Pop Up Ads in Space

modder writes "A Russian inventor has patented ads in space. Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?" Remember the first time your dad took you out at 1am into the backyard with a telescope? With Your kids the conversation will be something like "Follow the Swoosh to Arcturus, Drive a Spike to the AT&T Logo"

Comments

When will it stop?

[grub]

Wait for the first "Want your willie to be THIS BIG??" spam stretching for hundreds of kilometers across the horizon.

Jokes aside, why do people put up with intrusive advertising as a given? How much of your money spent on a 1 litre soft drink goes directly towards advertising the product back to you? I read some time ago that "big 3" North American automakers spend approximately US$1500 (averaged) on advertising for each vehicle sold.

Ultimately you foot the bill & suffer with the barrage of adverts, they reap the sales & expense write offs.

Re:When will it stop?

[stratjakt]

Most of those "advertising" dollars are spent sponsoring things like sporting events, theatre, live concerts, etc..

Almost every major venue has a corporate sponsor these days. Staples Arena, 1st Mariner Arena, Air Canada Center, Ford Center for the Performing Arts, etc.. Because, by themselves, these arena's arent profitable.

Noone could afford to race Nascar if not for those company decals plastered all over the cars.

So the big corporations write it off as marketing dollars, we get our big stadiums and events.. They also pay for our free-to-air TV and radio (which is a relatively small amount of their advertising budgets).

Re:When will it stop?

[isorox]

Fine, start a company that doesn't advertise. You'll be able to sell your product much cheaper.

Re:When will it stop?

[micromoog]

how the #$%! do we avoid it and not end up in a mountain cabin being a recluse?

With this story's new development, being a mountain cabin recluse still isn't enough. You've gotta live in a cave.

Re:When will it stop?

[enosys]

And why should I be forced to pay for stuff I don't want? I don't care about free-to-air TV and most radio, I don't care about Nascar, and I don't care about most professional sports. It's almost like a tax, except it's imposed by corporations and not the government.

Re:When will it stop?

[Xawen]

With the notable exception that you can opt-out of this so called "tax" by simply not purchasing the product. I'd like to see you try that with a real tax. The advertising, the events, and the additional cost are more like by-products. As with anything else, if you are opposed to the by-product, you cease use of whatever creates it.

Re:When will it stop?

[Baron_Yam]

And Osama gets the last laugh after all...

Re:When will it stop?

[ThosLives]

This is the same difficult issue as "Why should I pay taxes? Why should I pay insurance when I've never needed to use it? Why should I pay an 'activity fee' at my university when I don't use most of the activities for which it goes?"

It's kind of a collective effect thing, where some would argue that everyone paying a little bit benefits society as a whole even if there are some individuals who don't "get" anything for their expense. It's more an argument, I think, of selfish versus collective thinking. Granted, this is decidedly UnAmerican(TM).

That said, of course, the idea of ads in space (where I have no choice to not see them!) or "McDonald's on the moon" makes me want to vomit.

Re:When will it stop?

[enosys]

You can't always opt-out of advertising. There may be good reasons why you want to buy a particular product and not a competing one. In some cases you can't even find an unadvertised competing product.

Of course you can opt-out by not buying but that's not really a solution if you want it, and BTW you can "opt-out" of sales tax the same way (by not buying stuff).

Re:When will it stop?

[Fnkmaster]

Right, and you'll surely sell a whole lot of them. Unfortunately, my experience with consumer products is that it takes a combination of word-of-mouth endorsement and advertising to get a product in front of people. And some products, by their nature, are more likely to benefit from pure word-of-mouth. Nonetheless, the fact is that people don't buy stuff they don't know about and that will continue to drive the market for new and creative ways to advertise products.

That being said, I think these kinds of terribly intrusive public ads are so clearly not a public good that they should be banned outright. It pretty much goes without saying that putting an ad in space is like turning the Grand Canyon into a massive ad, only about a million times worse. Communities should be able to set standards about things like public billboards. In the same way that a community doesn't want their public parks and nature reserves crapped up with ads, none of us want space crapped up with ads.

