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Chernobyl...18 Years Later

abysmilliard writes "A young Ukrainian woman has posted a photo journal of her motorcycle rides through Chernobyl and the area surrounding it. Included are pictures of the now-emptied city, maps of current radiation levels, and a discussion of how the area has changed. While the english is quite broken, it's often rather surreal, as well, with quotes like, 'I don't know how sound the silence to those tourists that they can not stand it, but to me after hitting a red line on my bike tacho it sound like all those ghosts cursing 1100cc kawasaki engin.'"

79 of 971 comments (clear)

  1. It's a lesson by superpulpsicle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The disaster was a damn good example of bad mix of technology, science and politics. Boy, don't we have plenty of that in the U.S.

    1. Re:It's a lesson by shadowbearer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, amen.

      That is one brave girl. Smart, too, to have a dosimeter along.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    2. Re:It's a lesson by Bootsy+Collins · · Score: 2, Interesting


      This link may help. The one thing it doesn't explain that most people don't go in already knowing is that neutron capture, and subsequent fission, of uranium is more likely (in nuclear physics terms, the fission cross-section is higher) if the neutrons are slowed down a bit from the energies they had when their parent nucleus fissioned.

    3. Re:It's a lesson by Crash6-24 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've worked at Hanford for 25+ years - inside the N-reactor (it was graphite moderated), in the tank farms where millions of gallons of radioactive waste are still stored, in Z-plant where they made Pu ingots, and you get used to working in a radioactive environment. You ignore what might happen if the radioactive material got loose. Would Spokane be abandoned? The Columbia polluted? The article gives a preview of a future I hope won't come to pass.
      Sometimes the scariest reporting is the most amateurish/heartfelt/honest.

    4. Re:It's a lesson by RayBender · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You sound as if you are thinking that any radiation is bad or that radiation itself is bad.

      It is. That is exactly what I am saying. In another example of me knowing more about this than you, there is NO safe level of exposure to ionizing radiation, natural or not. It isn't like a chemical or biological exposures where there are minimum affective doses. ANY radiation passing through your body has the potential to mutate that one single unlucky cell into a cancer cell.

      Slow down there cowboy. Your cells have mechanisms in place to repair DNA. In fact, every second of every day your cells are getting some small amount of DNA damage from chemical byproducts of your metabolism (free radicals), UV radiation, and natural background radiation. There is some probability that a strand break can occur and not be repaired, and that can sometime lead to cancer. But the fact is that you can get cancer just from living and breathing (ie. your metabolism). It's not at all clear that any additional dose of radiation is necessarily dangerous. In fact, there is some evidence that radiation exposure activates protective mechanisms in cells to improve DNA repair - look up "radiation hormeisis". Your statement about no minimum damage threshold is not on a very firm scientific basis; it is an assumption made by regulatory agencies who are trying to be conservative, not a scientific fact.

      Dose/mortality rates used in setting health standards are based on extrapolation from survivors of Horoshima and Nagasaki. You have to understand that the doses and dose rates they received are 5-10 orders of magnitude greater than the rates you are likely to encounter walking around Chernobyl today. As any decent scientist will tell you, when you extrapolate a linear trend across that many orders of magnitude, you are basically just making shit up.

      Since there are trillions of neutrons per m3 in Chernobyl

      I call bullshit. That statement tells me that you are talking out your ass. There are NO neutrons anywhere except deep in the remainder of the core itself, where you still have fissile material. What you have in the surrounding area is alpha, beta and gamma radiation. Neutrons are produced by fission, and you don't have a trillion fissions/sec/m3 in the area. That would be producing something like 30 Watts per cubic meter; the place would be HOT, thermally. It isn't, so I doubt your number pretty strongly.

      According to her maps the dose rates were something like 80 micro-roentgen/hr. That's about 700 millirem/year. Natural background radiation levels are typically 300 milliorem/yr, but can be up to 15,000 millirem/year.

      there are different types of radiation and the type of radiation at Chernobyl is the really, really bad kind.

      How so? Becuase it is Communist? I THINK you mean that there is a lot of alpha-emitting dust around, which is indeed not good to breathe. But I think she pointed out that unless you went indoors, there wasn't actually much dust. That was 18 years ago - a lot of the material gets buried in that time, because it's not particularly biologically active (i.e. doesn't get incorporated into plants - there aren't many proteins with americium in the active sites). The stuff that does get incorporated, such as strontium (which displaces calcium), is not an alpha emitter. All this being said, I don't think you should be farming in the dead zone. But a few trips through on a motorbike is really no big deal.

      --
      Human genome = 3 billion base pairs = 6 GBit. Windows + Office = 20 Gbit. Which is more impressive?
  2. there're many 'Chernobyl's in this world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... but not all that is invisible and harms is radioactive. Heavy metals such as mercury, PCBs etc, can be seriously nasty. The sheer calous lack of regulation of these pollutants by governments world-wide is unbelievable. Even your fabric-softener can have mercury put in it.

    So while there is this collective phobia and aura surrounding radiation, there isn't around other many other toxic threats. Note the security surrounding nuclear materials, but how easy it was to obtain unbelievably toxic dimethylmercury (until someone killed herself when a droplette momentarily touched her protective glove) until recently.

