the perfect murder, using Microsoft's debug.exe"

  4. Someone has tampered with this article! by heironymouscoward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It was supposed to be about the upcoming Snorx/3.2 window manager! You can't trust any sources any more.

    Seriously, this has been coming for a long time and there is plenty of material about the impact of a totally digital, totally manipulable reality in the SciFi archives.

    It's a cycle anyhow. Eventually paper and touch will become valuable again because they mean something. Anyone want to buy a signed printout of this comment? Only $0.02!

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
  5. Chain of custody by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Any form of physical evidence can be tampered with. That's why the chain of custody is such an important concept. Everybody who had control of that evidence from the point it was discovered to the courtroom needs to testify that they didn't nothing funny, and they saw to it that nobody else did anything funny. That makes tampered evidence just as bad as any other lie to the court, somebody's on the hook for perjury.

    1. Re:Chain of custody by rotomonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

      Any form of physical evidence can be tampered with. That's why the chain of custody is such an important concept.

      That is also why I applaud the Oregon State Police's efforts at ensuring chain of custody by keeping an encrypted version of the original image locked away on CD. It also makes any mods reproducible in front of a jury, if necessary.

      The potential for modification doesn't scare me as much as the ability to permanently archive evidence. I can go back to a negative shot in 1930 and print it (provided it hasn't decomposed too badly). Will the same be true of digital formats?

  6. I love it by DarkHand · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ahh, digital evidence tampering, where would I be without you! I was quite good a creating doctors office letterhead for getting out of school. :)

  7. Videos and photos by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 2, Funny

    We all know how convincing digitally altered photos or videos can be. I mean, what jury wouldn't be convinced that those dinosaurs in Jurassic park were real? They sure looked real to me.

  8. DIGITAL evidence ? by cwernli · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Heck, where I come from not even regular (=non-digital) photos et al. are admitted as evidence in court - because they are too easily tampered with.

    Basically only human intel is admitted as evidence (witnesses) - if you want to admit other evidence (such as footprints etc.) you show photos (as an illustration, not as the proof) of course, but _always_ backed up by witnesses (fellow officers, forensics guy) who could be called to testify under oath.

    1. Re:DIGITAL evidence ? by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can prove through cryptographic means, md5 sums, etc, that the odds a digital file has been tampered with are billions-to-one. Some cameras designed for LEOs have such stuff built in, you can prove that the file hasnt changed since the camera took it.

      With analog, you end up with a dozen 'experts' with magnifying glasses who cant decide if its bigfoot or a guy in a gorilla outfit.

      Besides, cases are built on actual physical evidence. That freak who kidnapped the little girl from the carwash will get the chair because of DNA and other evidence, not the surveillance footage.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  9. personally by Savatte · · Score: 2, Funny

    I try to hide the evidence after I tamper with my digits. The hamper is a good hiding place.

    Thank you. I'll be here till im modded down.

  10. Tamper vs Analyse by nuggz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, but then the question of "what is tampering".

    There are actually cases of people photoshopping fingerprints to "bring them out".

    Is that evidence tampering?
    What if they just use a large burn/dodge tool? what if they just use a small one?

    Where is the line?

  11. Fear of false tampering claims by astrashe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If tampering is possible, even if it's unlikely, there will always be an out for people who don't want to believe evidence.

    In practice, the rejection of valid evidence will probably be a bigger problem than the creation of invalid evidence.

  12. Easy Solution by hazman · · Score: 4, Funny

    Simply require all digital evidence to be encrypted. That way anybody who has a thought of tampering would have to consider the wrath of DMCA.

    Nobody would tamper with digital evidence given THAT outcome.

  13. DRM? by onyxruby · · Score: 3, Funny

    Have we finally found a legitimate use for DRM?

    1. Re:DRM? by onyxruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, I found and read the article before slashdot posted a link to it. I also happen to know how tempting it could be for a lab tech to be told that the bad guy of the month could get off, and by the way just how clear can you make that photo with photoshop? It's ok to enhance a photo to give the cops a pointer on what direction to go in a case, as long as the enhanced photo isn't used for evidence. If you read the article you'll see they were talking specificly about enhancing photos that were to be used as evidence in trials. You did read the article, right?

      Someone who is highly skilled in photoshop can easily manipulate an image well enough that even people in the image can't quite tell what if anything is different. This is quite common with photos used for magazine covers, advertising and the like.

    2. Re:DRM? by Apreche · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It seems like it except for one thing. This isn't a digital rights management issue. While the technologies may be similar they are not for the same purpose. DRM is used to make sure that people who do not have a right to a piece of data are unable to access it. This is an issue of information assurance. You want to assure that the image originally taken by the digital camera is the same one that you are looking at in the courtroom. One possible way to do this is to apply DRM to the image, but that isn't necessarily a perfect solution. Someone who has the right to alter the image just might do it. If nobody has the right, what happens when somebody needs to enlarge it or change the color or something?

      --
      The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
  14. Be careful if you take (digital) pictures by 31415926535897 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My second-to-last year of college, I had signed a lease for a house just off campus for the next school year. It was looking forward to it because it was a nice house and I'd be rooming with my closest buddies.

