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An Introduction To Wireless USB (WUSB)

An anonymous reader writes "This technical whitepaper by Rafael Kolic, a technology marketing manager in Intel's Corporate Technology Group, introduces Wireless USB (WUSB) and explains how it will impact device performance and mobility. The latest iteration of USB technology, WUSB will offer the same functionality as standard wired USB devices -- but without the cabling."

102 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. Doesn't this already exist? by JayDiggity · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ummm.. don't we already have something for that called Bluetooth? Hrm.

    From the Bluetooth SIG Mission Statement:
    Develop, publish and promote the preferred short-range wireless specification for connecting mobile products...

    1. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by afidel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, Bluetooth is much smarter because it doesn't require a PC. Bluetooth is peer-to-peer whereas USB is a stupid bus for connecting devices to a PC.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    2. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by eraser.cpp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Adoption of bluetooth technology has been very slow though. And since this would most likely see implementation on motherboards it is very likely to be bluetooth's successor if it actually ever enters production.

    3. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bluetooth is a low power, relatively low speed, low range wireless personal network. It's not meant to transfer large blocks of data.

      Unfortunately Bluetooth arose in an age where it was already outdated, as our devices quickly became too powerful for this dismal standard.

      I'm really excited about wireless USB, especially if cheap solutions allow us to convert wired to wireless. I work in a high tech classroom with digital smartboards and a stereoscopic wall, and one of the problems we're having is connecting devices (such as cameras and microphones for video conferencing) from the classroom back to the computer closet behind everything. The normal cables just don't reach, so we have to either use a series of repeaters, or USB to ethernet converters, both of which are nontrivial in price.

      Of course if they could develop cheaper wifi chips, everything could just have an 802.11x interface and you could network any devices, so maybe what we'll see is a happy medium between bluetooth and wifi.

    4. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by the+melon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I gusee you could say USB(2) is to firewire what WUSB is to Bluetooth. (W)USB are host-based where firewire and bluetooth are host independant.

    5. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Develop, publish and promote the preferred short-range wireless specification for connecting mobile products.

      And if you read this "introduction" it's CLEARLY positioning WUSB for things like in-the-home high-capacity connectivity for devices where you're rather not have wires (eg HomeTheater, they specifically talk about bandwidth consumption of HDTV streams etc).

      Very muchly *not* what BlueTooth is aimed at.

      --
      Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
    6. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's kinda interesting because if you look at the wireless tech we have now, nothing wired equated to Bluetooth:

      Serial > USB > WUSB
      Ethernet > WiFi
      ??? > Bluetooth

      Bluetooth is a much smarter protocol that allows you to build a PAN - something you'll need if you have 2 PCs with WUSB in the same vicinity...

      maybe WUSB stands for Wireless Ultra-Smart Bluetooth or something, but to all intents and purposes, it sounds like choice is getting in the way of standards again... *sigh*

    7. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by MBCook · · Score: 5, Interesting
      If you read the posted article, it will allow limited host capability which would allow you to do things like print pictures straight from your cellphone to your printer without having to have a computer involved. This is a good thing too, because bluetooth allows the same thing, so to not include it would be quite stupid.

      Also, this is designed to compete in a different space. While it can do the things that Bluetooth does, it's also designed to be used by hard drives and other devices that require MUCH more bandwidth than is available with Bluetooth. Maybe when it's updated, but right now you just couldn't use it for a hard drive or to connect your 5MP digital camera.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    8. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by khuber · · Score: 5, Insightful
      What's wrong with wires? They're simple, cheap, and reliable. Not only that, but they tend to have better performance.

      I can understand a bluetooth iPod or other mobile device, but for electronics equipment that sits in your house, wires work better. For example, I don't see why people put up with crappy 10-55 Mb/s Wifi when standard cabling is so cheap! Likewise, why do you want wireless HDTV for home theater? It seems to offer little benefit for stationary equipment. I think it has more to do with conspicuous consumption (oh look at how hip I am with the tech!) than practical benefits.

    9. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by Agent+Smart · · Score: 2, Informative

      WUSB will replace Bluetooth

      From an interview with Intel CTO
      He indicates that it'll have better performance and lower power consumption. Eventually.

    10. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For example, I don't see why people put up with crappy 10-55 Mb/s Wifi when standard cabling is so cheap!

      Wireless is freedom, and it doesn't require you to snake wires through your walls (which is a major bitch in most cases if you want to do it right -- i.e. not running it through an air return and then hanging the wire around your baseboards). The few times I've really had the need for 100Mbps (versus the 36Mbps I'm currently getting over 802.11g, up on the second floor with the WAP in the basement), I'll bring the laptop to the basement and plug-in, but otherwise this whole wireless thing is fabulous.

    11. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by CowboyNick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, you are talking about a distance of a few feet for your headset. Your net2phone connection has to go through encoding to TCP/IP and transmission through miles of cable.

      --
      -CowboyNick
    12. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by Enry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey look kids, Rob Enderle showed up.

      It comes down to what you need.

      802.11* is a high speed standard for replacing much of the Ethernet wiring. Great for mobile devices that have good sized batteries (i.e. laptops).

      Bluetooth went the other direction. Instead of focusing on speed, why not power? Bluetooth has a much lower power requirement, and at ~760kbps makes a great way for cell phones (which are currently in the ~128kbps range) to talk to small, low power devices (like a palm or WinCE or Zaurus).

      I recently had the choice of PDAs to get one with bluetooth or 802.11. I took the bluetooth and so far have not had any regrets about it. Of course, my laptop has both 802.11 and bluetooth in it.

    13. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by Boltronics · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I believe it. When the cordless phone (sitting next to my PC rings), my cordless keyboard refuses to work. I also read somewhere cordless phones use 2.4Ghz, and have far greater signal strength.

      I can't comment on the speed decrease of my wireless network yet, since I only connect to my dial-up router across the apartment (which is where worst possible location for the only phone socket happens to be located).

      Although it's quite a distance to my WAP, I do have line of sight. I'm sure that helps quite a lot.

