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Massachusetts' Big Brother Tech to Watch Taxpayers

rocketjam writes "The Boston Globe reports that the Massachusetts state Revenue Department has launched a new technology offensive which strives to piece together all the stray bits of financial information about individual taxpayers that is contained in various public databases in order to catch tax cheats. The databases have been around for years, but technology has only recently enabled the state to assemble and review the information in a time-efficient manner. The so-called 'Discovery' initiative is already bringing in an additional $1 million a week. While denying the state is playing 'Big Brother', the Revenue Department Commissioner, Alan LeBovidge predicted the state may eventually be able to track so much financial information on individuals that the state could complete the citizens' returns for them."

114 of 578 comments (clear)

  1. Good!!! by moehoward · · Score: 4, Funny


    I, for one, welcome our new, um..... well, overlords.

    --
    "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
    1. Re:Good!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Knock, knock, Mr. Liberal.

      This is the state of your boy, Mr. John-I-was-in-Vietnam-but-I-don't-use-botox-did-I- mention-that-I-was-in-Vietnam-Kerry.

      Where he is currently the Junior Senator.

      Where he was once Lt. Gov.

      Trying to blame this on Bush is like trying to blame Mike Tyson for the price of tea in China. But don't let that stop you from hating Bush so much you don't care who you vote for.

    2. Re:Good!!! by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're the same overloads as before. They're just more public about it since the Bush administration has laid the groundwork for them to do whatever they want to citizens.

      The Bush administration has exactly what effect on state government, again?

      (Or, since this is Massachusetts we're talking about, perhaps I should say "commonwealth government" instead.)

      IMO Bush is indeed a bad president, but it's reactionary and irrational to blame his administration for EVERY change in government that you don't like.

    3. Re:Good!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right. Let's blame the Bush administration for what happens in Massachusetts. This is the state that the Kennedys run and from which Bush's likely opponent, Kerry, hails, with Uncle Ted's blessing, of course.

      Get a grip, Bush-bashers. What the Bush administration is doing was already happening all around the world before G.W. wet his first diaper.

    4. Re:Good!!! by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Informative

      "The Boston Globe reports that the Massachusetts state Revenue Department has launched a new technology offensive which strives to piece together all the stray bits of financial information about individual taxpayers that is contained in various public databases in order to catch tax cheats."

      Which means that Massachusetts is leveraging federal law how exactly?

    5. Re:Good!!! by operagost · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Right - because everyone knows that Massachusetts is a very Republican state!

      So, they're going to crack down on the cheaters. Do you think this means the tax rate might go down, then? HAHAHAHAHA!

      --

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    6. Re:Good!!! by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      But, this is nothing new in this state. I hear it has been known as "Tax-achussets" for a long time.

      This time, they're just being more technical about it...kinda scarey though...

      Their logic is backwards from the article tho. It says to the effect, 'if you don't want more taxes..pay the ones you owe'

      I'd say...if you had more reasonable taxation...we'd be more willing to pay them....but, losing 30% or more our of my paycheck...is ridiculous....and that's just payroll taxes. Then sales tax, use tax, phone tax, gas tax, tax on cable...etc.

      Enough is enough I say...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Good!!! by Tackhead · · Score: 2, Funny
      > I, for one, welcome our new, um..... well, overlords.

      AS WELL YOU SHOULD, CITIZEN!
      - Your Overlords. Because Without Us, Old People Would Starve And Your Children Would Suffer, Because We'd Have To Cut Schools, Hospitals, Police, and Fire Departments Again.

  2. What about corporations? by VooDoo999 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd be happier if it included corporations - the ones still 'located' in Mass. anyway.

    1. Re:What about corporations? by NightSpots · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Right. They probably will, when they realize there's money to be made there.

      In the mean time, they're hitting the consumers, and the article makes it look like the online-shopping-is-tax-free 'feature' is coming to an end:

      Separately from the Discovery program, the state is also gathering information from other sources to track down tax leads. Most states now share with each other the results of their audits. North Carolina, for example, might audit a furniture manufacturer and get a list of customers to whom the company shipped a chair or a sofa without collecting sales tax.

      North Carolina could share that list of customers with other states so they could track down those residents who bought a piece of furniture but didn't pay use tax on it. The same sharing of data goes on with purchases of jewelry, furs, and virtually anything else that's taxable.

      Massachusetts is already demanding that shipping companies like United Parcel Service and Federal Express share the names of individuals who receive shipments of cigarettes from out-of-state companies. The state has collected $162,000 in cigarette excise taxes this way over the last year.


      The law already says that buyers should be paying sales tax, but it's so silly that most people never do. This software could start enforcing that, creating a huge burden on everyone. Quite unfortunate.

    2. Re:What about corporations? by gsfprez · · Score: 5, Informative

      are you saying that companies are leaving Mass? Why would they do that? I'm sure its got nothing to do with the orwellian taxes that "The Rich" are supposed to pay.

      how fscking hard is this to understand - rich people that run companies give jobs to average joes... its not a gawddamned hard concept, people. I work for rich people, and i'm cool with that. if they weren't rich, they couldn't pay me.

      btw: california staved off $56 BILLION in new taxes last year - only because of the Republican 2 state senators and 6 state house reps that comprise the delta between what's necessary to pass new taxes and to kill off new tax bills...

      let me repeat that...

      the Cali legislature tried to pass $56 BILLION in new taxes - in one year - and 8 people stopped them. Our state's budget last year was just under $100 BILLION. It would have been $156 BILLION if not for 8 people.

      holy shit, batman.

      with a proposition (56) to kill off the requirement for a 2/3 majority to raise new taxes, and the teachers' unions putting out ad after ad claiming 56 is "good for California" - we should be dead in the water by 2006, and the only guy making money will be the U-Haul guy that drives the empty trucks back from Nevada, Colorado and Texas.

      --
      guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
    3. Re:What about corporations? by bahwi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, 50% of the workforce is employed by 'small businesses' which aren't rich people. But you do make a good point.

      Also, don't underestimate government budgets. That could be new roads, infrastructure, etc... They have to hire people to do that. So that $56 billion could partially eliminate that traffic jam you have to deal with, keep the calif. fires more under control, etc.. $56 billion is a lot of people working when they are only being paid $40k and less a year. Mind you, not all of that would go to that, but that's a HUGE boost to jobs. And companies need work, and many companies work for the gov't.

      But yeah, jobs have to come from either the private sector or the public sector. When people are squirreling it away(like the people benefitting from Bush's tax cuts), that money doesn't create new jobs.

    4. Re:What about corporations? by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Also, don't underestimate government budgets. That could be new roads, infrastructure, etc... They have to hire people to do that."

      This is the kind of thing that precisely scares me about trying to use the govt. to 'create' jobs. Ditch digging jobs aren't the ones we need....

      • We need manufacturing jobs.
      • We need skilled labor jobs.
      • We need skilled technical jobs.
      I don't think higher taxes, to pay ditchdiggers at ditchdigger wages, is the answer to bringing good jobs back to US citizens, and pushing the economy forward...IMHO
      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:What about corporations? by Tackhead · · Score: 2, Insightful
      > I don't think higher taxes, to pay ditchdiggers at ditchdigger wages, is the answer to bringing good jobs back to US citizens, and pushing the economy forward...IMHO

      It is, however, a great way of making sure productive citizens never accumulate sufficient wealth to flee to places where their capital is respected.

      It's also a great way of making sure that there's a willing army of ditchdiggers who can always be counted upon to vote for more publicly-funded ditch-digging projects.

    6. Re:What about corporations? by voidptr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The point of sales taxes is that the business is paying the state/local government for services it requires to conduct business. Courts, public utility oversight, roads, etc.

      If an out of state business sells something to me, they used absolutely none of those products of the government of my state. Who did use those services was the shipping company, and they paid taxes on their costs for handling their part of the transaction (fuel, local employees, etc.)

      States want to claim economic benefits from transactions they had no part in supporting. It's an entirely different situation from me driving down to the local WalMart and buying those items, because my WalMart does depend on my state government to stay in business.

      If anything, what should be done is the company is responsible for paying taxes on a transaction in the state that the transaction occoured, or that the company is incorporated in. Sure, everyone will then debate to incorporate in a state with no sales tax, or no income tax. Either way, they'll pay the other, and the state government they operate under gets paid. The argument that somehow my state deserves the same tax revenue for a transaction that they had nothing to do with because it happened in some other jurisdiction, compared to a transaction that I did in state is ridiculous. They didn't "lose" revenue, they were never entitled to it in the first place.