Re:When will it stop?

[nolife]

Noone could afford to race Nascar if not for those company decals plastered all over the cars.

I love auto racing and I love watching auto racing but I am not into circle driving and not a fan or follower of Nascar at all so my below opinion may not matter to you.
You are right, Nascar would not be where it is today without mega advertising dollars but you would still be able to visit a local dirt track / closed road race / motocross and see very good competition and good racing. You may not know the names but the side by side racing is exactly the same intensity but normally at lower relative speeds then Nascar and the local racing seems less predictable which adds fun also. Same agrument with the RIAA vs. independent musicians performing locally.

Re:When will it stop?

[Logic Bomb]

I'm pretty sure your comment was meant sarcastically, but haven't you ever heard of generic versions? Go to a supermarket, any supermarket, but especially one that's not in the wealthiest part of town. Find a brand-name product like Oreos or Fruit Loops or Tylenol or anything else lots of people know about and purchase. How many alternative versions are on the shelf, for a little bit cheaper? You probably don't recognize the names of any of those other manufacturers. Yet the stuff sells fine.

Re:When will it stop?

[DoorFrame]

I love my No-Ad suntan lotion. It's cheaper, you get a huge bottle, it doesn't smell weird, and it works great.

"Since 1960, NO-AD, as in "not advertised," has succeeded in providing high quality suncare products at a fraction of the cost of other advertised brands. Rather than promoting the NO-AD line of products through expensive advertising campaigns or glitzy beauty pageants, we'd rather pass the savings directly onto you, our valued customer. This is what we call ~ "the NO-AD concept" -from their site

Re:When will it stop?

[wash23]

Everything is advertised. Opting out isn't feasible, unless we collectively decide to go Kaczinski (Unabomber). No thanks. But it would be nice if we'd mostly agree to refuse to let people advertise on every available surface, or at least draw the line at the night sky!

Re:When will it stop?

[sjames]

The problem isn't so much the ads, it's the intrusiveness of advertisers.

For example, ads in malls are fine by me. The mall is a place specifically built for commerce, so it's to be expected. The Radio provides programming in return for the listener accepting ads. For me, it's not a worthwhile trade, so I don't bother with the radio.

Billboards should be restricted to developed commercial/industrial zones. Billboards along a highway shouldn't be.

As a side note, I do not buy clothes with big logos and designer names on them. I prefer unmarked clothes, but will accept those with an easily removed lable.

Telephone solicitation and spam are right out. The national do-not-call list was IMHO an excellent step in the right direction, I just wish it had happened 10 years ago.

Re:When will it stop?

[kfg]

I've just been through my kitchen. There is not one advertised food item in it. Not one.

With the exception of my Sharp Microwave (acquired used) none of its major fittings are advertised either. I have some Calphalon, bought at discount, and some Pyrex(tm).

Ok, looking through my clothes closet, my shoes are advertised, but I decided to buy them in the store previously unaware that the brand existed. They looked nice. They felt good. They were on sale.

My furniture. All used/antique, or handmade. No Ikea, Sullivan or other modern advertised crap products.

My TV's a Sony. Heavily advertised. Didn't affect my purchase much though. It was a nice TV. On sale.

All of my computer gear was selected by word of mouth recommendations, with the single exception of my Cambridge Soundworks speakers. I bought those strictly on the reputation of the maker. I've had a pair of Kloss's AR-4 speakers for God knows how long. Love 'em. Bought his new stuff. Love it. I did have to pay an advertising "tax" on some of it though, since decent computer gear is still pretty much all patented nongeneric stuff. I tend to buy behind the cycle at closeout prices though, often at well below manufacturers original cost of production.

Oh yeah. I run Linux.

Commercial computer games I don't buy until someone I trust tells me it's worth the price, and even then usually wait until it gets down to the twenty buck rack.

