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NYC Crosswalk Buttons are Inoperative
cdneng2 writes "NY Times has an article that New
York crosswalk push buttons are actually ineffective.
Apparently, New York City deactivated most of the pedestrian
buttons long ago with the emergence of computer-controlled
traffic signals. From the article, 'More than 2,500 of the 3,250
walk buttons that still exist function essentially as mechanical
placebos, city figures show.' Well, apparently New York city isn't
the only city like this. I guess the answer lies in the same
reason why people press
the elevator button more than once."
Surprisingly enough, NY doesn't have any intersections listed in the top 10 most dangerous intersections list, compiled by State Farm.
However, you can find the 24 most dangerous intersections in NY, as compiled by the NYPD here.
Either way, crossing the street isn't the safest thing in the world.
...don't question it!!!
It's my understanding that the "Close Door" buttons on elevators only exist for the same reason, and they don't do anything.
Kinda like the "brightness" button on the TV set. (To paraphrase the old joke).
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Downtown SLC is the same way. They even have LED displays that count down the time until the light changes. It goes from yellow to red when it starts getting close to 0. It also makes a very audible beeping noise as well. If it's made it safer to walk downtown or not I have no clue.
Hold up, wait a minute, let me put some pimpin in it
I didn't know anyone in NY who waited for a the Walk Signal to turn before start walking. NewYorkers are best at finding the shortest possible route to their destination. And I dont blame them. It is pace of life they experience.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
Computer-controlled traffic lights work a lot better than the old-fashioned timed system. (well, unless the detector screws up, but that's rare) So allowing people to interrupt the sequence would do little good. At the same time, you don't want people standing on one of those 700 crosswalks which will never volunteer a "walk" sign for ages.
So, to make sure that the people use the button in the places they need to, it's easier to leave the buttons on all the intersections. Otherwise, people might not think to use the button when it's necessary, at least not without a lot of time and prompting.
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
I'm from the UK, and went on holiday to Boston in the summer - It didn't seem like the buttons there worked, and most people crossed the street anyway, even though I saw a few times an accident nearly happened because of this.
:-)
This idea seems like it should cause a lot of accidents, but maybe the traffic is regulated well enough, I don't know.
In the UK, we are so used to pressing the buttons, and most people will not cross without waiting for the lights to change. This seems to be completely different to the way things happen in Boston. By the end of our holiday, I was getting bored of waiting, and took the Bostonian approach to crossing the road - don't bother with the buttons - to the disgust of my mum
cars 1
Cars win another round. Why is it w/ all of this technology, and intercomunication that we still give more rights to a person wrapped in metal (ie a car), than a mere mortal walking across the street.
The article didn't talk about the fact that by having a button by the crosswalk, people are more likely to walk to the button first before crossing the road. This has the potential advantage of reducing J walking. (crossing the street illegaly)
Which is the point, of course. People do feel better if they think they've "done something" about any problem - even one as trivial as opening the currently-closed door. Passively waiting for something to happen doesn't come easily to many of us...
:-) In fact, it's more likely that the time-of-last-press is one of the inputs to the algorithm, with earlier presses having a priority. So the more you press, the less chance you have of getting a busy lift :-))
What I find odd are those who hit the 'summon elevator' button more than once - A lift algorithm isn't going to take into account the number of times you press, and I doubt the buttons are pressure-sensitive
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
There was something like that in a Kurt Vonnegut novel whose title has slipped my mind. Something about an automated spaceship with only two controls: a START button, and a STOP button (the latter isn't connected to anything.) The point being that humans feel better when they think they have control over their fate.
Actually, it's probably a moot point - I've never met a New Yorker who actually waits for the light.
At some intersections in Toronto, not only does the walk button work, but unless it's pressed, the walk signal never lights up. (Kind of a pain when the button isn't right at the corner and has a lot of snow around it.) It would be nice if they'd mark the "Cars Prefered" crossings to let people know.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
There is an intersection in the outskirts of Helsinki, Finland, where the push button works even worse. This is an intersection between two pretty big roads with major traffic, and there's a standard traffic light cycle going from "green for road A" to "green for road B", etc. If you are a pedestrian walking in the direction of either road, you need to push the button, and will eventually get a green light at the same time as the drivers on the same road. Now, guess what: the only way the button affects the lights is that you get a green light the next time it's possible -- if you don't push the button, the cycle is exactly the same except that the pedestrian light is red all the time. So the button does nothing but you need to push it to cross legally.
My wife is an orientation and mobility (O&M) instructor, teaching independent travel skills to the blind and visually impaired. A specific task is to teach them how to navigate through cities and make safe intersection crossings. This is the sort of thing that can make O&M people and their clients crazy: "When you reach this intersection, go to the right and find the pedestrian signal activation button. Not that it matters."
