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Opera 7 for Mac OS X Preview Released
apetime writes "A preview of Opera 7 for Mac OS X has finally been released. The new version brings Mac Opera up to date with the latest Windows and Linux releases, including the Presto rendering engine, Opera Mail client, Opera Chat client for IRC, and integration with Mac OS X's Keychain and Address Book. After fears of cancellation when Safari came out, this is great news for recent switchers and Opera fans, and another great browser choice for Mac users."
Competition is always good... we can all see what happens to innovation when people say "what good is Netscape when IE is already on my computer?"
If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
I'm not saying the developers aren't providing a useful product, it just raises a question in my mind of how worthwhile it is.
Looking at this release, it's not a bad program, but it just feels... bulky. The interface isn't remarkably clean... like a large number of crossplatform programs, it's a sort of bastard, unnatural amalgam of design ideas that don't sit very well with me, at least.
In addition, I continue to not understand the point of writing one application to do several tenuously-linked tasks. Safari, Mail and Address Book are all separate apps, as an example. It's cleaner to provide well-defined applications to do certain functions, and integrate them through communications interfaces than it is to just stick functions X, Y and Z into one ball.
Now 'a days innovation is coming from Mozilla - not Netscape or IE.
Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart
Take, for example, Slashdot itself. Try viewing it in several different browsers. Everyone I know find that Opeara and IE tie for first place in making the site look good, with Mozilla/Netscape 6+ as a close second, but Konqueror as a distant third.
Opera, besides its excellent rendering engine, also has the tabbed interface working in its favor. Sure Mozilla has this too, but Opera lets you reopen the browser after a crash or application close and have all the pages that were open at the time of the crash or close. This is a lifesaver at times, for example when your cpu cooler dies and the system overheats, causing it to halt. When you repair the system and return it to operation, you can reopen Opera and have all the pages you were looking at before brought back without having to manually reopen them or hunt for them.
I'll take Opera and Mozilla over the others any day.
Now can at last I can do exactly what I could already do with a slightly different interface.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Opera is pretty crappy, costs money, and renders poorly and slowly. Gimme a cocoa browser any day, it looks a ton better. And exactly why should i get excited about all those new features? If i wanted a bloated browser like that i'd use Mozilla, its free. Opera needs to take a look at what Mozilla is doing, and forget about a mail, irc, etc client inside their browser, we dont need it.
(There is a knock at my door. A SCO process server has handed me a cease and desist order to the effect that, in fact, SCO does have a monopoly on innovation. I stand corrected.)
Kudos to Opera for not bailing on the Mac in the face of competition from Apple. Must be nice knowing you have bigger cojones than Adobe.
Take, for example, Slashdot itself. Try viewing it in several different browsers. Everyone I know find that Opeara and IE tie for first place in making the site look good, with Mozilla/Netscape 6+ as a close second, but Konqueror as a distant third.
First flaw... you're saying it's possible for /. to look good. It's easy to use once you figure it out, no question, but the designers completely ignored aesthetics (which I'm fine with.)
Second, more important flaw... IE, Mozilla, Opera, and Safari render /. exactly the same for me, with the only difference being that I don't see ads while using Safari. Safari handles all the pages I visit well enough to certainly never think there's a flaw in the way it's doing things.
Opera, besides its excellent rendering engine, also has the tabbed interface working in its favor.
As does Safari...
Opera lets you reopen the browser after a crash or application close and have all the pages that were open at the time of the crash or close.
I've used this feature in the past and hated it. To begin with Safari crashes so rarely its essentially never, and on top of that I'm not sure I want to have everything I was looking at open automatically for the next user if I was too lazy to close all the windows before quitting. Sure, some people will say I was looking at pr0n or whatever, but there is plenty of private stuff accessable through a browser (email, for one). This is a feature that's nice for a small group, definitely not for me.
I'll take Opera and Mozilla over the others any day.
Safari isn't perfect, there's room to grow yet. But the only one of your arguments that held water is a niche feature, and you completely ignored rendering speed, actual browser speed (Mozilla can be downright sluggish... Firefox is pretty nice though), how well it conforms to Apple HIG and whether or not it uses the OS graphic libraries (I'm an OS X themer, so that's important to me and everyone else who applies system themes).