    1. Re:there're many 'Chernobyl's in this world... by Justice8096 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I lived in Camden, New Jersey, we had problems with toxic waste. Dogs and cats were most susceptible - all of the animals we raised died of cancer. There were mutations amongst most of the wild animals, and birth defects amongst the people. It has died down by now - most of the dumping of waste stopped in the early 80's, when the dumpers got too scared of travelling into the ghetto to dump their waste.
      When my family got out of there about 5 years ago, the incidents of tumors and cancer had gone down significantly. I have my suspicions that some of the waste was dispersed by the birds that ate the contaminated animals and scattered their shit outside of the area - which is probably slowly happening over there too.

  3. Sad graffiti... by 0m3gaMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There's another site out there with pictures of the abandoned buildings. Something about it is incredibly compelling and sad; almost like looking at a modern-day Pompeii. People who were children back when this happened go back there and spray-paint messages to former classmates on the walls of their elementary schools, trying to contact them or just to say they're still still around.

    I also saw on a :60 Minutes segment a few years ago that the gov't pipes music into various parts of the city, where apparently there are still some people working--this is to keep them from going insane from the silence.

  4. What is the scale? by craenor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    She shows a nice map of the radiation levels, but without showing the scale it doesn't mean jack. She has the norm listed as 12-18.
    I am guessing that she means millirem per hour, but I honestly have no idea. Anyone know?

    1. Re:What is the scale? by Rorschach1 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Sounds about right. According to my detector here in California at about 200 feet elevation, I'm getting around 33 microroentgens per hour. I measured about 25% more than that up in the Sierras last summer due to the higher altitude.

      Of course, *I* wrote the firmware in this thing, so God only knows how accurate it is.

  5. Like the American southwest by BWJones · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This comment in the essay: This is highest building in town and in April 26-27, 1986 after reactor exploaded, people gathered on the roof of this building to watch a beautiful shining that rised above APP. They didn't know this was shining of radiation. they learned it on next day when evacuation began reminded me of talks I had with some of my patients some years ago that either lived in southern Utah and Nevada, or were in the military. Whole families would gather on high mountains to watch the pretty lights from the atomic bombs being tested in the open air and I had one old army guy tell me that soldiers who were gathered at the exercises, if they were not issued goggles, were told to look away and cover your eyes with your hands. When the bomb went off, you could actually see the bones in your hands from all the X-rays that were emitted from the bomb.

    Amazingly scary.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Like the American southwest by deglr6328 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "This is highest building in town and in April 26-27, 1986 after reactor exploaded, people gathered on the roof of this building to watch a beautiful shining that rised above APP. They didn't know this was shining of radiation."

      This makes me wonder exactly what those people saw. It obviously wouldn't be a bright flash like a nuclear bomb since it wasn't a nuclear explosion, it was a steam explosion with a tremendous amount of aerosolized radioisotope contamination. So it's a good bet that if this story is true they were actually looking at a blue glowing steam/dust cloud with the glow caused by CERENKOV RADIATION in the air!! To actually see Cerenkov radiation in the air would mean that the radiation in that initial rising cloud must have been unbelieveably intense, and they didn't even know the danger of the situation......horrifying.

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
    2. Re:Like the American southwest by Detritus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Earth's atmosphere is effectively opaque to x-rays. They are absorbed and the energy is reemitted at lower frequencies. This is what produces the fireball when a nuclear device is detonated in the Earth's atmosphere.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  6. Re:Gamma World by MarcQuadra · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think it would be fun to go there myself and check things out on my bicycle for a day. Unfortunately my Russian friends would all be too chickenshit to actually go with me.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  7. Facinating by MBCook · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The site is quite facinating. In a way Chernobyl is the largest time capsule in the world. Amazing to see that you could just go into homes and offices and see EXACTLY what life was like there in 1986. If it wasn't for the plants and animals and such, things would be almost completely identicle. It would be very cool if some archiologists could get some NASA space suits or something like that (to protect them from the radiation) to go in and photograph all those places and things.

    The MOST interesting thing in the article to me though was the "deafening silence" that is mentioned. The author said that many companies have investigaed doing things like 2 hour tours but the tourists complain and want to go home after 15 minutes because it's so quite it's like being deaf. I wouldn't think that it would be so bad (go to wheat feild in the middle of the US and it's silent too), but I guess it's the combination of all the buildings and normal city sights (with the exception of the fact that there are no people) and the silence that makes it so eerie and spooky.

    I bet it's spooky as hell there.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:Facinating by AmiNTT · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Not only is it a time capsule, it is a great chance to watch how nature reclaims the land and how the wildlife adapts - obviously all of the animals haven't died. I wonder if there are any scientists watching for radiation caused progressive mutations?

      I've been in a few places in Algonquin park that 75 years ago were there used to be towns, hotels and whatnot. If you aren't keeping your eyes open and looking for it, you will miss the signs.

      Now obviously, this isn't going to be the case here, but it will still be interesting to see what can be learned - for example, how are the roads holding up? With almost no wear and tear, the area could serve as an excellent testbed for environmental effects on road surfaces (hot and cold damage, etc).

    2. Re:Facinating by MBCook · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Birds and bugs. Good point. I guess I've just learned to tune them out after years of living here. When I first moved to the midwest I had a horrible time sleeping because of them. Now I almost never notice them (with the exception of those damn circadias or whatever they're called). The only sound I was thinking you'd be able to hear was the wind hitting the trees or grain, but in Chernobyl you'd hear the wind hitting the buildings and such.