"I also belive that at the gas station, Regular, Plus and Premium Unleaded all go to the same tank underground."
Actually, sir, according to a very reputable gas supplier that I know, many gas stations do NOT purchase higher octane fuel. It is far from a preposterous notion, in fact it is a reality at many, many gas stations.
Try Nottingham (the english one) for some really nice crossings, which actually detect a cyclist approaching on cycle-routes (embedded inductive sensor under the pavement) in enough time that it changes the lights in time for you to cross without even needing to slow down.
Now if only more junction designers could have a look at stuff like that, and see how convenient it is when things "just work"...
Elevators doors close faster once someone pushes a floor button. Not the door close button, but a floor button. Try it and find out. If you just stand in an elevator and don't press a floor, it will sit there waiting for someone to get in. This is why I always push a floor button, even if it is already pressed. It has nothing to do with psychological factors.
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
In Cleveland, a large number of crossing signals are synchronized with the stoplights, which are timed, and there's no walk button at all. I know of at least one walk button, however, whose behavior is rather strange: If someone pushes the button, then a period of time goes by, the light changes, and the walk sign illuminates. If nobody pushes the button, then eventually the light will change, but the don't walk sign stays lit. Evidently, you're jaywalking unless you push the button, even if the light changes to be in your favor!
On a related note, ever notice how the "door close" button in most elevators does absolutely nothing? The button in the elevator where I work actually does function properly, letting you send yourself on your way about 6 seconds more quickly than without. If you're standing right by the panel, but you don't push the button - which everyone in the building knows will get you there sooner - everyone else starts shifting around uncomfortably, waiting for you to hurry up and push it. (I've actually seen one professor push the door open in an effort to squeeze another 15ms or so out of it!) But in the next building over, you can pound on the button, hold it in, kick it, or whatever, and the door doesn't close any faster than usual.
It is true, the engine in my car does not run well on low octane which is a problem because where I live the high octane are being fased out.
I had noticed that often after having tanked at a specific station, I often felt the engine ran worse. So after a while, I mentioned it while paying for the gas, just in a half joking way. To my surprise the guy said that they did not have enough tanks in the ground for it but they were one of the (few) stations required to have the high octane. And since not may people buy it, it was bad economy to have another tank digged down(the stations was in the center of the city).
Of course I had seen all the pamphlets saying that I just should get my engine tuned in to run on lower octane, but I'd rather drive longer to get it filled up than have it adjusted and lose the horsepower.
In Glasgow people seem to be used to the fact that you don't need to press the button. So much so that when it comes to a crossing where you do have to push the button, people just ignore it and will watch the stream of traffic go past them for 5 minutes. Great fun to watch.
Dude, Winnipeg's subsurface triggers work, and the place has an 80 degree spread, winter to summer (celsius, without the whinefactor -- that is, without windchill "added in")
The pavement looks like an earthquake zone, of course, but as a motorcyclist, I can confirm that without the proper weight, some lights will *never* change. (I've put on a few pounds. Still, nothing.)
Of course, that's vehicle sensitivity not pedestrian. No reason the sensors can't regulate non-rush hour traffic and let the city planner synchronicity handle the busy times.
in India and (?!) Quebec: countdown timers. It's not as psycho as it first sounds. People don't race to beat the timer. It just chills. everyone. out.
In India they're for the cars. No more edging through reds because you don't know when the frig it's gonna change and you wonder if you're hitting the sensor. No, right there in front of you, 15, 14, 13, 12. So also, you can get that thing out of your glove compartment, there's time. Or take a sip of that drink, bite of that sandwich. No surprises. Numbers in red for stops and in white or green for time till the next stop. You still get the yellow, so people don't race -- they have more time to gradually increase speed if they want to make it through.
In Quebec, it's for the pedestrians. Not nearly as useful IMHO. Cars can look crosswise to see how much time the pedestrians have left, but it's aimed at the pedestrians, to tell them how much time they've got. Doesn't stop people from wandering across with no time left, I've noticed.
The Indian version is the best thing I've seen. Cuts out all of the guesswork and most of the tension and cause for accidents at intersections. Genius. Of course, they're only at super busy intersections.
They also have the #2 best thing I've seen. Across the red lense of traffic lights at the busiest intersections is printed the capitals R E L A X. No foolin.
Well said - and apparently, office thermostats are quite often placebos, too. So much for that coworker who constantly fiddles with the controls...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Stray voltage
After observing the crosswalk for several days and analyzing the pedestrian count, the traffic count, the timing of the lights, and the number of times cars "ran the light", the students determined that your odds of getting hit by a car were less if you crossed at random than if you waited for a "walk" sign.