    Unfortunately, when we went to move in, the place was trashed and grossly out of code for the city/county. In an effort to be released from the lease, I took a bunch of photographs of everything that was wrong with the house, but I took them on my digital camera. I even brought my camera to a developer and had the photos professionally developed.

    Nevertheless, I brought my pictures to a lawyer (school-subsidized, provided for student lessor/lessee problems) and he said that if I wanted to use them in any practical way, I had to go take the pictures again with a real camera (and you could _barely_ tell it was digital).

    Fortunately, we had enough evidence that the landlord caved (and we all learned many valuable lessons about leasing, and the law in that time period).

  15. Personally, I think that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny


    [This message has been deleted by the administrator]

  16. Who needs evidence? by SparafucileMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A huge swarth of people who get convicted for life or death are poor and stupid minorities who are sentenced with usually little more than one person saying "I swear I saw the defendent...sure it was dark but I swear it!" The criminal justice system in the country (U.S.) is in such a poor state that I don't see how digital evidence is such a huge step backwards. Do you really think it would have been easier to free (or convict) O.J. if the photos of the crimescene were digital?

  17. logs by LordMyren · · Score: 2, Interesting

    is there any way - besides dedicated locked up printers with numbered pages - that one can use to date and verify the authenticity of information? in such a way that will stand up at all in court? so far the only cheap way i know of verifying an idea is mailing it to yourself, but that requires going to the store for stamps... how 1998.

    Myren

    1. Re:logs by expro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Each camera would contain a tamperproof digital signature chip and a tamperproof clock.

      This seems a long ways away from being credible, because it does not take more than a few seconds to think of how to get around it. It is so easy to take a picture of another high-res picture that has been digitally created or modified. Of course, this could be done with a film-based camera, as well. Look all the UFOs people have on film with no digital photography required. Many years ago I knew a photo lab technician for a law firm that loved to dial in the magenta to make injuries look positively gruesome for juries.

      If the signing camera were permanently locked in a fixed place (like a police evidence room) with surveilance cameras that observed the photo shoot, and the camera took sequentially-numbered signed pictures, it would be a bit harder to falsify -- but it still seems like it might be like current digital voting -- more prone to undetectable error and fraud than existing technology. Adding secure GPS might help you slightly out of doors (I know of no other good way of securing the timestamp, either).

      When you get the negative of a film picture, it is usually between other pictures on a roll that to some extent establish a real time sequence greater than a single picture. Even this seems like better than time stamping.

  18. Seems kinda funny by onyxruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seems kinda funny, the more you know about technology, the less trusting of it you are. Seems a bit like long time cops that remain paranoid for years after leaving the job. Witness electronic voting regularly get scoured here, as do other forms of tech that are supposed to be accepted as "unquestionable".

    1. Re:Seems kinda funny by rewt66 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      No, it's because as you learn more about the technology, you learn that it isn't perfect. And this is a good thing.

      We need people who will look at the computers output and say, "That can't be right. I don't care if it came from the computer, it can't be right!" Like especially the doctor who is just about to remove a cancerous lymph node, and the computer is telling him/her to amputate your leg.

  19. Wrong by FreeUser · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There has always been the possibility that the evidence could have been tampered with before. Since it is digital this only makes it slightly easier to do. It shouldn't matter however because it is always based on the honesty of the law enforcement official to do what is right.

    Bullshit.

    This should matter a lot.

    Mark Furman's bigotry was enough to create the appearance of "reasonable" doubt as to the veracity of the DNA evidence that unequivocably linked O.J. Simpson to the murder of his ex wife and her friend. Nevermind that the evidence was almost certainly NOT tainted or modified ... the fact that the jury recognized (and weighed most heavilly) was that the honesty of the law enforcement offical(s) was in serious doubt ... and quite frankly, often is.

    Digital evidence is as fleeting as the wind. I can copy a file to your hard drive, make a phone call, and the assumption will be you're guilty. Or a cop could walk in with a CD, do the same thing, and convict you.

    Gnupg and similiar encryption tools, combined with date and time stamping (perhaps even authenticated date and time stamping via ntp servers) could be deployed relatively simply and make data tampering virtually impossible (e-mails are certain to be real, and have been created on such-and-such a date, etc).

    Similiar schemes might be applicable to preserving the integrity of digital imagry, video, etc., and it is very important that these issues be addressed.

    We know that the police and the FBI do tamper with evidence. We know that they bear false witness in court ... indeed, we even know of at least one case where the FBI insured that an innocent man was convicted of murder and sent to prison in order to protect their own informant.

    Law enforcement will tamper evidence on occasion, and making it easier for them to do so virtually insures that it will be tampered more often. In order to maintain (or even improve) the integrity of our justice system, we need to make modifying digital evidence as difficult (or impossible) as is possible, and we have numerous tools already to do so.

    Dismissing this issue is foolish ... unless you want a scenerio where any Jury with any technical knowhow whatsoever will always vote to acquit, on the grounds that digital evidence is no more valuable than a he-said/she-said argument.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:Wrong by angst_ridden_hipster · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Gnupg and similiar encryption tools, combined with date and time stamping (perhaps even authenticated date and time stamping via ntp servers) could be deployed relatively simply and make data tampering virtually impossible (e-mails are certain to be real, and have been created on such-and-such a date, etc).

