Slashdot Mirror
PalmSource Drops Mac Synchronization in Cobalt
Gear_Media writes "Originally posted at PalmInfocenter: 'In a surprise announcement at the developer conference, PalmSource revealed that Palm OS Cobalt will no longer offer synchronization with the Mac. This marks a departure as previous versions of the Palm OS had long shipped with Mac compatible hotsync software.' Smart move? I think not."
iSync requires Palm's 'Palm Desktop' software to be installed before it can sync with PalmOS devices
MacBook Pro. Worst name since the Bicycle
Missing Sync will make your Clie, Palm or Pocket PC sync with your mac... Works and is cheap...
www.markspace.com
Don't be mislead by just because it's a Microsoft product - PocketPCs work well with Macs.
I'm using an HP iPAQ 2210 with my PowerBook right now, and it syncs very well through iSync thanks to the addition of some software from mark/space. It even allows you to mount the PocketPC's storage devices as volumes on your Desktop in OS X, which I don't think you can do in Windows.
MacBook Pro. Worst name since the Bicycle
Without Hotsync Manager, iSync does not work. So unless you want to spend more money, you will not be able to sync the newest palms with your Mac.
That's a shame because at my school district we were looking at rolling out a Palm program to help teachers stay organized. Now that Palm made this decision, I don't know what we're going to do.
I've already sent them feedback, but I'm not holding my breath waiting on a reply.
What, me worry?
Mark/Space, the makers of the Missing Sync for Mac OS, will fill the void. Check out their website to read all about it: http://www.markspace.com/cobalt.html
Stuart Eichert
"Fortunately, a third party company, Mark/Space, has pledged to make a version of their Missing Sync client for Cobalt. It will be released later this year in anticipation of the first Palm OS Cobalt devices. Missing Sync for Cobalt will enable users to connect and synchronize information between Palm OS Cobalt devices and Macs running Mac OS X via USB, network, WiFi or Bluetooth."
They have ignored the OpenSource community, and now they are snubbing Apple.
Palm has ALWAYS BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF OPEN SOURCE DEVELOPMENT. I take it you have never actually DONE any palm development. There is a completely (f)ree toolchain available for the Palm devices, and it's why I use it. Palm does not have the resources to support the smaller market of linux (and mac, I guess) users. They have always been willing to work with developers and release information - at least so far as I've seen.
Please cite examples if you are going to make statements like the above.
If they choose not to write a conduit, then the information will be available to do so. My guess is that Apple will include palm syncing in their next iSync update as a internal thing, and this miffed PalmSource for some reason. (the iTools already do much of what Palm desktop does, better).
..don't panic
This is a dealbreaker for me. I was actually about to upgrade my Palm M505 to something newer/fancier, but if it doesn't work my iBook, that's it.
It also makes you wonder about the health of Palm as a company; are the Windows CE devices finally starting to take over the market and push Palm out ?
Syncing requires two components, HotSync itself and conduit(s).
HotSync handles the communication between the host machine and the Palm handheld. This includes handshaking, scheduling conduit activation, data transfer between the device and conduits, error checking, and logging.
The Conduits are what handles the data once it's on the host machine, chosing which records need to be updated on the host and client, backing up data, etc.
iSync's interaction with the Palm is as a conduit only. It still requires HotSync to communicate with a device. HotSync is developed by PalmSource and is provided as part of the Palm Desktop distribution.
There is an open source version of HotSync out there, I wouldn't think it would take too much effort to port it over to OS-X and adapt it to whatever changes Palm is making to the new syncronization process.
I have to believe that the business market for Palm devices is many times larger than the hobbyist ('hobbiest' for illiterate slashbots) market. And what are those businessmen running?
Windows.
So this may not be as short-sighted as you think. Let's say that they have 6 engineers responsible for the Mac sync software, each making 50,000 dollars. That works out to 300,000 dollars a year in savings if they don't have to hire those engineers. It actually works out to more than that when you take into consideration all the hidden costs that come with each employee (insurance, unemployment, etc.)