      --
      It's GNU/Linux dammit!
    14. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by CowboyNick · · Score: 2, Informative

      My point was, the cause of latency it totally different in both examples. Your Bluetooth headset only has to transmit data a few feet to get to your cell phone. If you actually stand next to the person you are calling you will notice there is about a 1/4 to 1/2 second delay between what you say and what is heard at the other end (part of this is due to the audio signal being encoded to digital and back). However your head set will not create a noticeable delay vs. using your cell phone's built-in microphone and speaker directly. When you are using your USB wired head set, there is a totally different transmission network that was not even designed for voice communication, so your results will vary depending upon network conditions. The PSTN and cellular networks are designed to transmit voice reliably. The delay that you are hearing in this case is not at all related to it being USB.

      --
      -CowboyNick
    15. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by justzisguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let's not forget about those of us who haven't yet purchased our own homes and are stuck in an apartment. Sure, a wired system is best, but I'm not allowed to drill anything. Putting the cables along the baseboard is tacky. Wireless definitely wins here. If I need to transfer something a little larger, I'll run a temporary wire, but that is rare.

      Besides, do you really expect the average do-it-yourselfer to pull cable, use a punch down tool, and install jacks? Wireless makes sense again.

    16. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I couldn't have said it better.

      It's been said again and again, but I'll do it again for fun if nothing else: if you need a very high speed connection, plug the damn thing in.

      Here's the design philosophy for wireless communications, and for all things, really:

      1: Make it cheap
      2: Make it fast
      3: Make it so it dosen't suck energy like a muscle car sucks gas.

      Chose two.

      It will hold true always. There will always be a solution that, while not the fastest, accompolishs most things that one could wish to do with it, be more cost effective, and use less energy.

      Guess what? Bluetooth is that solution.

    17. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by prockcore · · Score: 2, Funny

      Score 0 Insightful?

      There's obviously some mods here with a sense of humor.

      The point is, bluetooth doesn't live up to what it originally promised. Look behind your TV and tell me that bluetooth could be used to solve that mess of cables.

      The parent asked why bother with wireless USB when we have bluetooth.

      I say it's because bluetooth doesn't have the ability to fix the problem of having a gamecube, a dvd player, a vcr, a TiVo, and a stereo all hooked up together in a giant mess of cables. Wireless USB does. It's high bandwidth (400Mb/s) wireless.

      It can be used to have TiVo wirelessly send a video stream to your TV and an audio stream to your stereo.

      Jesus people, think outside the box. Wireless USB isn't going to be used to sync your PDA to your Phone.. it's going to be used in ways that no other wireless is currently capable of being used.

    18. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by fyonn · · Score: 4, Informative

      actually, I think that the adoption of bluetooth has been pretty quick and fairly widespread. I'm in the UK and a large percentage of mobile phones come with bluetooth already and most of the ones due out soon include it. most of the current crop of pda's either have bluetooth on board or can be upgraded via a card to support it. you can buy countless BT headsets and hands free kits for your car and many laptops have it onboard.

      thats pretty much bluetooth's market sewn up. while it's true that most desktop's don't come with BT as standard, some do and it's only a 17 usb dongle away. I got a dlink BT dongle for my mac and it works like a charm to speak to my siemens mobile phone, I just wish the prices of BT memory sticks for my clie weren't so outrageous.

      sure it's not overly fast but it is easy and convenient and works. I thought it was doing pretty well.

      dave

      PS. saying that, has anyone else seen a bit of incompartibility between apple's bluetooth stack and a siemens mobile phone? I can sync over BT fine but sending txt's via it is problematical. it says everything is fine but alot of the time the txt's don't get sent. anyone else?

    19. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by fyonn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      thats a bit of an unfair comparison. wires are cheap, very cheap, it's just that most places mark up wires to a huge amount to try and make up for the cheap pc's they sell. as as for radio chips, they might even be cheaper than that, but not to you, to someone buying 5000 of the damn things.

      dave

    20. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Bluetooth is much smarter because it doesn't require a PC."

      Smarter in the sense of "the best networks are dumb, and innovation happens at the edges"?

      Let's have a protocol that's as easy to solder to a PCB as RS232 is with no licensing requirements, a spec that fits on 2 pages of A4, and controller chips that you can buy in Maplin. Then we might get somewhere with this wireless idea...

    21. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by ergo98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exposed wires are an eyesore, not to mention a potential safety hazard (tripping, children pulling, etc). Having said that, the optimal solution if you really have fixed locations where you use your PC is to wire correctly, which means running wires within your walls and installing actual outlet jacks at approximately the position of the PC. I _attempted_ to do this last weekend to run some television cable, and what a friggin' nightmare it is to put a wire correctly in existing walls. Eventually I gave up and ran it down the air return and then around the bottom of the baseboard. :-) For networking I just gave up and got a WAP (with WEP-128 encryption and WAP logon and MAC filtration, so I'm not overly concerned, though obviously a fixed wire is even better)

    22. Re:Doesn't this already exist? by BiggyP · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but if the article's claim is true this is far far smarter than Bluetooth

      "WUSB will offer the same functionality as standard wired USB devices -- but without the cabling"

      does that mean that i can still have small devices draw power from the bus? wireless power transmision sounds good to me ;)

  2. Netcraft confirms, WUSB is dying. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, now that Bluetooth is dead, it's good that WUSB will come out soon. That way Netcraft can confirm that WUSB is dying.

    They have to do something all day there...

  3. "...without the cabling." by John+Hasler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or the security.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:"...without the cabling." by Ferretski · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ...or the power

    2. Re:"...without the cabling." by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This is what I'm worried about. Let's take the home theater example. While it would be nice to have my DVD player talk to my reciever, they are both powered independantly. But what about connecting to my speakers using WUSB? Do I have to keep batteries in my speakers now? Will each speaker have a seperate power cord? Wouldn't EITHER of those be a large pain?

      To go back to computing space, there are lots of little USB devices that get power from the bus, and I wouldn't want to have to add batteries to everything. My GBA Flash Cart programmer get's its power from USB. What about USB->serial/parallel converters for when I want to use some of my older stuff? While this would be handy for hard drives and other things that often need seperate power anyways, this could be a pain in other circumstances.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    3. Re:"...without the cabling." by gabebear · · Score: 4, Informative
      These things are going to eat several times more power than a Bluetooth radio. The article says: "The power target for WUSB radio will be introduced at less than 300 mW and drive to a target of 100 mW over time."