I have found exactly two items in my house that are not only advertised, but where that advertising had any affect on my purchasing. The first is my Serengeti Drivers sunglasses. It was highly targeted advertising, by a local manufacturer (Corning Glass) and my Coulter Optical 10" Newtonian primary was selected entirely on the basis of advertising, also, and obviously, a highly targeted bit of advertising. Not exactly your typical consumer good.

One the whole it's perfectly easy to buy unadvertised goods where those goods are generic, like lentils, peas, pants and furnishings (or simply produce your own), and to purchase those goods which are, by necessity advertised (CPUs) at below cost and avoid the advertising "tax." Maybe it helps if you were raised a Scot or a Yankee.

In the latter case, I have to admit, I'm letting other people pay the tax for me.

Thanks guys. 'preciate it.

KFG

Re:When will it stop?

[robertjw]

How is the mail specifically built for commerce??? I believe the mail was specifically built for communication, much like the Internet is now. I don't expect advertising in my mail any more than I expect it on my phone or email.

I'm thinking Ben Franklin didn't send a lot of boxholders or mail marked occupant when he started the USPS way back when.

Billboards on the other hand, in many parts of the country, break up incredibly BORING scenery (I-80 through Nebraska, South Dakota, Wyoming, etc...). I think they could be restricted to so many per mile with no billboards in areas designated as scenic.

Re:When will it stop?

[WorkEmail]

I remember a story similar to this, and I may have even read it here on /. but I am not sure. About Butterflies wings being colored to look like company logos. Genetics breakthroughs are being used to do productive things at least. Can you imagine going to the zoo and seeing a huge grizly bear that has red fur and a coca cola logo on the side of it?

I may be missing the legal point.

[GMontag]

Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?

Not that I can see, but the search feature was broken when I looked. I did browse around and find this:

The treaties control space-related activities of States. What about non-governmental entities active in outer space, like companies and even individuals?

The Outer Space Treaty states that States Parties shall bear international responsibility for national activities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, whether such activities are carried out by governmental agencies or non-governmental entities, and for assuring that national activities are carried out in conformity with the provisions set forth in the treaty. The Treaty further states that the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party.

Seems to refute the assertion, until other information can be found.

Even if it were some sort of violation of International Space Law, why would a patent violate that? Describing and protecting a method should not be a violation of a law, actually doing it should be a violation of the law.

Note: the views of some storm-troopers may differ from mine :)

Re:I may be missing the legal point.

[PMuse]

Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?

Whether launching one would violate any law or not, the existence of this patent is a good thing. Why, you ask? Because the patent (1) allows him to prevent other people from launching one and (2) doesn't give him any license to launch one himself.

Patents are a right to exclude others, not a right for you to practice.

Re:I may be missing the legal point.

[Texas Rose on Lava L]

This brings up an interesting question -- can you get a patent for a device/process that's clearly illegal under federal law?

For example, say someone applied for a patent on a method for manufacturing crack cocaine. Does submitting the application constitute a violation of the law in and of itself, or would the application simply be denied? Or, would it be granted? If it was granted, could the patent holder sue drug dealers for patent infringement?

Obviously, I don't advise trying this, because no matter what else happens, some DEA agents would surely "invite" themselves over to your house for a visit if you did... I'm just wondering how the patent office would handle this.

No, I don't think so...

[HarveyBirdman]

To paraphrase Lois Lane, I will *personally* lead the army that wipes space ads out of the sky.

Re:No, I don't think so...

[mcharlet]

While I agree with you in principle (anyone selling anti-satellite rockets, perchance?) I'd just suggest this: When the first company to take 'advantage' of this advertising strategy announces that they will do so, write them a very polite letter telling them that you will boycott every product they ever produce from now until the cold bitter end if they actually proceed. Tell them that you will then spend sizeable effort convincing friends, neighbours, your children's schoolmates, etc... to forever blacklist that company. Tell them that websites, protests, bad press and tv spots of little children looking up at the sky and saying "Why is pizza hut making it hard to use my christmas present telescope, daddy?" will be forthcoming. Granted, it'll probably take someone to actually do it, and then see massive loss in business before other companies really take notice.