After taking the time to look through the new Opera for a good comparison to Safari so I could write this, I've become more convinced than ever that I picked the right browser as my default.
If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
Though I'm not entirely sure what the Opera 7 browser brings to the Mac world as I'm mostly a PC user, nor could I say how it stacks up against Safari, but I can vouch for it's performance on Windows.
1. It's VERY customizable. Aside from the hundreds of skins you can download... Buttons, toolbars, panels, etc., can be dragged anywhere you want. There's even a window you can open with all the possible buttons that you can drag'n drop onto where you want them on thr browser. This may not be as much of a selling point for Mac users (i.e. iTunes brushed metal look vs. Winamp's nearly unlimited possibilities for it's GUI/appearance), but being able to alter the browser to fit my needs, instead of having to learn to adapt to the browser's limitations, was very much appreciated.
2. Want to search for something on google? Type "g query" in the toolbar, and you're here. Amazon? "z query". Ebay? "e query". I can barely program, but even an idiot like me figured out how to alter a few lines of code so "t query" gave me the results at thesaurus.com for a word I needed synonyms for.
3. DAMN GOOD implementation of mouse gestures--which of course are highly customizable. I can open windows in the background, open links in new windows, go back a couple pages, with the quickest of movements. I barely even touch the navigation buttons.
4. This is what F12 quickly lets you do.
5. It's frickin' FAST.
6. I can turn off images/stylesheets with a quick click.
7. Userful for when web designing: Opera shows current size of window in it's title bar. Also, checking if a page's code is validated can be accessed by hitting ctrl-alt-v.
I'll second that. Competition will keep Apple on it's toes so they'll keep improving Safari. Safari is my favorite browser on the Mac now, but I'm glad there are other options.
It just isn't very exciting. Between Safari, Camino, Firefox and Omniweb there aren't any browsing needs that remain for me to have filled...and Opera looks like boiled crap on the Mac.
I dunno about Opera being better than Adobe. You forget that Opera whined about Safari when it came out.
That's why I said I don't. As with everyone, my opinions just as valid or invalid as any other. I was commenting on how it FEELS, and I FEEL that it FEELS uncomfortable. I looked at the features, and none of them do anything for me. In addition, customizing the interface to look like other things does nothing for me. There's nothing unfair about what I said. It's all opinions.
True but adobe quit.
And don't you remember the 80's? Winners never quit.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Telling someone why you don't like what they do is constructive, even if it's in very touchy-feely ways.
The difference: Opera 7 for OS X is available. Adobe Premiere Pro for OS X: eh, not so much.
How did you get safari to block to ads for slashdot? They're still there for me.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
And here I always sat thinking that /. was meant to look shitty.
Goodbye Opera, Maybe I'll see you again when you hit 8?
I hate Grammar Nazi's
Quick hack:
add "127.0.0.1 ads.osdn.com" to your hosts-file
Well, I never said /. was beautiful, just that it looks better in some browsers than others.
The entire OS including all applications should do this. Even with a Gig of ram, several minutes to hours could be simply saved to disk, compressed. And I am sure that I am taking a simplistic, non elegant approach. I doubt this is how Opera does this.
Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
For those wanting an *exhaustive* (and yet likely incomplete) description of what it has to offer, look here.
Oh, and the trolls whining about bloat should get a clue. It's only 3-4MB, browser, mail, and everything else included. It's one of the least bloated apps I've ever seen (possible exception of windows/total commander). When your browser alone is twice that (firebird/fox/?), I don't see what grounds you have to complain.
And while I'm at it, although Opera *is* ad-or-payware, might I mention that it does its advertising in the best way possible: a context sensitive Google text ad in the toolbar. Not annoying at *all*, and it can even be useful occasionally.
And I could go on, and on, and on. But I'll just mention that the default configuration (both UI and otherwise) is halfway braindead (popup blocking *off* by default, when it's one of the main selling points? wtf?), so just make sure to customize it (which is rather simple, and takes only a few minutes).
