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eBay Fraud Vigilantes
firstadopter.com writes "New York Times (free registration needed) is reporting that users are sick of internet fraud on eBay. With lack of help from the company, they are taking the law into their own hands and closing down auctions they think are obvious scams."
Reg Free Link
...and I couldn't find any "Viglanties".
I did get a super deal on my new compter, though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795846600&category=52476
***Please note, this auction is not selling the electronics themselves,we're selling electronic book packages that get you listed on a revolving list at our website. For list information and any other questions please visit our webpage @ www.revbuys.com--$220.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795844320&category=52476
**You are not buying the actual item, you are buying a link to a website where you can obtain the item for around a $250 US dollars. Link also includes lots of other good deals on nice electronics** $5.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795281687&category=52476
Please Read Auction Carefully. Winner will recieve information on where they can buy an Alienware Area-51 Extreme for only 275$. This is perfectly legal and I am usuing mine right now. Only one Alienware 275$ computer per household, so you can see why I am not selling the computers, but I am working on that.--$49.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795708246&category=40176
Please Read Description Carefully Before You Bid! you are not buying any electronics in this auction. Here are some examples of the amazing deals you will get upon winning this auction:
Products:
JL Audio 10w7 Subwoofer: $100
Sony DVD/CD Changer: $100
Sony Motorized indash 7" LCD: $100
Exhaust Systems from $50
NOS Kits: $100
Body Kits: $100
Playstation 2: $40
Video Games: $20
Gateway 42" Plasma TV: $200
Sony DVD Dream Surround System: $100
Sony Digital Camcorder: $100
40GB Apple iPod: $115
Compaq iPaq PDA: $50
Panasonic Portable DVD Player: $50
Alienware Desktop or Laptop: $275
Sony VIAO Desktop: $150
Sony VIAO Laptop: $100
AND MANY MANY MANY MORE!!!!
Shipping is absolutely free!, If you have any questions, please feel free to email us at http://TankDoggSC@aol.com $3.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795726979&category=52476
The item for sale isnt the real PC.the highest bidder will recieve the link to the site where you can purchase it for 160/275$.WHOEVER SAID ''THIS ISNT A REAL PC JUST A BUNCH OF LINKS'' MEANS THEY DID NOT READ THIS. $5.50-6 bids
C:\>
Following is my opinion only:
Don't use paypal's "withdraw from bank account" option. Use the credit card option. If something goes wrong and you go past 30 days - your are screwed. My experience is that Paypal (an ebay company) is the worst in getting problems resolved.
www.paypalsucks.com
About time somebody did something useful. Not like eBay has done anything. With problems like this running rampant over eBay, I wonder what kind of future the company has. Many users are already abandoning the service in favor of other means of purchase. I think people have realized that eBay, with scams, high shipping costs, and long waiting periods before getting a product, is often more expensive and less convenient than just purchasing the product at the store.
Every windows user is a sadomasochist.
...but more often than not, it's the banks that are watching out for suspicious things. The one time someone tried to pay me with stolen credit cards, it was the bank that alerted me (thankfully before I sent the laptop).
Really, what should be happening is that eBay should cooperate as much as possible with the banks/credit companies, and that would take care of a lot of fraud then and there.
libertarianswag.com
...the clever people who've sold things like "genuine air guitars" and "nothing".
Half the fun of e-bay is the really bizarre stuff.
The Dalai Llama .sig available for purchase: $100,000 USD -ebay auction #66666. Buyer pays shipping from Andorra.
This
My sig could be your sig!
How are these scams? They are up front about what they are selling, information.
the advertising is a little misleading, but that can be said about any advertising for almost anything. when was the last time you ate a burger that looked as good as it did in the adverts (or saw a girl that looked like an advert girl for that matter)
This is more in the category of preying on the hopelessly gullible and exploiting their stupidity, rather than scam. Less like nigerian 419, more like religion.
Many forums have a link right on the post that allows reporting of improper material. Ebay could use this feature.
