Tom's Hardware Investigates Michael's Computers

cojsl writes "Tom's Hardware has an extensive article raising questions about Michael's Computers and their claims of a laptop with a "3DMark03 Average Score - 15,417"." It gets funnier as you go along.

Comments

Not in doubt, but....

[Space cowboy]

it surprised me that after all the work they went through, the conclusion is simply "make your own mind up". Now *that*'s being cautious!

Or maybe I'm just a cynic by nature....

Simon

Re:Not in doubt, but....

[_Sharp'r_]

Usually the weaker the evidence, the more someone tries to insist they ar right.

If they actually have and present the evidence, there is no need to spell it out for you.

Re:Not in doubt, but....

[Orgazmus]

And the coolness factor is of course way higher when you say it like that.
"And like everyone can see without us even telling you, the dudes are lame"

Re:Not in doubt, but....

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I wonder if it is because of the Hard OCP / "Phantom Console" issue.

I'm not convinced that Infinium Labs has any leg to stand on on that one though, I'm not convinced there is any libel, but they can still try to sue and harass. The Tom's writer is possibly just being CYA about it.

Re:Not in doubt, but....

[smittyoneeach]

I've heard it is said among lawyers:
If you've got the facts on your side, argue the facts,
if you've got the law on your side, argue the law,
and if you've neither, pound the table.
Into which category to put Michael, or SCO, is unclear.

Re:Not in doubt, but....

[Hiro Antagonist]

Indeed; those who lack evidence try and make up for it with panache. This is why none of the creationists, or the UFO-chasers, or the television psychics have ever managed to win the million-dollar challenge posted by the James Randi Educational Foundation. And before anyone screams 'conspiracy', remember that all one needs to do to win the prize, which is held in an escrow account, is present evidence of any paranormal phenomena which completely at odds with modern science. The procedures for doing so must be agreed upon by both parties, and the applicant is the one who designs the tests used to verify his-or-her claim, in order to prevent any steamrolling. All in all, a very fair prize. One which has been unclaimed for fourty years (IIRC).

Maybe Michael's Computers should try to claim the prize, what with the supernatural performance of their systems. ;)

As far as Michael's Hardware, just remember, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and at the very least, you should check first.

Re:Not in doubt, but....

[btwIANAL]

On the other hand Michael can now add... "Featured on Tom's Hardware" ... to his credentials

Re:Not in doubt, but....

[Hiro Antagonist]

Fire beatle?

One of them set themselves on fire? I mean, I know about John Lennon getting shot and all (why the FSCK couldn't they have taken out Yoko too?) Which one? Did he survive?

Oh, fire beetle. My mistake. ;) You could easily just have said 'human eye' or pointed to any other complex system or organism; the rules still apply, and you still see evidence that points to evolution. In the case of the fire beetle, all the tools required for it to produce a hot chemical spray can be found in other organisms: acid-resistant stomach linings, methane production, chambered toxin release, etc. The fire beetle is simply a novel combination of these things. One which had four billion or so years to work out the bugs; given the lifespan of these critters, that's about an equal number of generations.

I am not saying evolution is wrong, but to say that it IS absolutely correct would also be inaccturate, you can show that some things have evolved, and that humans have evolved to a point, but we cannot say with absolute certainty that humans evolved from apes.

We didn't; we evolved from earlier forms of humans, who in turn evolved from even more primitive forms, who in turn came from ape-like mammals that served as a common ancestor, and this is very-well proven, through a combination of genetic testing and osteological analysis.

Lucy is a good example; we know that she was around about three million years ago, and that other than her bipedal adaptations, she was very similar to modern apes -- small brain, curved tarsal bones, and so on. Continuing on through the austrolopithecines, you see two branches (gracile and robust); the gracile branch became homo erectus, which eventually led to modern man, and the robust branch eventually evolved into the neanderthals, which died out a few hundred thousand years ago.

It's a pretty clean, unbroken record, really, and there are even a few species along the line that have died out (like the Neanderthals) -- evolutionary dead-ends. The only reason we're around is because we were better suited to survive. And, yes, I'm oversimplifying all of this for the sake of being compact. *grin*

The guy posted processors and hard drives that DON'T EXIST. He only takes pay-pal. Hmmmm you would have to have some real FAITH to buy from him :-)

Or just be really gullible. ;)

Now I know...

[RobertB-DC]

Now I know where our friend Orlando Soto buys his computers.