Re:No, I don't think so...

[TurboDog99]

I agree with you on this one. If a company were to go ahead with polluting the sky with this garbage, I don't think they could ever do enough to convince me to buy from them again. At least with banner ads and TV ads, we're getting a service in exchange for viewing the ads, and we can opt-out by not going to those Internet sites or TV channels.

Prior Art

[G4from128k]

I think Pizza Hut has some prior art from 1999 on this one unless that Russian was behind the deal.

Re:Prior Art

[LostCluster]

This is a very different device being claimed here, one that can project light down to earth, not just painting something on a rocket.

They've Come A Long Way

[Naked Chef]

From communism to advertisements in space :) Still a sad commentary on capitalism and society, when not even space is safe from advertisers.

Careful Now.

[Anonymous Coward]

One foul up and we could all end up being told to "go stick your head in a pig"

Prior Art?

[Jaywalk]

Can't Chairface Chippendale claim prior art on space ads?

Re:Prior Art?

[Analogy Man]

I think there is "prior art on this ". I recall some flak with McDonalsd or someone like that looking to shine a golden arches up there somehow several years back.

Just a concept

[IamGarageGuy 2]

Let's not get all worked up yet, it's just an idea some wacky russian had.

Re:Just a concept

[happyfrogcow]

your usage of the word racist is incorrect. 'prejudice', 'regionalist', etc.. but not racist. so don't play the racist card.

As if there weren't already enough evidence...

[Denyer]

...that Matt Groening was a prophet. *shakes head sadly*

I wonder to what extent the patent is attributable to the numerous examples of this kind of behaviour in traditional science-fiction and popular media such as Futurama?

Re:As if there weren't already enough evidence...

[adamscottphotos]

Sorry, Philip K. Dick got this one decades ago (Sales Pitch, 1954). I'm always suprised at the lack of sci-fi exploration out of the 'top 5', even by slashdot readers.

Correction

[Operating Thetan]

He hasn't patented the idea of adverts in space, as the precis suggests, he's patented a device for displaying them. A fairly important distinction

Re:Correction

[scrytch]

> He hasn't patented the idea of adverts in space, as the precis suggests, he's patented a device for displaying them. A fairly important distinction

Not really. Patents of this kind are granted to a description of an actual device, not an idea. One doesn't actually need to produce the device itself, and indeed some people have managed to sneak some ridiculous ideas through, including a few faster-than-light communication device patents and probably a perpetual motion machine or two (the patent office is normally quite good however at rejecting any 100% efficient or over-unity machine)

Little Dipper...

[NemosomeN]

By Pampered Chef, only $19.99.

A giant DLP monitor?

[Phoenix-kun]

The article says it would use solar reflectors mounted on satellites to create the messages. In other words, each reflector could be considered a pixel in the display. I suppose it could work sort of like a giant DLP monitor. Now we just need a giant color wheel that could double as a space station.

Re:A giant DLP monitor?

[Turing Machine]

Imagine the rainbow effect you'd get if the refresh rate wasn't high enough; launch a new ad campaign, and half the planet calls in sick with a blinding headache.

Heh.

Aren't you actually required to have a prototype?

[Queuetue]

Did he just point to a Coke can and say "Like this, but big!"

The Ferengi's got there first...

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't you heard of a Ferengi Emporium class porn server relay station before?

Prior art already exists

[BadDoggie]

Various forms of space art have already explored the concepts and while they haven't used them specifically advertise, they already use reflectivity and the blackness of space outside the atmosphere so that the works can be seen.

The Man Who Sold The Moon

[Metryq]

This sounds like the "carbon powder rocket to the moon" perversity mentioned in Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold The Moon." I can imagine some companies running more discreet ads that they paid to keep the skies clear.

Reagan was right.