I've found questionable sales, usually someone asks me "Hey, look at the deal", but when I've looked for a way to report it. Zip nothing. They did not list any contact in safeharbour for this.
Hell, it took way too much time to find the link to report the phish emails I got last year.
Yes, it will mean more overhead, but that's what it's going to take if Ebay expects people to continue to use the site. Allowing a group of moderators that can flag obvious problems will help.
Once someone was selling a car headlight modification they didn't have. The way they were busted was rather unique-- they posted pictures (hosted off-site, of course) of a car that wasn't theirs.
The person who owned the site saw the traffic coming from the ebay page. He then proceeded to change the images to one insulting the scammer in a very something awful-esque way, and photoshopped eyes over the car headlights. It was hilarious-- anyone have a link to it?
---
Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.
You make a very fair point, but unfortunately the sites they link to are near always scams run by the people eBaying the links. Several times at work people have told me they're on a list to get x, y or z item cheaper than we are selling it - I enquire what site the list is on and type it into the browser only to find it's mysteriously disappeared off the web. Having said that, if the person selling it doesn't own the site in question then they are not in the wrong since they may earnestly belive that all of the people will recieve their items at 5% of retail value.
You're absolutely right. So they should have their items moved to a section dedicated to sales of information, not actual electronics, and label their auctions accordingly. If the information doesn't provide the user with the ability to get a cheap system like these listings claim, then I would submit that it is a scam.
the advertising is a little misleading, but that can be said about any advertising for almost anything.
Again, you have a good point. These listings, when you see the item titles and parts of the description, are very misleading.
when was the last time you ate a burger that looked as good as it did in the adverts (or saw a girl that looked like an advert girl for that matter)
I can't remember when I ate anything that was as good as the ads.
C:\>
Stop bidding on items from Andora and Romania. A little common sense goes a long way.
its usually pretty easy to spot: only takes western union, item is new in box for absurdly low price, eithe rmultiple auctions or a "private auction". You used to tell by low feed back but its getting so that can be a misleader. You send them an e-mail and it gets answered during romanian daylight hours.
My favorite gambit is to ask them some absurd question that makes no sense like is this the power book that had the DVI fibrulator? They will answer "yes". Ask them if they take paypal and they dont answer.
I have to say that for all the problems and accusations about pay-pal, it is a hallmark of an honest seller.
E-bay claims a low fraud rate, but I think that is on a per-sale basis (most fruads dont result in sales, and there are many many honest auctions for $1.99 baseball cards, etc...). On a per dollar basis I'd bet it looks bad for e-bay. And certainly if you restrict the search to high vlaue commondity items i'd bet they average around fifty percent. E-bay needs to get sued and sued hard for knowing letting this go on.
Some lawyer should go get a job ther coverty, find out what they do internally to prevent this, then sue the shit out of them for negligence.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The reason people pay to use eBay rather than setup their own auction script on their web site is because eBay is providing a regulated marketplace, one where eBay makes the rules and enforces them to prevent fraudulent activities from affecting buyers and sellers.
If eBay can't get a grip on their fraud problems, then the door will be wide open for another marketplace to challenge them.
Here I was auctioning off evidence/information on whereabouts of WMDs in Iraq when people got all huffy and decided to shut it down. I nearly got some dude named Dubya bidding oodles of cash for the info but got shutdown before bidding was over.
Why can't you vigilantes just mind your own biz, damn it!!!
Yo, it's a joke -- no need to start a super-secret file on me.