      That's the same as lower power 802.11 cards

      Bluetooth chips generally eat less than 40mW, some as little as 20mW. I wouldn't put WUSB in a cell-phone.



    4. Re:"...without the cabling." by toasted_calamari · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just use stick a largish tesla coil in the room, it'll power everything- wirelessly.

      Oh, and make sure to get big speakers to drown out the racket

      And make sure your sofa doesn't have any metal in it.

      And keep a fire extinguisher handy.

      But aside from that, i'm sure home tesla coils will be a revolutionary addition to the wireless house.

    5. Re:"...without the cabling." by chrome · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Haha!

      Yeah, the wireless power thing is a bit of a problem.

      Actually, I'd be happy if manufacturers could just stick to a standard for DC power, then you could buy DC power converters with multiple outlets.

      Still I have visions of Tesla coils arcing across the room and frying random parts of the house ... hahaha ... a Red Alert defense system in my living room! :D

    6. Re:"...without the cabling." by Gabrill · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Every wire that's taken out will make a home theater system that much more usable. You could have one power cord for each component, one wire from each speaker to the central 6.1 amp, and one input wire from cable/digital cable/satelite. All the other signal wires from component to component would be done wirelessly. Selecting the source wouldbe easier, too, since a component that's turned off doesn't show up in the list of inputs.

      That would be cool.

      --
      Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
    7. Re:"...without the cabling." by TummyX · · Score: 4, Interesting

      An even cooler idea would be to run both 12VDC and 240VAC throughout the house. A lot of devices people run now days run on low voltage DC. Think battery chargers, computers, LED lighting, routers, flat screen TVs, clocks, radios etc etc. I reckon I run more DC devices than AC ones and I have tens of inefficient AC-DC power supplies to prove it.

    8. Re:"...without the cabling." by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Like USB but without the power"

      Well that should help on my Nomad Jukebox Zen, which will quite happily display a low-battery warning and then die from lack of power whilst plugged into a USB cable with a 5V supply!

    9. Re:"...without the cabling." by silas_moeckel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you relize the size and cost of copper cable that you would have to run around the house to provide decent wattage? Besides if you going to do something like that why not bit the bullet and run power over ethernet and kill 2 birds with one stone. You would have gigabit eithernet and enough wattage to run a lot of smaller devices (12 watts and change on cisco if memory serves) I say thing because running DC power in a daisy change to outlets would require some beefy cable at 12 volts as in you need ten times the amperage ish vs your current AC.

      I do agree that 240 would be a better power standard I run my computers and racks on it. But again it's maily because you can get 2 times the wattage on the same wire.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
  4. Neat by __aavhli5779 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So soon after the "Bluetooth is Dying" article we get this.

    Methinks a conspiracy!

    In all honesty, this looks like quite nice tech though I can imagine some of the implementation will be a real pill. Problems like how to manage roaming a device from one cluster to the next will surely require some ingenuity, especially given that backwards compatibility with classic USB devices is a goal (though I presume that those will only be adjuncts to the cluster, sitting at a wirelesswired bridge).

    Bluetooth has fulfilled quite well the idea of a truly ad-hoc network among devices, but I assume that will be a much more difficult thing to achieve with WUSB, making some, I'm sure, doubt the point of the project. I think the idea of devices beaming data around to each other at 480 mbits answers that one quite nicely. I look forward to this*

    *linux and OS X support for this; until then, I ain't touchin' it :)

    1. Re:Neat by Have+Blue · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, the previous article was really "Bluetooth is dying because WUSB will kill it", so it's not so much a conspiracy as just a glut of news surrounding Intel's announcement.

  5. What about range? by Limburgher · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Will this have longer range than Bluetooth? If so, it will fly, especially if some sort of OS-transparent USB-WUSB adapter is available. If not, I doubt there's much sure for it. What about security? Will it be encrypted at all? Last thing I need is to be using a WUSB mouse on a plane and having some kid three rows back taking over and h4x0r1n6 my b0x3n.

    --

    You are not the customer.

    1. Re:What about range? by Limburgher · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ignore me. I should have RTFA. Need more caffiene. . .

      --

      You are not the customer.

    2. Re:What about range? by arazor · · Score: 3, Funny

      Boxen??? What are you doing with multiple computers on a commercial airline let alone how did you get past security.

    3. Re:What about range? by Limburgher · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wear an extremely large coat.

      --

      You are not the customer.

    4. Re:What about range? by iminplaya · · Score: 4, Funny

      Last thing I need is to be using a WUSB mouse on a plane and having some kid three rows back taking over and h4x0r1n6 my b0x3n.

      I'm pretty sure the kid will be occupied h4x0r1n6 the plane's autopilot. So while the ride might get pretty wild, your computer will be safe. :-)

      --
      What?
  6. Power by Ween · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I really enjoy being able to power most of my devices over USB and not having to have an extra plug and/or wallwart to deal with. I for one would much rather keep wired usb and forgo the power adapter, than wireless usb and have to deal with yet another plug to have to find power for. I know most of you probably are already running fire hazards as it is now.

    --


    Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt --Abraham Lincoln
    1. Re:Power by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 3, Funny

      what you mean it doesn't beam the energy to the device? :( rats.

      --
      This space available.
    2. Re:Power by JunkDNA · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not so sure this is true. I took a look around at my setup (not that I'm assuming everyone has the same things, but I consider myself a typical geek). Most of my USB devices require a power cable: scanner, printer, Logitech Mx 700 mouse (cradle), Palm cradle, & external HDD. Then there are other devices that don't "need" a power cable: digital camera & MP3 player. The only two devices that I'd have to add a power cable to would be keyboard (could do batteries here) and webcam. Seems like I'd just have fewer cables and USB hubs sitting around, which would be nice.

    3. Re:Power by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or maybe wireless power! Imagine having a 4 foot diameter microwave transceiver dish on both your PC and mouse. Not to mention the migraine of biblical proportions you'll get after using said mouse for 5 minutes... Uhm... Scrap that wireless power idea...

    4. Re:Power by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ah the joy of being narrow-minded. I've already got MY needs met, screw the rest of you.

      Read the article, it (for example) talks about using WUSB to connect your HomeTheater setup to your PC for streaming HDTV. Personally I'd prefer to keep my PC in one room and my HT setup in another (for acoustics if nothing else) in which case I'd much rather not have to run cables between the two.

