AT&T Wireless Phone "Upgrades" Aren't

An anonymous reader writes "AT&T Wireless is requiring customers in parts of California and New York and elsewhere to "upgrade" their phones and offering free replacements. The catch? In most cases the upgrades have worse features than the phones they're replacing."

Comments

No Bluetooth

[BWJones]

Yeah, there is no Bluetooth on the new phones which is proving to be quite a hassle. It is amazing how ones life becomes adapted to a technology like Bluetooth that truly works, and then to have AT&T Wireless simply say, "sorry, you have to upgrade" simply sucks.

Re:No Bluetooth

[ankit]

Wrong. ALL GSM phones use SIM cards. And since this upgrade is only for GSM phones operating at 1900MHz, all affected phones use SIM cards.

Re:No Bluetooth

[ankit]

Dude, all GSM phones need a SIM card to identify themselves to the network. There is no way a GSM phone can work without one. As another poster posted, there are probably very few (maybe just one or two) phones that have SIM cards non-replacable by the user. But even these phones do infact have sim cards!

Your friends probably use phones that work on CDMA/TDMA.

Re:No Bluetooth

[jlaxson]

RTFA. The phones being "upgraded" all use GSM in only one of AT&T's two GSM frequency bands. They want you to upgrade to phones that support both of the bands, for purposes of coverage. (if you can only use one of the bands, all the cell towers in the other band are off-limits to you.)

Re:No Bluetooth

[BWJones]

Lets see: Bluetooth headset for hands-free calling, Bluetooth for automatic hands-free talk within my Bluetooth supported car, Bluetooth for wirelessly synching my phone and Palmpilot with my G5s at work, and at home and my Powerbook when I travel.

Once you have used it, Bluetooth is hard to give up.

Re:No Bluetooth

[arivanov]

Place the blame on the correct group. You mean the FCC, right? After all it could have thought of a transition path that will move US to use the same frequencies as the rest of the world, but did not. I would not be amused if there was some Qualcom money behind this as well.

Re:No Bluetooth

[ankit]

Yes, I am in the US, and I continue to stick with what I said. SIM cards are a requirement for GSM, and this is the reason why you can eaily switch between providers and phone morels on GSM. Not so on TDMA (the old AT&T system that still has many, many subscribers), or CDMS (sprint).

Re:No Bluetooth

[EchoMirage]

Ok, you win. This has to be a terminology problem Let's reformulate: There is no GSM network in the US, because according to your specs they would have to provide SIMS, and none of them does. So those AT&T phones we're talking about are not GSMs. End of argument.

You're either incredibly foolish or a troll (my money is on the latter), but I'll reply anyway: YES there ARE GSM networks in the U.S.A. and YES every single one of them sells phones that require SIM (subscriber identity module) cards. As other posters who are actually clued in have noted, it's part of the GSM spec for a phone to have a SIM card.

There were two types of SIM cards: the original, old Type I cards, which looked like a credit card, and the newer Type II cards, which are the thumbnail-sized cards. You can see pretty pictures here. Type I cards haven't been used since the mid-90s. The last Type I-accepting phone I remember seeing was (IIRC) a GSM Motorola StarTac.

The only major GSM carrier in the U.S.A. until 3 or 4 years ago was Voicestream (Western Wireless), which became T-Mobile after the Deutsche Telekom buyout. As part of the upstart of 2.5G services here in the U.S., other companies such as AT&T and BellSouth started building up GSM networks.

You can see the "proof" that they're GSM networks by Googling for "BellSouth GSM" or "AT&T GSM." Other proof that there are GSM phones: I just took the battery off my Sony Ericsson T68i and...suprise! A GSM SIM card! Just like the ones I used to put in the back of every customer's phone back when I was a VoiceStream dealer. Just like the GSM SIM cards inside every single "next generation" AT&T phone, and every single T-Mobile phone. So forth and so on ad nauseum.

In related news, I've blacklisted you for making repeated stupid statements without taking 10 seconds to STFG.

Re:No Bluetooth

[squiggleslash]

SIMs are part of the GSM spec. Whereas CDMA and TDMA phones need the id programmed into the ROM, you cannot possibly have seen a GSM phone with such a thing.

I've had GSM phones from AT&T, BellSouth DCS, and T-Mobile, and all three had SIMs. You may possibly be confused because until recently AT&T didn't have a GSM network, it ran a TDMA (IS-136/D-AMPS/insert name of the day) network. Phones on that older, non-GSM, standard did not, obviously, use SIMs because they weren't GSM!