I have had to (more than once!) dispute a charge on a CC I used on PayPal because they were trying to screw me out of my money (or the product). The PayPal folks wouldn't return my calls or letters. I got a live body once and told them I was going to dispute the charges if they didn't stop trying to defraud me. They immediately transfered me to a guy that IMHO does nothing other than threaten to sue PayPal users if they threaten to dispute CC charges. I mean that's all he didn't. He knew nothing about the circumstances. He was just there to read me the riot act (from a script) about what they'd do if I disputed the charge. I told him just exactly what he could do with his business and called my CC company. The CC company credited me my $$ within a week and I never heard any more about it. Paypal, contrary to what many of the horror stories said, didn't freeze my account. It wouldn't surprise me if they did but they didn't to me at least. Always Always ALWAYS use a CC when paying via PayPal. In fact I don't have a valid checking account registered with them anymore. I closed that account nearly 8 months ago when I moved. They already verified the account and I'm not going to try and tell them otherwise. :)
eBay is financially rigged to favor the
auctioneer instead of the customer. As a
fee based system, they derive the bulk of
their income from these same auctioneers.
By joining eBay, the bidders relinquish
any right to sue, and the cap on any
arbitrated settlement is $200. PayPal
might be convenient, but they have next
to zero for security and auditing. A
close friend had their checking account
cleaned out by someone either at PayPal
or one of the auctioneers. I stopped
doing ANY business with eBay after getting
ripped off a few times in rapid succession.
Going on eBay is like walking in the barrio
streets of Rio De Janero with you wallet
hanging half-way out of your pocket. The
old adage "Buyer Beware" doesn't even
come close to the risks. Anyone that
would consider buying an automobile, let
alone a house, on eBay must be daft.
I don't know if I would make such a blanket statement about the insecurity of eBay and PayPal.
The people that have been scammed, for the most part, are people that were expecting to get something for (next to) nothing.
A little common sense goes a long way on eBay. Unfortunately, most people have none, especially when a deal "looks too good to be true".
It's really the same kind of gullibility that keeps spammers in business. For some reason, people think that if it's "on the Internet", it's automatically legitimate. When, in fact, the exact opposite is true much of the time.
I'm still suprised that eBay lets this go on. Having things like this around where the whole purpose is to separate a sucker from his money implacts the reputation of the whole site.
There's a difference between stretching the truth and making statements that serve no purpose other than to mislead and confuse the consumers. Everyone knows that the burger they see on TV is going to be nicer than the one made by some stoned highschool kid working for minimum wage, but it's going to be essentially the same thing. If a 'real business' consistantly practiced the type of deception that these eBay guys are, they'd never be able to stay in business once word got out. Why is it different online?
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
One reason why people are able to place a $2.5 million bid to try to kill off an auction they think is fraudulent is that it doesn't cost anything to place a over-high bid on eBay.
Maybe eBay should set some threshholds at which point bids require a deposit in escrow in order to justify a large bid, money that is returned if the bid doesn't win, but is lost if the transaction doesn't close because its withdrawn while being the high bidder.
Recently bought a router, the seller shipped a hard drive to me by mistake. After emailing back and forth I sent the hd back, but no router. Seller stops responding to emails. So what happens when I fill out the Paypal form to try and get a refund?
They have an item asking if you received ANYTHING in the mail. So I checked that off. Bad mistake! They classified the report as "misrepresented item"!!!! Then a few days later closed the complaint saying they didn't do anything in those cases!
Paypal = SCAM CITY
Lesson: accept Paypal payments for expensive items and mail a jellybean to the buyer. Paypal will support you all the way.
I must admit that I also was the one to suffer from that. After a great deal on an expensive digital camera (Sony F717 :)) that went flawlessly I got too relaxed.
They got me with a road bike for 100 EUR + 50 for shipping and I bought it. It's been a month without the bike and any reply to the emails.
This article motivated me to go to the authorities to try to get the money back. This fraud was stupid enough to give me his bank acount and a postal address. Let's see what the police san do about it!
I've put faith in those online auctions and have not been scammed in over 150 plus auctions. Mostly sales, a few purchases. If you are careful with who you buy from and walk away from deals too good to be true you should be fine. As for readily exploitable mechanisms like Paypal its a fricking bank account. If you lose your check book, your credit card number or even your SS number you can get exploited. Its not like it is all that much easier through paypal. Email scams have been asking for bank account numbers and what not in addition to paypal passwords. Run and hide in a cave and have no contact with the outside world and then your "financial assets" will be safe.
