Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the sunshine-lollipops-and-rainbows dept.
ptolemu writes "The Register has the scoop on Sun's latest iteration of Solaris. The article includes some details of the new and improved features that will be included in the OS. The OS is scheduled to be released in the second half of 2004."
Sun has also added a new security tool with Solaris Privileges. This lets the root user create sub roots that can have permission, for example, to patch applications but not to touch hardware components.
It should be interesting to see how the N1 Grid Containers work. It would be great to setup a shared server with this so scripts can't eat all the CPU and crash the entire server.
--
"But I'm still right here, giving blood and keeping faith. And I'm still right here."
If N1 Grid Containers work well it will be a major improvement on the competition. In HP-UX if you want to set up V-Pars you need to dedicate at least one CPU, physical disks and a network interface to every partition, and resource allocation is at the whole CPU level. With an 8 CPU machine that doesn't give you much leeway if you want to have 3 or 4 test environments.
With N1 Grid Containers OS instances sit on top of a "master" OS, so resources can be divided at a much finer level. You could presumably have a production partition with 80% of the cpu power allocated to it, and a bunch of test partitions sharing the rest, and dynamically increase the CPU power of the test partitions when it was prudent to do so.
Re:so what's better, bsd, linux or solaris?
by
0xfc
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
> i always wondered why nobody ever writes articles that include solaris.
1. not open source 2. costs money 3. runs on overpriced hardware 4. bsd and linux can do everything it can cept maybe scale to extremes 5. solaris is not the only stable OS anymore 6. way too many people were burned by sun back in the day and said enough is enough, they never went back
Is Unix Unix?
by
ObviousGuy
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I've wondered for a while now, is one Unix like another Unix? I've used Linux in the past and am trying out FreeBSD now. Frankly, I don't notice the difference from an end-user perspective.
Linux has SMP support, so does FreeBSD, and so does Solaris. They all have process management functionality (which is what Solaris is introducing with N1 Containers in this release). What would possess me to use Solaris (which costs) instead of Linux or FreeBSD (which are free)?
Is any one of them more robust than another?
-- I have been pwned because my/. password was too easy to guess.
Re:Is Unix Unix?
by
Veridium
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I have to agree with you. Sun support kicks butt, second to none. At the one company I worked at as a Solaris admin, the few times I did call Sun, I was never on hold more than a few minutes, and whatever parts were needed were delivered to us within hours.
Though I always saw that as one of the advantages of having the OS & hardware coming from the same vendor. It seems to keep them from playing the "it must be your hardware" game that so many software vendor support people play whenever the answer isn't easy. Though that doesn't explain your experience with RH.
Anyone out there have experience with their X86 support?
Sun has also added a new security tool with Solaris Privileges. This lets the root user create sub roots that can have permission, for example, to patch applications but not to touch hardware components.
This is a very interesting feature. Except for using sudo, does anyone know of any effort going on in linux to provide a similar feature ? Maybe Sun can port it to linux just to prove how OSS friendly they are;)
-- My mom never taught me to sign.
Re:so what's better, bsd, linux or solaris?
by
BiggerIsBetter
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
1. Yup. 2. Yup, but it's cheaper than RedHat/SuSE Linux for a single CPU *professional* version. 3. There's an x86 version (Sun harware fanboys can STFU about how crappy it is on non-SPARC hardware), and low-end Sun hardware starts at around 1000 USD. 4. Yup. 5. Fair enough.
-- Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Will they charge for x86 Solaris 10
by
rueben
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
And then change their minds a few months later, like Solaris 9?
So is this version going to
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
So is this version going to include the feature of it not being *fricking painful* to compile nearly anything not specifically targetted at Solaris?
No, I'm not trolling. Anyone who's worked with previous Solaris versions knows what I'm talking about. Anyone who's tried to compile GNOME as a non-root user on Solaris 9 is rolling on the floor crying from the memories right now. It seems like Solaris has everything just *barely* different enough that absolutely everything is a slightly different kind of complete pain to compile.
Yes I realize that at least part of this is that apps are targetted for Linux, so of course it isn't Sun's fault when shit doesn't compile. And yes, I'm exaggerating, the compilation problems only happen occationally, it's just that when they do happen it's really bad. But through the shit-colored glasses of memory, it seems like every time you try to compile some large free software package in solaris you uncover some new and painful oddity about the OS.