      Ah, but they were written by someone who broke into your machine, used a keylogger to get your passphrase, and were sent by this other individual while you were out having a beer with your buddies.

      Sure, you have a good record that the email was sent at 8:30pm, but, then you can't really prove that you were at the corner bar at that time. After all, will the jury believe the testamony of your drinking buddies, or a cold, cryptographically-secure computer log?

      (Admittedly, this is less likely to be an issue in investigating a crime that has already been committed... but if it's a computer-related crime, the probability goes up.)

      --
      Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
      www.fogbound.net
    2. Re:Wrong by number11 · · Score: 5, Informative

      at least one case where the FBI insured that an innocent man was convicted of murder and sent to prison in order to protect their own informant.

      What case was that?


      Joseph Salvati ABC News

      A quick google turns up other probable cases.

      And it's not going to change until someone gets the guts to start bringing charges against cops and prosecutors who knowingly use false information, or withhold information.

  20. Digital Camera Manufacturers have thought of this by glaqua · · Score: 5, Informative
    Canon has a kit called "DVK-E1" that goes along with their EOS 1Ds camera, that they say is 'Available to verify that EOS 1Ds image files are absolutely unaltered". They have done this specifically for use in law enforcement. The details are buried in a Flash presentation. You can follow this link to find the details.

    So technology has answered, its back in the hands of law enforcement to present their case properly.

  21. It's only a matter of time by DRUNK_BEAR · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Currently, digital imaging may be considered a "new technology". It is obviously not known as well as traditional photography and it is a good thing that people question themselves as to regard the possible issues of such technology, especially if this technology is used in cases where it could make a difference between a guilty verdict and a non-guilty.

    At first, photography wasn't accepted right away, and it shouldn't have been. I mean, if I were to persuade you in trying my new revolutionary kind of car, which could put your life at risk, wouldn't you want to have enough details about the risks involved before making the decision of buying the vehicule? I sure would.

    --
    DrkBr
  22. partial answers to issues raisedin articles by mrhandstand · · Score: 4, Insightful
    changelogs

    modify ONLY copies

    originals all go onto read-only media

    checksum religiously


    WRITE GOOD POLICY for maintaining digital evidence...and post it before you start using digital media. Review it once a year, or more often to revise for unforeseen issues. Educate your detectives, and your Asst. DA's.

    Rinse, later, repeat.

    --
    Always value the individual over the system. --Bruce Lee "I don't need a Sig - I have a custom 191" - me
  23. Not a worry.. by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work in the field, I create and deploy records management systems for police.

    There's always an auditable chain of custody with all eveidence, digitally the product i use accomplishes it with encryptions and checksums. If an officer takes a pic out to alter it (they have to crop/lighten/darken mugshots so they look consistent for use in a lineup), his actions are logged, and a copy of the original is always kept. Just like checking stuff in and out of any CVS.

    There are some digicams out there specially designed for the task which create special checksums and hashes to prove, mathematically that the image on a disk is the same one the camera took.

    This is all tied to the officer who took the picture and entered it into the system, and ultimately would be held accountable for it.

    If needed, I could be called on to swear an affidavid that the file hadn't been altered since taken/entered.

    Now, for the most part, the agencies I've dealt with only use digital imagine for mugshots, and a few take digital shots of traffic accidents. But more and more are expanding the use of technology. 911 calls, and police radio chatter, being encoded to mp3 and permanently attached to the case file, stills from dashboard cameras, crime scene photos.

    Frankly, you can prove mathematically with some simple tech these days that not even a single pixel in a digital photograph had been altered. It'd much easier to fake an old-fashioned analog photograph.

    Of course, sleazy lawyers will wow clueless jury members with how easy it is to change things in photoshop, which they'll understand. And those jury members will be asleep when the mathemetician demonstrates that there's only a 1 in 400 kajillion chance of altering time image without changing the checksums...

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Not a worry.. by guacamolefoo · · Score: 2

      Of course, sleazy lawyers will wow clueless jury members with how easy it is to change things in photoshop, which they'll understand. And those jury members will be asleep when the mathemetician demonstrates that there's only a 1 in 400 kajillion chance of altering time image without changing the checksums...

      Of course, sleazy and/or simply lazy cops will still be able to lie under oath and have the juries believe them because they virtually always believe the cops.

      And the state will present as part of its case their expert who has testified 8,000 times that the chain of evidence is perfect and that they photos (or whatever) could not possibly have been altered. And the court appointed attorney who received the case won't be able to get the judge to approve an expert to testify in the case, because it costs too much money. "Besides," the judge will argue, "do you have any reason to believe that any of this stuff is faked? We've gone over this testimony 8,000 times in my courtroom and it's never worked. I don't have time for this. Have you seen my docket? Let's move on."

      Cops will get hip to this and start to realize that they can tighten up loose cases by faking things. And since nobody _really_ watches the cops, people will go to jail when the cops cut corners.

      You mentioned some steps that police have taken in your area. I like the sound of them as a start, but what I would like to see is for police to videotape everything that they do while in uniform, and I would like it to be discoverable under Right to Know type laws, undercover operations excepted. Cops should be forced to wear mini digicams on their badges to record everything. No more forced confessions, no more roughing up accused criminals, no more testilying about the case. If they're doing the right thing (and we _know_ that _all_ cops are great and its the lawyers who are dirtballs), then they have nothing to hide. We need someone to police the police.

