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Toyota's Trumpet Playing Robot Showcased

fsharp writes "The New York Times has an article discussing the first public showing of Toyota's new humanoid robot. During a demonstration, the biped robot played trumpet together with a rolling robot. Most telling about the article was the whole philosophy towards R&D: 'Toyota acknowledges that it is unlikely to turn a profit building robots anytime soon, but the program highlights its engineering-oriented culture and willingness to invest in projects that may not pay off for decades.' How many companies these days are willing to drop money into some technology that may not turn a profit for many years?"

44 of 356 comments (clear)

  1. Very cool, but.. by mr.henry · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It pisses me off that no American company today would ever do something like this. Our leaders have sold our technological infrastructure out for quick $$$. The boobs may have T-shirts -- made in China, no doubt -- that say "America is #1", but it hasn't been for a long time. Japan and the other Asian countries do all the cool stuff now. Come on, could you see Ford or GM doing this?

    1. Re:Very cool, but.. by Average_Joe_Sixpack · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well in all fairness, the US does have 2 autonomous robots exploring the surface of another planet. Though I agree a Trumpet playing robot would make a cooler party gimmick

    2. Re:Very cool, but.. by _bug_ · · Score: 5, Funny

      There is something seriously wrong with your sense of 'cool'.

      Robots aren't cool?! What are you, an American CEO?

    3. Re:Very cool, but.. by Brento · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That kind of culture explains why Toyota was first to market with a profitable hybrid car, and why they're so far ahead that Ford's licensing hybrid technology from them.

      Here's the missing link that doesn't get publicized: automakers are ahead of the curve on robots because they use robotics extensively in assembly. The more accurately their robots move, the more accurately they assemble cars. Next time you wonder why Japanese cars have a reputation for being so well-built, think of projects like these.

      --
      What's your damage, Heather?
    4. Re:Very cool, but.. by Kenja · · Score: 5, Funny
      "Come on, could you see Ford or GM doing this?"

      I can see GM doing a robotic nose flute or kazoo.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    5. Re:Very cool, but.. by lionchild · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Something to consider about Japan and their rise in technology, is that since the end of WWII, they haven't had a military to take up financing, (or resources, or R&D, etc..) thus leaving the government, and the culture as a whole, to focus on something else...like business and technology.

      --
      Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
    6. Re:Very cool, but.. by swordboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It pisses me off that no American company today would ever do something like this.

      That is because Wall Street is so concerned with short-term profits. Gasoline is at an all-time high while Toyota/Honda are the only companies that had the patience to develop a profitable solution to the problem. In 1997 when Toyota introduced the hybrid, they were losing lots of money on every unit sold. Now, they are selling that same technology to US-based companies.

      Now, Ford isn't buying Toyota technology because it makes environmental sense. Rather, they are doing it because it makes sense for short-term profits - the same mindset that got them into this situation in the first place. This mentality will catch up to the US sooner or later. And where is solar energy?

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    7. Re:Very cool, but.. by bwy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ford and GM don't have to innovate because the prices of Japanese cars are artifically high in the U.S. due to taxes on imports designed to "level the playing field."

      We don't need to have all these tariffs on products imported from countries that have the same standard of living that we do. The Japanese work hard, yes, but they are paid first world salaries so if the prices of their automobiles is low, it is because they are damn good at building cars and if they want to work a little harder than us to do it, more power to them.

      On the other hand cars imported from Mexico (like the VW I drive) are produced at the expense of some Mexican making 70 cents an hour. We can't have free trade in this scenerio or we'll all be living in cardboard lean-tos just like our counterparts south of the border.

    8. Re:Very cool, but.. by Belsical · · Score: 5, Funny
      Come on, could you see Ford or GM doing this?

      Sure, if you wanted the robot to play a half-tone flat for half an hour and then fall on its face...