As with most urban legends, I doubt the validity of the story but it did make for entertaining conversation while waiting for the light.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
There is a simple reason that I press the elevator button when I enter the elevator, even if it's pressed or not. This comes from the simple fact that the elevator closes it's doors faster when I press it.
This is just picking nits, I suppose...
In Minneapolis, most newer signals don't have push buttons (which can be aggravating when there's little traffic), but they will always light up the "walk" sign. However, most older ones which have the push buttons will not light the "walk" sign unless the button was pushed. Usually, this isn't an issue, since people will just walk when the light is green, but certain problems come up.
Pedestrians wishing to cross at "T" intersections that are coming from the top of the T to one of the other corners can get stuck at a "don't walk" sign without being able to see if the traffic light is green or not. Also, there can be problems at intersections with left-turn arrows, since pedestrians get into the habit of going against "don't walk" signs when they see green. In this case they can end up walking right into the path of turning cars. Obviously, people paying attention will either wait or at least make sure no cars have their turn signals on, but I think even people accustomed to such intersections let their minds drift from time to time.
Of course, I think most road and building designers just make awful decisions regarding pedestrians most of the time anyway. I'm sure many college students have cursed their campus's architects since buildings often tend to lie right in the path you want to go. I suppose it's not a big deal in many cases, but some of these buildings are very large and can require quite an excursion to go around. Often, I suppose security is considered to be a big overriding issue, but sometimes things just get to be silly. At least one dorm at the University of Minnesota requires some students to walk about two city blocks inside to get from their rooms to the front doorall other doors are alarmed fire exits. I'm all for promoting exercise, but that's kind of ridiculous, in my opinion.
Bah, I'm wandering off-topic now...
Where my parents live (small village in northern england) there's a bridge on the main street which is only wide enough for one car. So they have lights to control the traffic. What's cool is that at night when there's no-one around, as you drive up to it on red, it detects you coming and switches to green just as you get to it, then you see it switch back the moment you get to the other side.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Recently in Hong Kong, the government installed strange black and yellow machines at the crosswalks.
They look like bathroom soap dispensers, but they're made by either Siemens or Philips. As far as I can tell there's no button on it, but on the front plate, there's a three pronged symbol (reminds me of the biohazard symbol, except the circles are further apart).
These strange machines are replacing the traditional buttons, but I can't figure out how they work. Perhaps some sort of motion detection?
Tinfoil raving: With the recent introduction of smartcard versions of the mandatory ID cards, and the recent public dissatisfaction towards the government, perhaps the government is looking for a way to keep tabs on its citizens. All the more plausible because almost all citizens carry three important things: their ID card, a cell phone, and an RFID stored-value card (used for public transport, convenience store purchases, etc.). Add to that the fact that Chinese people don't mind being drones under the man, as long as they have the right to make money, and I can totally see this happening in 10 years.
Backpacked through a half dozen Southeast Asian countries a little while back, and man, the very first thing I learned to learn about each new culture was whether or not traffic yields to pedestrians. One word: Bangkok.
I almost got run down in Liverpool.
Glad you made it!
Dandelion Wine, hmmm? Like the band? I must know you...
There's a band? Never know.
I think the real reason many people double-press elevator buttons is that many are poorly lighted and don't give a good indication that that have been pressed.
However, I wish that double pressing an elevtor button *would* have a function -- "disabling" the stop at that floor.
In our building and I'm sure others, a couple of elevators go to "mystery" floors and hence have more buttons than others, which means that the "user interface" is non-standard across all elevators. Which means that people tend to automatically push the button at grid position x,y where their floor normally is -- leading to frequent empty stops and slow elevator rides.
A way to unselect a floor would be great and would lead to faster elevator rides and no more empty stops.
What? They don't offer 93 gas?
Over here (Perth, Western Australia) the standard unleaded is RON 91 and the premium is at least RON 96 with BP Ultimate having a RON of 98.
And almost every gas station in our state has premium. You can get BP Ultimate from *ANY* BP gas station.
Why should there be no way to register a walker is waiting when the traffic isn't always busy enough? I like the suggestion of the second story that they are reconnecting the buttons for people like me that walk at night. I don't think buttons should override the traffic control system but they should be taken into account. It's hard enough walking with so many drivers not even bothering to look for crossing pedestrians. I'm hit by cars all the time. No serious injuries yet but I frequently hear of walkers or bikers killed by careless drivers.