You mean that Paris Hilton action figure is a fraud!. People auctioning off their life, and those imginary girlfriends are frauds! I for one am shocked. And awed too
MoFscker
No, they are still in the wrong because they are listing the auction under electronic systems, and they are giving it the title "Brand new PS2 never opened!" and when you read it it lists the features of a PS2 and has pictures of one, but if you read the fine print you see they are ACTUALLY selling a link to a website.
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
These are the latest variant on a pyramid scheme. Basically, people are paying today for a wait list for a product that will be delivered whenever the waiting list gets long enough to have enough money to buy your item. Early people on the list will in fact get their items, but as the list gets longer, the wait gets exponentially longer until the world runs out of fools to supply and the list stops growing. The people caught "below the line" when the scheme colapses end up paying to wait in a line that has stopped moving... they'll never get their stuff.
By the way, this was just a joke, no need to make an entry of me in the CIA's secret files.
I liked ebay when it was just people selling second hand items, businesses selling surplus etc. Ever since the ebay business model sprung to life ebay imho sucks. Sure they let something like a cell phone faceplate go for $2.00 that you would pay $15 for in the mall. ut then they hit you with a $8 to $10 s/h fee, and you get it in an envlope with 0.95 postage marked on it. They are just using the shipping and handling fee to insure their profit. And good luck if something is broken or incorrect when it comes back with these mega sellers of cheap crap, they glady will take the negative feedback point as it will be lost in the thousands of others were they didnt screw up. And the scams are unblievable. Instructions to build your own projection tv, wholesaler list. errr
eBay could very easily design a "Click here if this looks bogus" button for registered users, and then place the auctions that are reported in a queue for moderator review, with additional trust given to those who have successfully reported violations in the past, and less value given to those who false report.
I've used ebay and paypal to buy and sell a lot of things, and never had any problems whatsoever. Then one day my brother decided to buy a computer on ebay (which I do regularly). He found a good system for a good price, looked entirely legit, plenty of positive feedbacks for the same or similar computers, my friend built a similar system for himself for around that same price. So it looked legit, but my bro is now out $1060 with no computer and the guy has disappeared, and the weirdest part is, the guy contacted my brother 2 months later, after fraud charges had long been filed with paypal, ebay, and the IFCC, and told him that he was embarrassed by this and promised to ship the computer the next day, which of course he did not. But WHY would he do that? He didn't ask for more money or try to sell anything else, he just promised to ship it after we'd already done everything we could think of to get him.
On that note, don't ever buy anything from StudentCompSolutions.com, Jeff Bellisimo, or jeffyjimmy@*.*
And if anyone lives near 5150 Argus Dr. in LA, and would like to pay Jeff a visit for me I'd be much obliged.
Frag 'em all...
I've been buying and selling low-value items on eBay for some time with nothing but good results. It's fun.
The other day, I remembered an LP I found fascinating when I was a kid, called "Hearing is Believing." RCA put it out--I believe they gave it away for free--in the early fifties. It was an introduction to hi-fi. I suddenly "I'd get a kick out of hearing that again." I went on to eBay, there was a copy up for bid at a starting bid of $3.00, nobody else bid, I got it for $3.00 plus $3.50 shipping, and experienced a intense burst of pleasurable nostalgia at hearing it again.
Nobody can make a fortune scamming people $3 at a time, so most of the low-value weird junk items are legit. And if they aren't--so you're out a few dollars, who cares?
I won't say there are easy answers, but by far the largest number of horror stories seem to all be about one specific category: people that believe they can get new or practically new electronic gadgets for substantially below the new price. Indeed, no doubt you sometimes can, but that is the kind of item where the risk is high.
