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U.S. Plans Targeted Draft for Computer Personnel
waytoomuchcoffee writes "The US Selective Service System is drawing up plans for a 'special skills draft'. There is already a system in place to draft health care personnel, and this system would be expanded in order to 'rapidly register and draft' computer specialists."
Type 1 diabetes was never this handy! They don't want me anywhere near the military.
to move to canada =\
Just say you don't know how to use Microsoft products.
'rapidly register and draft' computer specialists
Better go out and start writing my e-mail with Outlook Express! That will immediately prove I am not a computer specialist
If they pay more than the paltry salary I'm making now, then draft me up!
'When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.' -HST
I thought they were outsourcing these things :)
Next up: Outsourcing missile control to China...
I'm amazing. You aren't. SUCK IT
you dont know how to close I tags either!
...how do they determine who has "computer skills"? And is this really feasible? How will they make someone work for them? How will they even know if a computer programmer is a computer programmer? Do they have some kind of national database of them? This isn't anything like normal conscription, and sounds like a dodgy idea to me.
If they're drafting you for 'special skills' you're pretty unlikely to get stuck out someplace where you have a high chance of catching a bullet (or some high explosive.) This is probably far less true in the case of people with language skills, however.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The present operation of the US Selective Service is more or less trivial because the draft system not active, and it takes an Act of Congress in order to activate it. However, an Act of Congress can also totally rewrite the rules,
The draft in its present form is also very unconstitutional because it discrimates between men and women. In this day and age, that makes it a political untouchable. To require women to register will spark protests, but to not require them to do so would lead to court injunctions halting the draft process.
Congresspeople also have learned something from the Vietnam war. If a war is so unpopular that we are out of "weekend warrior" reserves and we can't convince people to join on their own, as a politician you should be voting to force a withdrawl rather allow the war to continue. To be depleted to the point that a draft is needed in modern times is a sign that we've already lost and just can't admit it.
The only people in Congress who called for a draft during recent years have been those who oppose the president's military plans. By rolling out a draft, or even raising the possiblity of a draft, a war effort suddenly becomes less popular.
Bottom line... the Selective Service exists only as a tool to be used in a doomsday situation, just like all of the city fallout shelters that were built in the USA during the cold war to be prepared for a nuclear bomb that never came. I'd consider anything new we hear from the Selective Service to be a rarely-used bureaucracy trying to justify its existance because in tight budgets, cutting the Selective Service's staff is always a low-pain cut.
It's about a MILITARY DRAFT. One of the exemptions from draft is type 1 diabetes.
If they're this desperate for workers, is there desperation reflected in wage scales, benefits, etc?
What's a guy make with a freshly-minted bachellaureate in computer science make, working for the military? Where do most of them end up, both in geographical and task-related terms? How much control over where they put you does a new officer have?
Oh, great. This is going to be worse than the ASFAB test I took in my first undergraduate year. Before my eyes lost their 20/17 rating, I planned to fly for the Marine Corps, but I had dudes from a number of government agencies aside from the armed services calling my apartment and dropping by both home and work.
So, it is stuff like this that is going to make anonymity much more important than it is now. The problem of course is that unless you are completely disenfranchised from society your academic records are known, any published writing you have is known, your credit rating is known (believe it or not, certain government agencies look very carefully at your credit rating when recruiting you), and "virtual" persona are relatively easy to correlate with specific persons (all of you anonymous cowards take note). And all you folks that think: "Well, my Ph.D. or M.D. is going to keep me out of the draft", take note. If you are under the age of 45, we are prime candidates.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Can't wait to design Access databases for the government. Just hope there isn't too much data, else my listboxes might be hard to scroll.
Will they be outsourcing this draft to india as well?
This has been going on in Israel for decades. As a result, Isreal has produced some of the best computer programmer's in the world. Most of the developers end up in VERY high paying jobs once they are released from military duty.
Of course, if you don't like the draft, you could always migrate to India India.