      Further, the Constitution prohibits states from taxing "imports or exports." "Use Taxes" are a stupid dodge to claim they're taxing your use of an item purchased out of state instead of taxing the transaction in which you bought it.

      States simply have no legal or moral right to tax transactions performed in another jurisdiction. Their authority ends at the state border, and it's not "cheating" the system to buy across state lines if it's favorable to the citizen. It's the way the system was designed.

      --
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  3. Complete the return FOR them? by SniperPuppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh, that's just great... Especially since there's about fifty ways that even a simple tax return can be computed. You've heard of those experiments where they take relatively simple tax information for a fictional family, and send it to 30 different tax accountants, and the result is about 25 or more different returns, ranging from "you owe $1800" to "you're getting $2300 back"? Gee, I wonder which computation Massachusettes would take...

    1. Re:Complete the return FOR them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wow, if that is really true, then the US system for calculating personal income tax is even more retardedly fucked up than I had thought.

      Canadian income tax form? 4 pages long. Big type. Double spaced. And if you pony up a few bucks for some software, you are done in under 15 minutes, including submitting the return on line. Within a day, it is processed, and in 2 weeks your refund is direct deposited into your bank account (or if you owe, just pay online with you bank.)

      Simple is good. And if you havn't filed a tax return in several years, you get a polite letter asking you to do so as soon as is possible. I hear the IRS rapes your wife, sells your children, and burns your house to the ground for anything more than 10 bucks.

    2. Re:Complete the return FOR them? by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's 25 different ways to fill out your federal return, but the MA state taxes are based almost completely on the Federal tax laws with different percentage rates assigned. If your answers on the IRS forms and the MA DOR forms don't match, you're already setting yourself up for audits... so all the state would do is just port over the numbers you gave to the IRS and do the math.

    3. Re:Complete the return FOR them? by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Canadian tax laws are more convoluded than the american ones. This coming from a Canadian living in Maryland.

      It's just that Americans suck at math - they dont teach it in schools here.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    4. Re:Complete the return FOR them? by Tackhead · · Score: 3, Funny
      > Canadian income tax form? 4 pages long. Big type. Double spaced

      The 1040 is only two pages long. Of course, each line in that page typically requires the filing of a nother two-page form, or the filling out of a 40-line worksheet, that isn't even part of the forms.

      (The 1040, unlike the Canadian forms, is a triumph of style over substance. I'm sure there's a bureaucrat somewhere that gets told to make sure every tax form is two pages long -- but because Congress didn't say anything about the complexity of the calculations that make up each line on the form, every line gets linked to a separate form. Talk about user design.)

      > I hear the IRS rapes your wife, sells your children, and burns your house to the ground for anything more than 10 bucks.

      You heard incorrectly.

      Your wife only becomes eligible for the VIP (that's "Voluntary Impregnation Programme") treatment if you're a Head of Household who fails to timely file his Form 6969, ("Voluntary Declaration of Seignieur's Rights With Respect To A Spouse") and form 6868 ("We Do You Instead And Your Dependent Children Each Owe Us One"), unless said dependent children each filed, in triplicate, Form 7272 ("With Three Fingers Up Your Ass") for the four preceding tax years.

      Geez, don't you people read your Revenue Bulletins and Interpretation Bulletins that get published during the first week of April? Just because the Revenue Bulletins aren't available at your post office doesn't mean you can't get them on the web, or subscribe to the IRS snail-mail mailing list for them. As the IRS explains repeatedly, the US tax code is based on a system of voluntary compliance. Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

  4. Interesting by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Anybody every notice that most big brother projects or legislation comes from New England first?

    --
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    1. Re:Interesting by ooby · · Score: 4, Funny

      Redmond is not in New England.

    2. Re:Interesting by ctr2sprt · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If you look at the states with budget problems, you'll see a lot of states in the Northeast on the list. That's the reason for this particular offense. They won't (or can't) cut their programs, but voters are pretty overwhelmingly against tax increases, so they've got to find the money elsewhere.

      I guess you could argue that these sorts of programs show up in the Northeast first because of its strong philosophical belief in "Government should be working for me." Hence lots of government programs. I'm not sure I really buy that - that philosophy is pretty universal nowadays - but it was my first thought, so I figured I'd mention it.

    3. Re:Interesting by Tassach · · Score: 3, Informative
      Christianity and libertarianism are closely related.
      I have to disagree with you on that, my friend. There may be Christians who find support for their libertarian ideals in Christian teachings, but there's nothing inherently libertarian about the Christian religion. The Bible has just as much (if not more) support for authoritarian government as it does for libertarian government.

      The Bible contains so many contridictory and mutually exclusive passages that, with a little selective quoting, you can find support for just about anything from universal brotherhood to wholesale genocide.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
    4. Re:Interesting by bamberg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yielding to God's authority and imposing self-control makes it much easier to create a libertarian nation. If control isn't imposed from within, it must be imposed from without, and that way likes authoritarianism.

      This is a nice theory, but it ignores christianity's long history of oppression. Imposing self-control (which is certainly helpful for a free society) is entirely unrelated to religion.

      2) becoming a Christian (accepting Christ as savior) must be a free choice and not forced conversion

      This claim is inconsistent with the practices (such as the Inquisition) of christian churches in the past.

      3) a high respect for human life (as its created in the image of God)

      Also inconsistent with christianity's past history.

      4) "love your neighbor"/"do unto others..." means that Christianity is very close to the libertarian "live and let live in peace". That's what I was getting at.

      Unfortunately, while Libertarianism involves a true attitude of living and letting live, christianity (in practice) does not. Just look at the current hatred and bigotry coming from christian organizations these days over the subject of gay marriage.

  5. Riight. . . by PhxBlue · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suppose they think they can include the $20 my wife's employer paid me in cash the other day for fixing one of their computers (it was a pretty minor problem). Granted, $20 doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things - but it is still possible, using greenbacks, to make one's financial transactions very hard to track. Consider people who receive paychecks instead of direct deposit, cash their checks at the grocery store, and keep their cash on-hand. How well do you track that?

    --
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    1. Re:Riight. . . by chazwurth · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're able to track their large purchases? Very well, I think. You can identify who to look at more closely, as the article says. If you're making $500 a month car payments and $1,500 a month mortgage payments and are reporting $20,000 a year in income, something's probably up, and as stupid as state bureaucracies are, I don't think they'll have too much trouble figuring it out once enough information is in front of them.

      --
      The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. --Dan Kaminsky
    2. Re:Riight. . . by Roofus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Consider people who receive paychecks instead of direct deposit, cash their checks at the grocery store, and keep their cash on-hand. How well do you track that?
      That's just dandy too, because your employer will keep track of that for you. No worries!

      Sincerely,
      The Massachusett's Department of Reveue

    3. Re:Riight. . . by Trekologer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Very simple. When you get paid, your employer must keep records of what you received, regardless of the form they paid you in, be it a check, direct deposit, cash, or pounds of seaweed. Then, at the end of the year, your employer sends you a form W-2, which has a total of what you were paid, how much taxes they withheld from your pay to be sent to the government, and what you finally took home with you. This information is also sent to the government (both state and federal). They already have been receiving all of this information, the agencies just haven't been able to do anything useful with it yet.

      This isn't really a revolutionary thing happening. The governments have had this information for years but only recently has it been electronic and able to be easily and readilly retrieved and compared to what is declared on a tax return. In the past, if the tax man wanted to check if you were telling the truth, he would have to do it by hand.

    4. Re:Riight. . . by DoorFrame · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not really. I actually get paid in 1099s quite often, which don't act in the same way as W2s. Also, if you earn less than $600 on one 1099 the company doesn't need to report it... you could potential earn $599 from 1000 different corporations and walk away with $599,000 unreported and untaxed dollars that the government would only find out about if you were honest enough to report it.

    5. Re:Riight. . . by Deanasc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What about the retiree who does in fact only have a taxable income of 20G's but has saved in tax free bonds for the last 20 years. No income reported on the interest. In the case of my grandparents that interest is more then enough to cover the close to $15,000 in monthly expenses. Not everyone reporting a small income with a large lifestyle is ripping you off.

      --
      I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
    6. Re:Riight. . . by thisissilly · · Score: 5, Interesting
      If you're making $500 a month car payments and $1,500 a month mortgage payments and are reporting $20,000 a year in income, something's probably up,

      Sez who?