Of course, trading junk doesn't appeal to everyone, but I think it is one of eBay's highest and best uses.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Often times, these people who are auctioning "information" on how to acquire products for cheap are just banking on how lazy and stupid buyers are. Recently I was looking into buying the Zelda Collector's Disc for gamecube, since I purchased my cube too late to get it for free. Doing a quick google search for it, I found that I could get the disc as a free gift if I purhcased a one year subscription to Nintendo Power Magazine. It wasn't a bad deal, but I decided to see if E-Bay could do any better. Looking at the different auctions, I eventually came to one auction that had a price of $3.00 (where other auctions were going for more than $30. Looking at the auction, I saw that the guy was simply selling information on how to buy the game for $20 with no shipping and handling. It was insane to believe that he was getting money from people just to tell them to order Nintendo Power.
....his Phantom console from them....;oPPP
1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
A while ago some people were auctioning off CD's with all the cartoons from Homestar Runner on eBay. Some fans got pissed at the people selling the CD's and overbid them to millions of dollars. I've seen it happen to people trying to sell CD's of Penny Arcade strips as well.
Vigilanties usually don't fix a problem. They almost always make things worse. If one person is saying an auction is real and another says they are fake then who should you believe? The answer is no one, go other to Yahoo! Auctions or somewhere else.
E-bay will have to restructure and get rid of these fake auctions or die.
So which will it be e-Bay?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
What about bootleg anime on eBay or half.com? They're often easy to spot, but I don't know what to do about them. Is there an effective way to report them?
Some of the schemes invlove selling of ebooks other are driven entirely like a pyramid with people entering at a low cost, below $50, and then relying on the "members" (fraud victims) marketing the scheme to get their goods.
Examples of schemes like this:
Electronicmatrix.com or Ezdeal4u.com
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
I've been on eBay for I think 5 years now (feedback rating of 530+), buying memorabilia for a particular marque of British auto. Like another poster I buy pretty small things and out of nearly 1000 transactions I've had only a couple items in my "Stiffed" file - 1 from a seller who (apparently) died, 3 or 4 lost in the mail, and a 2 from a seller that was woefully disorganized for their volume. I've paid by PayPal, US$ cheque and cash, and only 1 payment went astray and it was a cheque that I cancelled. I have sent money to various spots around the world that would make people a bit leery, but anything like this is a gamble. I deal in a niche, not in the mainstream consumer products market, so that's probably why my experience is so good. Nobody's wanting to get rich off the stuff I buy. People chasing "deals" on the same stuff everyone else is chasing will always be targets for the unscrupulous.
fraud is never okay, but people think they can get things on the cheap on ebay. you get what you pay for. i see lots of 17" powerbooks for like $999. i'm thinking, yeah right. but i read where some guys got hosed on these "deals". people are stupid for thinking they can find deals on ebay that are too good to be true. my wife buys and sells kids clothes. but she bought her canon 10D at a brick and mortar store, though she could've got it for a lot less on ebay. so why? well, you pay for service. and it is safer. you pay for that too. i have no sympathy for people who drop big dollars to people they have no way of verifying, especially if it's in some BFE country. they should use sense. though ebay has a responsibility, they can't possibly track the millions (and millions) of auctions. it is incumbent on the bidder. there are great deals on refurb'd laptops. but i'd only buy them from legit ebay stores. i wouldn't buy it from a regular user.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I think it's a forgone conclusion that when you go on eBay you have to leave your bullshit detector on high.
It's not a Wal-Mart and nobody that does a lot of business on there treats it as such.
How many shops accept paypal (if you don't have the debit card) - how many shops are in rural Montana - do shops have ebay points - there are reasons to pay MORE than retail.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Example :I was wandering around a local church yard sale and stumbled across a book filled with pictures of dead people. So I bought it and put it up on EBay.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Netbank.com doesn't allow paypal to transfer money FROM your checking account, but will allow paypal to transfer money into the checking account.
And it is free. As Dan's Data would say, Recommended.
Fellowship 9/11
Your mattress must be getting pretty uncomfortable by now.
eBay's feedback system is pretty effective. A combintation of eBay feedback and how the seller represents the goods can really help you determine how legit the seller is.
Also, it is reasonable to send the seller and email, or call the seller. You can even have someone visit the seller if necessary.