      Do you know how many times I have heard the same testimony from cops about every DUI stop that they've ever done? Every crack deal shake down? The testimony, intentionally or not, ultimately boils down to a script that they have found to be effective in the cases on which they've presented testimony. They may vaguely remember details from cases that they've remembered from the report that they read two minutes before they took the stand, but to hear the telling on the witness stand, it's like it was yesterday.

      These meatheads probably can't tell you what they had for breakfast, but they can clearly remember what they did on their 343rd drug bust of their careers eight months ago when it goes to trial.

      It seems as though you've worked for law enforcement -- that is not inherently evil. Nor is being a defense attorney. Both callings are necessary in a free society. OTOH, cops are people too, and people everywhere are prone to cut corners and take the lazy way out. You must understand that, and you must understand that attorneys are trying to make sure that they system works. If my clients go to jail, fine. I'm not put out by that. I am put out if someone goes to jail and the state hasn't dotted its i's and crossed its t's.

      GF.

  24. Market opportunity... by BigBadBri · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I see an opportunity of an enterprising digital camera manufacturer here - Sony already do a DV camera that records to DVD - adding some tagging information (GPS coordinates + date/time + operators security code) to each image should be feasible, and given that one PD was saving $6000 per month in Polaroid costs, I'd have thought that even at $10K per throw, a high quality camera could be produced that would provide adequate traceability of the images taken.

    --
    oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
  25. Precedent Set by Common Sense? by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think anyone who knows ANYTHING about computers would tell you that there is no guarantee of security or stability.

    Lawmakers should take this into account and require the prosecution or plaintiff show beyond a reasonable doubt that the data can in fact be reasonably trusted and has not been handled by an untrusted or malicious party.

    Overall, this question raises a lot of issues. But I feel the courts need to decide on a set of guidelines that can be used to assure the jury and the defense that the evidence presented to support accusations can in fact be trusted.
    Because who's to say an overzaelous prosecuter didn't hire someone to "put" something on the suspect HD?

    But even then the courts might have a hard time ahead. Already we've seen cases that raise this question in which there can be no "safe-guard" and in fact the defense relies upon the exploitablity of software. This was demonstrated in the kiddie porn trial in the UK in which the defendant got aquitted because his lawyers successfully argued that a virus planted the porn on his PC.

    Ulitmately, it is double-sided issues such as this that are leading us down the path of Microsofts Secure Computing initiative. But that is a mission that is doomed from the start... history shows us that no matter how secure they make it, some one will break it.

  26. Witnesses by ParticleGirl · · Score: 4, Informative

    Witnesses credibility has been under debate for years. Witnesses can be influenced by suggestive questioning, their own backgrounds and prejudices, or the amount of sleep they have had on a given day. And how do you quantify or qualify that kind of tampering? Witness testimony has been used for millenia. No evidence is foolproof. The problem is 1. to know what kind of tampering can be done and be aware and wary of it and 2. to get the trust of the public in that type of evidence so it can be admitted, falible or not.

    --
    Do something about world hunger. Click here
  27. Digital sound evicence by Clarencex · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is another problem for concern in this area. Law enforcement personnel are now relying almost entirely on digital recording for witness statements and suspect interviews. If you think digital photos are easily tampered with, think about how easy it is to tamper with a WAV file. "I did not do it," can become "I did do it" with the flip of wrist.

    1. Re:Digital sound evicence by djh101010 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you think digital photos are easily tampered with, think about how easy it is to tamper with a WAV file. "I did not do it," can become "I did do it" with the flip of wrist.

      And yet, with a simple md5 checksum or any other of dozens of other techniques, such a change is impossible to make undetectable. The chain of evidence would need to show that at time of recording the md5 checksum of the file was 258c2891488526d239077559ae4fabab, and that the md5 checksum of the current file is still the same. Show the chain is intact, you've got that part of it covered. Get some mathematician to explain to the sheep of the jury that these are better odds than DNA, hell, call it "Digital Fingerprint" or something, and get on with the case.

      Demonstrate this, since they won't get it from the math guy, by taking an image, changing a single pixel, and recalculating the checksum showing that it changes entirely. Don't _tell_ them, _show_ them that if you change the digital information, the "Digital Fingerprint" changes drastically.

  28. Public Key Encryption by Detritus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've often thought it would be useful for digital cameras to provide an option of signing all images with a camera-specific private key stored in a tamper-resistant chip. That would allow third parties to verify that the image file had not been altered after the fact.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  29. Chain of Evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, law enforcement officers are required to maintain strict control and tracking of evidence now ("Chain of Evidence") to try and prove the evidence has not been tampered with. The mutability of digital records adds extra considerations, in some cases.

    One way of hardening the chain is to burn the digital record onto a CD-R, with a least two witnesses and recording the serial number of the CD-R onto the evidence log.

  30. How ironic... by Aardpig · · Score: 5, Interesting

    that CNN is publishing this story; back in the late 1990s, they stole a frame from one of my computer generated animations of a pulsating star, and put it in a story on their website. They tweaked the colourmap a little, but apart from that the image is identical to my original animations.