      I guess your right. I guess most people have never really heard silence. What an odd thought. Next to no one has ever heard nothing.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    3. Re:Facinating by pyrosoft · · Score: 2, Interesting
      There are very few places in the world that are truly silent, but I could imagine that the Chernobyl area is one of them.
      Try the Sahara, too. No plants to move in the wind, no planes if you're away from air routes, no cars, no bugs, just sand, rock, and silence. And, unlike Chernobyl, no radiation.
      --
      Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstein
    4. Re:Facinating by jelle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Looks like this guy took that tour last year...

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  8. how did this find its way to Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now, i am happy that i was one of the few who got to see it (like others said, angelfire and slashdot? yeah, right) and I found it very very interesting.

    But i'd like someone to do some sort of anthropological study of how these little stories get noticed and submitted to slashdot and other blogs (is slashdot a blog? hmmm).

    I'm curious who found this story.. was it the author of the page? a friend, or a really interesting "other"...

    1. Re:how did this find its way to Slashdot by aenea · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was posted on a motorcycle forum. Next I saw it was on Metafilter. The version that's up now has been edited it a bit, she removed some of the more personal information.

  9. Silence.. by Jediman1138 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Very troubling to know that there is a city where silence alone can scare one away...Kind of funny how one can find total peace in the shadows of death, destruction, and the flaws of man. I, for one, would love to visit it..Apocalyptic visions are filling my head already..

    --

    nothing.can.stop.me.now

  10. Re:Great thing about driving through Chernobyl by MBCook · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Reminds me of the song "Three Mile Island" by Pinkard & Bowden. It talks about how at TMI baseball field during the night games... they turn the lights down. 'Cause the home team... glows in the dark.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  11. Favourite Quote by Dodger73 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "marauders in radiation poluted area are not just a regular marauders, they don't steal stuff for themselves. There were cases of radiactive tv sets and other stuff being sold on city second hand markets and then police shot 7 or 8 of them and it helped"

    Now, does that sound like the Soviet Russia from a bad movie, or what?

  12. Re:Gamma World by MBCook · · Score: 4, Interesting
    After reading you comment and thinking about it, it reminds me of that little short story. I can't remember quite what book it's in (it's in a book of fiction).

    It's about a little automated house with no one living there. It told about how it would make breakfast, and clean it up with little mechanical sweeper mice, and the house eventually burns down. The house is in a town that is empty because of a nuclear blast and the only "people" left there is a "shadow" of someone left on a wall from the nuclear blast. Interesting and sad story. The place was just as if everyone had suddenly vanished from the face of the Earth. Everything else was left.

    I want to say it was in "A Brave New World" but it could have been a H2G2 book.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  13. Bi Jesus Lives! by adb · · Score: 2, Interesting
  14. Eerie.... by Bytal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The pictures are just sooo eerie. The housing in the pictures is a perfect visual example of the kind of large apartment complexes built in the Soviet Union at that time. Large sprawling 16-24 story houses with balconies and nearby schools, playgrounds, stores and hospitals. She mentions how they were brand new, just waiting for families to move into them.(In the Soviet Union your housing was assigned to you btw). Just seeing pictures of those apartment complexes was the most horrifying part of this entire photo journal. Interestingly enough it also reminded me of a Russian book, "Picnic by the Roadside" by Strugatski Brothers and the it's movie adaptation by Tarkovski(same guy who made the original Solaris) called "Stalker." Same idea of traveling through a modern ghostown after a catastrophe. Incredibly eerie.

  15. Workers' Paradise by idiotnot · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The wonderful soclialist construction looks even better after eighteen years' passage. Sadly, it didn't look much different before the people left, save for being in better repair. No grandeur at all, just shabbiness.

    Eastern Europe has come an awful long way since the fall of the "Evil Empire." Why people still admire it, I will never know.

    1. Re:Workers' Paradise by ozborn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I know the reason for some, since I've talked to older people living in Eastern Europe and asked. Basically it boils down to working hard your whole life (some with nice professional jobs) and then watching your nice pension be destroyed by inflation in the transition to capitalism and your lifestyle plummet. Things really were materially better for them under the old system, although all of them are happy to see the political repression gone. The problem is that the same people in many cases that ran the country under communism and now doing so under capitalism. The more things change, the more they stay the same....

  16. An irony by rffmna · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Many people think the Chernobyl area is just like a desert. It's true, there are no people, but there ARE animals. Researches have found rats living there. When they tested those rats, which are living healthily, the scientists found that DNA of rats changed as fast as it had in last 20 million years. That's right, the radiation caused mutations (or evolution) in 20 years, at rate equal to 20 million years.
    The rats aren't mutilated or anything, they just happen to adapt.

    --
    -------
    FM Clan
    1. Re:An irony by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sounds about right..

      There's a bacteria that can live in high radiation places due to high redundancy of DNA. Those suckers have 5 copies of dna on 1 long strand, and can auto-correct incorrect bits. And multiple strands per cell.

      --
    2. Re:An irony by Idarubicin · · Score: 3, Interesting
      There's a bacteria that can live in high radiation places due to high redundancy of DNA.