      Ben
      --

      "There are no such things as mutual fantasies. Yours bore us and ours offend you."
      - Bill Maher
    9. Re:Very cool, but.. by Nakito · · Score: 5, Informative

      It sounds as if it may be cool, but I wonder if these robotic lips are really as advanced as the article suggests, or if instead some kind of shortcut was taken. I was a music major and I played a brass instrument (french horn). Brass instruments do not have a reed or any other artificial source of vibrations. Instead, the performer's own lips are the source of the vibrations. The performer essentially generates a highly-controlled "raspberry" by constricting the muscles that surround the mouth and buzzing the lips while pressed against the mouthpiece (so the sound of a brass instrument is really just an amplified raspberry, artfully done). This is hard enough to do by itself, but it's made even harder by the fact that brass instruments embody the open harmonic series, which means that the peformer can play many notes without changing the valve settings just by adjusting the tension in the mouth (think of a bugle). One of the things that makes a brass player competent is the ability to hit the correct harmonic without cracking the note (also known as a "clam"). It's very hard to get it right consistently. If this robot is really doing all of this, plus pressing the valves, plus articulating the correct attacks and rhythm, and doing all of it well enough to play "Trumpeter's Holiday," I'm impressed!

    10. Re:Very cool, but.. by Mateito · · Score: 5, Insightful

      | Japan and their rise in technology, is that
      | since the end of WWII, they haven't had a
      | military to take up financing, (or resources, or
      | R&D, etc..)

      True, but the huge amount that the US spends on Military is largely by choice.

      Is it really necessary to have sufficient armaments to destroy the planet seven times over? Is it really necessary to have sufficient firepower to independantly forcibly take over any other country/contitent on the planet?

      And are these things more important than education, health care etc etc.

      Every country sets its own agenda. The US wants to be the untouchable goliath of military power. If the US wanted to be the world leader in non-military research and development, they could be.

    11. Re:Very cool, but.. by lionchild · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Every country sets its own agenda. The US wants to be the untouchable goliath of military power. If the US wanted to be the world leader in non-military research and development, they could be.

      Very, very true. But, it just wouldn't be The American Way if we didn't have the ability to police the world. However, if you pay close attention to the history of how the US became involved in various wars,[read: WWI, WWII] you'll see we re-acted to outside influences. Had those not come along, the US may never have invested so heavily in a war machine. (Just my $0.02.)

      --
      Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
    12. Re:Very cool, but.. by Have+Blue · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And they had an advantage that Europe also got after WW2: Their manufacturing infrastructure was completely destroyed, so they had a chance to start from scratch with cutting-edge (at the time_) technology throughout the entire process. The US was (and is) still trying to maintain their much older and less capable facilities, since that was still less expensive than starting over and there was no carpet-bombing to force them into it.

    13. Re:Very cool, but.. by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's another one: IBM. Big Blue has been behind so much of the scientific grunt work, a great deal of which has consisted of conceiving of and building experimental scientific equipment.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Very cool, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not to diminish the tremendous accomplishments of our extraplanetary explorations, but I think it probably wouldn't be happening if it weren't for government sponsorship, solely because of the immediate unprofitability.
      I think the parent's point was that it's not foreign nations, but corporations that are willing to invest in these 'party gimmicks' that have no immediate application. As with the case of exploring mars, there is an intrisic value in pushing the boundries to any extent in any field.

    15. Re:Very cool, but.. by joggle · · Score: 4, Informative

      AFAIK, they are semi-autonomous in that they can navigate over and around obstacles from point A to point B without being explicitly told to do so.

    16. Re:Very cool, but.. by Ian_Bailey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not to mention the US only trails Japan by a thin margin in R&D spending as well as personnel

    17. Re:Very cool, but.. by BZ · · Score: 5, Informative

      1998 figures on military budgets (from http://www.cdi.org/issues/wme/spend.html):

      US $265 billion
      Russia $48 billion
      Japan $45 billion
      France $38 billion
      UK $33 billion
      Germany $32 billion
      China $32 billion

      Yeah. No military to take up financing. Just 1.5 times the military budget of the UK.

      Japan has one of the largest and best-equipped armies in the world, in fact . It's just called a defence force and theoretically prohibited from taking offensive action by the Japanese constitution.

  2. Lots of them are... by bc90021 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...it's called R&D. What won't make money today, will be "necessity" tomorrow, and then that's when you get people to pay.

    Furthermore, even if the technology itself doesn't automatically pan out (ie, humanoid robots), it may still have profitable applications in other areas (ie, prosthetics).