    They even had the gall to claim the copyright for themselves. Bastards.

    --
    Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
  31. Also, "ownership" of events by angst_ridden_hipster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We've already seen a few kiddie-porn cases in Great Britain thrown out because the machines had been compromised, thus making it impossible to conclusively prove that the individual arrested was responsible for the crime.

    But this points up a scary possibility, one which has already been hinted at in various places, which is that there's no robust trace of events. Once there's a backdoor in your system, there are a lot of things that can happen:

    - secrets can be observed.
    - "evidence" can be planted.
    - activities can be spoofed.

    Say you live under a repressive government, and somehow offend someone with 'l33t h@x0r skillz. You may find, for example, that you published a series of articles critical of the leadership. Yup, it came from your personalized copy of Word, and was sent from your IP address. If they've planted a keylogger, it could even be digitally signed with your PGP key. In a less oppressive environment, you might discover that you just mailed a collection of kiddie porn to the FBI.

    Now the person screwing you could be some vicious script kiddie, but there's also the potential for abuse in the political world. Like the case in Malaysia, where an opposition leader was tarred with a faked sex scandal, political operatives can be neutralized by opponents through these means (please don't let Karl Rove read this posting!).

    Scary stuff...

    --
    Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
    www.fogbound.net
  32. Your honor by mustangsal66 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I would like to subimt this photo into evidence. It clearly shows Bert and Ernie as the true culprits behind this heinous act!

    If the image don't fit you must acquit.

    --
    Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
    Sig changed for readability by G.W.
  33. Your Honor, the prosecution submits... by The+I+Shing · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your Honor, the prosecution submits to the court Exhibit B, a photograph of the shark in question attacking a man dangling from the helicopter.

    And here is Exhibit C, film footage where President Kennedy can clearly be seen saying "Congratulations, how does it feel to be an All-American?" to Forrest Gump.

    --
    You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
  34. Re:Nothing new here. Move along. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every time science comes up with a new form of evidence (or even a new way of analysing old techniques), someone gets convicted because of a persuasive argument which blinds the jury with science.

    It's happened with DNA, fingerprints, computer cracking.... Hopefully the technology is eventually ironed out such that this stops happening.]

    Meantime, this is cold comfort to victims of such miscarriages of justice, or their families.


    But it's two edged:

    DNA evidence is now being used to clear people who have spent decades in prison for crimes they didn't commit.

    At least if you have the death penalty the vctim of the miscarriage of justice (eventually) isn't in too much of a position to care.

    And it puts them beyond reach of ANY correction, when technology advances to the point where it can discover and prove their innocence, winning them release (and millions in restitution for the false imprisonment).

    See The Innocence Project for more.

    I, at least, am totally opposed to the death penalty. Not because the crooks don't deserve it - most of 'em do. But because it's administered by a government, with at least the usual levels of incompetence, corruption, and misuse for oppression of any government project.

    Mandatory life without parole has the advantage that you CAN bring somebody back if it turns out they were innocent. It's really hard to do that once they're dead. Also: It's cheaper, since you don't get as many appeals. And you don't get so many innocents plea-barganing themselves into long jail terms rather than risk death for a crime they didn't commit but can't prove it.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  35. veripic by caliento · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you are interested in verifying images I'd check out veripic. I don't know all the details behind it, but it seems like they are able to tell if the image has been modifed. From what I remember, the requirement is that you have to specify which digital camera it was taken with.

    http://www.veripic.com/certified

    My guess on how they do it would be by checking how the image was encoded? any ideas?

    1. Re:veripic by caliento · · Score: 2, Informative
    2. Re:veripic by JoeBuck · · Score: 2, Interesting

      An altered photograph will often be mathematically inconsistent. Real photos are formed by light sources reflecting and refracting off objects. Mess with it, and you create regions that have inconsistent lighting. Furthermore, Photoshop (or Gimp) tools have specific mathematical properties which can be detected; for example, if you use the Clone tool, there will be little circles of pixels that are highly correlated (not exactly because of the fuzzy edge of the brush). So, with an autocorrelation approach you can find, say, that a model's zit was painted out by cloning from another part of her face, and find exactly what part.

      I do not know that Veripic works this way, but I do know that forensic experts looking for altered digital pictures work this way.

  36. four words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    (referring to the parent post, not the grandparent): b b witch hunt.

    ok, so the FBI raids someone's PC on suspicion of kiddie porn. Now, the PC has been out of the hands of the suspect. What's to stop the FBI from planting kiddie porn on the hard drive? And will it, in the end, even be neccessary to find porn on the hard drive? Links might be enough (links that might have resulted from IE's insecurities, for example?) ... after all, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

    I truly despise child pornographers, but are we heading for a police state in the name of anti-terrorism and anti-kiddie porn?

    Maybe DRM actually makes sense in this context. I would rather be unable to get porn at all than be prosecuted for planted porn. (the OS could be programmed to reject any files that have porno-like meta-data in their headers, or however DRM works). Granted, this solution would keep all porn (including "legal" porn) out, but it would solve the problem.

    1. Re:four words by BitterOak · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Maybe DRM actually makes sense in this context. I would rather be unable to get porn at all than be prosecuted for planted porn. (the OS could be programmed to reject any files that have porno-like meta-data in their headers, or however DRM works).