[S3D]

Antisatellite weapon have some uses.

Will This Really Be Useful?

[jrduncans]

"People would be able to see writing in the skies from the Earth no worse than they see the stars," he said.

I know I can barely see the stars at all in the city. Is this only going to work to advertise to rural areas?

following immediately:

[Anonymous Coward]

Fine, I'm filing the provisional patent application for space based laser to be used to block these pop-up adds. There is no property law that applies to space. Therefore, if he put's an ad up there we should blow it up.

Great!

[Bones3D_mac]

Now AT&T can have finally have a Death Star circling the planet!

Who looks in the sky anyway?

[Bilange]

I mean, we're nerds, isnt it? Nerds just dont go much outside. And now they call that "News for nerds" !? Sheesh!

Re:Aren't you actually required to have a prototyp

[EricWright]

No, not any more... yet another modification to US Patent law to "help out the little guy".

Letter to the Human Race:

[Anonymous Coward]

Last night, I walked outside for a bit because it was such a beautiful evening (night). I looked up into the sky and just froze for about 10 minutes. The starlit night sky was just breathtaking and I couldn't help myself from just staring up and my flesh was acrawl with goosebumps. The ultimate humbling experience. For a moment, I left the confinds of my earthly hell and felt at peace amongst the bright pinpoints of light.
I get enough of the human race here on earth, let me have the sky as my own sanctuary, please keep your popup ads to yourselves.

Even if

[CGP314]

Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?

Even if if didn't violate a law, there are some things so repugnant that they shouldn't be done.

-Colin

Re:Even if

[larien]

Since when has that stopped anyone?

Geeks in Space?

[TwistedGreen]

What does this have to do with Geeks in Space, the long-dormant Slashdot radio show?

This is miscategorized! And here you got my hopes up that there would be a new episode after all these years...

Prior art

[farnerup]

Zorglub did this already in 1961, although with limited success.

IANAL

[smoondog]

Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?

Maybe I'm wrong but I think it is permitted to have patent protection on an illegal invention.

-Sean

You'll get used to it.

[brejc8]

I remember some friends describing a trip to the then USSR and saying that Moscow is very dull and gray but they couldnt put their finger on why. They eventually realised that there was no advertising. More recently when they saw some footage of some Moscow riots there were loads of adverts plastered all over the place they commented how much nicer the place looks with bright colours and lights.

Im sure we will have the same situation in the future where you go for a holiday in some poorer country and complain that the space just looks balck and boring.

Re:You'll get used to it.

[fdiskne1]

I took a vacation to "second-world" country and it was so nice not seeing advertisements. The only ad for a product that I recognized was a sign at the boat filling station stating where the fuel came from.

Here I've been thinking that if the in-your-face advertising got too bad, I just move to a country like that. If ads in space "fly", I may have to build myself a rocket and move to Mars.

AT&T logo

[aquabat]

That's no moon! That's a space station!!!

Eat at Joes?

[They_Call_Me_Spanky]

This would be the equivalent of projecting an advertising image on a natural landmark or such.

Imagine taking a pic of the family with Niagara Falls or (insert landmark) in the background and having a momento for the rest of your life to 'Drink Coca Cola' hovering above your heads.

It's visual pollution.

War

[onyxruby]

The day some asshat decides to pollute the night sky with a pop up that cant be killed is the day we find out if war can be declared on a company. Several million slashgeeks will figure out a way to shoot this would be obscenity down from earth. Our governments our bound not to destroy each others satelites, but private citizens are not. Especially when they start shooting from international waters.

Sealab quote?

[Anonymous Coward]

Marketing drones - "We've perfected a technology that would allow us to put a giant billboard into space. Picture it, Dick: your advertisement would be seen by everyone in the entire world! Of course, there would be catastrophic tidal waves, but the upside: kids love to surf!"

Suit - "That would be a choice demographic..."

Dick - "Gentlemen....surf's up!"

In Corporate America

[perdelucena]

In Corporate America you see Space in Ads...