Re:So is this version going to
by
plankers
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Re:So is this version going to
by
aanantha
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I'm still trying to compile GNOME on Solaris *as* a root user. It's been a year now. Not done yet. Seriously. I wasted a lot of time trying to get that OpenJade crap working. I couldn't figure out why OpenJade would crash every time I ran it. It was only months later that I found out that a shared library version of OpenSP doesn't work on Solaris. The Openjade people didn't think it important enough to mention. But even after getting that stuff built and figuring out how to install DTDs by looking at my Linux system, it still wouldn't work. So then there was no choice but to disable all gnome doc building.
And then there's that goddamn gettext/libintl stuff. I don't have the option of overriding the Sun version of libintl across the board by placing the GNU libintl in/usr/local. Our Solaris software that uses Sun's libintl will break. You think the GNU people could have at least made it possible to use a different library name (libgintl maybe) for their incompatible version of libintl and have their configure scripts search for that.
Now all my stuff is out of date so I have to start over from the beginning again. Building GNOME has just become a great way to procrastinate. I wonder if I'll ever get to KDE.
Sun tries to solve this problem by giving you a prepackaged version of GNOME. But 2 problems with their approach: 1) it's never up to date, and 2) it's only good if you have Sun's C compiler. I don't know how, but somehow Sun's GTK+ C library is incompatible with GCC's. Same with their Zlib. So I can't use Sun's GNOME distribution to write software. I though that kind of stuff was only supposed to happen with C++. I'd much rather like Sun to promote a/usr/ports like thing for Solaris. Whatever they did to get GNOME to compile they need to stick those patches in a/usr/ports. The community would help out. Then eventually we can have full "distributions" that we can install onto a Solaris system. Life would be a lot easier if there was something like "fink" in place for Solaris.
And while they're at it, Sun needs to stop ignoring GCC. Make the C and C++ ABI compatible. There are a lot of Solaris software houses that only use GCC because they need to build their code on other unices. They're not going to be able to use Sun's GNOME environment if it's not GCC compatible.
never do anything with the odd release of solaris.
by
Desmoden
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
think of it like odd linux kernels.
5.6 stable we all used it. 5.7 we played with, tested 5.8 we all upgraded to, used, liked. 5.9 play with and test 5.10 upgrade and enjoy.
most oracle products for example will never be certified on 5.9. It's too much work to requalify and upgrade to a new solaris version. So the odds introduce new features and work out the bugs, and the evens is what we use.
Re:A simple question
by
Brandybuck
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Linux and BSD aren't really UNIX
In all but name, BSD is every bit as much UNIX as Solaris. In fact, Solaris's precessor, SunOS, was directly derived from BSD. If you're hung up on names and trademarks, than BSD is not UNIX. But in every other sense it is.
-- Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Re:Solaris vs. Linux - mod parent up
by
javiercero
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Not really, actually I have had the opposite experience with Solaris running much better on desktop sparc machines than linux.
Also most of the software out there that can be compiled in linux can also be ported over Solaris with minimal grief.
And I do not particularly feel like spending 2 days compiling in order to have a stable machine. A solaris install with the extra software CD provides most of the functionality than a linux install. But if you like linux by all means go and use it. Saying that linux is somehow better or makes more sense than solaris just because is just plain dumb.
Why all the bad comments?
by
KidSock
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Excuse me but this actually sounds pretty good. This "containers" thing permits running hundreds of virtual machines on one host (and not a moment too late as that idea is becoming a very popular -- I have a VPS runing UML and it's very snappy). The DTrace utility sounds nice although I probably shouldn't say that considering I've never tried it. And they're going to run Opteron and claim that they can beat the Linux benchmarks. I don't know about you but I wouldn't mind having an Opteron box running Solaris 10.
[disclaimer: I have 50 shares of SUNW]
Re:Not just Solaris
by
Bastian
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I've run into the same problem on Mac OS X. Usually you're fine, but when you aren't, you're in a world of pain. I think this is a lot of why fink just creates a separate file tree rather than trying to merge itself in with the main one.
I've actually been considering dual-booting GNU/Linux on my mac for just this reason.
Re:so what's better, bsd, linux or solaris?
by
0xfc
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
> 1. You can get the source to Solaris.
google showed this link for seach "solaris source". From this link it reads:
The Solaris 8 Foundation Source Program has concluded. Source code for the Solaris Operating System is available for qualified educational institutions and partners; please contact your Sun sales team for details. Maybe this info is old...
> 2. You can download Solaris for free.
I just tried, it seemed you were right, they made me jump through hoops. I ended up at a page that appeared to allow me to download solaris, but the link was not a link and they wanted me to register. could have told me that at the start... i am too lazy to do it, i will assume you are right.