Of course if it was up to me I'd outlaw driving inside the city for non-emergency and non-delivery vehicles. Let people walk, bike, or take public transit. It'd make the city cleaner, people healthier, and increase business for small shops and street venders (not to mention for taxi services, limo services, buses, trains, etc). Probably what I'd actually do is charge tolls frequently (at every intersection with lights?) along the streets for people who didn't have a business pass. So people could still own cars for use of driving outside the city or for their own emergency use.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
In lab experiments, they tested what happens if a rat gets a treat:
So, what happened to your biggest complainer?
This whole discussion has developed a life of its own... it's interesting that so many people freely apply and so ardently defend the use of "professional" and "profession." The historical and sociological context behind the term makes for a thought-provoking read.
This has truly been an interesting discussion, particularly if you look at this issue from a (somewhat outdated) historical sense... meaning the late renaissance definition of profession, referring particularly to the ancient professions of divinity, law, and medicine (and sometimes soldiery). The evolution of that term progressed in the 19th century, to the point that it now includes engineers, architects, teachers (the "teaching profession") etc (and cab drivers, apparently)... but the classical professions were the original prototype.
Sociologist Geoffrey Millerson wrote a classic book on the topic in the mid-sixties, where he layed out the requirements in his formal definition of "profession": (keep in mind that for some professions, these things go back to antiquity)
Skill based on theoretical knowledge
Required training and education
Competence demonstrated by testing
Ethical code of conduct
Altruistic goals
Professional organization
Some of this formal sociological definition has survived, and can be noted in Webster's definition of profession... but note how much it has broadened... it's tremendous... we're now to the point that many consider anyone who does something for pay as a "professional" in that field.
As a member of one of the previously mentioned "classical professions," it's fascinating to me to watch the evolution of the term.
Thanks to everyone who posted for the interesting thread.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
I wrote much of the centralized traffic control and communications code for NYC's traffic control system back in the early nineties (a VME-based system using SVR4 UNIX and VxWorks running on 68030 processors which replaced the previous IBM system from the late '60-early'70s.) I recall a story that I heard when I was helping install the system. There was a community in NY complaining about needing to have a crosswalk signalized because people were having difficuly crossing the street. The traffic flow technically didn't require that a signal be installed, but it seemed that it would be politically expendient to do so, so a crosswalk signal was installed. There was evidently quite a bit of outrage when the citizens in the area dicovered it was a push-button activated crosswalk. You see, it turns out this was an Orthodox Jewish community - they couldn't push the button on the Sabbath (religous taboo, for those who don't understand) and thus had even more difficulty crossing to get to the synagogue. (I can't say for sure if the story was true, but it wouldn't be suprising if it was.)
I'm the original AC, for the record.
of course you are.
You should relax... it's good for you. Incidently, I have no problem with people who work fast food, but if you insist on taking that as an insult, then by all means, be insulted... it really doesn't matter to me. My statement was more intended as a commentary on the loosening use of the term "professional."
The original poster wrote: Of course not as many accidents are going to happen, they're pros.
Which to me implies a measure of skill... not whether they fit the legal definition of a profession. A subsequent poster (iabervon) made the point that getting paid is what defines a profession... and he's partially right... but that's also the definition of a job, and doesn't begin to tell the whole story behind profession, professionalism, etc. Websters dictionary is just the beginning...
Also, it's OK that you thread-jacked this discussion into a dictionary fest, because this is slashdot, and we can do that... but the original poster clearly implied professional as a measure of skill, not as a result of a paycheck. Of course job and profession are not mutually exclusive... but getting a paycheck qualifies you for either definition... and you're quite right that professional must not necessarily relate to skillfulness, but like it or not, that is the definition that started this thread.
As a professional myself, the term implies much more to me than simply getting paid... but that's a thread for another day.
Thanks for the interesting discussion.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
by James Gleick, described here. A most excellent book. It has a chapter or two on this exact phenomenon, and some interesting facts about elevator design and placement in various kinds of office buildings and skyscrapers.
Also a chapter on the NTP network and the master clocks at the US Naval Observatory.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
When I was at uni in Plymouth there was (and still is) a very complex cross junction right outside the university. It appeared that it was entirely controlled by the push buttons for pedestrians presumably due to the high volume of pedestrians crossing the junction to get to uni. This was dispite the main route through the junction being what we brits quaintly call a dual carrageway (two lanes in each direction for the rest of you) and one of the main routes into the city center.
The really fun came if you were around the junction when traffic was really quiet. You would regulary see people jump out of their cars when they had been stuck on the main route at a red light, rush across the road, press one of the buttons to allow pedestrians to cross one of the side routes and rush back to their car knowing that by the time they got back the lights would have changed to let them drive off!
another Roadkill on the Information Superhighway