----------
Join orkut /. community!!. It's community, not communism!

One good thing

[WormholeFiend]

about the Son of Star Wars program favored by GW Bush is that at the very least, it WILL have one use:

Shooting down space spam.

(probably not, but it's fun to imagine it)

Has to be said...

[linuxrunner]

It would make one HECK of a Bat Signal!!!

Won't bother me

[AtariAmarok]

This won't bother me. I've installed Google atmosphere, which contains space popup blocking.

What's next? The Grand Canyon?

[eegad]

If necessary, this will have to be stopped using the concept of ecological conservation. Every inch of nature's beauty does not need to be crammed with advertisements.

Re:Prior Art: I know, RTFA (Impracticality?)

[G4from128k]

This is a very different device being claimed here, one that can project light down to earth, not just painting something on a rocket.

So true. Mod me Embarassed!

But now that I look at this, I wonder about its practicality. The mirror constellation will either need some very large mirrors to project sunlight over "intercontinental" distances or only work for small areas at a time. (a flat mirror in GEO would only create about a 200 mile diameter cone of visiblity on Earth)

Also, he will have a bit of a trade-off on the orbit for the system. LEO will put his satellites in Earth's shadow soon after dark (his sats will compete with dusk and then go dark). LEO is also hit-or-miss on whether the sats are flying over the target audience at exactly dusk (perhaps a resonant orbit would work). GEO provides better light and is stationary above the target audience, but the constellation will need to be much bigger (span hundreds of miles) and the mirrors much bigger to create a visible sign.

What about Prior Art?

[Marc Desrochers]

I remember Bugs Bunny cartoons "Duck Rogers" with Daffy and Porky riding around in space doging space billboards... Perhaps WB should be awarded this patent?

Drink Coke

[SuperChuck69]

I can't shake this mental image of the International Space Station with a giant Drink Coke logo scrawled across the side... (Come to think of it, private funding for such projects isn't such a bad idea: "This launch brought to you by Levitra - if we can get a rocket up, imagine what we can do for you!")

Might not be so bad IFF

[stratjakt]

They were inflatable mylar structures with a VERY LIMITED lifespan, say, a month tops.

If someone wants to spend a billion dollars to have a logo a quarter of the size of the moon for a few weeks thats only really visible in rural areas, let them.

Folks have been chomping at the bit for this kind of stuff for decades. Ever since those big foil sphere satellites in the 60s were visible from earth.

Pizza Hut is prepared to spend a billion to the Russians for their logo up there, the producers of the Lord of the Rings contacted folks about putting an inflatable ring in orbit to hock their movie. The Eiffel Tower corporation wanted a space sculpture to commemerate their anniversary. There was talk of putting something up to celebrate the millenium..

It's going to happen. Whether you want to call it 'art' or 'advertising'.. Best to lay the ground rules now.

Re:radio

[DjMd]

Leela: Didn't you have ads in the 20th century?
Fry: Well sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio. And in magazines...and movies...and at ball games and on buses and milk cartons and t-shirts and written in the sky. But not in dreams. No siree!

Whoa. Deja vu.

This has been a possibility

[JawFunk]

This idea has been around for some time, but noone decided to patent it. Considering the many different ways you can link satellites, this is probably not the only patent that could be used for space ads.

The reason no company has decided to put up ads in space is that it would deface the only untouched place man has in this world, generating bad publicity rather than revenue.

Re:Some random "observations"

[Frennzy]

That's not always the case.

At Burning Man two years ago, some guys created a sodium-arc laser, and used it to beam messages into space using simple modulation. They had a fairly large booth setup where folks could put in their message, and vote on other messages others had already put in. The messages that got the highest votes were beamed out every night into the sky to a location (constellation) requested by the message author.

Pointless? Most likely. Cool? Definitely.

They also took some time to draw patterns on the bluffs surrounding the desert floor, just for kicks.

So, art is alive and well...you just have to know where to look.