Nothing to see here
And what exactly is with the idea of giving something back to the country that makes your way of life possible? Pretty damn typical of Slashdotters - demand everything, give nothing, and complain about it.
Why not just offer large enlistment bonuses and perhaps raise the age limits? I'll bet there are a lot of 40-something geeks who'd be willing to sign up. It would also be a lot easier politically than restarting the draft, and probably get better results: volunteers tend to do better work than draftees.
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
This doesn't make too much sense to me.
In the past 10 years, computer specialists in the military were offered large retention bonuses to stay in the military and reenlist. Now those bonuses aren't to be seen. I know from experience.
So why isn't the military trying harder to retain these already military trained computer specialists but supposedly drawing up a draft? Something doesn't jive here.
This guy is way out there
there are twin bills in the house and senate in order to conscript for active duty, rerserve military, and homeland security civilian jobs. Male and female. 18-26. Manidtory 2 years.
I forgot the bill numbers. My little sister did a paper on it for her highschool government class. I'll stake my life and reputation that it's true, though. The bills have been in the works since early in 2003 and the schedual is to bring them into effect in 2005.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Drop and give me twenty shell scripts!
If the military want to get a bunch of computer specialists, they can just hire them. Drafts are usually only used to acquire cannon fodder because the people who get drafted are often the unrepresented class. It hardly seams fair to pay one CS student's way thought college with ROTC, and then hijack another grad's career without proper compensation.
Don't spill my secret plan to the world!
The US Selective Service System is drawing up plans for a 'special skills draft'.
Would this include women?
Years ago in high school, a female friend once angrily declared the draft "sucked". I looked her straight in the face and said "What do you care?" "Huh?" "You' can't be drafted, only men can be." This was apparently a major revelation, and shockingly, the draft was forgotten about almost immediately.
Main theories I've heard are that a)"our nation's daughters" coming home in body bags during a war would be political suicide, and b)"women aren't as [strong/smart/whatever] as men". Oh, then there's c)"women would use their feminine wiles to distract the men busy fighting!"
Ever notice how feminists just really aren't torn up about any of that, even though most of it is deeply sexist? Also notice how Jessica Lynch was supposedly(according to the Army) beaten, raped, tortured, etc- when all evidence(and her own comments, before she developed permanent amnesia of events) point to all her injuries coming from the car accident she was in, and that Iraqi doctors took exemplary care of her? It's like the Army was saying "look, this is why you don't want women in the military! They're brave but helpless, and can get RAPED! Isn't she cute? She could be YOUR daughter!"
Please help metamoderate.
...for all those jokes we made about him on Slashdot!
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
Well, I always suspected it. I am a member of the US Naval Reserve and about two years ago, the NAVRES asked all of it's members to fill out a "skills profile". This profile would be used to solicit qualified members and ask them to volunteer to fill temporary billets as they arose. The program was presented as a way to find the best service member for the task and to offer them the oppurtunity to take orders for that job. A lot of the billets that open up are from 6 weeks to 9 months.
I was always dubious of doing this, becuase if there were ever a "crisis" and they REALLY needed someone with my skills, I foresaw the "volunteer oppurtunity" becoming an "involuntary recall to active duty" in a heartbeat.
I doubt this decision is directly related, but now they have a massive database of skills that they can search through and draft from first.
Veritas patesco per quaestio questio. Truth is revealed through questions.
Amateur radio operators were an important source of technically skilled recruits during World War II. Computer hackers could fill a similar role in future conflicts. Not so much for their civilian skills, but for a pool of people with demonstrated intelligence and aptitude for technical jobs.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
There is a 'fat boys' program in all branches of the military. They force you to do the two things that most dieters can't (they typically only do one): excercise -and- reduce calorie intake.
Picture waking up at 4 every morning to "I'm gonna make you strong!".
Why don't they, like, have a special draft for lawyers? Why pick on us techies? Okay, sure they won't be much use in battle, but still.. wouldn't everyone like to see the fellas at SCO trying to put a restraining order on an Iraqi guerilla army?