Hmmm... has anyone ever actually seen "Michael Gonzales" and "Orlando Soto" together? Put glasses on this guy, and he looks an awful lot like this guy...

Lesson to learn:

[musingmelpomene]

Ok, kiddies, the important lesson of the day is: When you want to scam people into buying your product, try to advertise a product that exists. Then it'll always work. So...ummm...*shuffles feet*...who wants to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

Re:Lesson to learn:

[frodo from middle ea]

I do, as soon as I get my 10% cut of the 15 mil., from this really nice guy from nigeria whose uncle (the late military leader) who unfortunatey was killed.

Re:Lesson to learn:

[parkrrrr]

About that bridge thing, is free shipping to Europe included or extra?

The free shipping is extra.

Re:Lesson to learn:

[Bombcar]

Can you image how hard it was to actually sell the London Bridge? Probably the only reason the Arizona guy got it was that everyone else thought it was a scam.

Someone also sold the Eiffel tower for scrap.

Twice.

To the same company, I believe.

Re:Lesson to learn:

[musingmelpomene]

Oh yeah. I bought it. Would you like to buy it from me? Special deal, one time only, and only because the French are unpatriotic. $500 and it's yours. Free shipping.

Re:Lesson to learn:

[Bombcar]

Tell you what, ship it COD.

But if I don't get it within 2 weeks, you're going to get negative feedback. :)

Hee hee

[grub]

"Neighbors confirmed that Michael Gonzales used to live there, but moved out after a divorce."

Maybe his ex-wife was an unsatisfied early user?

Re:Hee hee

[EulerX07]

Yeah, the news on the grapevine is that is actual boot-up speed was nowhere near advertised, when it actually did bootup.

His 3D performance was also greatly exagerated. However she did admit that she never exceeded 15db when with him, so that part was correct.

Re:Hee hee

[Cheap Imitation]

Maybe his ex-wife was an unsatisfied early user?

Being "The World's Fastest" is not a good way to satisfy your wife, that's for sure....

Sociopaths

[DustMagnet]

Michael was very articulate and calm during the interview. He appears convinced of what he says and advertises.

Sociopaths are dangerous people. Tracking them down is fine, but be careful if you decide to tangle with one. Some will dedicate their life to revenge.

Re:Sociopaths

[Speare]

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Re:Sociopaths

[deacon]

Sheesh, talk about jumping the gun to get the noose and the tree ready!

Did you (or the moderators) even read the article you linked to?

To quote your article

" Although only a trained professional can make a diagnosis"

Yes, it's clear from the TomsHardware article that you do not want to buy a computer from this guy. Just as obvious, penis enlargment products do not work.

At the same time, Toms is slanting some of their article so the guy will seem even worse.

Toms discovers that Mike does NOT need a business license, and then later in the article makes a big deal that the guy does not have one. Duh!

Still, if you insist on labeling Mike with a psych. eval. based on inadequate data, perhaps you can identify with this one.

Re:Sociopaths

[Maestro4k]

• Sociopaths are dangerous people. Tracking them down is fine, but be careful if you decide to tangle with one. Some will dedicate their life to revenge.

I know a lot of people are probably going to say "but he's not a sociopath, just some guy running a scam" or something like that about your Sociopath remark (even though you provided a quite informative link) because in so many people's minds sociopath = homicidal maniac. However I believe you may have hit the nail very firmly on the head in this case. I can't imagine anyone that wasn't a true sociopath being able to so calmly answer this unprompted interview, do so on video (without advance notice as well) and not even break a sweat. Heck, a lot of "normal people" can't pass a lie detector test even if they're telling the truth. (A dirty little secret about them is that concern about what led to the polygraph (such as being accused of murder, etc) is enough to trigger a noticeable reaction to any questions relating to that subject -- irregardless of the answer. Basically you can answer yes or no and it register as a lie either way.)

I think the Tom's Hardware guys realized what you're saying as well, they had enough evidence to just really lay into this guy but if you read carefully you'll see an almost pained effort to stay unoffensive to Michael. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if interviewing the guy wasn't terrifying for them. That said, I hope that if everything is as bogus as it seems that someone can get him stopped.