      Clearly they're positioning this for the in home digital network. Digital Convergence While you *can* sortof achieve these things with WiFi and IP Streaming, the bottom line is that neither WiFi nor IP Addresses are trivial enough for Grandma to connect hreself.

      They envision a world where everyone has a computer (for internet and email) and they want to provide "consumer level" (ie plug it in and it just works) connectivity to it for "just about any computing device in the home".

      PLUS this spec talks about device-to-device (USB doesn't do this now?) so think along the lines of Digital Camera-to-Television for viewing Photos (or even videos).

      A high-bandwidth plug-and-play connectivity spec without wires opens up a Whole World of opportunity. Suddenly your computer in the study becomes a back-end server to the entire home, display on my HomeTheater Widescreen TV, stream HDTV from my computer (recorded from my DTV STB), pull up photos from my camera onto the TV, pick one and then email it to someone. and none of these devices are wired to each other. When I have guests around, all they see is "a normal living room" big TV, nice speakers and a digital camera on the coffee table. A complete lack of messy wires everywhere (without having to wire everything into the walls - which is generally not an option if you're renting). And the best thing (from a business perspective) is that if you have enough 'tech skills' to drive AOL then you can have a digitally-converged household like this (ie just about anyone is a potential customer, the only limit is disposable income - and we're taoking 'consumer level' here, so it's not big bux).

      --
      Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
    5. Re:Power by dublin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Digital Convergence While you *can* sortof achieve these things with WiFi and IP Streaming, the bottom line is that neither WiFi nor IP Addresses are trivial enough for Grandma to connect hreself.

      No, actually, it *is* easy enough for Grandma, but the problem is that corporate egos are trying as hard as they can to keep this from really working. The problem, as usual, isn't that we have no standard, but rahter that we have at least one too many.

      The bottom line: we (users and product designers) are all caught in the middle of a Mexican Standoff between Zeroconf/Rendezvous and Universal Plug-n-Play.

      Zeroconf is a real, open, IETF standard, and also the basis for Apple's Rendezvous.

      UPnP is the Intel/Microsoft altrernative, which is a SOAP-based "non-standard standard", and specifies far more than is necessary (and probably wise) for interoperability. ALthough it looks more "complete" on the surface, it is overweight, and that completeness may well turn into an unacceptable brittleness in years to come, where Zeroconf aims more to be a very basic platform upon which to build.

      From where I sit, it's easier, cleaner, and considerably simpler to implement Zeroconf. It does all the things that matter, but since it skips the questionable value UPnP puts on forcing everything into SOAP, it's much cleaner, ligher weight, and thus far more suitable for embedded devices.

      The problem, of course, is that Intel and MS are NOT going to support Zeroconf, although it works like maginc in the Mac world, hard-to-find Windows clients like Howl are required to use it with Windows. That pretty much quashes any possibility of Grandma's using it, if she's going to be using the PC she bought at CompUSA anywhere in the system.

      Ultimately, this will be one of the most important battlegrounds of the next few years: It's hard to overstate how important it is to have this capability if we want to be able to move beyond PC-based devices to real, intelligent network devices that offer far more flexibility at far less cost. Intel and MS want that world to fail, while Apple sees little to lose there. Sadly, open source is mostly AWOL in this battle, although there are some exceptions.

      There's only one answer: demand full Zeroconf support in *all* operating systems, and vote with your dollars!

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
  7. Wireless keyboard loggers, anyone? by G4from128k · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can only hope and pray that wireless USB will be very very secure. The thought of someone with a nice high-gain cantenna and a datalogger is none to comforting.

    I can also see all many nasty opportunities for system flakyness when a computer gets intermitt-tt-ttant contacts with other wireless USB devices and tries to establish a connection.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Wireless keyboard loggers, anyone? by kfg · · Score: 3, Funny

      There are far worse things than spies.

      They call them "Divorce Lawyers."

      KFG

    2. Re:Wireless keyboard loggers, anyone? by Doomdark · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This seems bit obvious, but what's so wrong about actual end-points (devices) handling security (encryption, authentication) ABOVE transport layer, end to end, using a standard protocol. Why is everyone assuming there can be no security if the low-level protocol itself doesn't bolt-in everything needed? I mean, TCP/IP doesn't do encryption either. That's why (non-stupid/ignorant) people use ssh instead of classic telnet, and can get decent security against loggers, sniffers, men-in-middle etc.

      Of course if so, protocol designers should just define that at lowest protocol level such features are out of scope.. that is, to indicate they had done conscious decision, not that they were ignorant of obvious needs for actual appliances.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    3. Re:Wireless keyboard loggers, anyone? by Monkeybaister · · Score: 3, Insightful
      How long did it take to convert people from insecure telnet to ssh? There are even systems still that do not have encryption imposed that some twit I have to deal with doesn't see any reason for setting it up. The main problem is that if policy is not dictated people will be lazy. It's easier to not have encryption in the protocol and make devices that don't use encryption, or maybe they do encrypt but it's useless (WEP), or maybe they then require drivers to support it (so no Linux support or some such nonsense).

      I know not to run services that don't use encryption over the internet or over wireless, but remember that there are lots of stupid people out there.

    4. Re:Wireless keyboard loggers, anyone? by evilviper · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Why is everyone assuming there can be no security if the low-level protocol itself doesn't bolt-in everything needed?

      Because I can't just run an IPSec application on my mouse...
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    5. Re:Wireless keyboard loggers, anyone? by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 2, Informative

      "I can only hope and pray that wireless USB will be very very secure."

      WUSB is intriniscally insecure, just like TCP/IP. If you want a secure connection, you'll need to run a secure protocol over the WUSB connection, such as SSH, SFTP, etc.

      Alternatively, you can use symmetric encryption if a paired set of devices happen to share a key. Imagine touching two devices together and pressing "generate key" on one, and "receive key" on the other. Instant high security.

      It's probably good that it's not being included in the lowest-level transport protocol, because that'll mean that you can build a device without spending 6 years trying to understand the encryption provisions in the speicifcation. Look at WiFi for example -- it claims to have encryption, but you need to run SSL anyway because it's so weak. May as well make the transport protocol dumb, because anything that needs SSL will have to implement it anyway.