Re:No Bluetooth

[JiggsJedi]

I used to work for AT&T Wireless. ALL GSM phones require a SIM card (Contains your Home SID, ICCID, MDN aka your phone#). TDMA phones require no SIM as they have an EEPROM built-in to store the NAM - Numerically Assigned Module (containg Home SID, ESN, MDN).

One multi-band phone (that is TDMA/GSM capable) actually requires a special SIM card for the dual functionality. This SIM module contains the EEPROM equivalent for the TDMA programming of the phone separate from the GSM side of the SIM. This is the Sony T26U (it also utilizes Analog towers too). This a true GSM phone with a TDMA overlay. The Siemans S46 has a built in ROM and uses a SIM, this is a TDMA phone with a GSM overlay.

But all GSM phones require a SIM card, this is not only a spec for the GSM network, but if a GSM phone (assuming multi-band, ie. Siemans S46) is running without a SIM, it would only run in TDMA mode, and if not a multi-band, it would not complete its "power up" to an operational state; it would error and demand a SIM to be entered. The Sony T62U will not function without a SIM.

Most GSM phones are NOT multi-band. They would therefor require a SIM. Multi-band phones generally don't come with the "eye candy" that other phones do (ie. Cam, Colour, Blue Tooth). These are more for people who need a phone to be a phone all the time (best coverage over multiple networks) and not a toy.

For a little insight... Thanks to LNP or line number portability there is now an MIN/MDN combination within the HLR (Home Location Registry). The MDN is your Mobile Dialable Number but you also have a MIN which is the Mobile Identification Number (or Routing Number). Some of you AT&T customers may have seen on your TDMA phones you manually programmed a number into your phone that was not your wireless number. This is what allows the porting. People dial your "phone #" which goes to the company who owns your number range (from 0000-9999), who have that number cross referenced with the your current carrier. They then send your call to the carrier your are currently with and your carrier then address' your phone by an assigned routing number (and it is a number in a range they currently own!).

Example: You are with Sprint from 555-0000 and move to AT&T. Your phone is programmed with your ROUTING# 555-1234. You can place calls, but not receive them. Your old phone is still fully functional, so you can RECEIVE/PLACE calls there). AT&T initiates a port request to Sprint. They send Sprint a request with your Name/Addr/Cell#/Acct#/. Sprint setups the link in their systems to Switch/Forward your calls to AT&T. Once the link on Sprints end is completed that allows INCOMING calls to move from Sprint to AT&T and through their switches and to your cell phone via a cross reference to your assigned routing#. Your Sprint account is also closed at this point and your old phone stops working. But ALL your incoming calls go to the carrier who owns your number, and is then sent to your current carrier. This is transparent with GSM as all programming is done Over the Air.

If you have a routing number in your phone, and you call it; you will get someone else as routing numbers are actual phone numbers, but are internal only. All numbers are now used twice. Once as a link from phone to network (routing#, internal, dynamic), and once as a link between network and the world (dialable#, external, static). With the way this system works, they all started with your MIN==MDN, but when you change carriers and as more and more inter/intra-company ports are setup, your routing# will be given to someone else, and will most likely never be a match to your dialable# again.

Your phone# only goes as far as the company who owns it.

Just my 0.02. Jiggs

Mmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

I would say getting a phone that will be able to work is a pretty big upgrade.

"Free upgrades"

[KD5UZZ]

In my area AT&T wants me to update my (TDMA) phone to a GSM phone...and in the proccess I loose about 60% of my home coverage area. Sound good to you? I don't think so. I switched from SprintPCS to AT&T BECAUSE of AT&T's coverage. I fear the day my phone dies, maybe by then the GSM coverage will be better in my area.

Re:"Free upgrades"

[Neophytus]

i have a 3310

it has 3 main features
1) sends and recieves phone calls/texts
2) stores names of people whom i contact using feature 1
3) game of snake for when i'm not using 1) or 2) and am bored

Re:"Free upgrades"

[NDeans]

WRONG! There are three phones currently available that have BOTH GSM and TDMA! Actually two of them even include analog AMPS. They are: The Sony-Ericsson T62u - GSM 850/1900 w/GPRS TDMA 800/1900 AMPS 800 The Nokia 6340i - GSM 850/1900 TDMA 800/1900 AMPS 800 and The Siemens S46 - GSM 900/1900 w/GRPS TDMA 800/1900 So yes, there are ways to have your cake and eat it too, with GSM and TDMA. These phones are known as GAIT phones, and will give you the best coverage possible. Currently AT&T Wireless only sells the SOny t62u and the Siemens s46. Cingular sells the 6340i. If there are any more questions feel free to ask.