"Now Over To The Weather Forecast..."

[pandrijeczko]

The temperature today will be a warm 22 degrees centigrade with humidity at 85%...

There will be a South-Westerly breeze of 12 mph...

Pepsi-rise will be at 6:14am and Nike-set will be at 8:48pm...

Re:Prior Art: I know, RTFA (Impracticality?)

[arivanov]

mirror constellation will either need some very large mirrors

Which in turn will generate a considerable amount of thrust so it will not stay in one place.

Classic solar sail.

In btw, this is feasible as a side effect for a solar sail ship. You make your sail advertise pepsi and get some dosh towards launch costs. Considering that solar sails are more then 17 years away (life of the patent) I do not see anything to worry about.

Look at it this way....

[BigGar']

The patent will expire before he's ever able to make it a reality.

Red Dwarf

[waterford0069]

This reminds me of a sub-plot in the _book_ Red Dwarf (as opposed to the TV series) where there was a ship that was sent out into inter-stellar space to make stars go nova, and create a giant, pixelated "Drink Coke" message in the sky.

This was the ship that Lister and Cat found on an asteroid/moon with Kryten waiting in it (and also the one that Kryten caused to crash by "washing" the computer).

Re:radio

[fuzzix]

That's just HORRIBLE. 'Nuff said.

As Bill Hicks put it:
"By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising, Kill Yourself. Just planting seeds, that's all I'm doing. No joke here. Really, Seriously, Kill Yourself. There is no rationalization for what you do. You are Satan's little helpers. Kill Yourself, Kill Yourself, Kill Yourself Now. I know some of you are thinking there's going to be a joke coming up...There's no fucking joke. Suck a tailpipe, hang yourself, borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy - do something to rid the world of your evil fucking presence. Okay, back to the show..."

I don't think any more needs to be said on this :)

It won't. Americans need it.

[MotherInferior]

Americans, by and large, have bought hook-line-and-sinker the idea of perceived value. With an entire nation of walking Gap ads, chatting up their "peeps" on a Nokia cell-shackle, how else can you arbitrate but with quality of marketing?

Trendster: Check it, Kiki. I got me an nGage.

Kiki: Eeew.

Trendster: Whatever.

[two weeks later]

Trendster: Yo, Kiki. I got me an iPod.

Kiki: Marry me.

Trendster: Solid.

Re:It won't. Americans need it.

[AndrewCox]

I think I missed your point - are you saying that the nGage is actually good and the iPod is not, but marketing only makes us think this is the case?

Is there a nicer-designed, compact MP3 hard drive player than the iPod? Is there a worse portable video game system than the nGage (in the same price range)?

Re:It won't. Americans need it.

[MotherInferior]

You're putting too much thought into it.

My point is that the actual quality of the product is irrelevant. Its value, for most folks, is determined not by quality but by perceived value. What does everyone else think about this product? To wit, a Gucci/Versace/Prada bag is not valuable because of how long it lasts/how well it performs but because it will get you [insert laudatory expression] from your [insert peer-group expression]. Or, it will get you [insert copulatory expression].

Perhaps it would have been better to use a non-geek example. Geeks tend to go to the other extreme. They have a habit of wearing fringe products like medals, if there is any real quality to the product. I.e. quality (to the exclusion of perceived value) is king.

So, in geek circles, the nGage sucks because, well, it just sucks as a product. The iPod is cool because, well, it does its job, and then some. Within Geekworld, these products' perceived values are (as they should be) based on their quality. Geeks are hardly mainstream, though. Outside Geekworld you'd be hard pressed to find someone who could give you a substantial reason for saying that the nGage sucks. Or that the iPod is cool. For most Americans, value is based on the tenuous (and highly manipulable) network of popular consensus. In essence, the marketing world is providing a kind of spritual leadership for the public consciousness.

Remember When?