There are some really strange things here though, Paypal is very sensitive to fraud, and even if they refused to allow chargebacks (they have been reported to just take the money out of your bank account if they get a chargeback), they more than likely would shut down a count that generated quite a few of them. However from the article and the screenshot it would appear his Paypal account is still quite valid. While his busines license isn't valid, it only expired in Januray IIRC, and it would be quite easy to overlook this, especially after having had a divorce and having to move (the notice might have missed him). I'm by no means defending Michael, from the info laid out I'd never buy a computer from the guy myself, but things like this always bug me. Perhaps I just have an inner preference to have things more black & white. :)

The moral of this story...

[Schlemphfer]

Never buy a computer from some guy named Michael. You're better off buying a Dell. Oh, wait.

I know...

[lukewarmfusion]

Michael must have come from the future, with his Windows XP 2004 and currently non-existant hardware! I bet you could haggle with him and get next year's Super Bowl winner, too.

Re:I know...

[Bobulusman]

I liked this part of his FAQ:

Q: When a client says "How can your systems be instant?"

A: Simply, because most operations that occur on other systems take time to load or render. We eliminated the so called "wait-time" a few years ago with inventing our TXK modeling for our Hard Drive systems. Where many systems today are built with just the "fastest" processor, we dive deeper into incorporating the true components that allow every application you run, to run at the fastest speed possible.

Bizarre.

Tom, Micheal?

[Enze6997]

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Michael's Computers investigates Tom's Hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Michael found that Tom's the stories are often riddled with errors and false claims that favour their advertisers.

That's what I call a fan!

[pjt33]

0.19 dB? A ticking watch is about 20dB, and it's a log scale.

Re:That's what I call a fan!

[OgGreeb]

The sales blurb for the "Michaels MX8" says "Now with 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 Surround sound at 180dB!"

The circa 1950's Chrysler civil defense siren , the world's loudest, peaks at 138dB. It can be heard piercingly at five miles distance. 180dB would be on the order of a small earthquake.

Re:That's what I call a fan!

[B5_geek]

I think he used the same tool to measure that I did as a kid.

I bought an SPL meter from Radio Shack so I could test how loud my car stereo got. The needle on the meter went to a max of 130Db. I was able to bury the needle on several occasions.

Considering the evidence that you have quoted there is no doubt in my mind that the meter was worthless.

My point: maybe he just has shitty testing equipment?

Re:That's what I call a fan!

[black_widow]

194 decibels, A-weighted, is equivalent to the saturn 5 rocket or 50lbs of TNT detonated 10 feet away.

194 decibels (RMS) sound-pressure-level approaches the atmospheric pressure level.

With an RMS value of 194 decibels, the peak SPL would modulate the atmospheric value entirely. That would make it the loudest possible...

194 Maximum possible (from atmospheric 14.7psi down to 0psi)
177 Record for car audio!
170 Shotgun blast up close
160 Perforation of eardrum
140 Jet Aircraft Taking Off
120 Human Threshold of Pain - 1 watt/sq. meter
120 Loud Rock Concert
110 Moderate rock concert, dance club
100 Motorcycle
-- extended listening above 85-90dB leads to hearing loss --
90 Lawnmower, loud home stereo
85 Jackhammer at 15 meters (50 feet)
80 Moderate home stereo, ringing telephone
75 Average City Street
70 Freeway traffic, TV audio
60 Normal Conversation
50 Large office background noise
40 Quiet office or residential area
30 Whisper at 3 meters (10 feet), Very soft music
20 "Silent" TV Studio, Whisper at 1 meter, Quiet living room
10 Soft rustling of leaves
0 Human threshold of hearing (youths)
(table from http://www.geocities.com/rf-man/db.html )

Re:That's what I call a fan!

[mytec]

With an RMS value of 194 decibels

Wow, RMS gets pretty loud ranting about GNU. :-)

Re:That's what I call a fan!

[sharkey]

You missed:

• 209 Mother-in-Law

Review doesnt go far enough

[onyxruby]

Its amazing how far something has to go for a business to be considered fraudulent. Is it possible to get warnings like this before they end up in court or handcuffs? If all of this investigation only garners a buyer beware warning, what does it take to get a do not buy warning? I can understand the aversion to calling out fraud, but THG can only build the credibility by taking a stand and telling people don't buy from these guys.

I'm not trying to be overly harsh on THG. I applaud them for being willing to investigate like they did, the industry can only benefit by removing fraudsters. A few bad mechanics have given most mechanics reputations that they don't deserve, and the computer industry needs to avoid this.

Review sites, remember that your job is as much about telling people what they should not buy as it is about what they should. How many people stopped respecting PC World (once upon a time highly respected) after they endorsed Windows Me?