I wonder how they will be able to know if we are indeed experts in our field? Will they draft only the pioneers of our field? Only those names that have published books?
Perhaps they'll surf Monster.com for resumes.
Which is the problem with this "jobless recovery".
Too many people don't have jobs. People without jobs are NOT paying taxes. People without jobs ARE taking money in the form of unemployment benefits. If someone loses a job, that person goes from a net gain for the system to a net loss for the system.
Bush's theory is that if you give lots of money to rich people, then they'll hire more people and there will be a enough additional people paying taxes to offset the loss of the tax cut.
Except that the people being hired are NOT US citizens in the US. So the government is taking in less money because of the tax cuts and the jobs are going to India so the US citizens aren't being hired so they can't pay into the system to offset the original tax cut.
Now, this means BIGGER profits for the corporations which mean BIGGER profits for the execs of those companies.
But rich people do NOT spend money the same way the average person does. One person buying $500,000 boat is NOT the same as 25 people buying $20,000 cars.
So, tax cuts and increased profits actually yielded ZERO new jobs last month.
There seems to be a very basic flaw in your logic. Your process does not accurately predict events.
This is America, you'd think by now we'd be fighting with robot armies and other new-age weaponry.
Besides, I'd rather put effort into improving infrastructure than destroying it. Give every Iraq cable TV and start a bunch of McDonalds and they'll be too lazy and fat like us Americans to give a shit about their government.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
Actually the army PFT is based on push ups, situps, and a 2 mile run. Pull ups are required for entry into ranger school, but they otherwise aren't a factor. There are however height&weight/body fat requirements.
Yes, my only tool is a hammer. And you're starting to look like a nail.
Aha! Clever, you just proved that you can't even keep your secret plan secret!
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Now class, can anyone tell me why there would be such a large, quite push to restaff so quickly? Mark my words, the draft will be back.
Here's my guesses:
1. If something goes really wrong this summer in Iraq or Afghanistan (like the Tet Offensive in Vietnam) then they will quickly draft and deploy before the November elections.
2. If Bush is reelected then the draft will start Jan or Feb 2005, slow for the first few months and then when they are up to speed they'll start pulling large amounts of young men.
3. If Kerry is elected I can't guess what he would do. I don't if there would be a major difference.
Watch how the US Govt handles draft, induction, training and deployment this time. You'll see companies created that go through boot together, post recruit train together, deploy together, what's left of them will get discharged together and the company disbanded. No more singles in, singles out. This is much more like WWII than Korea or Vietnam.
If you are 14 - 20 years old then I'd seriously start making plans on what you'll do. Speaking as someone who toted a 16 for his uncle I'd recommend not going at any cost. We use to say "the only thing worst than cleaning a body bag is being in one". As a parent I would do whatever it took to keep my son away from any unjust and immoral war like that clusterfuck going on in the Mid East.
As Frank Zappa once said: "What they do in Washington is take care of number one and number one ain't you. You ain't even number two."
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
For HR.163, go here and type hr 163 into the "Bill Number" field.
And my unit spent most of its time in the motor pool, or in the field, digging in the dirt. Not once did I train to perform a mission as a linguist with my unit while I was in uniform, because officers can't lead soldiers who aren't in the field. It doesn't get them promoted, so they uniformly oppose it. Every bit of funding for every linguist mission was cut, and the mandatory eight hours of language maintenance required for all linguists was gradually reduced to no maintenance at all.
The only time I was actually useful was while on TDY.
Any assertion that the military needs people in these specialties is not true. They had them, indeed have them, and I can pick up the phone right now, call the RSDNCO of my former unit, and ask what they will be doing on Monday. I am confident that the answer will be: "motor pool".
This is something that has been brewing since before the Kennedy Report, and it still pisses me off, especially in light of all the back-pedalling from the FBI and military that they "don't have the resources". They did have them. Due to mismanagement and fucked-up priorities (primarily the OER system), they couldn't keep them. My re-enlistment counseling with my commanding officer (whom I respected a great deal) was, "well I can offer you the Army nurse program, or physician's assistant, but unless you want to become an officer, you won't be able to transfer out of your MOS because it's short".