[CrazyTalk]

Adverts were once banned from the internet, as well. Also (at least in the U.S.) there were never any commercials at the beginning of movies shown in a cinema, just coming attractions. There was just too much money to be made. Same applies to Space, or any other forum/medium once its use becomes more mainstream.

Bard says

[paiute]

CASSIUS
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.

BRUTUS
But yonder stars tell me wonderous Enzyte shall make us underlings no longer!

Saving Hubble?

[crovira]

What a brave new world we live in. With such people's in it.

When space itself is fair game for Spammers and the only way to see the stars is to be OFF THE F*CKING PLANET.

At least there's still day-time.

Coming Soon

[fdiskne1]

Turn your Little Dipper into a Big Dipper.

TO HELL WITH THAT!

[StefanJ]

"black and boring?"

Have you ever SEEN a clear night sky, outside of some light-polluted city or suburb?

The awe and beauty of the night sky gets washed out by crappy advertising and you tell us "you'll get used to it."

"The walls of the Grand Canyon were so dull and stone-colored. Now these billboards for s%$tburgers and cheap hotels make it so colorful and exciting!"

"This unspoiled meadow was so boring. It's SO much livlier now that it's littered with colorful flyers from local chiropractors and 10 minute oil change places!"

Screw That. F$#k that noise.

Stefan

Space trash

[Lord_Dweomer]

Ok, so we all know that trash in space is going to be a growing problem as we continue to reach out to the stars. Will we be able to get laws in place saying you can't litter, and this is considered littering? Or once we've got tons of space stations and every day space travel, is advertising in space going to just become as common as billboards while you drive?

Hate to break it to you...

[Dirk Pitt]

But these products are heavily advertised too.

There's a lucrative living to be made in business-to-business advertising. Billions of dollars are spent every year on telemarketing, direct mail, and trade shows to sell products that aren't directly consumer-advertised products.

Generic brands fit into this, too. Generic-brand companies compete for corporate agreements with supermarkets to sell their own 'no name' cereals, cookies, baking goods, etc. *Many* dollars are spent send reps to the four corners of the earth with samples, literature, anything they can do to market directly to the store in question.

Don't think for a second that advertising costs are any lower, or margins are any higher, just because it's generic. Usually the only thing different is that the production cost of the item is lower; it's just unnecessary to market a name to the consumer, because the ones buying generic are just looking for the lowest cost item that isn't completely indigestable.

Don't kid yourself; *every* consumer product is advertised/marketed in some form.

Re:Nothing New

[anubi]

You know, I would really like to know how much power it would take from Earth to illuminate the moon sufficiently for it to be easily recoginized from Earth... especially knowing the moon is not especially of a reflective nature.

The moon I see is illuminated by terawatts of sunlight. I suppose if I sat down and figured out exactly how many square feet of surface area was facing the sun at the time, and luminous flux per square foot, I could arrive at a more precise answer, but for now, I just know the answer is " a lot. ".

Trying to keep the light focused as it leaves our constantly changing refractive atmosphere might be a lot of fun too.

The only chance I see they could try is to try to do it during an eclipse?

If I didn't know any better, I would think this is an extension of...eh... wasn't Science Fiction author Robert Heinlein thinking along this line?

Just glad its not a government thing. I can buy Wal-Mart cola at 50 cents per 2 liter jug, if Coca Cola wants to spend their money on this, but I have no alternative to paying tax. That's my money gone - it won't live to support the economy by ending up in a local businesses cash register.

Lavrynov Seems To Be Lying About Having a Patent

[ipandithurts]

After searching the United States Patent Office database and the European Patent Office database I failed to find any patent by an inventor of the name Lavrynov.

It is possible that he filed a registration patent in Russia. However a registration patent is filed essentially as a copyright would be, when you file what amounts to be an invention disclosure. This simply provide one "proof" that the purported "invention" existes as of the date filed.

If one wishes to "enforce" a registration patent, one must prove in court, during litigation, that the registration should be accorded legal rights.

It's unfortunate that news sources don't take the time to research stuff like this.