Re:Review doesnt go far enough

[Malc]

Maybe THG is afraid of ending up in court themselves. Even if they are right, do they really want to spend their time and money when to most of us what they've stated is clear and good enough? This is really just a sad statement about the paranoid corporate climate and litigous nature of the modern American world.

Re:Review doesnt go far enough

[TheRealFixer]

It would be nice to see "businesses" like this shut down and the scam artist in handcuffs, but more often than not, people like him are VERY good at disappearing, relocating, and starting up the whole scam again.

I had a run-in with a retailer at a computer show some years ago who was substituting sub-standard parts and pre-loading Windows 98 on his boxes, advertising them as having Windows 98 included, and then not including the Win98 CD. When I purchased a computer from him for someone else, and then came across a problem with that PC that required the CD, I called to get a copy sent to me, and the retailer refused, said I had to pay $50 to get the CD. I realized quickly that this was a scam he was running, and no matter what, he would not give me the CD. I actually called the Microsoft Piracy Hotline (I've never done that since, and normally I would have just dropped it, but he made me irritated enough with his attitude) and they thanked me, and promised to go after him.

Next computer show a couple months later, same retailer is there, same scam, different "company" name and different location & phone number. These guys thrive on being mobile. They're like cockroaches. Shine the light on them, and they disappear for a little while, but they still come back.

Re:My benchmark

[Tweaker_Phreaker]

You seem to be confusing 3DMark03 with 3DMark01. The system you described would be lucky to get '5000' in 3DMark03.

My review of Tom's Hardare (read on)...

[gosand]

Here is my review of Tom's Hardware. I think that they are extremely.... Next ...

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And now...

[Anonymous Coward]

He'll add "As mentioned on Slashdot" to his page to add to the hype...

Re:Welcome to the internet...

[MooseByte]

"it's basically the best way to make money, next to taking advantage of lonely guys (pornsites, strippers) and taking advantage of lazy people (remote control, clapper)"

Tell me about it! I made an absolute fortune off my clapper-controlled porn site!

Which also finally answered the rhetorical question, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

easy foolery

[British]

Back in '96 I made a fake web page(on my university account) that sold hacker/phreaker gear. Red boxes, blue boxes etc. I did my best to make it look legit. I also had some more obscure items, like Game Boy cartridges that did red box tones, and other fun things I could think of.

Mind you the product drawings were almost MS paint quality.

One of the items I sold was a "katana" laptop computer, with CPU speeds about twice of the fastest CPUs of the day. Also, it said you could buy the laptop in person at our outlet store in New Tokyo.

Needless to say regardless of how amateur the page looked, I got emails every day from people who believed it. Most of them wanted the price on the katana. To think if I was a shyster I could have been swimming in credit card numbers.

Re:easy foolery

[British]

I was just bored. I wondered to see what sort of response I would get. Mind you, this was in the early days of the web. More detail here:

http://british.nerp.net/commentary/alburt.html

Articles broken up into separate pages

[Imperator]

Why do sites insist on splitting articles into separate pages?

[next page]

It's even worse when the pages are short.

Hell, they often have only a few paragraphs per page.

[next page]

Some sites are kind enough to at least offer a "print article" link.

[next page]

Others don't.

[next page]

It's obvious what they're trying to do.

[next page]

They want to generate ad revenue.

[next page]

[next page]

But really, the joke's on them.

[next page]

Because I use Privoxy.

[next page]

And so they don't get any ad money.

[next page]

But still have to spend money on the extra bandwidth it costs...

[next page]

...to split up the article into separate pages.

Re:Welcome to the internet...

[enjo13]

[quote]it's basically the best way to make money, next to taking advantage of lonely guys (pornsites, strippers) and taking advantage of lazy people (remote control, clapper[/quote]

Uhm, isn't the point to provide something useful for people (creating value for them)? So strippers, pornsites, remote controls, and the clapper don't take advantage of people.. they simple provide a good or service that people find valuable.

Scamming people is a whole different story.. This guy is a scammer, he doesn't appear to even have a PRODUCT.

Makes You Think -ResellerRatings.com

[N8F8]

I sometimes wonder the reason I've been so lucky buying things online. I've gotten some pretty good deals from cheesy looking web storefronts. One thing to consider next time is to check out a store's ratings at http://www.resellerratings.com/

Software?

[Ironclad2]

Do the computers come bundled with Duke Nukem Forever?

Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC?