      The year I quit my job and went back to grad school I was paying about $600/month rent and $3000 for classes, and I made $6000 that year.

      It's call savings. I saved money from my three years of post-college work, allowing to me to live off savings that year. It's none of the government's business if I saved the money in a bank (on the books) or a mattress (off the books). I shouldn't have to prove anything to any investigator.

    7. Re:Riight. . . by DustMagnet · · Score: 5, Insightful
      So what? Your grandma gets investigated. She has nothing to hide. So after months of jumping through hoops and being accused of all kinds of thing she finally provides enough documentation to call off the hounds. I don't seen any problem with this kind of system, neither does Johnnie Thomas.

      I'm so sick of hearing the "nothing to hide" argument. I don't think most people really understand what it will be like to live under constant government monitoring. We'll have to not only obay the law, but a secret set of rules to avoid being accused of breaking the law.

      --
      'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
    8. Re:Riight. . . by leviramsey · · Score: 2, Informative

      But considering that the only tax-free bonds a citizen of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts can have are bonds issued by the Commonwealth (and thus able to be tracked by the Commonwealth), that could be an input into the program.

    9. Re:Riight. . . by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I shouldn't have to prove anything to any investigator.

      Why not?

      The law of the land is that we pay part of our income for our government. If you're being a jerk and hiding your money so it has no paper trail, why shouldn't you have to prove that you're not simply not paying your taxes?

      Even if you keep money under your matress, you should keep a record of how MUCH you have--if nothing else, then for sound fiscal responsiblity, notwithstanding the government and insurance.

    10. Re:Riight. . . by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Unless you kept all your money in a mattress, in which case have fun explaining that to the investigators."

      Hmm...since when did it become illegal to keep your money in a mattress...or anywhere else you want?

      :-)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    11. Re:Riight. . . by Elias+Serge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its called presumption of innocence. I shouldn't have to prove to the state that I'm innocent. The burden of proof needs to be on them. If I keep my savings in a mattress, then the govt. has to prove that I cheated on my taxes. By default, I an innocent regardless of my actions regarding the storage of my money.

    12. Re:Riight. . . by MoneyT · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Presumption of innocence is before the law. Would you like the IRS to take you to court and have you pay legal fees too? You are presumed innocent as the system processes everyone. It then finds something that's suspicious, and then the IRS examines it more closely. If they decide to ask for an explination, that is well within their rights. And it is well within your rights to not give them one. And then it is well within their rights to audit you and take you to court, where you are then innocent before the law.

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
    13. Re:Riight. . . by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why not? Because in the US, we don't have to prove our innocence to anyone. We're presumed innocent, until proven guilty.

      And when we're accused of crimes, we then prove that we're innocent, and all is well and good.

      There's a world of difference between "innocent until proven guilty" and "never have to prove anything." One is the absense of legal harm until you are proven wrong. The other is the total absence of responsibility.

      If your best answer to a police officer asking you "where were you last night?" is "I don't have to prove anything to you!", then you should wind up, at the least, with obstruction of justice.

  6. Does it find refunds for you? by swoebser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One would think this could be used the other way around to refund people who have overpaid. Who wants to take bets on whether they'll monitor for this as well? My money is on "not a chance."

    1. Re:Does it find refunds for you? by mike_mgo · · Score: 5, Informative
      I'll take that bet.

      The Revenue Department has spent about $3 million over the last two years on the program, which has generated a total of $43 million in new tax revenue and $6 million in refunds. (Yes, the system identifies overpayers, too.)

  7. MA tax forms aren't that hard to auto-generate... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Informative

    One thing to note here is that it would be very easy for the state to fill out tax paperwork for the taxpayer in MA. I'm an MA taxpayer, and I did my taxes recently with TurboTax. After completing the federal portion, there were very few questions the state software needed to ask me.

    - Did I want to pay the voluntary 5.85% tax rate instead of the standard 5.3% tax rate? (No!)
    - Did I have any use tax items to declare? (Nope, and if anybody asks further I plead the 5th.)
    - Would I like some of my tax money to go to the state's Clean Elections Fund? (Sure, why not?)

    Beyond those little things, TurboTax could complete my pages of state tax forms simply by porting over the values from the IRS forms that had already been completed. So, since the state can already look at my IRS forms anyway, why not have them compute my taxes for me, and automatically send me the already-completed paperwork attached to the bill or refund?

  8. tough call by detritus` · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As much as i hate the idea of any state having this much information on anybody, I also hate the idea of people getting away with scamming the gov't out of money (thats the politicians job) especially when the majority of the people getting away with this are the people who can afford to pay said taxes. After all how often do you hear of someone with a $20K/year job bragging about how much he hid away in various tax shelters? Of course the people that this would hurt most is those in the service industry, who claim only 10-20% of their income from tips.

    1. Re:tough call by DAldredge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about the state not spend so much fucking money? Is it really that hard?

    2. Re:tough call by Maclir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So what don't you want the state to spend money on? Education? Improving roads? Medicaid?

    3. Re:tough call by Dukael_Mikakis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have to agree with the parent. Generally, those who will be affected most are those with some substantial money and knowledge to use sophisticated tax shelters. Obviously, these will usually be businesses (big corporations) and high-powered investors. Typically, somebody making $20K won't have the means or the savvy to cheat taxes with anything more sophisticated than merely lying.

      Which is, of course, why some "little guys" will get hurt. I used to wait tables (during college) and many servers would claim only 10% of sales (assuming an average of 15% tips), some would only claim credit card slips (because they are recorded), and some wouldn't claim tips at all. Dangerous because the whole restaurant could get audited, but as far as I know it never did. Of course, many of these people were strapped for cash in one way or another, so it'd be kind of sad how it affects them.

      I don't, however, see this as a "Big Brother" thing if there's no direct invasion of our privacy beyond what is already occurring. It says that this tactic collects data it already has and analyzes it to determine potential cheats. The information is already there, it is, I imagine, Massachusetts' right to use it. And at $1M a week, hopefully they put some good use to it.

      And hopefully they'll be able to more easily detect and nail Enron/Ken Lay/etc. sorts of investors who act beyond their capacities.

    4. Re:tough call by mikerich · · Score: 2, Insightful
      How about the state not spend so much fucking money? Is it really that hard?

      Fortunately democracy allows you to remedy such matters by voting the higher taxing party out of government.

      So either the people of Massechusetts are negligent and are forgetting to use their constitutional rights, or they are reasonably happy with their tax levels.

      Best wishes,
      Mike.

    5. Re:tough call by DAldredge · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Spend money on educating kids, not on the admin that run the damn schools. You can't tell me that you honestly believe that state goverment is ran as efficently as possible.

    6. Re:tough call by the_mad_poster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      First, since the PA legislature has proven itself to be a wholly ineffective system run by ignorant dolts, they could eliminate their automatic pay raises, pet funds, and "perks". Why the fuck they should be able to make the taxpayers pay for half of their goddamn BMW (or an entire Taurus or Impala) when they're making 60K+ per year and can't even pass a fucking budget?.

      Then, they could slash the shit out of the pay of the administration that's trying to turn the state schools here into diploma mills for morons with revolving part-time teachers and vastly lowered standards.

      After they do that, they could quit paying the many levels of beauracracy in PennDOT that are causing basic reconstruction and maintenance tasks to take three, four, five years at a time over a single 1/2 mile stretch of road.

      Oh yea... government spends it's money reeeaaallll well. If I blew my money like these idiots do, I'd be living in a fucking cardboard box down by the river. Frankly, if I thought I could get away with it, I'd cheat them on my taxes based on the fact that all they ever seem to do with the money is waste it anyway.

      --
      Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    7. Re:tough call by Bourbonium · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your last paragraph is a bit misleading. The level of overhead in California's state government is greater than you even imagine. I work for the state government (as a contractor) and I see the colossal waste firsthand. Not only could we save millions of dollars by better implementing open source solutions, we could save even more by doing the same kind of belt-tightening that private businesses have to do in tough economic times.

      Unionized state employees are exempt from layoffs, even though most of them are worthless layabouts who probably would be among the first sent packing if they were working in the private sector (assuming any private corporation would even hire them). They simply cannot be fired, no matter how poorly they perform.