During my time in the military, I think about one in three linguists re-enlisted, always for choice of duty station. I cannot count the number of linguists that disappeared, that training wasted, because they spent four (or more) years doing nothing. If they left the military under good terms, they should have been actively pursued by the FBI or NSA so that training wouldn't have been wasted. But it wasn't a priority until 9/11. Then, all those three-letter agencies suddenly realized that they'd better come up with effective damage control fast, so they settled on: "we don't have the resources."
It's a lie.
Slashdot is my Mercer Box.
Yes, but this isn't a general draft. The conscripts will be coding, not fighting. You don't need to be particularly fit to do that ;)
And yes, what is next IS the general draft. They have already hired all the required personel for the local draft boards. Spent $28 million to get the draft ready to begin no later than June 15th, 2005. What's that? They need congressional approval? Read Bills S 89 and HR 163. They would have been in the news, but they had just caught Saddam so it never made the cut...
It's not the entire country, though. Just able bodied men and women between the ages of 18 and 26...unless they've change that range. And yes, it is co-ed now ;) And if you are a student, or a farmer...you arn't excluded this time. If you want a drivers licence, or if you attended public school, you are already registered. Although if they got your name, address, and phone number from your school, you had the opportunety for your parents to opt you out, but the schools are not required to inform you of that option, or even that they are giving your information to the government. If schools do not comply, they lose government funding.
And as for "for their entire life" no, just 30 years. You see, many of the troops, reserves, and National Guard in Iraq (est 43%) are not planning to reenlist. Unfortunatly, they have been "stop gapped" back into service anyways; many of them whose tours were supposed to end in 2003 or 2004 have found they NOW end in 2030. And yes, the war will still be going on in 2030. Bush himself has said he expects The War on Terror to drag on for several more decades at the minimum. I mean, they have only toppled 2 nations so far, and they still have Iran, Libya and Syria to topple, not to mention North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, and so on.
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
Since when has the draft stopped a war? The only thing the draft ensures is that politically unconnected people are forced to fight and die for causes supported for the politically connected, while their kids get cushy jobs in the Air National Guard, where no one cares if they show up or not.
The draft is slavery. I am a veteran, and I proudly volunteered. But if they were to show up claiming they had a right to my life and time - I'd go to jail first.
" And how, exactly, do they "force" you to excercise?"
You're a guy with no right and a sadistic drill sargeant whose job it is to make you lose those 100 pounds.
I suspect you wouldn't go to prison; you would be compelled to lose those pounds or die trying. Remember, the military has guns, they will smack you around, they will break you down and remold you.
And if you think you'll outsmart them, keep in mind that today's military training is a result of 1000's of years of human experimentation on how to make good soldiers.
You are a young boy who hasn't been able to wipe your ass for 20 years. I suspect thousands of years of experience gives them an edge in ways you're not capable of.
Look sonny, just lose the weight. It will be easier now than with a drill sargeant beating you down.
Thanks to the economic benefits of imperial war, you can soon return to the jobs that major US corporations regrettably had to ship overseas to boost their CEOs' and shareholders' profits. Those profits simply were not high enough after a decade of record earnings! Now that our economy is unable to provide jobs, we will create jobs by fighting for, er, freedom!
Outsourcing was a painful lesson; we understand. But with our exciting new insourcing, you'll be right back doing what you're used to - writing software, patching Microsoft technology, and answering basic user questions (but politely this time, or we'll have to mercilessly beat you, ha ha!). Heck, we'll even throw in room and board. Can Starbucks give you that?
Now, you're asking: O Mighty and Glorious Leader Bush, what do I have to do to make myself more deserving? At ease, citizen. Remember: the Enemy is everywhere, and he has no respect for frequent backups or the single-OS monopoly that is the foundation of our free society. Keep your shoes shined and your trap shut, and we'll be in touch when the time comes to fight for the CEOs!