Palm can save maybe half a million dollars a year by stopping development for Mac. They only make about 80 million dollars a year in sales. They certainly aren't profitable.
Add to this that they only have about 34 million in the bank, and their burn rate will bankrupt them within the next 6 months, Now is exactly the time to stop supporting areas of business which provide insignficant upside and significant loss potential.
I have been pwned because my
One thing to think about is that it's not like PalmSource has been all that good at keeping Mac sync up to speed with Windows in the past.
The first version of Palm Desktop for Mac was terrible. Then they bought Claris Organizer when Apple no longer needed it after killing the Newton and de-emphasizing Claris products other than FMPro. At that point things were OK, but really Palm just picked up Claris Organizer for cheap. It wasn't a real commitment on their part.
From then until OS X they really did nothing for the Mac desktop. Then they came out with an OS X version, but no new features (no network sync, no WiFi sync, etc...). Now they've given up altogether.
Mark/Space makes pretty good stuff so far, and their support has been very good. There's some question of whether or not they can handle the scale, but I'm sure they'll make a greater effort at pushing the Mac 'Palm' desktop forward than PalmSource has. In fact their first release will have more improvements than PalmSource has given us in years (WiFi sync, Ethernet sync).
The longer term issue is whether or not third party conduit makers stop supporting the Mac because of this move, even though Mark/Space has said they will make a conduit manager that works with everyone's conduits.
But in terms of development focus on the desktop and conduit manager itself, I'd expect Mark/Space to make more progress than PalmSource ever has.
It even allows you to mount the PocketPC's storage devices as volumes on your Desktop in OS X, which I don't think you can do in Windows.
Yup, you can do that in Windows. Open up My Computer, and there is an icon in there called "Mobile Device." In there you have access to the PocketPC's internal storage as well as anything external- SD, CF, etc.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
It is interesting that the Treo 300 I bought in December 2003 did not mention Mac support. It syncs just fine. If it did not work, I would have returned it and my wife's new phone. It appears their plan to drop Mac support has been in the works for at least a few months given their box labeling.
They only dropped support for it's Cobalt (v6) OS, not the v5 OS. Mac users can still use low end Palm devices, but if they want to upgrade, they'll have to get a PC.
I believe a condiut only handles communication between HotSync and that application you want to sync with. HotSync is what actually handles communication with the Palm device. So without HotSync a condiut won't do much good.
Very rarely do you see Mac users toting non-Palm OS handhelds, thanks to new synchronization from such companies as mark|space now there are ways to seamlessly hook up with a Pocket PC or WinCE device....
Palm's products have a huge base of Mac users. I don't know what the hell they are doing with this, but it has to be one of the stupidest business decisions(SCO aside) that I've ever seen in my life.
My Windows XP using friend called me 3 times before I got his call, and he was urgent to tell me as I entered the supermarket about this...I tried to restrain my foul language in such a public place. He couldn't believe they are doing this either.
Mac users make up about 3% of the total PC market, and more than 3% of Palm users are Mac users, I guarantee you that.
Apple sells Palm handhelds, for God's sake!
Don't be surprised if HP(Apple's new partner, they are now bundling iTunes) lends Mac OS X support to their iPaq line somehow, Apple will surely be scrambling to get some handheld native on their system.
I own some shares of PalmOne, thankfully this is more PalmSource...but get ready for a dive, Palm, you dumbasses.
Actually, from what I understand, Palm had a HELL of a time getting HotSync to work with Panther's Fast User Switching. They were probably so preoccupied with keeping their head above water that they figured they can sit on it for a while.
Number of Macintosh users: 25 million
Percentage of Mac users who own a PalmOS PDA: 12%
(source: Apple)
Lost market for Palm: 3 million customers
Then how do you explain the fact that Google and many other popular websites reflect this 3% statistic in their traffic logs?