[Graelin]

Alienware comes to mind. Their machines are pretty cool. Lots of high-end equipment that is pretty to look at, but the prices are a touch high.

If you really want the uber game machine you probably want to build it yourself. Maximum performance doesn't ALWAYS have to cost you stability if you buy the right parts from the right vendors.

You're right about local stores, at least in my area, they are very delayed. I can usually order the latest online and get it in the mail before any local chains get it in stock. As far as I can tell, the local mom n' pop stores are always the most cautious to get the latest hardware. Try the gamer franchises, like EB Games. Best Buy, Circuit City, CrapUSA never have a good enough selection of products. (They might only sell PNY Nvidia cards, when you really want the Hercules.)

Re:Welcome to the internet...

[BJH]

That's easy: FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP...

Oh, you said clapping. Sorry, I don't know.

3DMark2001 and 2003

[Pidder]

15,000 is a very reasonable score for a decent system in the 2001 version where the world record is a few points over 30,000. It's very likely that the marketing guy just made a simple mistake.

3dMark2003 is a whole different ball game however, and a score of 15,000 is clearly impossible. The world record is just over 10,000 points (trivia: made by finnish overclocker 'Macci' with a p4 3.2 EE clocked to 4.5 ghz and a Radeon 9800XT clocked extremely high).

Extreme overclocking has gone a long way. Macci cools both his cpu and gpu with a cascade system which is two phase change coolers (like the Vapochill) connected together in some cool way I don't have the technical know-how to describe. It cools both his cpu and gpu to -100C.

Re:3DMark2001 and 2003

[Pidder]

Haha forget about what I said about "simple mistake". I have now RTFA. That guy is a just a massive tool.

Re:3DMark2001 and 2003

[LurkerXXX]

Right. He said 3dMark2003 instead of 3dMark2001.

And he claimed it was the 'World's Fastest Tower' which it wouldn't be with the 3dMark2001 score.

And he said .15 DB instead of 15 DB.

And he said 500GB Hard drive instead of 250 GB Hard drive.

And he said he was in business from 1996-2000 at one location instead of 2000-2004.

And he calimed places had reviewed his machine that didn't.

And he seemed to claim he had won awards that he hadn't.

And he seemed to claim people were customers who weren't.

And.... seeing a trend yet?

Simple mistake??? right...
Oh, I've got some loveley swampland in Florida that you might be interested in! I'll make you a great deal!

See his clients list?

[Judg3]

Boening, US Marines, US Air Force, Coke, City of Orange, etc etc.

How much do you want to bet that those 'clients' are his in only the loosest sense - someone that works for the USAF bought a PC, so now the whole USAF is a client. Someone from boeing bought a PC, and had it delivered to their work address - all of a sudden Boeing as a whole is now a client hehe.

Re:See his clients list?

[Dun Malg]

How much do you want to bet that those 'clients' are his in only the loosest sense - someone that works for the USAF bought a PC, so now the whole USAF is a client.

You're probably right. I was particularly amused by a quote in his FAQ praising his waranty service, attributed to the US Navy. Not a rep of the Navy, but the Navy itself. Must have been a good warranty for the whole Navy to say it liked it. Of course, even if we assume it was quote from a Navy person working in procurement, it's clearly bogus:

"...I only choose Michael's Computers over any other company because it's far better to know the maker and someone you can trust and is a Christian."

Someone representing the US Navy is about as likely to say they chose a vendor because he's christian as they are likely to say they chose a vendor because they're "trustworthy white folk, not scheming negroes or devious chinamen".

I Have One

[O_D_Evans]

The notebooks featured on Michael's site are actually Clevo (http://www.clevo.com.tw/) notebooks. They are sold in the US under the brand name Sager, available from (among others) pctorque.com. I have the 17" model (tricked out w/ P4 3.2, 1gig RAM, ATI 9600 128MB, DVD burner etc etc) and it *is* bloody quick, but not that quick (about 20 sec to boot XP to usable state). I got it to run 3D CAD/CAM, which it does, like a dream. The only downside of this is it also runs Q3A amazingly well too, so I never actually get any work done ;).

I have a Michael's PC at home

[Strange Ranger]

A little background: About a year and half ago I found myself needing/wanting a monster PC, P4 2.8, 5 WD drives, 4 in a raid 10 array for photography, music, video, etc. Gotta protect all those thousands of pictures. For fun I also wanted a gaming config as well, Radeon 9700 Pro, DDR 400, etc. Long story short, I wanted a top of the line Voodoo PC or Alienware, or Hypersonic, custom built for me, not built by me. But in NO WAY did I want the silly paint job or the price that came with it.

