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NYC Crosswalk Buttons are Inoperative
cdneng2 writes "NY Times has an article that New
York crosswalk push buttons are actually ineffective.
Apparently, New York City deactivated most of the pedestrian
buttons long ago with the emergence of computer-controlled
traffic signals. From the article, 'More than 2,500 of the 3,250
walk buttons that still exist function essentially as mechanical
placebos, city figures show.' Well, apparently New York city isn't
the only city like this. I guess the answer lies in the same
reason why people press
the elevator button more than once."
i've seen much people even pushing the "down" AND the "up" button on elevators when they want do go up OR down, because: "then it comes faster" ... most of them are to stupid to realise that they just make it stop twice (and taking longer). ...
everytime i see someone whos doing that i want to punch him
Actually, lots of traffic signals here in Germany have touch-sensitive Buttons, which can't really be pressed. You just touch them and they notice the change in temperature.
Since you don't get any feedback, it doesn't really satisfy and I'm always left with the feeling that it didn't register the request at all.
Fleur de Sel
The real reason is that almost all NYC traffic lights are on a timer anyway. Unlike most areas of the country that have on-demand lights that are sensitive to traffic and keep green for the major roadway, if you wait a minute the light will change anyway. So why interrupt the rare possible synchronized goodness on a Manhattan avenue for the impatient pedestrian?
The downside to this timer approach is that you often wait for nobody at red lights at 3am. Stooopid lazy NYC planners.
Either that or the trigger antennas that they would need to place under the roadway can't take the winter punishment.
--dv
Insert witty saying or aphorism here.
Crosswalk buttons are just a signal to drivers that a person is planning to cross the street. In big, pedestrian cities like New York, you don't need the buttons because there's almost always someone waiting to cross the street, and drivers know this. In my life, the only place I've made a point to use the buttons is in the suburban area where I live now, because a person standing on a streetcorner may or may not be waiting to cross the street, and the drivers are really bad at yielding to pedestrians.
I could kill you, sure, but I could only make you cry with these words
So you wind up having to get off the bike, walk to the pedestrian button, hit it, get back on, and wait. Given this, I wish everything worked like New York in this regard.
In fact, in the building where I work now, there are two banks of elevators: one for the lower half of the building and another for the upper half (plus ground floor). They all look identical, and so one would think they were. Not so. The lower ones are not only much slower, but also have ineffective Close Door buttons. What possible thinking could be behind this, I don't know.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
In Nanaimo, BC, Canada, the crosswalk buttons work... kinda.
Except for crosswalks (where there is no cross street), all the buttons do is turn on the walk signal when the light turns green. They don't change the timing any. Thanks a lot, public works, I could've figured it out myself.
To make matters more interesting, one of the crosswalks takes so long to change that whoever pressed the button has usually jaywalked by the time it changes.
Remember, "professional" means that you get paid for it, not that you're any good at it.
I've seen so many different things on the elevator buttons. What everyone is failing to consider is that there are different models and makes of elevator! Hitting the door close button in Elevator A may do nothing, but in Elevator B, it may work. What people are also failing to consider is that the door close button is simply broken. That is not the type of error that is likely to be fixed.
I think you're on the right track with psychology, but I think it's actually societal communication. If I walk up and just stand near you, that's creepy and I'm weird. If I push the button, you know I want to ride the elevator so now standing near you is perfectly acceptable and normal behavior. At least I think that's how it processes somewhere deep in our minds.
As for using the open/close buttons or pressing more than once, I think that's a "I'm in a hurry" signal. I don't understand why it's important to communicate this, but if you pay attention people usually signal one way or another whether or not they are in a hurry.
Now as far as the crosswalk signs go, I thought they actually worked and were put there so pedestrians didn't have to wait for a car to trip the signal lights. Downtown areas seem to have these buttons less, which makes sense since there's more likely to be cross traffic or the lights are timed rather than triggered by demand. I'm surpised to hear there are dummy boxes out there.
Heh.
I live in NYC (wait for the light to change - no point in pushing the button). On my trip to England I was doing the same thing (well, until I figured it out [after a few minutes waiting for the light to change]).
Oh, yeah, and THANKS for the `look ->' signs. If it weren't for those, I'd be road kill. Almost got ran over by a bus when I steped out of the airport.
"If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy
that's referred to as a "job."