  8. Will die like bluetooth by mnmn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One of the biggest advantages of USB is the power that flows through it. I just plug in my mouse, webcam etc and no bulky adapters required. Theyve also been around since the days of the Pentium1, and you can be sure a USB drive will work many places.

    Now wireless.... you'll need batteries or adapters, wont work just everywhere and you'll have to pay motherboard makers to build it in.

    Not too many people need short-range wireless interfaces outside of the 802.11a/b/g, which is different

    --
    "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
    1. Re:Will die like bluetooth by djupedal · · Score: 2, Informative

      One of the biggest advantages of USB is the power that flows through it

      FireWire, with 12V, is much more capable. Examples are pocket drives....the USB models all require a brick/adapter. It's a bit of a stretch to give USB too much credit in this department :)

    2. Re:Will die like bluetooth by prator · · Score: 2, Informative

      So here is the real issue. The USB spec only allows 500mA of current. At work we design boards with USB interfaces, and I can tell you that 500mA is not much.

      I'm not familiar with Firewire, but Wikipedia says that a Firewire cable can provide 60W of power. That is a hell of a lot more than USB.

      -prator

  9. What a relief by mynameis+(mother+... · · Score: 2, Insightful

    All of the problems that immediately came to mind, fell under the unsurprisingly vague section Design Considerations.

    And none of them seem solved...

    Hell, did it even mention what spectrum was being targetted?

  10. Re:Bluetooth by Liselle · · Score: 4, Interesting
    why do we need multiple standards that perform the same function?
    Why do we need more than one OS? More than one web browser? Why do we need more than one video card manufacturer? They both do the same thing, right? If my rhetorical questions aren't enough answer, here it is: competition makes for good products, as companies are forced to compete for consumer dollars. This is obvious, though.
    --
    Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
  11. Wireless power by Fragmented_Datagram · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And now if we could just develop wireless power for all these wireless devices... other than batteries, of course. ;-)

  12. Uh...this could be by iminplaya · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    What?
  13. Why USB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    because USA failed

  14. Obvious by linux_warp · · Score: 4, Funny

    "WUSB will offer the same functionality as standard wired USB devices -- but without the cabling" - I moderate this line redunant - I mean really, if it had cables, then it wouldn't be wireless

  15. Basic Specs from the Article: by G4from128k · · Score: 3, Informative

    Speed? 480 Mbps (USB 2.0 equivalent)
    Security? unknown (better be good)
    Power requirements?100-300 mW
    Range? 10 meters
    Cost? unknown
    Number of Devices? 127

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  16. Highlights by the+JoshMeister · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here are some highlights for those too lazy to skim the article (or in case it gets Slashdotted)...

    • The Wireless USB Promoter Group consists of (of course) Intel and MS, as well as HP, NEC, Philips Semiconductors, Samsung Electronics, and Agere Systems
    • WUSB hosts can connect to as many as 127 WUSB devices at a time
    • Targeted bandwidth of 480 Mbps (same as USB 2.0)
    • The biggest selling point seems to be that it "will offer the same functionality as standard wired USB devices but without the cabling"
  17. Re:How does this excel existing standards? by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 5, Informative
    (sigh) RTFA duude!
    • target 480Mbps (ie USB2) expect to hit 1Gbps at some point
    • Looks like they're spec'ing minimal "basic security" for the connection itself, as they go on to say "Higher levels of security involving encryption should be implemented at the application level", implying that encryption will not be part of the WUSB spec itself.
    • "For example, typical PDAs use 250-400 mW without a radio connection, while typical cellular phones use 200 mW-300 mW with the primary WAN radio. Adding a WUSB radio should not increase power requirements any more than existing wireless technologies already employed today. "
    • "connectivity at less than 10 meters"
    • Cost is a result of production, not (necessarily) something you can just spec in the design. Although they do say "Low-cost implementation of WUSB will also be important to the successful integration of the technology. Implementation will follow the wired USB connectivity models as closely as possible to reduce development time and to preserve the low-cost, easy-to-use model, which has become pervasive in the PC industry. "
    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  18. Re:So... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Funny

    which one will the FPS gamer want?

    Bluetooth mouse, WUSB mouse, or standard wireless mouse??


    They'll want a standard wired mouse, thank you very much. All others risk downtime for battery changes. :)

  19. Handsfree Headsets by Knetzar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Will this have a standard way for wireless headsets to connect to phones and wireless headphones to connect to audio equipment?

    If not, bluetooth is needed as well.

  20. Re:So... by mcbridematt · · Score: 2, Informative

    probably the standard wireless mouse. USB in it's own right eats up CPU power, which in turn, eats fps. WUSB probably won't be different. The usage for USB mice wouldn't be much, but any extreme gamer might take it as too much =(

    Not to mention any lag factors with wireless.

  21. Re:Ok... by reidconti · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wait a second. Has anybody figured out why we need batteries for our wireless keyboards and mice? Is it a conspiracy? I mean, seriously. You can't convince me that wireless mice -- which use all of 1 AA battery that lasts for, well, months I imagine.. couldn't be powered by some kind of capacity setup and a wheel that generated power from the mouse ball. Of course, this is different with optical mice, but there's no reason there couldn't be some kind of ball for generating power, and then optical sensors for the tracking, so as to avoid the traditional problem with conventional mice where the pickups get dirty..

    And keyboards? Give me a break! Don't tell me there isn't enough energy coming from my typing, to transmit that information to my computer...

    Has anybody worked on this?

    I want my patent.

    - reid

  22. Quote from CCNA Book by b0lt · · Score: 2, Funny

    "The laptop is connected wirelessly to the radio tower via a serial connection
    A wireless serial cable, eh?

    --
    got sig?
  23. It's not really wireless... by cbreaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People get so caught up in the wireless craze..

    But unless it's a PDA, keyboard, or mouse, it's not going to be wireless, you'll have to plug it into the wall for power. Unless of course, you like buying lots and lots of batteries. Rechargable you say? Find a wireless battery charger and I'll retract.

    So, you still have to cable the power cord. I mean, I'm not really saying this wireless stuff is bad, it's not. You can plug in your printer across the room and not have to run the USB/LPT cable.

    I guess you have to take the name "wireless" literally, it's not "wirenone" it's just LESS wires.