I also do enough hardware fiddling at work that I just didn't want to deal with it at home (busy + lazy). I wanted Uber Box to show up at my door. Go ahead poke fun, I wanted it, I could get it, so I got it.

Back then his site was much less over-the-top, he had a 7 year warranty, etc. I dealt with Michael over the phone and we came to a price which was quite agreeable for the parts and labor. I knew the pricegrabber price for every part in there, MB, sticks of memory, etc. The spec sheet he sent was right on.

The PC is great, nice build, no widgets, no crapware, XP Pro with all MS-Phone-Home-ware removed or disabled, all those services in XP that most of us know to turn off, he had them off, etc, etc. When I had trouble with the Firewire ports, he walked me through the pin-outs on the Audigy 2, when that didn't work due to meager support from Creative, he overnighted me a firewire card. He has been outstanding as far as customer service is concerned, I'm quite happy with the "uber-box", yes it's over the top, but i like it that way and in a few years I won't be aching for a complete replacement.

I always ignored his marketing. He's a VERY exhuberant fellow in person, and it shows! HA. He's a one-man-show. He knows how to build a nice PC, and is willing to do it, where I am not. I disapprove of the direction his marketing has taken (who wouldn't). Because of it, I've taken to sending folks here and elsewhere who want a PC built for them.

It's sad because if you remove the marketing aspect, and of course haggle on price, he DOES do just as good a job as the Alienware / Voodoo PC folks. Actually better because I hate that tricked out case stuff, and I have yet to hear of Alienware calling or emailing you back in 5 minutes with a fix or a tracking number to a free replacement part you haven't asked for yet.

Just goes to show that running a [Widget] business takes a lot more than being a [Widget] expert. You've got to have your marketing, order processing, legal angles, etc., all figured out as well.

Maybe this "expose" will help him improve. I wish him luck. He's a real nice guy.

Re:I have a Michael's PC at home

[0x0d0a]

Hi, Mike! Good to have you drop in!

I've got one of their desktops

[supergiovane]

Not only it achieves a stunning 17108 in 3DMark '03, but it also came bundled with Duke Nukem Forever, running at 138fps at full details.

Brooklyn Bridge, I DO own it

[johnmig]

My great-grandfater actually bought the Brooklyn Bridge (OK so he paid for it). This was about 1910 or there-abouts. He was living in Little Italy with his sons and daughter. They were out making a living, by being sand-hogs (digging the subways for those of you who don't know) or tailoring/seamstressing, but Great-Grandpa wasn't working, evidently he got out of practice while still in the Old Country and never really got back into the swing of it (that's a separate story). So while wandering about the town, he comes into the proverbial huckster selling the Brooklyn Bridge. As this is a limited-time offer, he has to put the money down right away, i.e. before talking to his sons who have a better command of the language and know about this particular con. So that night, over the family dinner table, he say to his brood that their money troubles are over, he's just bought the bridge outside the window for $500. All they have to do is put up toll booth and they are set. At this point the kids pick up their jaws from the table and figure out how they can get Pop out of the City pronto. The next morning, they go to the train station, go to the end of the line, and find a place to move the family. So that's why my relatives live where they do. i figure out that I can tell this story, any gullibiity genes involved have been diluted 8-fold by know, so I'm probably OK.

Re:Pulled Punches

[harrkev]

I am certain that if you were to purchase one of his computers and have it shipped to Tom's Hardware, that they would be more than happy to review and benchmark it in short order. I would even expect a new speed record for how fast they can get the benchmark up.

Reputable companies often send hardware to web sites to review. If you have vaporware or "scamware", why would you voluntarily send it off for review?

I read enough to realize that I would be a fool to even give him the first dime to see if his claims were even true. If I have the money (which I sadly don't), the burden of proof is on the vendor to convince me that I need to give it to him. I don't owe any vendor anything, even the benefit of the doubt. Trust is something that is earned, not given out freely.

Does NOT Sell to the Navy

[goldspider]

The U.S. Navy has an exclusive infrastructure contract with EDS. The program is called the Navy and Marine Corps Intranet (NMCI). I should know, I work for the Navy and have to deal with the crap EDS sold us on a daily basis.

This Michael guy is a 100% liar.

Don't Forget

[starcraftsicko]

How about "Featured on Slashdot"