> 3. Solaris runs on good hardware which is a good thing if you are trying to get serious work done. (Not everyone working with *nix is building web servers, internet hosting, or using samba to replace a few Windows PCs.) If you are only trying to recycle crap hardware, any OS will do. FreeDOS or DR DOS will recycle hardware that Linux is too fat to run on.
You make it sound like ibm,hp,compaq did not make high end x86 servers. Himilaya non stop servers come to mind. Heck even proliants are nice.
> 4. BSD and Linux lack the thousands of mature, commerical applications Solaris has, but they are catching up.
I agree.
> 5. Solaris is not only stable, it is one of the best. Linux is still in catch up mode in terms of standards and features. Linux still has a tendency to cheat, or only partially implement a standard. It is getting better. Standards are a good thing if you are trying to get equipment from multiple vendors to work together.
FreeBSD is amazingly stable. Uptimes of a year are taken for granted. I dont know enough to comment on the rest of your statement.
> 6. Sun's support has been plenty good for the companies I've worked for, and PCs won't be getting the work done that we do anytime soon. Maybe if the Opterons work out well we could use them in a couple of years.
Support? I dont need no stinkin support. You telling me your head admins cannot troubleshoot hardware? You dont have a backup system ready so a hardware failure just is an inconvienence? Software is a whole different issue.
> 7. A standard Sun keyboard has the control key where it should be....
> 8. Documentation. Solaris has it. The documentation is good, and correct. Linux, ha.
I agree. Sun probably employs a crap load of technical writers. Its a good thing. I often find answers to problems from sun docs...
> 9. Solaris can have a System V Unix personality, a BSD personality, a GNU personality, or traditional Sun personality, depending upon your path.
I guess.
> 10. Linux pretty much provides a subset of what Solaris can do.
I wont argue that. Solaris is time tested and powerful.
Re:there's an old saying...
by
jcupitt65
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I found this other article linked on the reg, talking about the new TCP/IP stack:
Slashdot Mirror
When will I see it in Debian stable? =b
VIVA1023.com | Political Fashion.
It should be interesting to see how the N1 Grid Containers work. It would be great to setup a shared server with this so scripts can't eat all the CPU and crash the entire server.
"But I'm still right here, giving blood and keeping faith. And I'm still right here."
> i always wondered why nobody ever writes articles that include solaris.
1. not open source
2. costs money
3. runs on overpriced hardware
4. bsd and linux can do everything it can cept maybe scale to extremes
5. solaris is not the only stable OS anymore
6. way too many people were burned by sun back in the day and said enough is enough, they never went back
I've wondered for a while now, is one Unix like another Unix? I've used Linux in the past and am trying out FreeBSD now. Frankly, I don't notice the difference from an end-user perspective.
Linux has SMP support, so does FreeBSD, and so does Solaris. They all have process management functionality (which is what Solaris is introducing with N1 Containers in this release). What would possess me to use Solaris (which costs) instead of Linux or FreeBSD (which are free)?
Is any one of them more robust than another?
I have been pwned because my
Sun has also added a new security tool with Solaris Privileges. This lets the root user create sub roots that can have permission, for example, to patch applications but not to touch hardware components.
;)
This is a very interesting feature. Except for using sudo, does anyone know of any effort going on in linux to provide a similar feature ? Maybe Sun can port it to linux just to prove how OSS friendly they are
My mom never taught me to sign.
1. Yup.
2. Yup, but it's cheaper than RedHat/SuSE Linux for a single CPU *professional* version.
3. There's an x86 version (Sun harware fanboys can STFU about how crappy it is on non-SPARC hardware), and low-end Sun hardware starts at around 1000 USD.
4. Yup.
5. Fair enough.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
And then change their minds a few months later, like Solaris 9?
So is this version going to include the feature of it not being *fricking painful* to compile nearly anything not specifically targetted at Solaris?
No, I'm not trolling. Anyone who's worked with previous Solaris versions knows what I'm talking about. Anyone who's tried to compile GNOME as a non-root user on Solaris 9 is rolling on the floor crying from the memories right now. It seems like Solaris has everything just *barely* different enough that absolutely everything is a slightly different kind of complete pain to compile.
Yes I realize that at least part of this is that apps are targetted for Linux, so of course it isn't Sun's fault when shit doesn't compile. And yes, I'm exaggerating, the compilation problems only happen occationally, it's just that when they do happen it's really bad. But through the shit-colored glasses of memory, it seems like every time you try to compile some large free software package in solaris you uncover some new and painful oddity about the OS.
think of it like odd linux kernels.