    1. Re:Lots of them are... by WormholeFiend · · Score: 4, Funny

      "it may still have profitable applications in other areas (ie, prosthetics)."

      YES! At last I will be able to get new artificial lips and be able to play the trumpet again!
      --

  3. Alternative Article by luxis · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:Alternative Article by Begossi · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Artificial lips as subtle as human lips
      The 35kg as yet unnamed robot has artificial lips which can alter their position as subtly as human lips as air is forced through them, enabling it to play a trumpet as it presses the stops with its hands."

      Am I the only one wondering...

      --
      Friend of the Wise, Brother of the Brave.
    2. Re:Alternative Article by luxis · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ooo.. found the real homepage :

      http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/special/robot/

  4. Boring ... ZZZzzzzzz..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    When are the goddamn SexBots going to be released?! My lifeless real doll ain't cutting it!

  5. One answer. by bad+enema · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "How many companies these days are willing to drop money into some technology that may not turn a profit for many years?"

    The kind that is already doing very well financially and wants to solidify a reputation of innovation. Similar to Microsoft's $1 billion donation to Africa.

  6. A heckler from the 18th Century by The+I+Shing · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Presenters of the music-playing machine found themselves being unmercifully heckled by a man calling himself Mssr. Jacques de Vaucanson, who proclaimed loudly that he had accomplished robotic music more than two hundred years prior to this demonstration.

    When the presenters pointed out that Mssr. Vaucanson would have to be long dead as of this late date, the suddenly horrified heckler collapsed into a pile of dust, and the remainder of the presentation was conducted without further interruption.

    --
    You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
    1. Re:A heckler from the 18th Century by curtisk · · Score: 4, Informative

      seriously MOD PARENT UP!, that guy made a flute playing "automaton" that had about 12 songs back in 1737

      --

      Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!

    2. Re:A heckler from the 18th Century by Cecil · · Score: 4, Informative

      No offense intended to flute players out there, but speaking as someone who has played both instruments, it would be several orders of magnitude harder for a robot to play a trumpet than a flute.

      Woodwind instruments in general tend to prize consistent, solid airflow to make their music. This is ridiculously easy for a machine to do and do exceptionally well. The design or the reed is what does the conversion from airflow into sound.

      Brass instruments are an entirely different animal. 90% of playing a brass instrument is in the lips. If you blow straight through a trumpet, nothing happens. You get a whooshy air sound coming out the other end. If you don't buzz your lips together to get a note, you get basically no sound at all. You tighten the lips to go up to a higher note.

      It is significantly more impressive that a set of robotic lips have the articulation and control to be able to play the trumpet.

    3. Re:A heckler from the 18th Century by curtisk · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It is significantly more impressive that a set of robotic lips have the articulation and control to be able to play the trumpet.

      I hear you on the technical aspects, but I think its just as impressive that a robot was built nearly 270 years ago that could play a flute. And hell, the guy made a robotic duck that could eat,drink,quack and deficate as well! Where's your shitting robot Toyota?!?! :D

      --

      Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!

  7. Reg-Free Link by _bug_ · · Score: 5, Informative

    Registration free link

    I wish article authors would at least put up some effort to find and use reg-free links when possible.

  8. Long-term investing by BillFarber · · Score: 5, Insightful
    How many companies these days are willing to drop money into some technology that may not turn a profit for many years?"

    How about most drug companies.

    1. Re:Long-term investing by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But of course if a drug company spends 7 years developing a drug and starts trying to recoup some of that cost over the next few years everyone will forget the R&D and point out how the drug costs nothing to make and so the company is ripping everyone off. When I worked at a pharmaceutical company there were cases when it took so long to develop a drug that it wasn't worth bringing it to market because the patent would almost have expired by time it was ready for release. (The patent needs to be filed right at the beginning of the testing process.)

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    2. Re:Long-term investing by Manitcor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The cost of advertising of a newly approved drug is a VERY SMALL drop in the bucket compared to the cost to develop and push a drug through clinical trials and all the red tape the FDA has constructed.

      Your typical drug, say Viagria, starts as a base compund. Normally there are over 100,000 or more base compounds that are tested and researched before even one compound is found that would be useful to market (and this is before the inital FDA filing, AKA Pre-EDC). Once the compound is registered with the FDA and goes under intensive developemnt there is much more money spent.