      It was the California State Employees Association that twisted Gray Davis' arm to give them a 5% pay raise in exchange for their endorsement just before the 2002 election, at a time when he knew damned well the state couldn't afford it. The Prison Guard union asked for even more payback, and he gladly gave it to them. Now that Arnold is in the governors' office, he's asking both unions to re-negotiate their contracts because he knows that when all other California citizens have had to forego raises (even the Teacher's Union, for chrissakes), only these two ended up getting more money out of the taxpayers. And he knows that the money still isn't there to pay them without borrowing it from somwhere else.

      On the IT side (the one I work in), we were all informed that the State of California is an all Microsoft shop. We had a major project to migrate all our servers off Novell NetWare and move to Windows NT. We still have most of our infrastructure running on NT4 and only a few servers have been upgraded to Win2K/Win2K3. Imagine our surprise when the Oracle scandal broke and we found out that in exchange for a $25,000 campaign contribution, Gray Davis had purchase more seat licenses for Oracle database software than there were employees in the government! And at the time, most of us were training for Microsoft SQL2000 as our primary database platform.

      This is the kind of corruption that sparked the recall in the first place. I don't know if Arnold will be able to fix it, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

  9. Has Anyone Actually Seen Massachusetts Tax Forms? by Beeman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you haven't had a chance to look at Massachusetts tax forms, I would highly reccomend them as reading for how not to write an informative document. It takes me half as much time to fill out the Federal 1040 Long Form, so I wuld be happy for the state to fill out my tax forms for me.

  10. They could complete the returns by haystor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    but they won't.

    They'd never accept the liability for doing the returns.

    We're left with all the intrusions and none of the benefits.

    Am I the only one that wishes the IRS would sent me a summary of what has been reported to them? At least that way I could reconcile *before* signing my name to something.

    --
    t
    1. Re:They could complete the returns by lysander · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, they could still complete them for us, and as part of the normal submission process make us certify that they are correct. Note that they already make us do this.

      --
      GET YOUR WEAPONS READY! --DR.LIGHT
    2. Re:They could complete the returns by cK-Gunslinger · · Score: 2, Interesting


      I'm going to have to agree with you. I think it would make things much simpler if I received both my W-2s *and* a completed tax return from the IRS/State. Then I could have the option of either signing and returning it or disputing it and filling out my own. The IRS could simply process those returns that were unmodified and only use extra resources on those that were reworked. That might streamline the process and save some money, depending on how many tax returns are *right* the first time.

    3. Re:They could complete the returns by haystor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I certainly understand that my employers send me this information. But it would be nice to be able to check that everyone is on the same page.

      I had an employer make a few payments to me as a contractor when they paid me as an employee the entire rest of the year. This was not noticed until a couple years later and my "contract" money had no taxes paid.

      If I'd received a statement from the IRS with two line items from the same company I'd have surely gotten my taxes right and avoided about $800 in interst.

      There are also a few people out there that are victims of identity theft where their ssn's get used and reported.

      The information is there, my question is why can't I get at it directly? Isn't it reasonable to expect the IRS to tell me what they expect of me in concrete terms?

      --
      t
    4. Re:They could complete the returns by Eccles · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Liability? What liability? This is the government; they get to choose whether or not they can be sued.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
  11. Article has a typo... by bongoras · · Score: 5, Funny

    It says "The Boston Globe reports that the Massachusetts state Revenue Department has launched a new technology offensive"...

    It should say "The Boston Globe reports that the Massachusetts state Revenue Department has launched a new offensive technology"

  12. So basically it works like this. by bad+enema · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Here's your form. Fill it out. We could just do it for you, but we're too lazy for that. We'd rather see if we can catch you cutting corners. It's a fun little game we like to play around here. They give points for every evildoing tax form we catch. Brian's leading this week but I'm gaining on him...."

  13. Use tax: The most cheated on tax ever. by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you live in a state that has a sales tax, you can't really avoid taxes by shopping online, by phone, or by mail. Yeah, you avoid the sales tax, but by causing to have imported into the state a taxable item you owe a use tax, which is usually equal to exactly the sales tax you would have had to pay on an in-state transaction.

    The problem is, for an individual, it's hard to collect a use tax on most things. Your state can't ask an out-of-state vendor for their sales records because they're out-of-state and therefore not under your state's jurisdiction. They can't really force you to give a true answer because you have the ability to plead the Fifth Amendment if you're ever accused of not paying a use tax you should have.

    It's a problem the states have wanted to solve ever since online shopping got big, but there hasn't exactly been a breakthrough. The states that don't have a sales tax have no reason to help the states that do. Tax classifications can vary from state to state, or even county to county or city by city, so computing what tax is really owed is a complex task that nobody wants to do either. So, it's still one of those problems in the unsolved bin at this moment.

    1. Re:Use tax: The most cheated on tax ever. by mcwop · · Score: 4, Funny
      Massachusetts Department Of Revenue
      PO Box 7007
      Boston, MA 02204

      Dear John Doe Taxpayer,

      Recently we discovered the purchase of equipment over the internet, for which no use tax was paid. Please remit $50 plus $25 in penalties for the following items:

      • TX25 Super Dildo $500
      • Best of Jenna Jameson DVD Collection $100
      • Hello Clitty Leatherette S&M Collection $400

      This letter is now a matter of public record. You have 30 days to pay penalties, and back tax.

      Sincerely,
      MA DOR

      --

      "I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX

    2. Re:Use tax: The most cheated on tax ever. by tgd · · Score: 2, Funny

      What the hell are you doing going through my mailbox?

    3. Re:Use tax: The most cheated on tax ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dear Mass DOR,

      These were business related expenses about and thus a tax credit is due. Included is a sample of my work.

      Thank You,
      John Doe Taxpayer

  14. Newsflash by Red+Rocket · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Most citizens' financial information is already known by the government. Working people pay taxes through paycheck withholding. The only ones who can cheat on their taxes in any significant way are corporations who are basically on the honor system when it comes to paying taxes these days. That's who this kind of system is designed to detect. Don't believe the hype. Working people are being ripped off by corporate tax cheats. The tax burden is being shifted to the middle and upper-middle classes while the elites get off scott free.

    --
    - Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
    1. Re:Newsflash by Red+Rocket · · Score: 2, Informative


      Publically held corporations are required by law to have an independant accounting firm file their financial statements.

      Hah! You said "independant accounting firm!" What a joke, dude. You don't really believe they're independent do you?

      Look at what happened to Arthur Anderson after the Enron fiasco-...

      And look how the rules changed after that happened. Oh, wait, they didn't change, did they? Sarbanes-Oxley? Give me a break.

      --
      - Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
    2. Re:Newsflash by bahwi · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lord forbid anyone go to the bookstore and learn how to do it too. Or even the library.

      Work earns you money, and a penny saved is a penny earned.

      Get the Rich Dad Poor Dad books, best on the market IMO.

    3. Re:Newsflash by Red+Rocket · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Why the hell should we change the rules? Arthur Anderson broke the rules, and they were punished. The existing rules were sufficient. Just because somebody breaks the rules doesn't mean they need to be changed.

      OK. If you insist on being naive and dense...
      Arthur Anderson was not only providing auditing services for Enron. They were also providing other financial services and consulting. This is a conflict of interest in that it encouraged them to hide information from Enron's board of directors that indicated Enron was cheating. The more squirrelly Enron's books became, the more money AA made by helping them hide it. (Not that Enron's board would have done anything anyway -- they were just as crooked.)

      Nothing has been done about this conflict. Auditing firms are still allowed to provide other financial services that they then turn around and audit. That's what needs to be changed, Pollyanna.

      --
      - Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
  15. The only downside of Slashdot by mental_telepathy · · Score: 3, Insightful


    Is that the reactions are too easy to predict. Personally, I like seeing tax cheats get caught, because it means I pay less. As long as there a legitmate system for addressing grievances, I don't see a problem. Big Brother is an overused cliche.

    1. Re:The only downside of Slashdot by iminplaya · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally, I like seeing tax cheats get caught, because it means I pay less.

      No it doesn't. It just means the gov't gets more. It is dilussional to think that if they caught all the tax "cheats" that they wil reduce your taxes. Same goes for retailers vs. shoplifters, insurance companies vs. fraud.

      As long as there a legitmate system for addressing grievances,...

      When they put one in, let me know...ok?

      --
      What?
    2. Re:The only downside of Slashdot by JimBobJoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      insurance companies vs. fraud.