      That bacteria would be Deinococcus radiodurans. Literally, 'strange berry that withstands radiation'. Its trick is actually several copies of important genes on different chromosomes, so that it can line up a good copy with a bad one and rapidly make the repair to damaged DNA. From this site:

      Among the many characteristics of D. radiodurans, a few of the most noteworthy include an extreme resistance to genotoxic chemicals, oxidative damage, high levels of ionizing and ultraviolet radiation, and dehydration. The ability to survive such extreme environments is attributed to D. radiodurans ability to repair damaged chromosomes. It is known that heat, dehydration and radiation causes double-strand breaks in chromosomal DNA. D. radiodurans will repair these chromosome fragments, usually within 12-24 hours, using a two-system process with the latter being the most crucial method. Initially, D. radiodurans use a process called single-strand annealing to reconnect some chromosome fragments. Next, D. radiodurans use a process known as homologous recombination, where a modified yet efficient RecA protein patches double-strand breaks. RecA protein works by cutting usable DNA from another molecule and inserting it into the damaged strand.

      However, these repair methods alone are not unique to D. radiodurans, which therefore cannot account for its radiation resistance. The aforementioned statement has led scientists to propose the "Life Saver" hypothesis. The hypothesis states, that in order to speed homologous recombination, D. radiodurans align copies of its genome so that identical DNA sequences are near each other. This proposal is now entirely possible due to the verification that D. radiodurans genes come packaged in four distinct circular chromosomes, thus giving stacked loops of DNA and resembling a Life Saver. To add to the list of radiation protective traits, D. radiodurans also possess carotenoid pigments, oxygen toxicity defense enzymes, and a distinctive outer membrane. First, carotenoids, which cause red pigmentation, are thought to act as free radical scavengers, thus increasing resistance to DNA damage by hydroxyl radicals. Next, high levels of enzymes such as superoxide dismutase and catalase both play a role in effective defense mechanisms against oxygen toxicity. Finally, a cell wall forming three or more layers with complex outer membrane lipids and a thick peptidoglycan layer containing the amino acid omithine also serves to protect D. radiodurans from lethal doses of radiation.

      The genome for D. radiodurans is available from TIGR.
      --
      ~Idarubicin
  17. Re:Gamma World by BeBoxer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's the weird thing about the place. It's considered basically uninhabitable by humans. Yet nature as a whole seems entirely unfazed by the radition and is thriving in the absence of humans.

    On the other hand, it really isn't that weird. The "nature preserve" aspect is only disturbing in relation to the empty roads and buildings. Without those features to provide the desolation aspect, nothing would seem amiss. Plus, nobody is keeping track of the average lifespan of those horses, which is almost certainly below average.

    Still, a fascinating photo-essay either way. And I think it's funny that her Kawasaki probably would have been worth as much as a whole town in that part of the world in 1985.

  18. Radioactive dust washes off roads in the rain... by adb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...and accumulates in the dirt near the roads, because the roads are smoother and higher than the surrounding ground.

  19. How to annoy a Jehovah's Witness with Chernobyl by Charles+Dodgeson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Jehovah's Witness and other sects which have as their central doctrine that we are in the "end times" and that John's hallucinations described in Revelations have already started. Anyway, these people have worked to fit 20th century events into the sequence of events outlined in the nightmare.

    Now, there's been a group in every generation since Jesus that has managed to find evidence that it is the generation of the apocolypse. So far, they have all been wrong, but that doesn't seem to bother contemporary apoclyptics.

    But they do have a clear idea of where we are in the sequence of events. As you can imagine most of the fitting of events is somewhat vague, or takes some generosity of interpertation. (Please bear with me, this is going somewhere). But there is something that is very late in the sequence (and lots of very dramatic things need to happen before it). This event is

    Revelation 8:10
    The third angel sounded, and a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters.

    Revelation 8:11
    The name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.

    And what is the Ukranian word for "wormwood"? Chernobyl.

    Somehow this news of the meaning of "Chernobyl" tends to disturb people who believe we are in the end times.

    --
    Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
    1. Re:How to annoy a Jehovah's Witness with Chernobyl by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ---The third angel sounded, and a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters.

      Great star from heaven while falling... Sounds like an ICBM or EMP-nuke

      ---The name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.

      Perhaps cherynobl-like disaster...

      Why, if you put those together, it sounds like good'ol Global Thermonuclear War. The estimate for that date is 2015 by the "Time Travler" John Titor (www.johntitor.com). He mentions some biblical-like strange event near that time.

      --
  20. Re:Quiet Town? by Saven+Marek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    On christmas day in my suburb there is almost no activity and usually cars are all taken inside. I don't know that it gets so quiet that I would freak and want to leave but it does have an especially eerie quality about it. Especially when in a formarly busy street I hear just the wind in the trees and maybe birds.

    The disparaty between what I see and what I hear & feel is an experience. I've stood in the middle of the road times like this and just looked around at the world. I'd like to visit Pripyat too

    nude macgirls webcam

  21. The scary part... by myov · · Score: 1, Interesting

    is that Chernobyl is still producing power on the electrical grid. This might have changed recently but I doubt it.

    --
    I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
  22. Wow. by mrseigen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This site is amazing; the town looks just like any other town anywhere else in the world, but nothing is there.

    The abandoned ferris wheel and barges gave me a serious case of the willies.

  23. Re:An anglefire site by OldManAndTheC++ · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If somebody were to give this unfortunate person Angelfire's highest "element plan", it would cost $15 for the setup and $14.95 for the first month, and give her 30 GB of monthly traffic. That might be enough to survive a slashdotting.

    You know, maybe that would be a good use for all that Slashdot subscription money: funding for a place to mirror sites like these...