I'm an Ada programmer; I'm the last person they'll want!
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
The PNAC agenda + our current military status = the draft.
Its like the lottery, except when you win you lose. Don't like it? Kick out Bush and his PNAC buddies.
"THIS IS MY DISTRO. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My distro is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master 'Vice City'."
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
Nobody's twisting your arm _forcing_ you to be an American citizen, therefore the draft is voluntary.
Not everyone has the option to take up another citizenship. Some people are shit out of luck in that department. Though I think I would enjoy my time in prison for refusing a draft; that's the most honorable way out of a compulsary service requirement. No one can accuse you of joining the national guard to get out of a draft if you spend a few years in the hole for your country. There is simply no other way to emerge from a period of unjust war with your honor completely intact. You can try to repair it after serving in the military like Kerry did, but that's just window dressing. Every innocent man, woman and child your service killed will never come back. You have to refuse service and refuse taxes and do your jail time for it, until your country is out of the mess, if you want to be able to say you are a patriot without further dishonoring yourself with a lie.
Not that I'm much for nationalism these days, I would go 'hiking in Maine' long before my number came up.
Interesting thing.
We were studying supply and demand, and the relationships in a Free Enterprise System. Demand is paid-for transfer of goods from seller to buyer when both agree on price. If you want a product bad enough, and if you are capable and willing to pay enough for it, some seller will generate a supply. Thats just how the system works. Sure, there are workarounds for the system, like simply taking it if you want it, and we call it theft and extortion. Note how the government has passed all sorts of law to protect the owners of intellectual property lately.
So, one way of looking at a draft is imposing a severe tax on some of the population based on whatever criteria they choose because the demander ( government ) of the resource ( someone else's time and labor ) refuses to negotiate for it, and simply uses a gun to achieve his objectives.
If the free enterprise system, which this country is supposedly based on, is supposed to work, the rights of all, not just some, have to be respected. How can Congress say downloading music or copying software is bad, yet think its OK to commit widespread theft of "factors of production" by invoking a draft? If they need soldiers, PAY for them. Up the salary enough, people will join. Need specialized skills? Compete the same way everyone else has to. I wish Congress could tell me just what is the American Way to fill a need.. negotiate for it, or just use a gun.
That damn draft kept me uncomfortable the whole time I went through adolescence. Although I lucked out on the "lottery", it did drive in just how wrong it was to force ones way at gunpoint. I know the current regime likes to have a lot of prayer breakfasts, but actions like this say a lot more than strings of words ending in "amen."
It just seems to me that we are no better than the ones we fight, if we use the same tactics to enforce compliance with the dictator's rulings.
The government has already shown in my mind very poor fiscal policy by lowering the federal funds rate to such riduculous lows and causing our dollar to become cheap. It places rewards on those who live beyond their means by ensuring they pay back less value than they borrowed, and it damn nearly assures all the working wage-slaves out there that they will probably never be able to afford their own home. Did wages track the the resultant spike in housing and fuel prices as the market achieved a new price point equilibrium reflecting the new inflated value of the dollar?
Most likely, all working people received an effective wage cut, as they keep getting paid numerically yesterdays wage. It makes way for an endless spiral of "raises" just to stay where we are, invisibly pushing us up into higher and higher tax rate brackets. No wonder our employers can't afford us anymore.
Any monetary assets people were saving for retirement are effectively diminshed. And they don't even allow us with retirement accounts to write off the effect of the inflation against the interest on the account. And we wonder why the US has such a low saving rate?
I honestly believe I have been cursed by an old Chinese curse... "May you live in interesting times." I believe the door is just opening now for some real lulus.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
For example, if you let all of your young college students go off and enlist, where exactly are you expecting to get your next generation of officer corp in the event the war is protracted? If you put rifles in the hands of engineers and others who are keeping your industrial machinery (which you need to prosecute the war) running how exactly are you going to continue to be able to fight?