      Insurance fraud is interesting. It happens mainly in states with very uncompetitive insurance environments, and therefore have high prices.

      Car insurance is terribly important, but often people feel like they aren't getting anything out of it, which is the point, it's property insurance. So the more people pay in car insurance, the more they feel ripped off, the more likely it is they will consider insurance fraud.

      New Jersey spends all its time trying to figure out why it has an uncompetitive market, and reducing insurance fraud. The problem is one in the same.

  16. Taxes taken out... by DoorFrame · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, unless those people cashing their checks are being paid under the table, they are probably having taxes taken out for them based on their income linked to their social security number. It doesn't matter how you cash the check, the company has filed what it paid the person with the social security number to the government on their tax return.

    And even if taxes aren't taken out, if the person is making over $600 he/she's being 1099'd and again the business is going to be reporting that amount to the government on their tax return.

    There are a number of things that still won't be accurately tracked, but it's going to be remarkably easy to keep track of what people are earning from honest and legally operated businesses.

  17. Good thing I only get paid in ... by burgburgburg · · Score: 4, Funny
    pancakes. Let'em try to track them. Let'em try to tax them. I dare them.

    Now where the hell is the syrup?!?

  18. You know who's to blame by gsfprez · · Score: 4, Funny
    all those damn conservative massachusetts Republicans.... running the whole state into the ground with their damn personal invasions and tax increases on the people.

    I swear, if that place was run by loving, caring democrats, this wouldn't be happening.

    /its a joke, laugh, damnit

    --
    guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
  19. Taxachusetts... by rqqrtnb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Land of Liberals, Loons, and DOUBLE TAXATION

    Greetings from Taxachusetts, the Land of Ted the Lifeguard!

    The Commonwealth of Massachusetts has an entity called the Massachusetts Department of Revenue. The DOR puts the IRS to shame.

    File your taxes late with the IRS, they hit you with interest and penalties. So be it. They are the IRS, they are above the law.

    File your taxes late with the Mass DOR, they hit you with interest and penalties. And then they hit you AGAIN. Yes indeedy, folks: it's DOUBLE-DIPPING DAZE FOR THE TAXING AUTHORITIES!!!

    Bottom line: a little-knownstate law allows the taxing authorities to DOUBLE your base tax, interest, and penalties.

    Be warned: DO NOT BECOME REMISS IN PAYING YOUR FAIRSHARE(tm) in MASSACHUSETTS LEST YOU END UP PAYING IT TWICE.

    This is fact, not troll or flamebait. But it does help to explain why the Commonwealth is a pro-welfare-parasite, anti-working-taxpayer zone.
    Could it be that the lack of Republican representation hereabouts has something to do with this?

  20. You Fools by Deanasc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You had the chance to avoid this by voting out the state income tax last year. Now the MassDOR will be F-ing you with an elephant sized dick.

    Good work.

    I know I'm trolling. No need to remind me.

    --
    I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
  21. 4th Amendment anyone? by erick99 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I can't blame the state for trying to track down folks who cheat on their taxes. However, I don't think I want the tax people showing up on my doorstep if I happen to get a car as a gift from a rich uncle but I clearly don't earn enough to otherwise own that car.

    I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert but something about pulling this data together and possibly going on "witch hunts" smacks of "unreasonable search..." Either way, it's scary.

    Happy Trails!

    Erick

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
  22. Complete my taxes? Good! by DoorFrame · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I work a number of different jobs throughout the year, and have to deal with the considerable annoyance of having each one attempt to deduce what my yearly earnings are going to be and tax me accordingly.

    The jobs that pay me $200/week (even if I'm only working two days there) will take out almost no taxes becuase they assume I'm making $10,000/year. When I'm paid $2000 for one week of work, I get taxed on the ludicrous assumption that I'm going to be making $100,000/year. Neither assumption is accurate and both leave the government taking out a grossly incorrect percent of my wages in tax anticipation.

    Why can't the government compile a system that will help companies to estimate what my tax payment should be not simply by what I'm being paid in the current week, but by looking back over the whole last year and seeing how much I've made this tax-year (through different employers) and what that average income is going to end up being near.

    Better yet, why can't we come up with a system that doesn't depend upon weird estimates as the year goes on, but allows you to announce at the beginning what your income is going to be near and then simply take out the percent that that tax bracket would warrant. Then, if you were accurate, you'd have no refund and no taxes do and you could just fold everything up and go home.

    Damned taxes.

  23. They COULD.. by dk.r*nger · · Score: 2, Informative

    ..but the shouldn't. Or rather we (you, as I'm not in the US) shouldn't let them.

    Not because it is Big Brother, but it would be all to easy to just add new taxes whenever the state needs money.

    In that the taxpayer has to relate to his own taxes, instead of just paying another bill every month, there is a substatial amount of government control by the people.

    How many you guys check your phonebills if it is $10 or even $20 above average one month? Sure, alot of people do, but even more just pays. You don't want this atitude towards taxes too!

  24. And now people will begin getting it by TyrranzzX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They call them "tax cheats", we call them "people who can't pay taxes because if they did, they'd starve to death or couldn't cloth themselves". Interesting how in today's world the goverment's mouth comes before your kids' mouths, huh? But that's an old arguement. Just because unenployment is skyrocketing, our country is going into great debt, and the US prison industry is the fastest growing of them all is no reason to fear this one.

    So, lets say the goverment decides they want to pass a totalitarian-like tax, say something rediculous like internet tax or media tax; they now have the enforcability. So if you decide to feed your kids instead of pay your taxes, guess what happens? Right into the knocker. And if orphanages become overfilled with kids, those kids go into any home that wants them, for any thing.

    There are other people who don't pay taxes because they simply can't afford to. They have to pay rent to their slum lord to stay in their nice shithole apartment, or pay for food, clothing, college, car, car repairs, gas, etc. These people also have home buisnesses; a lot of computer technicians have started their own repair shops or networking contracts out of their home, and they live contract to contract and make barely enough to get by. What if they had to make 40% more?

    1. Re:And now people will begin getting it by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not even going to touch your assertion that enforcement of tax evaders is going to cause a return to a Debtors' Prison system and overcrowding of orphanages, eventually culminating in a child slave trade -- that's aburd on its face.

      What I would like to see is some evidence supporting your other assertion, that people who fail to pay taxes do so largely because it would be a financial hardship for them to do so. Do you have any studies which support this conclusion? With the tax laws as they are now, many poor taxpayers actually end up with a tax liability of $0 at the end of the year.

  25. As a friend of mine once noted... by Joseph+Vigneau · · Score: 4, Funny

    "If cash were invented today, it would be illegal."

  26. Well, What Did You Expect, Anyway? by susano_otter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Information wants to be free", right?

    Hasn't this been the whole point of the last century of effort in the field of computing? The constant push for faster processors? The drive for larger, faster storage, in smaller form factors? The constant advances in memory efficiency and effectiveness? For generations now, everybody has been working for smaller, cheaper, faster, computing--working very successfully at it.

    Everybody wants it. Everybody wants their information to be more portable, more accessible. That's what the Internet is for. That's why relational databases were invented. That's why SQL and cross-platform development tools are so important. That's why everybody is lusting after Wi-Fi.

    It's all so that more information can move with greater speed over greater distances, and be organized and studied with greater ease. That's what you've been working for. That's what you want. It's what everybody wants. The academics who used the original ARPAnet want it. The government wants it. The Open Source community wants it. Microsoft wants it. Your boss wants it. You want it. I want it.

    Privacy was an illusion, perpetuated for millenia by a lack of technology. But the information is out there. It always has been. And you want it to be free. Now, you're finally getting what you want, and it's only going to get cheaper and easier from here.

    Everything is going according to plan. Your plan.

    --

    Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

    1. Re:Well, What Did You Expect, Anyway? by websensei · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "Privacy was an illusion, perpetuated for millenia by a lack of technology."


      I'd just chuckle, shake my head and ignore this, except it got moderated Socre: 5, Insightful.

      It's preposterous.
      By this logic, "Clean air and water was an illusion, perpetuated by a lack of pollution."

      From the tone of the original post, it seems tongue-in-cheek, and it's kind of funny. But for the moderators and subsequent readers who take it seriously? Think hard before you shrug and decide that the concept of personal privacy is merely an illusion -- or else before long it will be.

      --

      La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
    2. Re:Well, What Did You Expect, Anyway? by Unknown+Kadath · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Information may or may not want to be free. That's not the point, and I'm not going to get into it here.