    If this becomes a common standard, however, it would be nice being able to buy *any* wireless USB mouse and not worry about what brand reciever you have. Although, this really isn't a huge issue.. Logitech wireless KB/Mouse stuff is cheap anyways.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  24. No, no no... by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bluetooth is dead, remember?

  25. Not necessarily by polv0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    By the time this ships maybe the mouse pad will be a power pad.

  26. Re:Bluetooth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not many at Best Buy, However at UPS (as in United Parcel Service) they recently bought scanners using Bluetooth to connect a base station attached to workers by a belt, with a scanner strapped to their hands. The result is soemthing very Sci-Fi'ish and actually quite useful (you can walk the scanner portion long distances away from the base portion and it will still function as intended -- using bluetooth)

    I'm certain other large firms have things like this using bluetooth. While I have no personal use for bluetooth, and prefer wired devices anyhow, there are undoubtedly many companies using it to solve tricky issues.
    Though since bluetooth is dead I guess nobody will be using it anymore.

  27. Re:Umm by Bored+Huge+Krill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it's all about drivers. From a software point of view, it'll look like USB. That might not sound like a big deal, but believe me, if you develop USB devices, it matters a lot

  28. Re:Ok... by Micro$will · · Score: 2, Funny
    What about power cables, or is going to be a wind up keyboard and mouse?

    I don't think this is a bad idea. Think of all the money saved in batteries and/or chargers. I wouldn't mind winding them up, as long as they generated power quietly and my mouse doesn't shoot across the room after I let go like my old Evil Knievel stunt cycle.

  29. I am waiting for.. by lunartik · · Score: 2, Funny

    FireWireless

  30. What about wireless Firewire? by Ada95 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Should it be called Firewireless or just Fire?

    1. Re:What about wireless Firewire? by evilviper · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, since it's firewire, and it goes through the air, I think the perfect name would be "Firebird".

      I've done months of research, so I'm sure the name is not being used by anyone else...

      </SARCASM>

      (BTW, this post was plagarized.... from myself... circa a wireless firewire topic from months ago)

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  31. Re:Umm by Christ-on-a-bike · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Clearly backward compatibility is one of the major selling points. It means I can plug my existing USB 2.0 media player/hard drive into a little WUSB dongle when I get near my house. I can then immediately sync it with my PC as I walk around the room, rather than having to plug it in. If the dongle is small enough, I might even be able to leave it plugged into the player permanently.

    Also, it ensures an old PC is forward compatible with new WUSB peripherals, as you can get a WUSB hub for wired USB. No new motherboard/PCI cards required.

    For instance, you could put a WUSB hub on each floor of your house. Now your WUSB webcam can be moved around the whole house streaming video to your PC. That's pretty cool.

  32. Re:How does this excel existing standards? by Monkelectric · · Score: 3, Insightful
    200 mW-300 mW

    Is it just me or is anyone else in a perpetual state of battery hell? I'm looking at the devices on my desk right now that I use throught my day -- PDA, Graphing Calculator, Cell Phone, Digital Camera, and two MP3 players (one solid state for jogging, one HD based one for trips).

    Between all these things I'm drowning in power transformers, docking stations, and battery chargers! I feel like a fleet manager, its practically a full time job making sure everything has power.

    --

    Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

  33. This isn't about bluetooth.. by beldraen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It doesn't make sense to "kill" bluetooth. The standard is there, although broken in some respects. Plenty of devices have started to use it. For it's purpose of low power use and simple connectivity, it has things going for it. Bluetooth's only real issue has been cost. When I can buy a bluetooth card for $220 or a lan card for $99, which do you think someone will invest in? However, consider the issue of the exploding WAN market. Everyone's battling over who makes 801.11b, g, and whatever new variant that comes along (dual channel, etc.) The single greatest problem with WAN is that you've got the idea of connectivity, but not the bandwidth or the standard for device connection for high bitrate media. I can buy a Wi-Fi DVD/Dixv/MP3 player, but I have to have the company's specific software to use it and I have to have the local network configured correctly. What would happen if you started with USB and added in your own wireless spec? You start with a device model that everyone has already agreed on and can instantly support plug-and-play device detection. They can by-pass the politics of getting an agreed upon standard networking protocal since it is not trying to tie into ethernet. They can just create a virtual networking device driver and route it over USB and we have 480 Mb wireless networking. Intel could easily become the dead center of media-centric, wireless conectivity.

    --
    Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me
  34. Re:Bluetooth by Christ-on-a-bike · · Score: 4, Insightful
    (Open) standards are nice because they promote competition. For example, we have many competing email programs because email is a vendor-neutral standard and anyone can write to it. BTW the same goes for the web (HTTP, HTML) and graphics cards (AGP, VESA, OpenGL, DirectX).

    Competition between standards makes a lot less sense. With Betamax vs. VHS a lot of people, consumers and manufacturers, wasted a lot of time investing in and supporting the wrong one. (DVD writing is a similar, which was saved in part by the shared form factor). This could easily happen here, though I personally think Bluetooth and WUSB are very different (different topologies, for one thing).

    You do have a point though. Some protocols/standards are just better, and there should be competition between groups to get their standard accepted. But this should happen before large-scale adoption of one or the other, to minimise 'damage' to the early adopters. At the moment it looks like Intel is jumping the gun, because its standard is not ratified by the IEEE (the relevant standards agency). Better for everyone if an open standard is agreed by everyone before devices are put on the shelf. Sadly, this doesn't always happen.

  35. Is Intel going to do this with everything? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Are they just going to tack some new capability onto USB every time there's a superior competing technology?

    USB was fine for what it was originally designed for. Then Intel had to juice it up a little bit to try to convince people it was better than FireWire. Now they've got Bluetooth in their sights.

    I would much rather have several different technologies that each do one or two things exceptionally well, rather than one technology that's trying to be all things to all people.

    Microsoft is trying to shoehorn Windows into everything, and look what we've got to show for it: PDAs that need more horsepower than a workstation from five years ago had, BMWs that develop a mind of their own, an albatross of a game console, etc...

    It's like Intel is slapping a wig and fake tits on some big, burly truck driver and trying to convice people it's just as good or better than a real woman.