      This is so obviously a troll, I'm tempted not to respond, but in case anyone takes this seriously, I'll pose the following obvious question. If someone were making kiddie porn for the purpose of selling or distributing it, why would they include metadata tags which would render the images unviewable on anyone's PC? So, we have yet another good reason for DRM: Think of the children!

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  37. Do you trust the system administrator? by MrNybbles · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So let's say someone breaks into the MegaCorp computer and causes billions of dollars in damage and causes a few powerplants to go off line in the East Coast of the US during a heatwave causing many people to die.

    Now let's say that the person who did this is found because he forgot to modify/erace the system logs and a criminal trial begins.

    Now let's also say he hires Jacky Childs as his lawyer who asks the system admins, under oath, if the system logs are nothing more than common text files. Then he asks if it is possible that any of the admins could log on and edit that text file log. Unless they got the logs being directed to a line printer an constantly printed out, Jacky Childs just found his reasonable doubt. Good luck with the civil suits!

    Seriously though, this could be a real problem one day soon.

    --
    Losing faith in humanity one person at a time.
    1. Re:Do you trust the system administrator? by MrNybbles · · Score: 2, Insightful
      First of all, I don't support the US Patriot act.

      Second, you seem a bit upset. Calm down. You got the point of the whole thing although you seem to be upset that in my scenario they cought the guy that did it. I only made the crime a severe one to give the trial importance. You seem to think I am saying something that I am not.

      Interesting that you bring up DNA. If enough criminals figure out how to harvest dna from like hospital medical waste or such and leaving it at crime scenes I could see Lawyers trying to get DNA inadmissible in court.

      About that last part you wrote Dave. How did we get from is the system admin trustworthy to evidence of an assassination on somebody's machine? Through worms and rooting machines files get dumped places all the time. However in court the word of a system admin and his logs is considered truth. This will likely change. Maybe it should change. Actually I probably should have brought this up in my origonal post. My bad.

      What if the admin used his job to alter the logs himself to hide a crime he committed? I have yet to meet an evil sys admin, but it could happen.

      Mrhandstand brought up some interesting software and ideas on how to do things, but a lawyer doesn't need to prove the system is flawed; he just needs to get one person on a jury to think it might be flawed.

      --
      Losing faith in humanity one person at a time.
  38. photographic evidence.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was told by a lawyer to get photographic evidence , not in digital, or film but Instant film format.

    Jury's, and judges consider the instant developed photos of the instamatic camera are considered unalterable because of how they are made /developed.

    usually the oldest technology is the most accepted in the court of law.

  39. We sell software by JohnnyGTO · · Score: 3, Informative

    at BrightNoise Inc that works with IP based cameras and video "servers" to stream images and detect motion, alarms, etc in sensitive areas . One of the biggest concerns I have had is tampering with jpegs or avi files exported from these softwares. AFAIK none has been challenged in a court of law here in the states, but we have had several schools and companies use it as proof of guilt for thieving and extortion!! The approach Milestone took was to make it exceedingly difficult to tamper with the original recording but allow exports. I train users to immediatly remove the original drives or enter server when there is an event of serious enough magnitude, lets face it whats a few thousand dollars when your talking about firing someone or worse? Personally I would like to see water marks or some embedded checksum in the images.

    --
    Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
  40. my company is dealing with this right now by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 2, Informative

    we have to scan lots of birth certificates. 7 million or so into single page tiffs.

    to make sure they are not altered, a MD5 checksum will be recorded at the time of scanning for each file. So, to verify later, you should be able to make sure the MD5s match.

    right?

    is there a better way?

  41. The scary part... by gillbates · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...original pictures of fingerprints and other evidence are encrypted so they can't be changed, and burned onto a CD, giving the lab the equivalent of a film negative to reference later.

    Um, yeah. Well, if they're encrypted, you either:

    • have the key and can change the image, or
    • don't have the key, and you can't see the image

    I think what he meant to say was checksummed and encrypted. While this does provide a reasonable degree of security against tampering, it in no way establishes that the pictures were real in the first place. It is a very trivial matter to write a CD today with a date of 01/01/1998.

    Yes, checksumming does provide a reasonable degree of security provided other safegaurds are taken. However, defeating this scheme is still too simple. Consider:

    • Murder takes place in 1998. Detective has a hunch that suspect X has done it, but can't prove it.
    • It's 2004 - suspect X is arrested on an unrelated charge, and fingerprinted.
    • Said detective takes pictures of X's fingerprints.
    • He then sets the clock on his PC back to 1998, a few days after the murder.
    • Then he downloads the fingerprints he's just photographed to the machine, and burns the photos to CD. When he's done, he sets the PC's date back to the current date.
    • Said detective files the freshly minted CD in the 1998 storage locker.
    A few days later, the detective suggests to his subordinate that he run X's fingerprints against the crime-scene database. Lo and behold! - suspect X's fingerprints match those found at the crime scene!

