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Keyless Entries Fail In Las Vegas On Friday
Hoompini-Ting writes "Some accuse area 51, but in any case many folks were stranded when keyless locks failed or their car computers malfunctioned. No technical explanation but I'm sure slashdotters have theories. Similar to the failure in Seattle 3 years ago. See the Las Vegas Review-Journal for more details."
this reminds me of those personal cellphone jammers that people have been buying... surely the same technology can be applied to the frequency of these keyless entry remotes...
just my 2 cents...
Investing forum
If it were some weird electrical disturbance or whatever, wouldn't all the keyless entry systems be affected? I didn't get the assumption from the article that it was all of them, rather a small amount. I'd be curious to know whether or not all the ones that failed where in the same area, or if it was spread out over Vegas.
I bought my last car just after a colleague had had problems with his keyless system - it started unlocking the doors every time a truck with a CB went past. As a result, I insisted on not having keyless entry. I'm beginning to think I should moderate my decision "Insightful".
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
I loaned my vehicle to a friend for a few days last night which was supposed to be returned around 10PM. Around that time, she called and was frantic because she was late and she could not disable the alarm to get into it. I had no idea what the heck was going on. Probably some SDI research gone awry. There is always wierd stuff going on here in the Las Vegas Valley. Vegas is a great place to live. Always something going on, always something interesting happening.
Whenever I'm in Manhattan near the Empire State Building my keyless entry is absolutely useless. I'm fairly confident that my poor little electronic key fob gets drowned out by the sheer volume of RF signals in the area. Probably the same sort of thing in Vegas only in a short burst.
Curse the FCC and part 15 of their rules.
Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
RAF Fylingdales, on the North Yorkshire moors in England. They've had big problems with the poweful radar there (which will form part of the NMD system); cars that get too close have their alarms or engine immobilizers triggered. In the latter case, they have to be towed out of range of the radar. More about the story can be found here.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
We had a very similar situation here in the Colorado Springs, CO area a few years ago when a faulty FM broadcast tower started sending out signals on rogue frequencies.
Not only were keyless entry systems affected, but garage doors started opening at seemingly random intervals as well. It happened on the southwest side of the city, which as anyone familiar with the area knows, is smack-dab next to NORAD (as well as the main array of broadcast antennae that serve the city).
Needless to say, the conspiracy theorists had a field day with that one too.
bash: rtfm: command not found
Actually, no. Most car doors have a more generic lock than the ignition. Once I went to drive my mom's car, sat inside, only to find the key didn't work in the ignition. That's when I realized I had never gotten my mom's car key, and had unlocked the door with MY car's key. I double checked to be sure, and my key always unlocked her car door with ease.
I'm honestly not sure why this is, but I do have a suspicion. The intent is probably that you can't make a key that fits the car from the outside. First you'd need to make a key using the door lock, then you'd have to get inside the car, then make another key using the ignition. Hopefully this takes too long or requires too many visits to the car, and before you can make keys for both locks either the owner will return and catch you, or a passerby will notice what you're doing.
As for having the car alarm go off "by default" if you put a proper key in the door, I still think that is stupid and obnoxious. I think car alarms should be outlawed altogether, at least until the things have some remotely significant success rate. And by success i mean only going off if someone is actually breaking into the car. Alternatively, the car's owner should be fined (maybe 200$) if the alarm goes off without real provocation. Too many car alarms are too sensitive, and the owners dont give a shit because they're not the ones trying to sleep in the house/apartment/dorm next to their blaring car alarm.
Actually, come to think about it, the alarm isn't set off when the key is turned, rather when the door is opened. Still makes sense to me, since the window can be left open with the alarm enabled...
The door's lock is essentially physical; detecting a pick would certainly add complexity. Picking is rare anyway, they use a slim-jim or a curved tool that hits the power lock button.
The ignition's tumblers are higher precision and, in some cars, have sensors that read a code embedded in the chip to verify the key.
There is a fairly large mountain, Mount Wilson, about 15 miles from the center of Los Angeles. It is a weird bit of topography to have such a high mountain right next to a city at sea level, and both the academic and telecommunications fields have taken advantage of it.
I went up there with my son to see the array of telescopes. They have some amazing, unique installlations, including a spectacular optical interferometer.
About a mile from the observatory there is the largest antenna farm you've ever seen. Antennas of every size, geometry, and description.
And -- the keyless entry on my Toyota Spyder didn't work. It was a little puzzling, I assumed that the remote's battery was dead -- but the little light worked just fine. If I put the remote right next to the car, it would work about one time out of 10. Very odd. I thought maybe it was the altitude...
Then when I tried it at the parking garage the next day, it worked perfectly, with its normal range and exuberance. I now believe that it was interference from the antenna farm that was causing it not to work at Mount Wilson.