Look at the experience of Britain in WWI. All of their young idealistic college students dropped out and enlisted. When the war dragged on they discovered they'd eaten the seed corn. They'd thrown their best human resources away as grunts on the front lines early in the war.
In World War II, we may well have needed enough soldiers that the free market couldn't provide them, but I can't see a draft in modern times as anything but a dodge for the military to avoid paying market rates for skilled workers by forcing them to work under threat of prison instead. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the draft is slavery, justifiable only under very limited circumstances that we're nowhere near right now---and politicans will ultimately make this decision on expediency rather than genuine need, as they do with everything else.
I just joined the Marine Corps. I leave in Sept. I am not scared of some draft.
I'd imagine not, considering that you are already in the military. There are those of us, balls notwithstanding, that have become accusomed to our current ways of life and would not like to be forced into military service. There are also those among us who again, balls notwithstanding, would simply prefer not to die.
I can not think of any people other than my own for whom I would risk death to secure freedom. Using volunteers for our charity work around the world is all well and good, but I think drafts shold be reserved for actual threats to the nation's security.
Too busy staying alive... ~ R.A.
> There are those of us, balls notwithstanding,
> that have become accusomed to our current ways
> of life and would not like to be forced into
> military service. There are also those among us
> who again, balls notwithstanding, would simply
> prefer not to die.
There are two ways to look at it:
1 - Afraid to die/lose your current way of life
2 - Want to kill someone/change your current way of life
Most of the people who join the USMC fall into that second catagory. If their recruiter is even vaugely honest with them (which, I'll admit, is a streach for even the mildest mannered recruiter), they let prospective recruits know that, in the end, it's about killing the enemy dead either by pushing a button, pulling a trigger or by putting your fscking kbar through his heart.
Anyone who forgets that and still thinks military service is a good idea from them should probably join the peace corps and go off to get high with the natives in the next country that the USMC will be visiting shortly.
Personally, I'm with Robert Heinlein: No service, no vote.
This makes clear that the "U.S. Plans Targeted Draft for Computer Personnel" headline is pure scaremongering. No one is about to get drafted. This is not "Tin soldiers and Nixon coming" for those of you trapped in the 1970s. This is deep, long-range contingency planning by a government agency that needs to look busy to keep their funding from being cut.
Too many people seem to be ignorant of the difference between "contingent" and "imminent." Just because, say, for example, FEMA updates its plans on recovering from a nuclear war DOESN'T MEAN we're planning to launch a nuclear war. Likewise, that whole "Pentagon plans for possibility of global climate change" had nothing to do with them planning for what they thought was going to happen, but everything to do with laying in contingency plans for what MIGHT happen, just like we had "rainbow" plans before World War II as to what we might have to do if involved in a global war against various enemies; just because we made plans for a global war against England, Russia and China (as well as Japan and Germany) didn't mean such an event was likely.
Will anyone here on Slashdot be called up? If, say, al Queda or North Korea nukes DC or Los Angeles, maybe. Otherwise all this talk is a bunch of blather from people who like to over-react anytime anyone in the Bush administration mentions the words "national security" and "computers" in the same sentence.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
So long as we understand "service" properly:
Never confuse serving the state with serving your country.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
So, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Are you willing to wager cold, hard cash that your paranoid liberal view of the world is rooted in fact rather than delusion? I've even given you four months longer than you're "sure" the draft will be reinstated. Or are you all just talk?
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
I'm currently in the Army Reserves and write software on the civilian side. For the past 8 years I've been trying to find a way to help out the Army Reserves with my computer skills - and from my perspective there are lots of others just like me.... problem is, the Army doesn't know what to do with us. Sure, they have set up special 'Information Operations' units filled with talented people... but most of these people waste their time ordering computers, installing microsoft 2000 on them, and upgrading patches.... not to mention filling out paperwork and stacking boxes... its a complete waste of time. And these are smart people who really want to help out with their skills. I would prefer seeing the military make a plan for how to USE the technology specialists they have before drafting up a plan to pluck people out of their civilian life.