    Tell me I'm more secure now. Evidence fakery has been around since mankind learned to lie. The digital age just makes it more convenient.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  42. "Forget photographs as evidence of anything..." by dpbsmith · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...was, if I recall correctly, the headline on a story that appeared in Whole Earth Review in the 1980s. The article concerned Scitex's image-processing workstations, and their use to move pyramids on the cover of Time Magazine in order to achieve a more pleasing composition, to add or remove people from a picture, and so forth and so on. The cover, as I recall, showed a UFO landing on the street where Whole Earth's offices were located.

    Now we can do it with Photoshop Elements on a home computer.

    Yes, juries ''should'' be cautious in their approach toward photographic evidence. It was never true that "the camera doesn't lie," but the ease and inexpensiveness with which digital images can be altered certainly ought to alter the jury's Bayesian estimates of the likelihood that tampering could have occurred.

  43. Just because they CAN... by Frobozz0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think the public, as a whole, doesn't understand the real possibilities and liklihoods of digital tampering. It's like magic to some people because it can't be "seen" in many circumstances without a lot of frightenly intelligent people interpreting the evidence FOR them. That scares people, because people don't like what they don't understand. Period.

    If you asked the average juror what the signs of digital photo tamering are, they be baffled to answer. The bottom line is that this will be used by defense lawyers to plant the seed of doubt in otherwise ignorant minds (concerning digital media.)

    Just because it is (perhaps) easier to tamper with pixels than crystals on substrate, doesn't mean it's going to happen more often. Better yet, if people don't understand that digital evidence is subject, but not PRONE, to tampering this myth will continue to perpetuate.

    Maybe I'm wrong with my conclusion that it is not more likely, but it certainly isn't a new issue. In fact, I worries me that it's brought up in the context of a new issue because that just perpetuates a legacy of ignorance... and if you read the article you will find out that the issue is MUCH more a case of poor evidence. If the only evidence a prosecutor has is a previously unidentifyable fingerprint, and suddenly they can identify it, you're going to get skepticism. Furthermor, if that's the only evidence they had on the guy then there's no way you can prosecute on inconclusive evidence.

    The professor was able to reproduce the visual effect that occured when the scientific software processed the finger print. I hate to say it, but SO WHAT? I happen to be an experienced photoshop guy, and artist, but just because I can reproduce what I see, doesn't mean the scientific process involved is invalid. I'm concerned about this kind of defense approach, because it involves voodoo...

    I'd propose that a series of laws clearly define what is digitally permissable based on established algorthms. If a new one is created, it must pass through a panel of reviewers and eventually be passed into law before it can be permissable. In this way, there would be far less "reinvention of doubt" every time a digital photograph is brought into a court room that has a couple filters run on it.

    It would probably involve a series of check and balances at each stage of processing, too.

    --
    "Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
  44. Canon has a no-tampering digital photo kit by Kaa · · Score: 2, Informative

    Look here: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012903canondvk e2.asp

    Basically, the way it works is that the camera computes a cryptographically strong hash of the image file at the time the picture is taken and stores it on a tamper-proof secure card. The kit is specifically targeted at law enforcement.

    --

    Kaa
    Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
  45. DOJ likes DD for Drive imaging by R2.0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    NIST has a test spec for drive imaging software for forensic use.

    http://www.cftt.nist.gov/documents/Atlanta.pdf

    They have been testing a bunch of programs, and so far dd on Free BSD has performed best:

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/203095.htm

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
  46. Ignorance is bliss by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I recall reading an article about voting and what was good about it is that it talked about a lady who had volunteered to work the polls. She was shocked by the lack of training and the slipshod manner in which things were done. What was really interesting was that it was about regular old paper voting in the midst of all the diebold hysteria. Its not just about technology, its just knowing anything at all. Another example, during the whole mad-cow business in the US, a beef farmer said he has problem eating steak, but he wouldn't eat a slim jim "you don't know whats in there."

    I'm sure we all see/hear about this stuff while people close to us are complaining about their jobs. If we could only reduce screw ups by 5%, I imagine the world economy would take off.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  47. Of course... by Kjella · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...if you're playing the Devil's advocate and expect someone like the FBI to frame you, why wouldn't they replace the write-only chip? Simply duplicate all the MD5 sums except those you want to plant.

    Unless you want the camera to digitally sign them as well. Might work, if you have the secret key in a WOM not directly readable (i.e. you may sign the MD5 and verify the signature, but not read the actual key).

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  48. CD-R? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Informative
    What about writing to those Mini-CDRs? They have digital camcorders that write to Mini-DVD-R (Sony and DVD-RAM (Hitachi, Sony). I imagine Mini-DVDRs are a much better deal $$$ considering they're 1.47GB/disc and roughly 2 bucks a pop. 1.47 Gigs should go a long way, even on an extremely high end camera.

    The article does bring up a very good point:

    a negative shot on traditional 200-speed film can produce the equivalent of 18 megapixels of resolution. Only highly specialized, expensive digital cameras approach that now; most that consumers buy are less than 5 megapixels.
    1. Light ---> lens ---> Negative ---> Print.
    2. Light ---> CCD ---> Onboard Software ---> Writable Media ---> Computer.
    I'd rather the police go with choice #1 for the time being.
    And why aren't they buying their polaroid film from India?
    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  49. How to guarantee digital images are the real deal by Exocet · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012903canondvk e2.asp

    Canon has a "Data Verification Kit" (DVK-E2) for law enforcement and related types that worry about tampering.