  36. bluetooth meet wifi by hitmark · · Score: 2, Interesting

    so what are we looking at here? wifi without the tcp/ip layer? cant they just use wifi and hotwire the usb protocol on top?

    if this is going into the cellphone then forget it, its shooting birds with warship guns time. i dont have anything on my cellphone that needs that kind of transfer speed. maybe those pda/cellphone hybrids need them but they allready have wifi.

    so end of story is, bluetooth for address book, wifi for files.

    --
    comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    1. Re:bluetooth meet wifi by imroy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      so what are we looking at here? wifi without the tcp/ip layer?

      I may be assuming too much here, but I imagine that since WiFi is 802.11 it's based on the existing Ethernet standards. So WiFi has no more to do with IP than the wired version we all know and love. I haven't heard of anyone doing so, but you could probably try running other ethernet-based protocols over WiFi e.g IPX/SPX, Ethertalk, AX.25(?), Token Ring, etc. The devices still use 48-bit MAC addresses and (I could be wrong) similar frame sizes.

    2. Re:bluetooth meet wifi by man_ls · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can run absolutely anything to want over WiFi.

      WiFi is the lowest two layers of the OSI model: The physical layer (the radios) and the datalink layer (CSMA/CA)

      Anything else is software. Network layer, and so on.

      Thus -- you can run anything that runs over Ethernet, over WiFi.

  37. Bill wants you to have it by frovingslosh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You're missing the point. USB should never have happened either. Firewire already existed, was better, faster, and UBS didn't address anything that firewire didn't do at least as well. (And for many things, Ethernet might have been a better choice than USB too). But we got USB shoved down our throats. Of course, many of use still needed firewire adapters, and the USB built into my expensive notebook is pretty much worthless since it's USB 1.1 (too slow to talk to many devices like external hard drives or DVD/CD writers at a reasonable speed). No one but Microsoft and Intel wanted USB 1.1, but we got it. No reasonable person wants wireless USB (bluetooth and the 802.11x protocols each do better in their own areas and we certainly don't need WUSB interfearing with them), but you're going to get it.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:Bill wants you to have it by frovingslosh · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I don't think that one of your points, that USB is only useful when run at high speed, is necessarily valid.

      I didn't mean to say that USB was only useful at high speed (although I can see where you take that meaning). I wanted to make two points: One) that Firewire would have been a much better choice when USB came out (in fact is still a better choice) and could have done everything USB could. Sure, mice and keyboards can run on something as god awful slow as usb 1.1 just fine, but there was no valid reason to build something that slow when firewire already existed. If USB had not been shoved down our throats and firewire used in it's place we would have firewire mice, keyboards, scanners and the rest. "Easy" is also just an issue because the USB drivers are pre-bundeled, if the better choice of firewire had been made then all of those devices would still work the same way for firewire. And Firewire is hot pluggable, the last benefit you attribute to USB. One thing that I don't think firewire offers in it's current form is the power supplying capability of USB, but a firewire based system with power also on the connector could certainly have been made, which would have given us one unified system.

      Point Two): was that the choice of USB1.1 was clearly short sighted. The day I saw it I asked people "who ordered this" and within days I saw promise of a faster version coming in the future. But that didn't stop the spread of USB 1.1, with it's slow speed limitations. My notebook is less than a year old, not inexpensive, yet only USB 1.1 support was available in that product line. A lot of people spent a lot of money for USB 1.1 hubs and other devices that are going to start gathering dust soon (if not already) as they migrate to USB2, just to get close to where firewire was when USB came out.

      Sure it has vendor support, but Microsoft is far from irrelevant there. We could speculate on why they did it to us, but such speculation can always be argued against. The point is this stuff originally came from Microsoft and Intel and there were better solutions at the time, only Microsoft's market presure made USB 1.1 what the vendors supported. And there is better technology than wusb, but Bill will give you wusb and tell you that it's good enough for you, likely while promising to give you wusb3 some day soon to fix the limitations of wusb.

      By the way, there are not always better solutions for the applications I mentioned. Sure, I have my hard drives on an IDE interface on my desktop (and have used SCSI and other inferface technology as well), but when you want to add 120 gigs to a notebook with no external docking connector (or the ability to carry that much data on a hard drive to another location), you need something that can plug into a notebook or another computer. That isn't USB 1.1. While USB 2 is now about the same speed as firewire (actually slightly faster), it doesn't do the job that firewire does in allocating bandwidth on the bus. And just having multiple standards makes it much harder to find mating equipment and more expensive (anyone know where I can get a PCMCIA card with WiFi, USB2 and firewire on it, or even just both USB2 and firewire on the same PCMCIA card for an honest price?)

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    2. Re:Bill wants you to have it by cHiphead · · Score: 2, Informative

      actually its firewire that has the power supplying ability, USB only has a trickle of power. thats why the iPod can be charged by just pluggin it into the firewire port, but not with the usb connector.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  38. Re:Loses main advantages of USB by |<amikaze · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Doesn't this lose the main advantages of USB: Devices drawing power from the bus, and high speed? Give me Bluetooth over this anyday.

    These, of course, being things that Bluetooth brings to the table...

    WUSB does actually bring high speed with it, whereas Bluetooth, as far as I know, is relatively low speed. WUSB's target is 480MBit, which is pretty fast for wireless.

    And I'd like to hear your suggestions for getting wireless power.

  39. Original USB Spec? by minion · · Score: 2, Funny

    It'll probably be just like the original USB spec - the distance had to be less than 2m to work.

    --

    -- If we don't stand up for our rights, now, there will be no right to stand up for them later.
  40. Re:Ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Someone (Toshiba? Micron?) was working on a power-generating notebook keyboard a couple of years back. I'm not sure if it ever resulted in a product. Each key had a little coil that generated a tiny current over its travel. It wasn't supposed to be enough to actually power the computer, just lengthen battery life, but might be enough for a wireless Bluetooth keyboard. Depending on the type of work, and the typist I suppose. ;)

    For the mouse, your best bet would probably be a flywheel or gyro type arrangement similar to a self-winding watch. Kind of like one of those cool gyro-sensing mice in reverse.

    There are other sources of energy available, of course, like heat from human hands, ambient light, etc. Anyone can come up with something that barely works for a patent application; making it cheap enough to be ubiquitous is the tricky bit.

  41. Re:Ok... by ummcdou4 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Interesting idea,

    One problem might be that in order to drive an inductor or other type of charging mechanism you would necessarily need some friction from the mouse ball, the more friction, the more power generated.