And since this is a Mac forum, some good OSX-esque skins are Safrad (which I use myself, not because I want to emulate a mac, but because it actually looks good), Sofa King, and Lars Kleinschmidt's various OSX and iMac skins. They're available here. (Oh, and by the way, this is a preview release, and there is supposedly a new default skin in the works, just so you know.)
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
Well, I'm not saying /. looks beautiful. I'm just saying it looks better in some browsers than in others.
I can tell a difference easily between IE, Mozilla, Opera, etc. Most notable are differences in color, although most people tell me I'm just imagining it. But I can also tell a difference in the way the browsers render the table code /. uses to accomplish the layout.
Rendering speed is irrelevant for me--I'm on dialup so I don't notice a rendering speed difference because it takes forever to download the page anyway.
As for saving the open tabs, I find it extremely useful as the power in my area is prone to frequent half-second outages. And the theming and HIG don't bother me in the least--I don't care how the UI looks as long as it lets me get the job done. To each his own, though.
How did you get safari to block to ads for slashdot? They're still there for me.
Download and install PithHelmet. It's free, it's easy, it's effective. I don't even see flash ads very often anymore.If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
I use Opera at work on my Windows box, and use Safari at home on my G5. I admit, I'm probably going to change to Opera when I get home. Opera is a lot bigger than Safari. Safari is a brilliant implementation of a simple, functional browser. I think they should stick with that, and NOT follow Opera's example. That said, I've been using Opera since version 5 something, and I'm having a hard time giving it up.
I can drag and arrange the tabs however I want. Opera has an inline find in page facility, mouse gestures, and a handy feature for paging through galleries where the images follow a simple incremental progression or have a 'next' or similar recognizable link in the page. The tab implementation is generally superior, I find. When I say that I don't want things to open in a new window in Opera, I mean it, and it works. I have that option checked in Safari, but it still opens new windows all the time. I NEVER want another window popping up under ANY circumstances. If I need a new window, I'll open it up myself, manually. I'm VERY fond of the tab state being saved on close, because I always use the same tabs when I first start up. (I've faked it out in Safari by making a bookmark folder that I open when I start up the browser, but I always lose the 'temporary' URLs that I haven't quite finished with yet, and I don't like saving temporary bookmarks in a seperate folder.) Opera is quite fast at rendering pages, at least under Windows. Oh, and provided that Opera maintains its key configurability, it'll definitely have a leg up there on Safari. (My outlook on that is mostly due to me wanting Opera-like keybindings in Safari. When I type 'Cmd-N', I want a new TAB, not a new window.
I'll probably use Safari here and there, but I'm pretty much stuck on Opera. I'll give OmniWeb 5 another shot when it gets more stable. Trying out the betas is fun right up to the moment where everything crashes for the fifth time.
Hopefully, Opera will be reasonably stable. If it is, I'll be happy to use it again under OSX.
I can drag and arrange the tabs however I want. Opera has an inline find in page facility, mouse gestures, and a handy feature for paging through galleries where the images follow a simple incremental progression or have a 'next' or similar recognizable link in the page.
Mouse gestures for all cocoa apps (including Safari) can be done for free with Cocoa Gestures. I love it. Arranging tabs, along with tons of other features, can be done with Safari Extender or Saft, $10 each (buy both of them and that's still half the price of Opera). Inline finding in a page... try Cmd-F.
As for paging through galleries, that does sound nice and I can't think of a Safari equivilant. However it also sounds like I wouldn't have a need to use it most of the time and forget to use it the rest of the time.
When I say that I don't want things to open in a new window in Opera, I mean it, and it works. I have that option checked in Safari, but it still opens new windows all the time.
I completely agree, I'm the same way. Saft (link above) has excellent window management prefs, including forcing all windows into tabs in one window, or getting rid of the menu bar and going full screen, etc etc.
Oh, and provided that Opera maintains its key configurability, it'll definitely have a leg up there on Safari. (My outlook on that is mostly due to me wanting Opera-like keybindings in Safari. When I type 'Cmd-N', I want a new TAB, not a new window.