Re:"Free upgrades"

[doormat]

TDMA = Time Division Multiple Access

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/T/TDMA.html

Re:"Free upgrades"

[EchoMirage]

Why can't AT&T offer you a GSM phone that falls back to TDMA (whatever that is?).

They do. The Siemens S46. Great phones! Major travellers carry them (the editor of a major magazine's international bureau, for one example that I know off the top of my head).

BTW To pick nits, GSM doesn't fall back to TDMA. GSM is a TDMA-based network. TDMA is an architecture, and GSM is a specification.

My favourite AT&T Phone feature

[hendersj]

Is the one where it disconnects randomly in supposedly good-coverage areas.

No Camera!?

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG! They want me to use a phone with no camera! How can that be? How does a phone even work if it doesn't have a camera? Next thing they'll want me to buy a refrigerator with no DSL or a car with no DVD player!

Re:No Camera!?

[GeorgeH]

For anyone who thinks that camera phones are useless, my anectdote is being able to email pictures of my car's accident to my insurance agent while still at the scene of the accident. She then changed her mind and decided that I really couldn't drive a car with that front end and they sent a tow truck.

so where is the catch???

[stonebeat.org]

The catch? In most cases the upgrades have worse features than the phones they're replacing."

That is no catch. Heck some software vendors force you to upgrade, force you to pay for the upgrade, and upgrades have worse features than the original software. ;)

Free replace?

[Maljin Jolt]

I think all you customers should pay some money for those downgrades. Replacing process surely have some administrative costs, taken from pockets of poor shareholders.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery.

[JessLeah]

Downgrades are upgrades.

(On a more serious note-- hey, if Microsoft can define 'repackaging old Apple, Xerox and Unix tech for the masses' as 'innovation', then sure, a downgrade can be an 'upgrade'. Businesses lying is nothing new.)

This happened to me

[GeorgeH]

I'm in Ann Arbor Michigan and had AT&T service with my T68i. Last year I had problems with dropped calls and my service meter would go from 5 bars to 0 when I would try to make a call. I got my handset replaced twice and it seemed to more or less alleviate the problem. This winter things got worse and worse.

Finally I got fed up and switched to T-Mobile. I got a nice phone for $0, and get unlimited wireless web usage for $10/mo (which got me 4 megs on AT&T). Getting my number transfered from AT&T to the new account took an 11 minute phone call and 6 hours to process.

Most importantly my calls aren't having the same problems, and I can actually use my phone again.

The irony is that between the time I called to switch my number and the time that the number switched I got an SMS saying that they were sending me a new (bluetoothless, underfeatured) phone for free. Now I'll have two to put up on eBay :)

Not so bad

[PtM2300]

AT&T is attempting to do good with this. I believe the "upgrade" phones run at 850mhz, providing better service to the areas the "upgrades" are offered. They're trying to offer better service to their customers without losing a lot of money on giving away expensive phones.

I like the car DVD with windshield projection

[AtariAmarok]

I like the car DVD system that includes the windshield video projector, so I can watch movies like "Along Came Polly" while driving. It sure beats anything I'd see on the road in front of me.

Great

[Realistic_Dragon]

Shame the feature they remove is the Bluetooth and the serial connection, rather than the phone, sucky non-regular keypad or the colour screen.

I'm sticking with my 6310i until it dies, then I'll buy another one off eBay.

This doesn't sound like a bad thing

[jovian_]

According to the article, "The now obsolete phones will still work on the AT&T network, howeverthey will continue to have poor reception. Use them at your own risk."

So you can still keep your old phone, and it'll still work as it has in the past -- somewhat poorly, but not differently. Or, AT&T is offering free replacement phones that have improved reception but may not have all the features of your old phone. I don't see the problem here. If you want to stick with what you have, nothing is stopping you. AT&T is giving you a choice, which is more than most companies would do.

Just my two cents.

Who's laughing now?

[Anonymous Coward]

They all laughed at my refusal to join the club and my incredibly long cords, but I'll be proven right in the end. I'm staying in control of my phone destiny.