    --
    Soylent Green is peoplicious!
  24. Death Toll by Rhett · · Score: 2, Interesting
    400.000 dead, other about half million. Dad says that those figures rised very high and so far death rate is 80.000-120.000 but it will be more because people will die within next 50-70 years


    Ok, so we know about 30 firefighters died within a few weeks of thea accident. Do people who died 88 years after the accident still count in the death toll?

    I have never heard figures above a few thousand before this. Maybe she is being accurate to 3 decimal places? Does anyone have a real source?
  25. Re:Gamma World by Dahamma · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree - the original /. article was half making fun of the language, but somehow it feel like if she had written it in Russian it would have had almost a weird sci-fi Dostoevskian quality... (how's that for a bad Russian stereotype!)

  26. And some of them happened on US soil... by Deffexor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hey. Let's not forget close-call that was "3 Mile Island" and another snafu here in the US: The SL-1 Accident in Idaho.

    1. Re:And some of them happened on US soil... by corngrower · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, not too many people know about this one. That must have been quite something for that worker to get impaled to the roof of the containment building with a control rod.

  27. Re:I've been to Ukraine... by BrainInAJar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Chernobyl Reactor 2 was shut down in 1991 after a fire, Reactor 1 was shut down in '96 to scam money out of the EU, and reactor 3 (the last one standing) was shut down permanantly in December of 2000.

    However, the cement structure encasing reactor 4 (the one that went boom) is starting to show signs of wear and about 10% of it is cracked.

    Scientific types are warning about structural failure happening sooner rather than later. The real issue here is repairing that, because when it comes tumbling down we're going to be in a world of trouble again... and what with the no-soviet union anymore, good luck convincing anyone to go to ground 0 and clean it up (rather than forcing them to do it at gunpoint.)

  28. What's even more scary... by Chordonblue · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is what's left behind there - a big crumbling concrete tomb no one seems to want to take responsibility for. Someone had better goddamn well do it or else EVERYONE will suffer again.

    There isn't a hole deep enough to bury this demon in. Chernobyl is the kind of thing that gives me real nightmares. Part of me wishes I never read that book. What a horrible, HORRIBLE disaster.

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
  29. Re:Radiation levels variations? by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Why is the level of radiation so dramatically different on roads?


    My guess would be that asphalt absorbs less radiation than dirt/dust/mud/plants do.... whenever it rains, more radioactivity is washed off of the road and onto the areas around the road.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  30. Euless, Texas 2001/09/12 by DAldredge · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds like Euless, Texas on the days after 9/11 when air traffic (DFW) was shut down. With no airtraffic and next to no vehicles on the roads it was very quite and very disturbing.

    1. Re:Euless, Texas 2001/09/12 by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That was certainly an eerie night. Here in the Bay Area, we have the Oakland, San Francisco and San Jose airports all nearby (and Sacramento isn't too far away).

      Go outside on any clear night and you'll easily see 20 airplanes, and will usually hear an airplane fly overhead several times per hour.

      On that night though, I couldn't sleep and went for a walk at 2am. There were no planes, few cars (Mostly cops, some fire engines), no celebrations, no music or loud conversations... just dead quiet.

      It was the first time I looked up at the bay area sky and saw only stars, except for a single radar plane which slowly travelled in a giant circle around the area for hours and hours.

      --
      "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
  31. Many more pictures here.... by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Here is a site with many more pictures of the military vehicle graveyard there.

  32. Thanks to the Swedes.. by olafo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As I recall, we have the Swedes to thank for 1st informing the world of the excessive radioactive fallout their detectors measured. It's a pity that even the reindeer in Lapland (northern Norway, Sweden & Finland) were affected as they ate grass which contained radioactive fallout. And the Lapps survive by eating reindeer.

  33. Russian Bike by n2505d · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seems you were programmed well during the duck and cover days. I own a Russian motorcycle here in the US (named same as the river on the rad map) and find it very tough and reliable.
    Don't believe all that you were fed, go there and hang out (not necessarily this place) and you will find some of our propaganda was true but a lot was/is not.

    Riding through there does seem tempting!!

    1. Re:Russian Bike by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If that is a Ural you're referencing, perhaps it runs ok because it's a clone of a 1930s era BMW?

    2. Re:Russian Bike by geekoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thats funny. Becasue my friends who are from the Soviet Union say that almost all of it is true.

      To hang out now would be pointless if you want to find out what it was like. The old will complain about how dirty it is now compared to 50 years ago, and the young have no real life experience.

      The one thing that surprised me was that they didn't consider the USA there number 1 threat. It was the Chinese. Now, that makes sence if you think about it, but since they were are number 1 threat, I assumed we were there's.

      Somday, one of those buildings will catch fire, and a lot of radation will become airborn.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Russian Bike by danila · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In Russia we used to joke that after Perestroyka we found out that most of what capitalist propaganda was saying about the Soviet Union was true. Unfortunately, we also found out that most of what Soviet propaganda was saying about the West was also true. :) But, joking aside, you make a good point. It seems that corporations/politicians were more scared of communism than USSR was scared of capitalism.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  34. Re:the playground is scary by Hard_Code · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you want to watch a good movie on the threat of vast radiation poisoning, watch the BBC movie Threads. I got this tip from another Slashdot post a while ago, and am passing it no. I had to go to my library to find it.