      The point is: until such time as all information is completely, 100%, easily-available-to-all free, as long as there is a gradient, information is power. And history has proven that you want to be very careful to whom you hand power.

      I wouldn't care if the details of my life were collated and indexed if:
      -There were controls in place to catch and prosecute those who abused the data (eg. identity theft).
      -There were transparency and equality in the system...I could see the President's data just as well as he could see mine.
      -I could be assured that I would not be discriminated against or targeted if I were not "normal." Say, gay. Or a Slashdot poster.

      -Carolyn

      --
      Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
    3. Re:Well, What Did You Expect, Anyway? by susano_otter · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "Privacy was an illusion, perpetuated for millenia by a lack of technology."

      I admit to indulging in hyperbole, with that statement. But your rebuttal-by-analogy is kinda weak. You said

      By this logic, "Clean air and water was an illusion, perpetuated by a lack of pollution."

      Clean air and water are concrete things, easily measurable. They can be evaluated according to biological standards. Pollution can be counted as a physical quantity, and judged according to ccertain absolute criteria for health.

      Privacy is an abstract concept. Of what does it consist? It consists essentially of me having information that others do not have, and me having control over the spread of that information. But one of the reasons others know so little about me is not because I only act "in private", where nobody else can see me. I act in public all the time, and leave traces of my information everywhere I go. The only reason I still have privacy is because the information I leave lying around, "loose", is too thinly spread, and too poorly organized, and too difficult to collect and study in one place, for anybody else to learn anything useful about me unless I consciously and explicitly tell them.

      In short, a huge part of what we think of as "privacy" hinges on the technological limitations of actually making sense of all my public information. And it is exactly these technological limitations that so many people, in so many sectors, have been working so diligently for so long to overcome.

      It's true that government also has the technology to place a laser on your window and listen to your every word. But just because they have the technology doesn't make it ok to do.

      That's not what we're talking about, though. We're talking about "loose" information, that for lack of cheap, effective technology, has never been gathered together in one place and properly analyzed. As the technology for that sort of thing advances, becoming cheaper and better, the government won't need to shoot spybeams at your windows--they'll know everything they need to know simply by studying the concatenated information about all your public acts and transactions.

      The idea that mankind is limited to walking speed was an illusion facilitated by millenia without horseback riding, the railroad, and the airplane. Does this mean that the police should not use automobiles, because then they might go fast enough to catch more criminals than appropriate? Of course not.

      --

      Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

    4. Re:Well, What Did You Expect, Anyway? by websensei · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought my counterargument was clear, in the way of a more obvious example (repeating it here):

      By this logic, "Clean air and water was an illusion, perpetuated by a lack of pollution."

      It's the same thing. Privacy DID (and to some degree, still does) exist. Just because the application of certain technologies may undermine or eliminate this privacy, in no way makes the concept nor existence of such privacy an illusion.
      In the same skein, the existence of acid rain doesn't make the idea of pure/clean rainwater an illusion. How is this not clear?

      To clarify further:
      I did not argue against the entire post (in a nutshell, "we all want faster computers and systems and high availability of [CERTAIN KINDS OF] informtation") ... but I argue vehemently against his claim that privacy is an unimportant illusion.

      So when he says it's "part of [my!] Plan" that this development of technology should entail a concomitant elimination of personal privacy, my response is "no fucking way", albeit in kinder terms. Not my plan. Not the EFF's plan. Not the plan of most intellectuals, coders, and other educated thinking people who are gravely concerned about the implications of this emerging age of transparency.

      It's one thing to say "privacy is being threatened".
      It's completely different (and IMO wrong) to say "privacy never existed, and it doesn't matter anyway, since this [disappearance] is what you want".

      This is so obvious to me, and in my experience so in line with the /. demographic's general sympathies, I took the original post as a joke -- a joke that went over the heads of the moderators who marked it "insightful" instead of funny.

      Apparently (based on mods and your reply) it is being taken seriously, and agreed with. Which I find surprising and unfortunate.

      Thoughts?

      --

      La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
  27. Tax corporations, not people by wytcld · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are those who argue that having both individual and corporate income taxes results in double taxation, since whatever corporations take in goes to individuals, whether employees or stockholders, who are taxed on that amount. So let's end double taxation by abolishing the income tax for individuals and taxing only corporations. This is the only way to avoid an immanent future where governments intrude far-too-far onto individual privacy rights.

    Would people just avoid doing business in corporate form in order to avoid taxation if we did this? No, most people would rather have the protection from individual legal liability which "corporate cover" provides. Tax would be seen as a form of insurance well worth it for any enterprise facing significant liability potential - which is any business large enough to have enough customers that a statistical likelihood of injury due to its products or services exists.

    Of course criminal corporations (like the Mob) might start ducking taxes. Oh, wait....

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
    1. Re:Tax corporations, not people by saros · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In other words, implement the most regressive taxation possible, since taxes will be passed on evenly to all consumers whether they make $12K/year or $250K/year. But we agree on one thing: double taxation doesn't make a lot of sense.

      I have a better idea. Let's eliminate taxes on corporations and pay for everything solely by a progressive individual income tax. That way the people who benefit from the status quo are the ones paying for the status quo.

      It's never made sense to me why anyone, liberal or conservative, would want to tax corporations. From a conservative standpoint, it places an unnecessary drag on the free market, and introduces a pernicious incentive for corporations to directly meddle in politics. From a liberal standpoint corporations provide a social good it would be better to maximize: jobs and economic activity (albeit as a side effect of their actual function, generating profits). Besides, if you think about it, corporations, since they aren't human, can neither enjoy the benefits of government services, nor suffer by their lack. Only individual people can.

      As it stands, I think corporate taxes (as long as they can be passed on to consumers) are seen by the wealthy as a way to hide an extra 15% sales tax on all goods and services from those who make less that $35K.

      --
      -- Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?
  28. Tax Form Internal Consistency Check by 4of12 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's a timely story for those of you filling out your federal tax return for Uncle Sam this spring.

    According to my tax preparer, one of the ways they decide whether to audit a particular return is to correlate the adjusted gross income against ZIP code. Generally, areas segregate into rich and poor neighborhoods.

    Persons in poor ZIP codes who have unusually high incomes would be singled out (Mr Coke Dealer that wants to avoid Al Capone's downfall - income tax evasion) on the one hand.

    Then, people in wealthy ZIP codes with no visible means of support (again, illicit gains and unreported income).

    It all goes to show that intelligent data mining can make much better use of the information already available. No need for John Ashcroft to review my frequent shopper card purchases.

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
  29. Darn Right Wingers by provolt · · Score: 2, Funny

    Those darn right wing republicans! Taking every chance they get to take away our freedom. If we can get President Bush out of the Whitehouse, then maybe we start getting rid of the vast amounts of Republicans in the Mass. State Gov't.

  30. Hmmmm....I must say.... by hbean · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't much care for the invasion of privacy...but I do like the idea of not having to do taxes. Grumble. Grumble. Grumble.

    --
    "Give someone a program, frustrate them for a day... Teach someone to program, frustrate them for a lifetime."
  31. Tax Voodoo by victor_the_cleaner · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dealing with states on taxes, specifically non-income tax related items is somewhat of a joke.

    A friend who has a large retail operation on Florida once received a visit from the state. State said, you owe $91K in uncollected sales taxes according to our records. The state was really a single rep who most likely would receive incentives based upon the amount he collected.

    Needless to say my friend hired an outside accountant to review everything and look at the claims. With some interesting results.

    State agent returns to collect the money. My friend presents him with documentation and says, "we reviewed everything, and looks like we don't owe you $91K, in fact we overpaid $15K, so we need a refund."

    Agent looked everything over, and said, he'd drop the claim and they'd call it even.

  32. How is this your rights online? by Sleepy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Someone please tell me how this is a violation of my rights? Seriously. I am normally protective of my liberties but I do not see the connection.

    Should the poster feel violated that he may get caught cheating on tobacco taxes?

    By the very act of taxing tobacco, hasn't the government been already GRANTED (by the people) this power? I'm assuming that data existed before for people who did NOT cheat, and made some kind of non-cash transaction that required paperwork.

    Tax cheating is not a "questionable accounting practice" -- it's shirking your societal obligations and shafting your neighbor with your bill. It's a crime and obviously the penalties are a joke. Forget fining them... send them to Texas for 12 months, so they can make blue jeans and sneakers in the state jails.