0xdeadbeef

[mrsam]

Up until November of last year me and my SO were att wireless subscribers. It was rather obvious that at&t wireless service couldn't really get any worse than it already was. Phone call quality always sucked unless the signal strength is at least at the halfway mark. That is if you were lucky to be in an area with any reception whatsoever. Their local calling areas were piss poor, and we got hit with roaming charges every month.

As soon as number portability kicked in, we bailed out for t-mobile GSM. The difference was like night and day. at&t wireless showed no signal in my home. The new phones (free t610 camera phones, by the way, with bluetooth, infrared, etc...) now show a good signal. No roaming charges, the call quality is now much better, and there are hardly any dropouts even if the phone shows only a single blip on the signal strength meter.

When I called to cancel at&t they lamely offered an upgrade to gsm. No thanks. Even if gsm is supposedly a better technology, I'm sure that at&t would find a way to screw it up, somehow.

Cingular wants to swallow up at&t? I hope they choke.

So? And Request for Opinions on AT&T Wireless

[MBCook]

On topic, DUH. They aren't saying you HAVE to switch, they are just strongly suggesting it because it will improve your reception. And you forked out all that extra cash for a smart phone, you should be prepared to do it again. If AT&T was going to disable your phone, then it would be reasonable to make them replace it with the same thing. But as it is they are just offering you one of their standard phones free. If you still want all those extra features, you can pay again.

It's not extra nice, but it makes perfect sense to me. I don't think you can really falt AT&T for this. Sorry.

The OT part: I am seroiusly thinking about switching carries for my phone (I don't care about my current number, so that hassle doesn't factor in), and I'm seriously looking at AT&T. I was thinking of getting a Sony-Ericsson T610 (or T616, whatever they want to sell me) for it's bluetooth and java (and looks).

Is AT&T a very nice provider? How hard is it to use a bluetooth phone as a modem (you know, connect to the internet through it)? Where can I find directions on that?

But overall, how are people's expiriances with it?

PS: I'm in eastern Kansas if you know what the reception is like there

Scam

[zachlipton]

ATT Wireless is really running a scam with this "upgrade" arrangement. See this post for more information. The real catch is that to get the "free" phone, you have to sign a new contract with them. Worse yet, it's not just a new contract, it's a two year contract (basically forever as far as I am concerned). The free phones they offer are of course pretty terrible (far more annoying than the free phone I got from them getting their service in the first place) and more importantly, their network is practically useless in many places unless you upgrade (since they rolled out the upgrade, I've had no service (GSM) throughout much of San Francisco). I would even be willing to just purchase a new cell phone, but they have made it impossible to purchase a phone at retail without a contract, and it would cost way too much (price gouging to force people to sign a contract basically).

I'm currently shopping around for a new provider, though the crazy set of plans and prices that all the firms offer makes it impossible to compare plans or even figure out how much the service will cost.

Got one.. and returned in less than a day!

[JGski]

Their update concept is very good concept, if and only if what you're offering for the upgrade is any good.

Where does one begin?

1. Current T68 is curvy, stylish and ergonomic in the hand, upgrade T226 phone is an ugly box, light and cheap feeling
2. Only apparent "new feature": MMS - major yawn for anyone over the age of, I don't know, 14 years of age? On top of that doing anything with MMS deathly slow and cumbersome to use. As usually for tech marketing - forgot to ask customer what they actually wanted - this wasn't it!
3. Oh yeah, polyphonic ring tones, too. BFD!
4. More crap crammed into a too small space: joystick is usable on the T68; new phone it's nearly impossible to use. Just too small, and no actual "joystick", just 5 button placed inconveniently close in a cross.
5. T68 keypad numbers are well illuminated for dialing in the dark; on the T226 they are utterly illegibly dim
6. The screen seems to be a bit bigger on the T226 phone, but is actually worse readability than the T68 - presumably lower resolution.
7. No bluetooth - from one of companies that invented no less; current T68 has bluetooth (complete with alternating, if silly, activity lights - online & bluetooth - it's inane but strangely comforting)
8. Did mention the T226 is just d*mn ugly! It looks and feels like something you'd get out of a Crackjack box

Tried the phone for a couple of hours and just gave up on it. Sent it back. Thankfully you can switch the SIM card back to the old phone so easily. If you have a T68, you are stepping way down with this phone! BMW to Yugo. You're a fool if you keep it. And now, of course, it'll be a case of once bitten, twice shy if they try it again.