    It is about how the "threads" of society essentially unravel within a generation after a nuclear attack, in the face of massive homelessness, starvation and of course widespread and incurable radiation sickness.

    Lovely stuff.

    --

    It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
  35. Like Pompeii by dogfart · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Where a snapshot of life in the Roman Empire was captured in a momemt of disaster for posterity. With Pompeii, we wonder how foolish they were to see the obvious signs of the volcano ready to go, yet did not try to escape. With Chernobyl, we see...the same thing!

    --

    "dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"

  36. Creepy Amusement rides by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think the most poignant part was the abandoned amusement rides, and how she said that was the part of that town where the radiation doses were strongest. That Ferris wheel standing still and silent, still painted red and yellow, was just... wow. I have no words.

    --

    Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

  37. Re:Dangerous? by shadowbearer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    SuperBanana;

    The vernacular is/was (snirk) "leathers" and yeah, it's really smart to wear them - if you lay your bike down, a good set of leathers will keep you from losing skin (to a point, eh :)

    That said, it's part of the risk you take, not wearing them. Hell, riding a bike is what most, ehem, "sane" people would call a huge risk. It is. It's also a skill demo, to coin a phrase.

    For a lot of us, we call it just riding. It's not the kick of defying death, it's not the thrill of risking spending time in the hospital regenerating tissue (been there)...it's just knowing, like mountain climbers and many others, that there's a thin skin between you and death (or serious injury).

    It's for the freedom of doing what you want to do. It is what it is. One can't adequately describe it unless you've been there.

    I'm 37, yet I still take risks. It makes me feel alive. I climb vertical rock faces with no other equipment than my feet and hands. It's not the rush, it's the satisfaction of knowing you can do it - meeting the challenge.

    There is simply no way to explain that to people who haven't dreamed of or done it. It's like trying to talk to a different species. Not flaming you - it's just what it is.

    Argh! :)

    SB

    --
    It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  38. Another Ghost Town: Centralia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Reminds me of another ghost town I've seen (personally)... It's Centralia in Pennsylvania. You get near it where I80 meets Knobles or Route 61. (IIRC) - The story is that there was a giant waste fire burned in a open pit near a mine that ended up burning down hot enough/low enough to hit an exposed vein of coal under the mountains. The town has been burning ever since. It's not like a giant wildfire that you may first imagine, but a slowly moving, ever constantly burning coalfire underground.

    This fire started in 1961 and still burns today. Centralia no longer exists on some maps because it has been deserted (by most). Due to the underground fire, some portions of land is too hot to walk on or has simply been dried out/burned to a crisp from the heat below. I wish I still had pictures of what I was able to take (lost the pics in a HD crash.) - From a slightly higher viewpoint, you can literally see a band stretching across... sort of like a slow moving creature devouring everything in its path and turning it all charred black or seared white.

    One of the most interesting things I came across was scorched wood near an open vent: The steam coming up from the ground carried copper and baked it into the wood/bark. Lots of rocks were simply bleached white from the heat. I tried to be a dumbass and stood near an open vent to piss on the rocks... the heat was pretty damn intense. My shoes started melting (though I was standing a bit away from the vent) before I could finish urinating.

    A link. (I used some info to correct my faulty memory.)

    The Chernobyl Photo Journal is _stunning_.. I have considered going back to Centralia in the summer to do a more extensive photo documentation along the lines this young woman has. Beautiful work. First thought in my mind when I saw some of the pics was how desolate Centralia was as well... very erie and hard to describe if not for pictures.

  39. Re:Dangerous? ever wrecked? i have. by citmanual · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am an American who got a bike license in the Netherlands. I wrecked my 95 Honda VFR750 two years ago, nearly to the day, on the north side of Hilversum, NL.

    I was going about 45 mph, which isn't terribly quick, and things went awry. I was wearing a Clover textile jacket (hard armour, not unlike what the Ukraine girl was wearing with Kawa green). Triple stitched Carhartt jeans were covering my posterior.

    The hard armour and the jacket saved me from a broken arm. My leather gloves kept my hands clean, and the jeans split at the center seam.

    The results we a broken tailbone and a tiny bit of rash on my ace. I skidded over 25 ft and it's amazing what jeans will protect you from.

    I walked away. The bike was totaled, despite me riding it home. You'd be amazed at what it really takes to cause serious damage.

  40. Re:the "REAL" death toll and the real story by leob · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here is another real story:
    a PDF document about a town in Iran with a comparable level of the natural background radiation, and people live there quite happily (or as happily as one can live in Iran, for that matter).

  41. More Chernobyl Images by Devar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These were taken on a visit to the Chernobyl area by staff of the upcoming game "STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl" (based on the Chernobyl area)...

    I could not find the original hosted site, but I had it backed up so I uploaded it for everyone here. It is very haunting. Anyway, check it out:

    http://ii.net/~eenhoorn/s/Chernobyl/chern.html

    --
    It's a Bagel.
  42. Mayak by JoeBaldwin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Greenpeace released a similar site a while back about the Mayak plant. The Mayak plant released the same amount of radiation over 50 years than Chernobyl released at once, and it's totally fucked up the area. Minatom don't want to shut it down and they're still reprocessing fuel.

    Half Life: The Dangerous Effects Of Nuclear Waste

  43. My visit by kruczkowski · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I had the chance to visit the national museum in Kiev two years ago.