      On average development costs for a single drug can esclate into billions of dollars. Of course, if successful, a single good drug can bring enough profit to keep a drug company operating for years before the patent protection goes away.

      The reason drugs outside of the US are much cheaper is mainly thanks to the FDA. The FDA has massive amounts of regulations even after the drug is approved that regulate how a drug is manufactured and handled. These regulations even dictate how the drug company manages and runs its production computer networks and client systems. This of course adds A LOT of overhead when making a drug.

      Drugs coming from non FDA regulated sites (this is the kinda stuff you buy super cheap on the net) are much cheaper however knowing what the FDA regulations are and why they are there I feel much safer paying more money for an FDA approved drug which I know will be safe as opposed to a drug made at a non-FDA regulated site which may not meet the standards of saftey we have here in the states.

      --
      "Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
  9. Our end is near... by Gunsmithy · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...dear god, think of the possibilities. A robot with the ability to play a trumpet constantly...endlessly. The annoyance will be legendary.

    --
    Kids these days. They don't know the difference between classic, and just plain old.
    1. Re:Our end is near... by tuffy · · Score: 4, Funny
      The annoyance will be legendary.

      I hear the bagpipe playing robot is still in development.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

  10. Hmmm, flexible humanoid lips? by jakedata · · Score: 5, Funny

    I for one can see several applications that might directly appeal to this crowd.

  11. Do it like Fark by Tenfish · · Score: 4, Funny

    Good News! Toyota announces a robot that can play the trumpet!

    Still working on the cure for the common cold, world peace, and an end to poverty.

    --

    --Guns don't kill people, abortion clinics kill people.
  12. sound clips? by chocolatetrumpet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am a trumpet player and I really want to hear this thing!

    Imagine if typing was so challenging that you spent 90% of your computer time refining and keeping your typing skills adequate, so you could spend 10% of the time programming...

    Anyone have any sound clips?

    --
    Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
  13. I for one...... by Akai · · Score: 4, Funny

    Welcome our new, jazzier, robot overlords....

    (sorry someone had to)

    --
    Please send all UCE to scally@devolution.com so I can f
  14. It would... by BJZQ8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It would behoove many companies to invest more in R&D and less in padding executives pocketbooks with $100's. HP, for example, has gutted their engineering ranks while simultaneously buying jets for the higher-ups. Closer to my region of the country, Caterpillar has outsourced waves of R&D people...and their executives are getting ever-higher bonuses.

  15. which companies? by slide-rule · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > How many companies these days are willing to drop money into some technology that may not turn a profit for many years?"

    Aerospace, for one. Working at one of the companies that makes commercial (and military) aircraft engines, it is jokingly quoted that: "A decision to launch a new engine program is a calculated risk to go into the hole for about 20 years" (Meaning it takes about that long to "turn profit" off all the years of design, development, testing, and certication processes.) Imagine how many times the market flops around responding to other market pressures in that length of time.

    As an interesting aside for many of you, aircraft engines have historically been sold on the razor/blades business model, so its an interesting business balance between a quality engine that airline customers will buy and the need to sell spares to eventually make money on FAR down the road.

  16. Imagine the future uses of this robot... by MalaclypseTheYounger · · Score: 5, Funny

    "This one time, at band camp... I got a BJ from a trumpet playing robot!"

    sorry...

    --
    Check out the best P2P sharing website: MEDIACHEST.COM
  17. Re:Look at IBM by kryocore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IBM is a US company, who has invested billions into technology that is not in use. They were the 1rst company to arrange individual atoms (spelling IBM). They made a processor that uses atoms as transistors. They don't use any of it in production, but probably will some day. I think that you underestimate many US companies with your statement.

  18. Re:Why automotive companies? by pavon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't you know? In Japan all cars transform into fighting robots! Being able to pilot a fighting robot is required of everyone who gets a drivers licence. My friend Mark once saw this giant moth just think about attacking his town and Fighting Robots chopped it head off just like that! I mean, with the restrictions on their official military, it's either that or have you country taken over giant monsters. It's an easy choice in my opinion.