You can bind keys using ReKey (donationware) or the Keyboard Shortcuts tab in System Preferences > Keyboard and Mouse. I actually have Cmd-N set to create new tab and Cmd-Shift-N for new window (which is normaly for new bookmark folder, so I bound that to Cmd-Ctrl-N because I never use the keyboard for making new bookmarks).
There are of course advantages to things being built into Opera rather than requiring 3rd party plugins like for Safari. They all fit in so well though that after I finish installing them (5 minutes of time lost... damn) they might as well be stock features. The plugin route is also cheaper than just buying Opera.
If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
You don't have to buy Opera. I haven't. I like the ads, and I click on them now and then. They've managed to get contextual text ads, and google searches into the ad bar, so it's actually kind of handy sometimes. They're even less obtrusive than in windows.
/. to reload every 15 minutes, and every time I check, there's new news. It's a minor feature, but I appreciate it. It's even better now that it works on a tab-by-tab basis. I have several tabs that automatically load themselves at different times. (In the early implementation, everything had to reload at the same time, or you could only reload one tab...it's actually useful now.)
2 things:
1) You misunderstand what I mean by 'inline find'. I don't want a popup panel so that I can type what I'm looking for, I want the search to find items AS I type. If I'm looking for the word 'encyclopedia' on a page, in Opera, I use the inline find, and it's found the word by the time I've typed as far as 'enc'. With Safari, and most other search dialogues, I have to type the whole word, or hope that when I type 'enc' in the panel, I find what I'm looking for right away. Actually, I'm probably terming this incorrectly. Opera's find isn't just 'inline' it's also incremental.
2) 'Reload page every n minutes'. For news and weather sites, I love this feature. I just set
Like I said, I love and appreciate Safari for what it is, a small fast browser. It's light on the bloat, but does a lot, which I can respect. I've gotten to Opera and all the little conveniences that it provides, so I'm going to stick with it, even though I realize that in comparison it's an overly complex monstrosity.
Since the HTML spec doesn't specify how to render invalid code, I'm not surprised.
Phillip
I have to use Opera for the now until i can figure out why the firefox keeps crashing and it's the only other browser out there with mouse gestures. I have to say that the new version looks much better than the old. I still mis my fox, though.
http://www.geocities.com/david_garamond/opera7-ran ts.html.
I'm getting tired of the whole 'Mac user as second class citizen' thing, having to patiently wait for features found in Windows versions of software to get ported over to my platform.
I mean really, where the hell's my Bork?
Finally Opera 7 is out for my apple as well!
Been testing it... looks very, very good!
I hear some people here dissing it, but IMO
it's way better than safari and the various
mozilla-variants.
Opera lets you reopen the browser after a crash or application close and have all the pages that were open at the time of the crash or close. By default, Opera has a startup window that lets you choose between starting with your home page, no pages, at the same place you left off last time, or opening a session you've saved (and yes, you can do that). You can easily turn this behaviour off by clicking a check box at the bottom, and it won't ask you. If the browser crashes, however (which it does rarely), it will show the startup window with continuing your last session as the default option, which is exactly what I want it to do. If you're paranoid about it showing your private data, then just make sure to re-open and close the browser normally if it crashes.
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
- The ability to re-order tabs. In Opera you can drag and drop tabs
- The ability to re-open a browser window with the same tabs it had before it was closed. I frequently hit command-Q instead of command-W, and end up closing Safari instead of the current window.
- The user/author mode toggle in Opera. Some people seem to think that making your background colour as close as possible to your text colour is a good idea. In Opera, a single button press can switch to black-on-white.
I'll probably try this version of Opera, but I'm not sure that the benefits will out-weight the fact that it doesn't properly follow the HIGs and has a very cluttered UI.I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I bought one of the most expensive machines from Apple, upgraded to latest "Panther" etc, now using latest Safari....
Man I tell you, its the only app in OS X I try to stay away. If Opera guys fix Java 1.3.x lockdown issue, I will buy it as I did in my windows days.
Yes, Apple codes great stuff, completely "pro" but believe even not giving user chance to use other engine rather than Google makes me mad.
The point is, as we like Apple, OS X we don't HAVE TO like Safari. I am one of them.