I don't know who to blame more: AT&T or Sony-Ericson. For AT&T, this will go down as one the stupidest tech marketing blunders in a while! For Sony-Ericson, well, the engineering team that designed the T226 should be taken out and shot. At the very least they should barred from designing any consumer electronic product - for life!

When the T68 came out I thought maybe Ericson might finally have figured out what Nokia does right - with this phone it's apparent the T68 was just a lucky, but utterly random accident. :-p

Re:Almost switched to AT&T a little bit ago

[SharpFang]

Can you imagine you land line provider telling you that you would have to pay extra for using your line for a modem instead of voice?
Actually, I can. TPSA Poland, installing special dampeners on their lines to prevent people from using modems faster than 12Kbps, so they could rip them off with their own Internet packages (ADSL) instead of using the lines to connect to cheaper ISPs.

Also in Portland Oregon

[Sloth503]

I got the letter on Friday from ATTWS, saying that they were sending me a new phone. They are supposedly providing return shipping for the old phone but the letter didn't say anything about HAVING to return the old phone to get the new phone. I'll be interested in reading the fine print when the new phone shows up but I'm not worried. I have no interest in downgrading from my T68i to this lesser phone, and I have no interest in returning either my old phone or the new one they are sending to me. More information can be found at: http://sonyericssont226upgrade.com/

Now, some background information on the return issue - I used to manage the returns department for a dotcom and thus I was supposed to know a bit about returns issues. I cannot name the specific regulation by name, but the FTC says that if a merchant sends you a product that you didn't order, it is your's for free. They can ask for you to pay for it, they can ask for you to return it, they can call you bad names for keeping it, but they cannot require you to return it nor can they require you to pay for it. Keep this in mind for this new phone and any future boxes that end up at your door step. Now, since we are all ATTWS subscribers and signed some contract when we got our service, they might actually be able to force us to return the new phones or pay for them, but I'm not sure.

Now here's the part about the whole deal that makes me worried. Why are they sending new phones for free to people? Why aren't they just letting us keep our outdated phones and stop selling them, and start selling the new phones? What is the benefit of sending me a new phone and asking for me to return my old phone? At first I thought they wanted to give me a new phone with more features so that I'd send more SSM messages, or download ringtones, or do something else that would generate more revenue for ATTWS, but I don't think that is the case, if it was I think they would have given out even cooler phones. Frankly I cannot use a phone without Bluetooth, I just cannot, if the new phone had all the features of my old phone and some bonuses it would be a different story but... ATTWS is doing something it doesn't have to. They are giving out free phones when they don't have to. It doesn't make any sense, they should just stop selling the old phones. I think there is more to the story unfortunately, and I think that the end effect is that sooner or later my old phone will no longer work with ATTWS.

Will someone please file a class action lawsuit. I'm already ready to sign up.

Low Feature Phones.

[triso]

I cannot believe AT&T are giving out simple phones. Where did they find them? All I ever see is Bluetooth, virtual laser keyboards, SMS, digital video, WiFi, 3G, a 3D video processor and flash memory.

Sales Droid: So Maam, this is our most fully-featured phone ...

Me: That's great but all I want to do is make phone calls.

Droid: Sorry! That feature was depricated last year.

Me: What! Oh well.

Not as good as the old

[Prof. Pi]

I believe the "upgrade" phones run at 850mhz, providing better service to the areas the "upgrades" are offered.

The old phones ran at 1900mhz. So the new phones are, what, like less than half as good as the old ones?

Re:Seen this

[Zeppelingb]

and I can surf the web with my laptop while I'm driving

So you're the guy who almost hit me today!

Re:All I want to do is make phone calls....

[TeddyR]

I asked the same questions a short while back on a different cell phone related slashdot article, and mkop kindly pointed me to this site....

I had the same problem with sprint

[Tikiman]

I had a nice, top of the line Nokia - a couple years later, calls would randomly disconnect. I used equipment replacement twice and get back the same model. Finally they tell me my phone is no longer compatible with their network! I asked to be transfered to the guy who could close my account, since my phone was entirely useless. Instead they transferred me to the guy who sent me a new phone, which did turn out to be a marginal upgrade due to two years of advancement in the technology. Eventually they even gave me a nice credit on my account for the months my phone was useless. However, I had to threaten to terminate my account before getting any results.

Re:No Bluetooth-Lost and Found.

[Mindtoy]

Actually, on T-Mobile after you've had the phone for a while you can send an email requesting the unlock code to SIMUnlock@T-Mobile.com I had no problems getting my Nokia 3390 unlock code from them.