. gi f
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/nov03_pie
I have extensive experience working with the low-level serial communications facilities on the Palm platform. I've bypassed hotsync on a number of ocassions because it is overkill for a lot of things - but I can't see anything that difficult about it, just tedious. The information, at least on the Palm side, is all available.
..don't panic
The thing is that in terms of PDAs palm is probably the main choice on the Mac, whereas on the PC sadly MS PocketPC is now the main choice. So palm will end up not being the main choice on either platform.
Go out and get sailing!
That calculation is as simple as it is wrong.
I persuaded some of my PC friends to buy Palms instead of something else. Guess what I won't do any more in the future?
bye. Andreas.
I don't know if I agree with you about this.. I'm sure for an appropriate number of million bucks that Apple could buy Mark/Space, and I don't think it's entirely out of the question that they would too. It would fit in with iSync quite nicely.
Not true.
I own a Sony Clie and iSync(forgive the pun) just fine with the palm desktop and iSync without the 3rd party app. The app in question allows you to access the memory stick as a separate usb mass storage device and some other advanced features which i never use anyway.
I agree that some of the special functionality and software that makes a Clie so special is lost on a mac though.
If we assume every Mac sold, 1999-2003, is part of the current Mac installed base (and given Mac sales over time, that's actually more generous than "average Mac is used five years") that's 17,206,000 machines.
If we assume that the total non-Mac installed base is merely equal to the number of PCs sold in 2003 (using the Gartner preliminary estimate), then there are roughly 170 million non-Mac machines in the world today.
So even if we assume average Mac users buy a computer every five years and the average non-Mac user buys one every year, the Mac percentage of the installed base is merely 10%. So the absolute worst-case scenario for Palm here is losing 10% of its market.
Now, if we change those numbers to something more reasonable, like an average of a Mac every four years and a PC every two, the Mac installed base drops to 13,758,000 computers, and the PC installed base goes up to 317,000,000. So Macs have 4.3% of the installed base.
Which should more-than-adequately account for UA spoofing in the 3% Google number; I doubt more than 30% of Mac users are claiming to be a Windows PC.
The iPod wasn't the first very-large-storage MP3 device, but it was the first to not suck.
The Creative Nomad beat it to market, but even with gobs more space than the 5GB first-gen iPod, it was also much larger, less reliable, slower to start, and painfully slow to load up that first time. The iPod, by comparison, was smaller, faster, and easier to use.
In the PDA market, though, it's a lot trickier. Apple took the MP3 player and boiled it down to what they thought users wanted: a portable jukebox that they wouldn't leave at home. PDA users are more finicky. Some just want a digital equivalent of a day planner and rolodex, while others seem to want a full-blown internet-ready device with video and mp3 playback and so on. I know that my Palm-phone makes a decent organizer, but it's not a great movie player, and it's certainly far from the iPod when it comes to audio playback. Even web browsing isn't all that great, but it's as good as one would expect from such a small screen. For it's core functions, it's great. For everything else, it's okay. For some oddball tasks, it sucks. Apple would either have to make the perfect kitchen-sink device, or the best damned digital organizer/assistant ever, in an era where everyone seems to be buying some oversized brick with Bluetooth, 802.11, two memory slots, and at few hours, at best, of battery life.
It would be a tricky move, although I'd be really interested to see Apple try.
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Update from the article:
PalmSource Cheif Competitve Officer, Michael Mace, has issued a statement direcct from PalmSource regarding the issue in the article comments, "PalmSource is fortunate to have a great Palm OS developer community who provide solutions for Macintosh compatibility today. Palm OS provides an open and flexible architecture and allows its licensees to decide whether to ship a Mac compatibility solution with their Palm Powered device. (One such solution is provided by Mark/Space.) We are continuing our efforts with Apple to provide compatibility between Palm OS and Macintosh."
Let's see where this goes...
Just like all the rest of us Linux users already do. Stop complaing and show some inititive on your own; write a conduit or the like.
Get it here.
http://www.pilot-link.org/
use Signature::Witty;