As both a buyer and a seller, I've had very few problems. I bought one item that didn't work as advertised, but it was only $9. Not a bad loss.
I've sold some stuff to a bunch of people that didn't pay. All said, illegit bidders cost me over $85. That pisses me off, but it's part of business on eBay.
I always make sure that there's a lot of quality feedback when buying. If there are some negative feedbacks, I read them and try to figure out who the loser is. Often times, the loser is a first-time (and last-time) eBay buyer.
A seller with little-to-no feedback is a huge warning sign. I can't imagine someone selling on eBay without first buying several items on eBay. It's OK to buy from a person with little feedback, as long as then item is very little money. I won't panic if I lose a few bucks (like less than $10).
I watch to see where the product is coming from. Something that's in the USA is much safer in my eyes. It's rare that someone will be selling a Plasma TV on eBay from some east Asian country. I simply stay away from that kind of unwieldy, unlikely-to-be-true stuff.
Paypal is easier for me as a buyer and seller. However, PayPal's fee (for the seller) is quite high. I usually sell with some kind of proof-of-delivery. I understand that Paypal doesn't offer me any real protection - so I always think safety first.
I've used their auction alert system for about 2 years and it really works, it's an easy system to tell yahoo that something is wrong with an auction. It allows "you and me" to police auctions - ebay should have something similar.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Full details on the event are in my advogato diary.
Basically the scam was that this seller puts a laptop model for sale on eBay, dozens of times. Dozens of people bid on the item and he picks the 'n' number of highest bidders to "win" the auction. At no time does he own these laptop models he is selling. He requires that all payment be sent to him within 5 days of the auction close.
After 4-6 weeks of delays, people start sending emails, getting pissed, and mad. "Brian Silverman" emails them back, with excuses about delays at the "warehouse" and other excuses.
Meanwhile, 2-2.5 months later, he purchases the laptop model, at quite a discounted price from the vendor (not being the "newest" model on the market anymore).
So he keeps hundreds of thousands of dollars in auction buyers' money in his account, accruing interest, and then he purchases the laptops, at roughly 30-40% less than his original auction price.
But wait, it gets better... Brian decided that the whole "send the item to the buyer" part of the scam was eating into his profits too much, so he decided to just not send any laptops to anyone.
I was the last person he ever sent a laptop to. I actually tracked him down, and called him at home one night to demand my laptop, or the FBI would be at his door in 30 minutes. He claimed he would send it out that night, and double the RAM "for my troubles". A week later, I did indeed receive the laptop.
But I posted all of the details in my Advogato diary entries. Hundreds of other people who were being scammed by Brian Silverman googled for his "electro_depot" name, and my diary entry was the only one to come up. They would email me directly asking for more details.
I then received a call from the NY Cyber Crime division, asking me if I had any details on the "scam" with Brian Silverman, and if anyone else had contacted me, because they had a "few calls".
I said I had 141 separate people who had emailed me to complain. 141 people!!!
The end result, was that Mr. Silverman was tracked down out of the country, and the FTC caught and nailed him. I even received a nice little letter from the FTC praising me for my efforts in catching him.
My diary entry was THE reason people were brought together, and the FTC and NYPD took notice in the matter.
Vigilante justice does definately work, but you have to be very careful about how you go about it. After people found my diary entry, they created all of those other websites to track and report on Mr. Silverman's scams.
(And that T23 that I "won" is currently at IBM repair, for the 6th time in 2 years, so it wasn't exactly a "win" in my case).
EBay, based in San Jose, Calif., has 800 people deployed around the world to fight fraud, he said, and does not need amateur help. "Just like in the offline world," he said, "you can't have people running around taking the law into their hands."
So...what does he think the government is? Robots?