    Or does the poster feel 'violated' because the government "knows" he purchased tobacco? Woopie. It's a taxable item.

    It's not as bad as say, the government illegally tapping your telephone because you buy cous-cous and goat cheeze, violating due-process, Geneva convention un-enforcement, or even FCC censorship crackdowns for the public display of a female nipple.

    Please find a real issue to complain about.

  33. they should be focusing on corporations by TheUberBob · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm amused that some people think this helps them catch corporate catch cheats. It doesn't. Many of them are serenaded into a state with subsidies and tax breaks anyway. Even if they weren't, tax shelters are so prevalent and hard for the IRS to track down that it's estimated that 50-80 billion a year (nationally) is lost to corporate tax evasion. You could fund free health care with that. But you can't, not until the government chooses to get tough on tax evasion... and to pull that off means they either also have to get tough on importers (workers rights/health care/environmental laws in other countries) or stop the running Free Trade joke and have a more protective economy.

    --

    All your preview button are belong to Hello Kitty.
  34. Re:fyi, turbotax has spyware in it by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's an old story. This year's version actually allows you to install the software on multiple PCs in a household in the license terms, most likely as a reaction to last year's scandal.

  35. DIY by Lord+Dreamshaper · · Score: 2, Funny

    "the state could complete the citizens' returns for them" Great! They going to pay them for me too?

    --
    When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
  36. Orwellian? by betelgeuse-4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...but the potential is rather Orwellian."

    Why is it so fashionable these days to call things Orwellian when they obvious aren't. I recently saw an excellent BBC documentary on North Korea, and it really reminded of 1984.

    Unless you've been commiting serious tax evasion, I doubt you have much to fear. And if you have, I hope this new initiative helps to catch you. People not paying tax raises the amount those of us that do have to pay.

  37. Ape Overlords my Friend by Knight55 · · Score: 2, Funny

    They've been plotting for years...

    --
    1888 Franklin St.
  38. Re:Has Anyone Actually Seen Massachusetts Tax Form by wwest4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    so instead of demanding a simpler form, you'd be willing to have them calculate something owed to them that's near impossible to double-check?

    even credit card companies are not that dubious with their policies.

    something tells me that the same people who are willing to accept a basically unaccountable bill from the government are the same people who don't bother to vote or pay attention to what bureaucrats are doing with our tax dollars.

  39. Cash - it's everywhere you want to be by dobedobedew · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know this may seem obvious, but it will probably just make cash a more often-used form of payment. At least, when that's an option. This is IMHO just another case of the crack-down on the "mostly" law-abiding citizens of the country. There are much worse things the government should be spending resources on.

    But of course, it's still all about the $$$. Easy revenue stream, big target.

  40. Pay my taxes by Corbets · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Alan LeBovidge predicted the state may eventually be able to track so much financial information on individuals that the state could complete the citizens' returns for them.

    If I thought they could get it right, I'd be all about that. No more accountants, no more paperwork, just pay my freaking taxes and be done with it.

    Begin hidden conservative agenda: Of course, it'd be even easier for them to do if they implemented a flat tax across the board. :)

  41. $2.5 Billion Tax Cheat by sirbone · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Some may praise the tax collectors for getting all the money from tax fraudsters. But there is anoter side of this that should be considered. I don't know the stats for MA, so I will use the IRS as an example. The IRS web sites says that it has $2.5 billion that it owes people for the year 2000. It says that if the money is not claimed then the IRS keeps it for good. There are a few issues with this.

    * If they know that they owe $2.5 billion then they must know who they owe it to. So why do they not return it? Compare that to what happens if you do not give them money they think belongs to them.

    * If they do not want to return it to its owners then why not disperse it through universal income tax credits rather than keeping it? In other words, they engage in what for a private citizen would be "tax fraud".

    * So some people cheat on their taxes. This is offset some by the IRS keeping money that is not theirs. Thus in the interest of fairness, until a tax collection agency cracks down on themselves kepeing money that is not "theirs" (though saying a tax collection agency "owns" any of the money it collects is a bit absurd...), we should oppose such agencies cracking down on us.

    --
    "The State is that great fiction by which everyone lives at the expense of everyone else." -Frederic Bastiat.
  42. Simpsons Quote! by Wedge1212 · · Score: 2, Funny

    good ol "Taxachusetts"

    --
    See Sig! See Sig Zig! Zig Sig Zig!!!!!
  43. Take your BS propaganda elsewhere please... by toupsie · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Just because unenployment is skyrocketing, our country is going into great debt, and the US prison industry is the fastest growing of them all is no reason to fear this one.

    You obviously don't understand the term "skyrocketing". Skyrocketing unemployment would be that of a country like Germany which is around 10%. Ours is going down -- the opposite of skyrocketing. The current unemployment rate is lower than the average unemployment rate of the "booming" 90s. Much lower than the highly enlightened European Union. Much of our country's history has been spent in debt, the key is the percentage of the debt versus the GDP of the nation. Debt is not the problem, its the ability of the nation to manage that debt and make the payments in relation to the country's ability to produce goods and services that people want to obtain. And there is a good reason that the prison population is rising, there are bunch of jerks in this country that need to be locked up that we haven't been locking up in the past. That is why we are seeing a declining crime rate for the last several years. It is very hard for criminals to prey on society when they are locked up behind bars.

    Also, the best thing this Government could do is take food out of kids' mouths. Have you seen how freaking fat kids are today? My God, its like we have an army of Fat Alberts running (er, walking) around these days. In fact, the biggest health risk for "impoverished" American children is obesity. If you want to see real poverty it's not in this country. Our poor get cable TV.

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    1. Re:Take your BS propaganda elsewhere please... by disposable60 · · Score: 2, Informative

      'Unemployment' as defined by the US Feds consists of people currently drawing unemployment benefits. Once your benefits run out, job or no, you're no longer unemployed. Now consider the unwillingness of the feds to extend UI benefits - lots of unemployed folks suddenly stop showing up in the numbers.

      --
      You're looking for quotes? See my journal.
  44. Coming Soon... by Loki_1929 · · Score: 3, Funny

    "While denying the state is playing 'Big Brother', the Revenue Department Commissioner, Alan LeBovidge predicted the state may eventually be able to track so much financial information on individuals that the state could complete the citizens' returns for them."

    Automated government wallet-raping, coming soon to a tax office near YOU!.

    [Avg Citizen] "Please just tell me how money I have to pay to not be thrown in jail."

    --
    -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  45. Here's my problem with the use tax... by MadAnthony02 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If I buy something in another state with a lower tax, in theory I have to pay taxes to my state to make up the difference. But it doesn't work the other way around. I don't get a refund for buying something in a higher tax state when I live in a lower tax state. If the government(s) don't seem to play fair, but rather to maximize profit, can you expect citizens to do any differently?

    Case in point. I moved from a state with 6% sales tax to one with 5%. I had to retitle my car, and if I had bought it in a state with a lower tax, I would have to pay the government of my state the sales tax difference between my state and theirs - but there is no refund for a higher to lower. And this isn't just for people who just bought their cars in another state - I bought the car 2 years earlier.

  46. hate to defend the Unelected One but... by rbird76 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...gov'ts would have done this earlier - while the Patriot Act presumably made some information easier to get that gov'ts would not have otherwise have gotten, the main impetus driving this collection is the ability to gather personal and financial data using the internet. Once that capability came along, it was only a matter of time. Bush didn't make it possible - the tech did. Once the capacity is there, people want to use to best enhance their power, and bureaucracies (sic) are no different.

    Also remember that both Democrats and Republicans gave us the Patriot Act and its spawn - while Ashcroft (and by consequence GWB) can take the blame for some of its misuse, they didn't give themselves this power - our elected representatives did. Something to remember come November.

  47. Re:MA tax forms aren't that hard to auto-generate. by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
    > because now you're trusting turbo-tax instead of the state to correctly interpret the tax code for your situation.
    >
    > doing it yourself, or having a 3rd party accountant or software do it is the way you keep the revenue service honest - true to their own convoluted, overly-complex rules.

    Doing it yourself also makes it blatantly clear to you that the tax code has nothing to do with raising revenue, and everything to do with social engineering.