    I'm not sure how much friction a user would put up with using the mouse, certainly gamers would have none of it.

  42. WUSB Hardrives? by utlemming · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Looking over the other posts there was some concern about security. But the thing that I saw that made me bulk was the idea of WUSB hard drive. The problem I see is what happens if you turn off your computer, and your WUSB hard drive is on? Does that mean that some punk can then access your hard drive? Some things should be left with the security of a wire. I am all for innovation, but this is one area that I can see problems. Brings wardriving to a whole new dimension. Forget trying to hack the computer, just hack the hard drive. A hackers dream. And the whole idea of security being implemented on the software level -- something tells me that it means that WUSB may not be open source friendly. What vendor is going to want to release open source drivers for something that they most likely half-aced? Somehow I see a problem akin to the WiFi drivers -- few selection for those of us that want to use open source and use WiFi. A nice idea, but I nessarily like the idea of having my printer hijacked because some smuck walks by with a laptop.

    --
    The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
  43. One major adantage of USB over WUSB by Karora · · Score: 2, Insightful


    A supply of power to the device.

    No, seriously, one of the advantages USB is supposed to deliver is that it has a 5v supply that can deliver power to devices so they don't need a power adaptor any more. Sometimes it even works, too - I have an unpowered USB doohickey that I plug my camera media into, for example. Do that with WUSB :-)

    --

    ...heellpppp! I've been captured by little green penguins!
  44. Re:Ok... by Lost+Race · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Heat isn't a useful source of energy unless there is a significant temperature differential. I.e. the difference between your 295 K mouse and your 305 K hand is not going to make enough electricity to run the transmitter.

    How about a coil in the mouse, and magnets in the mousepad? Fits in pretty well with the optical no-moving-parts philosophy and it generates the electricity pretty directly (straight out the coil). I think you might also need a capacitor to hold a reserve so you can get instant response whenever you start moving the mouse.

    If nobody's already patented this... well, I call prior art!

  45. Power Requirements by Featureless · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let me summarize why Bluetooth is not dead, and wireless USB is not really a competitor for bluetooth:

    Wireless USB Power requirements: 300 mw ("with a target of 100 over time")
    Bluetooth power requirements: 100 mW, 2.5 mW, 1 mW (the last two are class 2 and 3, the variants widely used.)

    Frankly, wireless USB sounds less interesting to me. Well, it's a threat to Wifi, from the sound of it. It's really, really fast and power hungry. It sounds primarily for unwiring our desk-bound, non-mobile computer peripherals from the computer. But then we will have to plug them all into the wall instead. So there are a few that had power anyway and now we've cut the number of cables from 2 to 1 - OK. But quite a few the only cable was USB (and that was providing power) anyway. It wouldn't be a viable solution for things like wireless mouses and keyboards, for instance. And I don't think I'd want that instead of bluetooth for the PDA/phone or PDA/computer link.

    There are a lot of applications where very low power (1 mw!) is much more important than bandwidth.

  46. bad analogy by sbma44 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    to extend it: why don't we have multiple types of roads? If we had some with 3 foot wide lanes, some made of cobblestones, etc, the consumer will have so much more choice.

    No; when it comes to infrastructure, standards are a good thing. You can complain about monocultures all you want, but for infrastructure -- a category I am using to describe things like the language you speak, the voltage coming to your house, the broadcast standard encoding your TV signal -- uniformity is good.

    New wireless standards should be introduced because they provide added functionality and can be reasonably expected to eventually replace the old standard; not just for diversity of choice.

    With all that said, I think bluetooth's drivers are so miserable and its range/speed/power consumption such a poor choice that I'm ready to send it to the scrap heap. A zigbee/wifi breakdown seems like a much better solution to me than a compromise wireless standard that's not only slow and short range, but uses too much power to be left on all the time on mobile devices.

    1. Re:bad analogy by Liselle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, my first reaction to your "road" analogy is that roads aren't really something that you go out and buy. The same with TV signals, electricity, etc. Infrastructure is a bit different, imo.

      If you want to use a road analogy, I say use a travel analogy. You can get from point A to point B in a variety of different ways: plane, train, bus, taxi, your own car, bicycle, walk, etc. Each has advantages and disadvantages, cost considerations and time constraints. The existance of multiple forms of travel makes it better for the consumer, because they compete with each other for passengers, so to speak.

      I guess the problem with multiple "standards" is that newly shipped newbie-style Dell computers will have to make a stand on one of them, and that will cause incompatibility problems if the things are structured poorly. It's easy to pin blame, there. But we still have things like FireWire and USB. *shrug*

      --
      Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
  47. No! Re:Doesn't this already exist? by samjam · · Score: 3, Insightful

    RS232 is simple as you say although the spec is bigger than two pages.

    The Bluetooth specs include shared access to a noisy medium, so theres a lot of pages to the specification just to get that working. Want to see how many pages of specs relating to the various networks there are? Including the actual media, the signal as well as the bottom layer protocols?

    Bluetooth also includes a lot of bluetooth profiles. This are roughly equivalent to the HTTP, SMTP, IMAP etc specs as used for internet services. You want to see how many of those can fit on two pages?

    The only reason bluetoth has innovation happening at the edges is because the in-between is the ether.

    You want something as simple as 2 pages and a bit of soldering? How about morse code and AM modulation, cos thats all you'll get.

    Sam

  48. Empty promise of security by ricksmith · · Score: 2, Insightful
    When Intel says security for wireless USB will be "the same as" wired USB, they're asserting a marketing objective. They're not describing a technical feature.

    In fact, a lot of the security inherent in wired USB is tied to its inconvenience. Effective security requires that you "introduce" the two devices (the computer and the peripheral) to one another such that there's no ambiguity. If the two float out of range and float back in again, they have to pick each other up correctly.

    With wired USB, it's clear how you switch a peripheral from one computer to another: I either switch the cables back and forth or plug in to a USB switch. What would a wireless USB switch look like? You can't automatically glom onto whichever device is closest, especially if you're in the middle of something like disk defragmentation or burning a CD.

    None of these problems are unsolvable, but the solutions won't yield a wireless USB technology that's a transparent replacement for wired USB.

    Sorry, Intel, but wireless is different.