1. Email Ms. Houkom about having a fake item
2. Outbid her by $.50
3. Repeat 1-2 until winning bid is yours
4. Have a victory espresso from your brand new espresso machine
I sell Diablo 2 items on ebay. It's good money for very little work. Unfortunately, there's been a recent outbreak of fraud by users who buy items using stolen ebay accounts and pay with stolen paypal accounts. The items are virtual, so they recieve them almost instantly -- when the user reports their account stolen a few weeks later, the sellers have the payments retracted and get stuck with the bill.
These aren't just little kids trying to get items for free. There's a definate pattern here. People, who I imagine don't even play Diablo 2, have taken towards buying D2 items with stolen paypal accounts and on some legitimate account (which actually belongs to them) they resell the items. Thus they end up with money in their paypal accounts which is very cleverly laundered from stolen paypal accounts in a manner which is almost untracable. So all those people phising for paypal accounts have found a way to keep the money without having any sort of records connecting their money with the account they stole.
The only weakness of this plan is that, of course, is that the accoutn which does the actual reselling of the stolen items must be a real account. I have taken a couple hours of my time to track down the legitimate account of a person who ripped me off for roughly 150 dollars, and tried to bring this person to eBay's attention, but they don't care. After all, he's a seller generating seller fees for them -- they're not gonna do anything unless I somehow give them ironclad proof.
You would think would an overwhealming level of circumstancial evidence (he started selling the just a few hours after the first items were purchased using a stolen account, he sells the same items in the same quantities as were stolen by the two accounts I know to have been stolen by the same person, he even recieved his first seller feedback from one of the stolen accounts for his cheapest item) would be enough to convince ebay to even consider some sort of investigation. But they won't even respond to my emails anymore (and I'm a powerseller, supposed to be entitled to "priority support").
Let's face it, ebay is complicit in the fraud committed by these individuals. They do not act strongly to stop them. They do not actively monitor for fraud (if I can search completed listings and tell you who's a fraudulent buyer and who's not, then certainly ebay could).
So then it's not really suprising that ebay users would take to doing ebay's job for them -- someone has to do it. There's no real alternative to ebay at this point (yahoo auctions is a sad, sad shell of ebay) and people depend on ebay to make a living.
Heck, the thought of buying something from the legitimate account of the person who stole 150 dollars from me just so I could request the phone number from ebay and do a reverse look-up had crossed my mind. But even if I did get his home address, what would I do with it then? Show up on his doorstep with a baseball bat?
I'm at a loss for ideas. Now with all my auctions I'm forced to screen my buyers very carefully. Calling long distance to verify that the people using the ebay account are in fact the real users, checking bidding histories for suspicious patterns.
I want to treat my customers like customers, not like criminals. But I see no real alternative as long as eBay continues to drop the ball on halting fraud.
it's a pyramid scheme. They call it "a matrix"
Matrixwatch has a lot of info on how these scams work and are involved in bringing a lawsuit against one of the biggest operators.
They have instructions on how to report those annoying "free link!" auctions to ebay and how to get paypal to close the accounts of people who start new matrix sites.
There are a lot of people out there who are bad at maths and are unable to grasp that if they are the twentheth person to sign up for a plasma TV 50x matrix then they don't get their TV until 1000 people have join that list which will take years even if the matrix operator is not sued, shutdown by his card process and dosn't dissapear with the money or just not pay out when it's your turn.
If you are signing up for place 20 to get a TV the chances are that people 1-19 are non existant or shills.
Ebay is slow to remove "free link!" auctions but they are certainly monitoring for people offering to sell goods outside of ebay.
I doubt it a conincidence that transactions outside ebay reduce their income whereas matrix scams just annoy users.
I reccently bid for a computer. I got half a dozen email message sent via ebay saying "I have ten of those really cheap, email me!" followed by half a dozen warnings from "eBay Singapore customer support" (I'm nowhere near singapore) which began "We recently investigated the possibility that 'newoffretez@yahoo.com's account was compromised and used by an unauthorized third party. Our records indicate that you may have been contacted by this third party about purchasing an item off of the eBay site."
Sorry, I was was hurrying, that link should have been www.matrixwatch.org
That's another great eBay tip - Don't fall for any transactions that include a significant sum of money.