    Seriously. With respect to those who died on the Challenger, did we really need Congress to direct the IRS to spend time writing up "Astronauts Who Die In The Line Of Duty" guidelines for the 2003 tax year? Do we really need laws that micromanage our lives to the point that seven people on the entire planet (maybe 6, I'm not sure if the law covers the Israeli, but if he earned that income from NASA, perhaps he also has to dual-file with the IRS) get a tax break?

    If the goal of tax policy is the collection of revenue to fund projects that the State has decided to commit resources to, the answer is "no".

    If the goal of tax policy is to remind the serfs who is Lord and who is Serf, and that the Serfs had goddamn well better keep in their place if they know what's good for them, then the answer is "yes".

    Do your taxes by hand with a calculator. And decide for yourself on the basis of your observations, what the tax code is really all about.

    Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens' What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

    -Rand, Atlas Shrugged

    I'm not gonna go Randroid and suggest that taxes should be abolished. I'm not even gonna go with my personal opinion that taxes should be reduced.

    As someone who lives in America, the land that spends $200 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR in complying with ITS OWN GODDAMN TAX CODE, I am going to go so far as to say the Internal Revenue Code needs to be scrapped and replaced with something less complex, even if tax rates rise under a new system.

    Either the US tax code is radically reformed, or I - someone who pays more in taxes than I spend on all other expenses, including my own food, shelter, and entertainment combined - will fucking walk to any country that'll have me.

  48. Re:Complete my taxes? Good! by michaelhood · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't fully understand your situation. If you were only working somewhere for two days, or a week, or similar.. you'd receive a 1099, not a W2. There are no tax withholdings in a 1099'd ("subcontractor") position. I, like many of us, have been self-employed for years and am more than familiar with this mess. Please explain your situation so that I can better help.

  49. Re:We're at war? by MoneyT · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Was it done by the Congress as demanded by the Constitution?


    Yes. Or in as much as this war could have been approved by congress. Let me clue you in on a working of the government. All money and spending HAS to be approved by congress. They approved the funds and the usage of troops in Iraq.

    --
    T Money
    World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  50. MODS ON CRACK?! Lower than the 90s?! Lies! by MacDork · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ours is going down -- the opposite of skyrocketing.

    2000 - 4.0%, 2001 - 4.7%, 2002 - 5.8%, 2003 - 6.0% That doesn't look like it's going down to me sport.

    Allow me to direct you to here and here. The first link gives yearly unemployment averages from 1948 to 2002. The second link, to the homepage, says the average unemployment numbers for 2003 are 6.0%. As for the "booming 90s", 1990-1999 yield a simple average of 5.75% Lower than present. Now if we take the numbers from 1994-2001, the years the Clinton administration is mostly responsible for, you get 4.925%.

    Much of our country's history has been spent in debt, the key is the percentage of the debt versus the GDP of the nation. Debt is not the problem, its the ability of the nation to manage that debt and make the payments in relation to the country's ability to produce goods and services that people want to obtain.

    A budget deficit doesn't paint the whole picture? Brilliant deduction! Let me guess, you went to college for an Economics degree, didn't you? 'The country's ability to produce goods and services that people want to obtain'... that sounds directly related to our trade deficit. Which is also at an all time high. In terms any American can understand, this country has lost it's job and is now living on the credit cards.

    I won't even bother to respond to the rest of your flamebait. How this post got modded 4 Interesting is beyond me. I'm beginning to think Slashdot is the target of astroturfing.

  51. Where is his ... by burgburgburg · · Score: 3, Informative
    1973-1974 Officer Effectiveness Report? Commanders are required to fill one out for every officer who serves. The last OER on record for Bush was completed on May 2, 1973, and covered the period from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973. But according to Bush's payroll and retirement records, he was credited for serving 38 days after May 2, 1973, which means he should have been evaluated. Yet his officer rating seems to have simply disappeared.

    And why did he stop taking physical exams 3 years before the end of his service? He was supposed to take one every year to coincide with his birthday. Bush passed an exam May 15, 1971, but in the summer of 1972 he refused to take one, and lost his flying status because of it. In the summer of 1973 Bush was still serving in the Guard, but no records exists to prove he ever took a physical. In fact, there's no evidence that in the 42 months between May 1971 and the time he officially discharged on Nov. 21, 1974, Bush ever took an Air Force physical.

    His failure to take the physical in 1972, and his subsequent loss of his flying status, should have triggered a disciplinary review, copies of which would be contained in Bush's military file. But none exists. Where are they?

    And why, after the government spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach him how to fly, did he apply to be transferred to an Alabama postal unit?

    What's that sound? That's the sound of AWOL.

  52. Re:Complete my taxes? Good! by rark · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A. Because if they hold your money, they know they'll get it. Plus, the spectre of a refund is incentive to do your taxes.

    B. Because then they wouldn't get to hold your money interest free. (Hey, interest free loans are great -- given inflation, the borrower technically makes money on them)

    I think Maryland must be doing something similar. Several months ago they hit me for something like $5000 for 2001. The problem with this was that I lived in California for the entirety of 2001, with the exception of the last three weeks. Two of those were spent in transit across country, and the last was spent in Philadelphia. No Maryland anywhere in there. However, I did move to Maryland breifly in Feb 2002, filed my taxes, stayed a while longer and then moved to Taxachusetts. And because I filed my taxes there they decided they were entiled to a cut of 2001 as well as 2002 (they already had their cut of 2002).

    So I sent back a reply explaining this and haven't heard from them since.

  53. Re:what is a sales tax? by Scooby+Snacks · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you're honestly asking, a "sales tax" is a tax based on a percentage of the purchase price of an item. It's very similar to the VAT that many other countries have, with some key differences:

    • Unlike VAT, sales tax is collected only once on an item through the manufacturing and sales process, whereas with VAT (if my understanding is correct) it's collected at each point in the supply chain, minus what has already been paid. For example, with 15% VAT on an item made of metal, a mining company might mine one dollar's worth of metal and sell it for $1.15, with the $0.15 going to the state. Then the company that bought the raw metal might make parts out of which are worth $3, so they'd charge $3.30 and send $0.30 to the state. (That's $0.45 less the $0.15 which has already been paid.) And so on, and so forth, until the product, worth $10, is sold in the store with a sticker price of $11.50.

      On the other hand, in the US, the raw metal would be sold for $1 with the state getting no money, and the part for $3, and so on and so forth, until the product winds up on the shelf listed for $10.

    • The price of the sales tax is not included in the purchase price of the item. With the above example, you take your item, which is labeled as $11.50, up to the register and that is what you pay. On the other hand, the item is marked $10 on the shelf and the sales tax is added on at the register. This stems mainly from the feeling that having the tax included in the purchase price would be a form of hidden taxation (as some people feel the gasoline taxes are). So depending on the locality, the cashier will ask for between $10.50 and $11.00 once your purchase is rung up.

    • Which brings up another point. The sales tax is not uniform across the US. Each state can choose to implement a sales tax or not. In states which implement the sales tax, it is not necessarily uniform across the entire state. For example, Indiana has a 5% sales tax, Pennsylvania has a 6% sales tax, and the city of Philadelphia has a 1% sales tax (on top of Pennsylvania's 6%, so you must pay an additional 7% of the purchase price in taxes). For someone living in Phoenix, Arizona, the situation is even more complicated. The state charges 5.6% (from what I could find), the county charges 0.7%, and the city charges 1.8%, for a total of 8.1%. Basically, the amount charged varies by ZIP code (the US term for a postal code), and oftentimes even within the same ZIP code you might have different tax rates. This makes it a nightmare for a small business, for example, to collect and remit the proper taxes to all the different localities.

    • Following the last point, mail-order (here I am including catalog, telephone, and Internet sales) businesses thus tend to collect sales taxes only for states in which they have some form of physical presence; otherwise, the state has no jurisdiction over the business. To my knowledge, though, all states which have a sales tax have a "use tax", which applies to items purchased elsewhere which have had no (or fewer) taxes paid on them. For example, a Pennsylvania resident (6% sales tax rate) who drives to Delaware (an adjoining state with no sales tax) and purchases a $100 video card is supposed to declare this on his tax returns and pay the $6. If he was on a trip to Indiana and paid $105, he is legally required to pay the extra $1 but is not responsible for the other $5. However, if he purchases the item in Phoenix, paying $108.10, he does not owe the Pennsylvania state government anything at all.

    Hope that clears things up for you.
    --

    --
    Runnin' around, robbin' banks all whacked on the Scooby Snacks...