    It was truly amazing, I hope that they make a good movie about it becouse it seems that most people only learn about the world from movies.

    In the museum they had two newspapers, one a Soviet and an American the day after. On the American the disaster was on the main page as the headline. On the soviet it was on the 6th page in a little box in the cornner.

    Once the Soviets figured out the shit they were in - on the third day - they started to evacuate people. There was one film they showed of little kids playing, you could see bright flashes in the film. It was from radiation on the film. (Think airport xrays)

    Another film showed the clean up crew. Each soldier was given a gas mask and a iorn vest. Before the door the took a shot of vodkia and walked out - Each man would shovel for 30 seconds and then go home. Most died a few days later.

    On a side note my parents and brother meet some local people and they went out to a beach on the river (look at the map on that website). My father was just reciently diagnosses with tyroid cancer (in germany) a was not too happy so none of them swap just watched. Later my dad finds out that they were in the red-zone. Mind you there were a lot of kids playing in the water.

    For those who may not know - the nuclear plan was just recienty shut down ('98 i think). It had been in operation for quite some time (using the remaning reactors)

    --
    hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
  44. Extensive damage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here is a look at just how extensive the damage was.

  45. Re:Gamma World by Lord+Prox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    here ya go. Some info on the death toll. after reading that page I suggest your click around that site a little, it's a good read.
    Here is the authors bio for reference. He does know (unlike most /.ers) what is BS and what is not.

  46. Cyberpunk by carcosa30 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's something really cyberpunk about this, and not in the glitz-and-glamor Mondo2000 sort of way.

    I think it's the duality between the rusted-out poisonous landscape, the hot motorcycle, and the logo jacket.

    Very cool. Best /. article ever.

    --
    Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
  47. It's not just the Sierras, and it's not just you by Crash+Culligan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Urban archaeology doesn't have the following of some hobbies, like stamp-collecting or professional sports, but I can see its appeal.

    All constructions, like all people, have life cycles. They're built/conceived, people move in, they're lived-in, they have make-overs/get remodeled, they have mid-life crises/get remodeled tastelessly to hide the structure's growing problems, the spirit leaves/people move out, and get torn down.

    If the area is busy enough, there's no gap between moving out and tearing down. And if the area is really busy, there's no gap between the tearing down and the building up, the quest eternal for the Next Big Thing.

    Sometimes places die, and this interests people. Pripyat has the dubious distinction of actually being killed, and of course there's some interest in its slowly decaying municipal corpse. And there are other ways for a place to die suddenly too.

    Obligatory links:

    Come to think of it, there's a place not far from me, pretty much right in the middle of Annapolis, which I need to snap pictures of for posterity's sake. Sure, I'll be using a digital camera, but...

    --
    You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
  48. S.T.A.L.K.E.R Oblivion Lost by sunbeam60 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hmmm, how much do I want to play that game now. Are we sure this isn't a plant by Nvidia? :)

  49. try washington! by MacAndrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i live a few miles from national airport (and the pentagon), and our airport was closed for WEEKS, nearly closed forever had some in the white house had their druthers. some things you don't realize are there until they're gone, and you'd find yourself kind of waiting for the next jet. all we did hear was the flights of military jets, which normally pass over here at less than a thousand as they cut through over national from andrews, but now of course they sounded ten times as loud.

    just after the jet hit, i just remember hearing all the sirens, headed in the same direction. our fire department (arlington) was the first there, reportedly the engine was out on another call and saw what happened. (yeah, i wondered what happened to the other call,, too.)

    strange time here. then came the anthrax. then the snipers. yes, it did occur to me to wonder whether we should be here, but this is our home.

    i notice that most of the biker's pictures (including the one of her in a kawasaki jacket, the brand she mentions repeatedly? did they pay her for promo?) of how the chernobyl area has gone to hell focus on decrepit buildings. well, of course manmade stuff would fall apart; how's nature doing? and to be honest i find it humbling and a tad reassuring that man's creations will go away once man has left, let the earth move on.

    1. Re:try washington! by GoneGaryT · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Geezer, I'm cancelling a mod point here just to tell you that Kwacker riders are a breed apart.

      I was a Yammy man myself. I had a decently quick 750 at one time and used to get creamed by the Kwacker crew on a regular basis. Bastards.

      Respects to this crazy honey - she's got that heroic quality and a Mad Max landscape. Fantastic approach to living with a radioactive wasteland. "This is pompea last day sort of place." Shit, not half.

  50. STALKER game by S3D · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is a game in the production -STALKER about Chernobil zone. Designers of the game took a special trip into Chernobil zone, to take pictures and get a feeling of the zone. Pictures form their trip (don't mistake them for screenshots)used to be buried somethere on their site.

  51. Abandoned places by kurtkilgor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here are some of my bookmarks with photos of abandoned places . . . don't know how well any of them work:
    http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman /index. htm
    http://home2.planetinternet.be/henk/index.htm l
    http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/
    ht tp://www.forgottendetroit.com/
    http://www.forgott en-ny.com/
    http://www.acme.com/jef/photos/archaeo logy.html
    http://www.infiltration.org/
    http://ww w.starfury.demon.co.uk/uground/
    http://www.lostam erica.com/lostframe.html
    http://www.modern-ruins. com/
    http://www.losthighways.org/radebaugh.html
    http://detroityes.com/toc.htm#Gilded
    http://e.web ring.com/hub?ring=draining&list&page=1

    Regarding nuclear power, it is important to remember that uranium can run out just like fossil fuels, and in fact if we had started out using nuclear power instead of oil for energy, we would certainly have run out of nuclear fuel by now. In other words, nuclear power is not a solution except as a pollution free way to power a few dozen densely populated areas.