You can be an amateur and still get paid.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
The one that always gets me shaking my head is when someone turns a thermostat fully to the max (or min) position, presumably to make the temperature change more quickly.
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
There does seem to be an informal sense among pedestrians that pressing the button should cause the ped signal to activate sooner, since they are there and requesting service, but that is not the case. The only thing pressing the button changes is whether that special ped phase cycle is used or not.
I think it's a reasonably fair expectation, as long as the intersection falls into the first two categories (which is most of the intersections I walk at, but wouldn't be the case for most intersections in a downtown setting)
The intersections I tend to use fall into several categories:
1) There is minimal traffic in the direction I cross in, thus pushing the button gives instant satisfaction, since the primary direction has had plenty of time to go anyhow.
2) The primary direction of traffic is in the direction I cross. Some of these intersections will change the the signal to walk without waiting for a red, others I just walk through against the don't walk, cause it's safe.
3) Both directions have heavy traffic, and the button only makes sure I have enough time to walk across, oh well. Many of these intersections don't even have buttons, since as you noted they're not necessary, either there is enough pedestrian volume, or the cycle is long enough for pedestrians anyhow.
4) I'm crossing a major thoroughfare, which has a long green time, so I tend to get the fuzzy end of the lollypop, unless i get lucky with timing.
Need a Catering Connection
Okay, I've read all that, and it pretty much confirms rather than allays my suspicions:
(a) the pedestrian sensor looks at the centre of the area where pedestrians would stand. But the buttons are right at the edge of that area. And cyclists can't move sideways.
(b) No mention of how long it takes from pressing a button to getting a green light. My guess is that it's "2 minutes, or when there's no traffic, whichever is earlier"
Which means that yes, the light does indeed fail to stop traffic if it can possibly avoid doing so. Remember that by the time the button is pushed, someone is already waiting
Having lights which take so long to react seems quite dangerous, because people will give up and cross anyway, and almost get hit by a police car
As to 'pre-timed max', surely imposing a "minimum time between stopping cars" doesn't have any effect if the crossing was just waiting there doing nothing for 10 minutes before I arrived? Unless it sets a minimum time for pedestrians to wait, which is just too dumb to even contemplate.
I think that when people press an elevator or traffic crossing button more than once, it's more likely due to the fact that they think themselves to be stuck relatively helpless in a situation beyond their control. Pushing the buttons repeatedly is a way of attempting to gain control over that situation (at least in a mental masturbatory sort of way). Even though it does not work, it can't hurt, and it gives people the feeling that even if they're not in control of the unfavorable situation, they're doing all they can, by god. :)
I think you are right on about the "sympathetic pressing of the elevator button" though; that seems to be a way of declaring that you have benign intentions.
Or at least severly reduce it. Think of the hidden costs of personal car ownership in terms of infrastructure and city planning. It'd be nice to see a TCO study and shove it in the face of the people who think infrastructure for trains or subways is expensive.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
If your true goal was to keep people alive, instead of maximizing convenience for drivers at the expense of everyone else, you would lower speed limits, eliminate right turn on red, create four way stops, and add time for pedestrians to cross when no turns are allowed.
If you think that the American government cares about the safety of foreign nationals, then you clearly haven't been paying attention to the news lately. Take the first time you get clipped by an SUV as your warning.
You don't actually live in NYC do you? Cab drivers in NYC aren't "always reckless". I take NYC cabs all the time and although the drivers aren't little old ladies, they are seldom reckless. With taxi medallions costing $200,000 they have to maximize return from the vehicle. That is the reason taxi drivers seem impatient and in a hurry - time is money, literally, to taxi drivers. There are always exceptions, but taxi drivers in NYC are generally pretty good.
Most cabs in NYC are driven 24 hours per day. As one driver gets out the next one takes over. If one damages the cab TWO drivers are out of a job because New York rules are very strict - no taxi can operate with damaged body panels. Few drivers work for taxi companies where they get a replacement if they wreck the cab.
I ride a bicycle most days in Manhattan and I have very few problems with taxi drivers. The most reckless drivers in NYC are far and away Post Office trucks. Next worse are the the SUVs with Jersey plates. Of all the vehicles in Manhattan, taxis are probably the best driven.
Um somehow I doubt that. Regardless of the light it's a crime to hit a person with a vehicle in both Canada and the USA. However, chances are if you couldn't avoid it you won't get actually charged.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.