5.6 stable we all used it.
5.7 we played with, tested
5.8 we all upgraded to, used, liked.
5.9 play with and test
5.10 upgrade and enjoy.
most oracle products for example will never be certified on 5.9. It's too much work to requalify and upgrade to a new solaris version. So the odds introduce new features and work out the bugs, and the evens is what we use.
Linux and BSD aren't really UNIX
In all but name, BSD is every bit as much UNIX as Solaris. In fact, Solaris's precessor, SunOS, was directly derived from BSD. If you're hung up on names and trademarks, than BSD is not UNIX. But in every other sense it is.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Not really, actually I have had the opposite experience with Solaris running much better on desktop sparc machines than linux.
Also most of the software out there that can be compiled in linux can also be ported over Solaris with minimal grief.
And I do not particularly feel like spending 2 days compiling in order to have a stable machine. A solaris install with the extra software CD provides most of the functionality than a linux install. But if you like linux by all means go and use it. Saying that linux is somehow better or makes more sense than solaris just because is just plain dumb.
Excuse me but this actually sounds pretty good. This "containers" thing permits running hundreds of virtual machines on one host (and not a moment too late as that idea is becoming a very popular -- I have a VPS runing UML and it's very snappy). The DTrace utility sounds nice although I probably shouldn't say that considering I've never tried it. And they're going to run Opteron and claim that they can beat the Linux benchmarks. I don't know about you but I wouldn't mind having an Opteron box running Solaris 10.
[disclaimer: I have 50 shares of SUNW]
I've run into the same problem on Mac OS X. Usually you're fine, but when you aren't, you're in a world of pain. I think this is a lot of why fink just creates a separate file tree rather than trying to merge itself in with the main one.
I've actually been considering dual-booting GNU/Linux on my mac for just this reason.
> 1. You can get the source to Solaris.
...
google showed this link for seach "solaris source". From this link it reads:
The Solaris 8 Foundation Source Program has concluded. Source code for the Solaris Operating System is available for qualified educational institutions and partners; please contact your Sun sales team for details. Maybe this info is old...
> 2. You can download Solaris for free.
I just tried, it seemed you were right, they made me jump through hoops. I ended up at a page that appeared to allow me to download solaris, but the link was not a link and they wanted me to register. could have told me that at the start... i am too lazy to do it, i will assume you are right.
> 3. Solaris runs on good hardware which is a good thing if you are trying to get serious work done. (Not everyone working with *nix is building web servers, internet hosting, or using samba to replace a few Windows PCs.) If you are only trying to recycle crap hardware, any OS will do. FreeDOS or DR DOS will recycle hardware that Linux is too fat to run on.
You make it sound like ibm,hp,compaq did not make high end x86 servers. Himilaya non stop servers come to mind. Heck even proliants are nice.
> 4. BSD and Linux lack the thousands of mature, commerical applications Solaris has, but they are catching up.
I agree.
> 5. Solaris is not only stable, it is one of the best. Linux is still in catch up mode in terms of standards and features. Linux still has a tendency to cheat, or only partially implement a standard. It is getting better. Standards are a good thing if you are trying to get equipment from multiple vendors to work together.
FreeBSD is amazingly stable. Uptimes of a year are taken for granted. I dont know enough to comment on the rest of your statement.
> 6. Sun's support has been plenty good for the companies I've worked for, and PCs won't be getting the work done that we do anytime soon. Maybe if the Opterons work out well we could use them in a couple of years.
Support? I dont need no stinkin support. You telling me your head admins cannot troubleshoot hardware?
You dont have a backup system ready so a hardware failure just is an inconvienence? Software is a whole different issue.
> 7. A standard Sun keyboard has the control key where it should be.
> 8. Documentation. Solaris has it. The documentation is good, and correct. Linux, ha.
I agree. Sun probably employs a crap load of technical writers. Its a good thing. I often find answers to problems from sun docs...
> 9. Solaris can have a System V Unix personality, a BSD personality, a GNU personality, or traditional Sun personality, depending upon your path.
I guess.
> 10. Linux pretty much provides a subset of what Solaris can do.
I wont argue that. Solaris is time tested and powerful.
I found this other article linked on the reg, talking about the new TCP/IP stack:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33440.html
The relevant quote is (near the bottom):
We worked hard on efficiency, and we now measure, at a given network workload on identical x86 hardware, we use 30 percent less CPU than Linux.
So I guess that should give them a fair performance advantage under very heavy static loads. Although he doesn't say which linux.