  52. Re:Gamma World by mesocyclone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would, actually. It would be quite interesting.

    I did an experiment one time... one you can't do since 9-11 probably. I took a digital geiger counter in an airliner. At about 10,000 feet it was close to off-scale.

    There's lots of radiation around.

    --

    The only good weather is bad weather.

  53. British Power by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Trouble is, what's the alternative to nuclear power for the UK?

    We've closed down most of the pits and are using North Sea gas to power the stations. How long is that going to last?

    Wind and solar would be great, but what I've heard about yields from both, the investment to replace our power requirements would be immense and completely blight the landscape of the country.

  54. Re:angelfire? by bug-eyed+monster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I haven't seen this mentioned here... This is what internet is really all about. It's not about major news sites displaying what they think people are interested in, or major retailers selling their usual wares, it's about individuals sharing their raw experiences and knowledge with everyone else in the world.

  55. Re:Much-hyped? I don't think so by nutznboltz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Silver Lining in Chernobyl's Cloud

    Published by the Sunday New York Times
    September 03, 2000

    The loudest protest over the closing of the nuclear plant is coming from a most unlikely place: the people who work there. What's a little radiation when it puts food on the table?

    By MATTHEW BRZEZINSKI

    There was a time when Leonid Aniskin was frightened of radiation. But that was before he went to work at the Chernobyl nuclear power station. He still remembers his first day on the job. It was in 1987, a little over a year after an explosion had ripped the roof off the plant's fourth reactor block. "The trees in the forest behind the station had all died," he recalls. "The pine needles had turned red and dropped off."

    Soldiers were burying the radioactive tree trunks when he arrived for his first shift. Everywhere he looked there were men in masks and dark rubber suits, and orange bulldozers scraping away the contaminated soil.

    The station's three undamaged reactors were all up and running by then, ordered back on line by Soviet central planners. While the world was still reeling from a disaster that spewed radiation over much of northern Europe and forced the evacuation of more than 100,000 people, the Kremlin was wrestling with a different issue: where to find workers willing to operate the stricken plant.

    Aniskin was 27 at the time, a champion marathon runner and a newly graduated acoustical engineer. He and his wife, Marina, had just celebrated their first wedding anniversary and the birth of their son, Igor. Like most young couples, they were living in a crowded dormitory near the Kiev airport while waiting for a state apartment in a soulless high-rise. In those days, newlyweds faced years if not decades of communal showers and public toilets before they were assigned their own place.

    There was a way, however, to bypass the waiting list. The Kremlin was building a new city 40 miles from Chernobyl -- just outside the depopulated Exclusion Zone -- a town unimaginably luxurious by Soviet standards. The nation's best builders had been harnessed for the showcase project, and construction crews from eight Soviet republics were working double-time to erect housing districts in the traditional styles of their lands.

    Brand-new apartments were to be had in this "model city," which the Kremlin christened Slavutich after the Russian word for glory, and jobs that paid 10 times the average national wage. All Aniskin had to do to win this Faustian Soviet sweepstakes was sign up to work at Chernobyl.

    "When Igor was born," he says, with the conviction of someone looking back on a difficult decision that came out right, "I decided to offer my family a chance at a better life."

    It is a warm and breezy Saturday morning in Slavutich. Mothers push baby strollers in the central parade ground, and children play near the memorials to posthumous Heroes of Soviet Labor. In the Riga district, plant bosses tend their flower gardens, while the six-foot-wide Geiger counter over the pediatric wing of the nearby hospital flashes a reassuring 15.4 microroentgens -- about the same as in Denver -- if you stick within city limits, where the contaminated soil has been removed.

    Leonid Aniskin has already run his daily 10 miles and is cooking breakfast for his family and me. The aroma of fish and fried potatoes fills the sunny second-story apartment and drifts into the living room, where Igor, now a tall and big-boned teenager, sits transfixed by a sumo wrestling match on ESPN's Eurosport. Aniskin brings out a pot of coffee and clamps his son in a good-natured headlock. "You don't want to become like them," he gibes in mock horror, pointing to the jiggling giants on the screen.

    "Papa is a little crazy when it comes to exercise," announces Igor, who has his father's earnest face to go with short, spiky hair. Aniskin takes the rejoinder in stride. His thick hair may have grown silvery around the edges these past 13 years and he may have lost a step or two,

  56. Environmental disaster cleanup ideas? by computer+ancestor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's curious whether there is any scientific/industrial research going on in this direction. Let's note, Chernobyl is not the only technological disaster area in the world. The world is full of leaking, diffusing, lying in the open and pretty deadly chemical and radioactive stuff.

    Practically every large city in North America and Europe has highly contaminted patches of land next to them due to the past or present industrial activities. Things can get very expensive when people finally figure out the reasons for soaring rates of cancer and other sicknesses.

    Is there a technological solution to the problem? Nanotechnology? Genetic engineering? You can imagine cesium gathering ants and mercury hungry bees. There was a report somewhere about generically modified bacteria successfully neutralizing toxic chemical substances. Perhaps some ideas could be sparked by the Ukrainian biker chronicles.