    From DPReview's copy of Canon's press release, "The kit consists of a dedicated SM (secure mobile) card reader/writer and verification software. When the appropriate function (Personal Function 31) on the EOS-1D Mark II or EOS-1Ds is activated, a code based on the image contents is generated and appended to the image. When the image is viewed, the data verification software determines the code for the image and compares it with the attached code. If the image contents have been manipulated in any way, the codes will not match and the image cannot be verified as the original."

    So it looks like, when you combine the EOS-1D/1Ds w/ the "Secure Mobile" card and put the camera in to a special data verification mode, it probably generates a MD5 or similar hash for each image that is generated.

    This seems to be a fairly obvious way to defeat cries of tampering, although I have no idea how well this software/hardware has been pushed. Perhaps there is a hole somewhere? Hard to say. Hopefully Canon will release similar products for all of their higher-end (300D and up) cameras.

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    Exocet Industries - Taking over the world, one computer at a
  50. What it really comes down to by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    Is the same thing as with physical evidence: At some point, we have to trust our law enforcement. No matter what safeguards we put in place, they can be circumvented. So what we have to do is develop a system that is as good as possable and work with it. This should include all the facets of the physical system such as a complete chain of evidence, sworn statements, ability for indepentand reanaylsis, and then also new things like MD5 signing and such.

    But yes, ultimately, the police will be able to manufacture digital evidence, just as they can physical evidence. So we have to trust that they will do their job and that our system will ensure that. We then have checks in place (such as the police IAB and civilian review boards) to ensure that the trust is not misplaced.

    It's NOT perfect, unfortunately, but it really is the best we can do. Hence the reason criminal trails are to beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond any doubt. There is basically always some doubt. No matter how air-tight a case is, there is always the slim possibility that the whole thing is a huge snow-job and completely fabricated.

  51. Re:Do you know nothing about Technology? by HybridJeff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The media could always be replaced though, if someone had access to the device it was contianed within. Of course, some sort of tamper detection could be inscluded within the device itself. Since it would all come down to cost however, I beleive it would be extremely unlikely that any of these ideas ever get put into practice. Manufactures wouldnt take part unless required by law. The best solution would be to require a 3rd party observer (or someone representing the defence if possible) wheneever digital evidence is recorded.

  52. The real thing by SuperBanana · · Score: 2, Funny
    Erm, the old Soviet Union (no jokes please) used to play these kinds of stunt all the time, adding people to pictures where they weren't there, and removing them when they were. Airbrushing and other techniques date back to Stalin, and probably earlier.

    Actually, the KGB tended to prefer actually kidnapping you, drugging you, and actually sitting you down at a titty bar.

    It's a lot easier than airbrushing someone out, and impossible to disprove(whereas the airbrushed photos were usually very obviously airbrushed).

  53. Re:having porn is not against law by MrResistor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nope. We were talking technology. Not specifying country.

    No, we're talking about the legalities of digital evidence under US law.

    However i was talking this example to my friend, US based psychologist who is working for as an officially appointed expert. She said i would be probably OK. But she may be wrong, of course.

    There are a lot of viriables to consider, but here's the basic situation:

    If you never show those pictures to anyone else you would certainly be OK. Even if you did allow someone else to see them, you would probably still be OK, unless that person were EXTREMELY uptight and reported you. If you were to make them publicly available, like on the web for example, you would quite likely be arrested.

    If it went to trial, I'd say you'd have an even chance in general, but it would depend very much on the community from which the jury was drawn and the laws of that area. Standards and laws regarding decency, obsenity, pornography, etc vary wildly from state to state. Indeed, the legal definition of obscenity is based on the standards of the community.

    Age of consent is 15 in Czech and it is going to be lowered. It is as low as 12 in some European countries, including catholic Vatican. However it is OK to have sex if both partners are under this limit. I would bet, however I do not know any official statistic, that average age to lose virginity for a czech girl is under 15 these days, at least in large cities and certainly counting non coital sex pratices.

    As I said, age of consent is determined by state law, not federal law. Here in California I believe it's 16, I know there are some states where it is 14, and there may be states where it is 12, though I don't know that for sure. 16 or 17 is always a safe bet, though if the age difference is more than 4 years it could still be statutory rape. Again, though, that varies by state.

    Perhaps I should also note that it was illegal to produce pornography at all in California until less than 30 years ago (I don't know the exact date), when that law was challenged and struck down by the court.

    That said, the average age when an American girl loses her virginity is probably also about 15.

    The age for creating porn is however 18 but again, it is not used (or may be even does not apply) if people are taking pictures of themselves for their personal usage.

    I've heard of people being prosecuted for child porn for having pictures of their infant taking a bath. That's an extreme case, and most of the time those pictures would be perfectly OK, but one always has to remember that it's based on the standards of the community as represented by the 12 people on the jury, and that the jury consists of 12 people who're too dumb to get out of jury duty.

    it is either a country of hypocrites or a country of ascetics.

    I wouldn't say we're any more hypocritical than the people of any other nation, just in our own particular way. The first colonists were Puritans, who known for being extremely uptight, and our laws still reflect that to a large extent, even though our society in general is rapidly degenerating into vulgar hedonism.

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    Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.