I'm sure that there was some kind of similar interference in Vegas yesterday. I wonder if Aviation Week will write it up.
Thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
Back when the FCC had District Engineers, instead of "Regional Directors" who are usually lawyers, you could probably get somebody on the phone who'd crank up a receiver and tune around until they found the source of the problem. Today, the FCC doesn't even have an office in Las Vegas. The nearest field office is in LA.
Many tower sites have 460Mhz high power paging transmitters co-located there along with 150Mhz transmitters. Often times these transmitters are not "UP" at the saame time. Paging transmitters are up most of the time during the day. When you have two stations that are close to each other and you don't have a device called a "circulator" on the output of the RF Power Amp (PA), you get a mix of the two signals. 460-150 puts out a mix at about 310Mhz. Right in the band that many of the wireless key entry systems use. If the mix is only a few watts, comming from a high gain paging transmitter's antenna, yep, it would stomp all over the keyless remote.
No need for panic, I am sure it was someone replacing a bad circulator on a paging transmitter.
--fatboy
Another similar situation in Montreal when a brand new public transport train locomotive was put into service: its route took it through a residential neighborhood lined w/ houses equipped w/ 1-2 door garages. Imagine the owners' surprise when, as the train passed by for the first time, nearly all the garage doors equipped w/ electrical openers opened on their own! I can't remember exactly what caused it, but it was related either to the new locomotive's communication system or the part-electric propulsion system.
Either that, or it is terrorism.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Being an amateur radio operator and at one time a repeater owner I know that all kinds of radio frequency problems can happen. My repeater only transmitted one someone was using it but when a small little transistor started to self oscillate it transmitted by itself. Since it bypassed the control there was not auto shut off. Worse yet my normal narrow 7Khz signal was now running 100mhz in each direction! Since my transmitter was in the 146Mhz range it was now blotting out other transmitters and devices from 46Mhz to 246Mhz.
It blotted out Fire, police, business, TV and worse yet, military frequencies! A friend who works at mountain top sites for Motorola found the problem from a nearby mountain via a 50 thousand dollar service monitor and noticed that it was centered on my frequency! I found him on my doorstep when I arrived home. It was powered down and a resister network on the transistors stopped it from ever happening again.
The point is I could have been fined BIG dollars for this little problem and would have if I reported it. Cities are dense with radio signals from all kinds of sources and any one of those can malfunction. If no one can traces this down I doubt the offending person or equipment will come forward. Unless this was a test of a military EMP bomb in the desert test range I doubt it was the military since it only effect a narrow range of devices. The narrow range of problems almost eliminates the EMP bomb as well.
I live in Nevada, and have done a lot of work with 802.11 in various locations around the state. The most interesting project I ever worked on was in Pahrump. We discovered that we could not create any working connections with a directional antenna pointed toward Area 51. I don't know if they use conventional jamming equipment, experimental wireless equipment or weapons, or who knows what. All I know is that it was a real pain in the butt, and required moving equipment around to avoid pointing anything that direction.
Er, brothers and Saturns, not moms and Yugos.
Last weekend a young woman politely knocked on my door and asked if I drove a red Saturn. Well, no, but my visiting brother does.... It turns out some friends of hers (who live across the street) had let her borrow *their* red Saturn. She not only was able to unlock my brother's car with their key, she was able to $#@%in' DRIVE AWAY with it. FWIW, apparently it wasn't completely trivial; after she managed to drive away with it, she was unable to get it started again when she tried to drive it back....
Listen to what I say, not what I mean...
Because these things are so cheap, and because there are several hobby-type people working on them, it wouldn't even need to be *deliberate*. It could simply be accidental leakage of microwave energy.
Hardware, software, and blinking lights!
or do you believe that cars are still driveable without fuel?
I'd say the danger is minimal. I've had a fuel pump fail before, and the car did give some warning before cutting out completely. That would also be the correct time for the lights to start flashing and the horn sounding. At the same time, it will warn other drivers of the disabled car.
to say all car alarms are completely worthless is overly broad. I think proximity sensors that detect motion outside the car is worthless, but inside would be useful.
The vast majority of car alarms are the start screaming when a leaf touches the car type. Certainly, that is the type that everyone except the owner hates, and what most people think of when they hear the term car alarm.
Any motion sensor is an invitation to trouble. Many savvy thieves pick out a car they like in it's driveway. Every night at a disgustingly early hour, they set the alarm off by bouncing the car and hide in the shadows. Eventually, the combination of carelessness and sleep loss gets the owner to conclude the alarm needs an adjustment and he leaves it off.
The night the alarm doesn't go off, the car is stolen.
There are useful anti-theft devices, but ALARMS do no good and annoy the neighbors. After enough of that, they CAUSE vandalism.
Personally, I choose cars by utility value and don't leave anything valuable in them. I've never had a poblem.