... well, on the verge of bankrupcy. Or have a drug problem and "fall off the wagon". Or who are sick and die. Who knows! All this is more likely than Circuit City going out of business. (Of course, that could happen too)
Determine how much a significant sum of money is. Don't spend more than that on any one eBay transaction unless you have a way to reduce the transaction's risk.
Anyone can get ripped off anywhere. A legit seller can "turn bad". eBay sellers are usually not professionals with storefronts... they are individuals who may be
Most good sellers stay good. But remember that whenever you buy something, you take a risk. When you buy from an individual, it's a bigger risk. That's one reason why you can get great deals on eBay... lower price, higher risk. If you do your homework, you can minimize that risk.
I put in a bogus name and password and it passed me right on to the next page where they ask for all your info, including a credit card. I plugged in more bogus info and it responds with yet enother page that looks exactly like eBay's that says congrats you've updated your info. I wonder how many people fall for this?
I also wonder if it would be technically illegal to use curl to submit a few thousand million POST requests with bogus info to that scam page?
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
"How hard is it to include them in the article summary? This smacks of total unprofessionalism."
So Slashdot should be more professional by disrespecting NYTimes wishes? It's their story, not Slashdot's.
"Derp de derp."
I was looking around for an Apple notebook, Ebay/Yahoo/Amazon etc, was looking at the $2999 17" Apple notebook at Amazon and noticed the "X new & used from $1720" I was like "hmm $1720 that's a pretty good price" and I checked it out, the guy who was selling it said his grandmother got him one for Xmas as a going to college present but he'd already gotten one through a school program, etc etc, so it seemed legitimate enough to this point. So I asked how did he want payment, and he wanted to use an "escrow server because it's safer for us both" (uh huh....) well he gave me the URL for the escrow and I whois'd it, the domain was less than a week old (???) Verisign logos, etc yet the certificate was an instant-ssl free certificte (???x2).
Definite scam, emailed Amazon and the hosting provider, site was pulled, Amazon never replied, I forgot all about it, about a month later I get ANOTHER email from this guy, different Amazon account, same URL, new host... the cycle continues...
Apparently Amazon did nuke his account, and his web host pulled the fake escrow site, DNS update, new Amazon account, and he's back up and running.
Kinda makes you want to go to Chuck E Cheese and play whack-a-mole, for all the good you do tracking these bastards down they just pop up out of another hole.
--- www.f-theocean.com
Recently, I was looking for a new stove for my kitchen remodel. Over the course of 2 weeks, I found 2 DCS 36" ranges. Typically around $5000. Both sellers had several hundred positive feedback. But their previous items were nothing like the stoves, little trinkets and crap. So I figured the accounts were hijacked.
I emailed the sellers, and both of them offered to end the auction early and sell me the item for $3k, and include free shipping. This thing weighs 700 pounds, and one of them said UPS would ship it and hold it until they get the Western Union money transfer. I looked at the headers in the emails, and every one of them came from somewhere different. A portscan of the originating machine revealed that it was an open proxy, and they were using this to use yahoo mail and hotmail.
Needless to say, I didn't send them any money. One of them wanted to use a specific escrow service. I looked at the domain info, and it had been registered only 4 days before. And they only took western union. Shady as hell.
This is why I propose someone start a site called thugs4hire.com. If you get ripped off, you can send someone over from a network of thugs to beat the living crap out of the scammer.
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I have successfully purchased (and sold) many items on eBay. You can get awesome deals on some items, so long as you know what you are doing:
- Check feedback. Not just the number, but the comments. Read the negative and neutral comments and judge whether it was the seller's fault ("you never shipped") or the buyer's fault ("my notebook didn't have an OS" when the auction said so) or neither ("broken item, seller replaced, OK").
- Sanity check prices. A brand new Sony notebook on buy-it-now for $49 is a fraud. A used Dell CSx with a PIII 500, 20GB HDD, DVD/CD-RW, Windows 2000, good battery, and 256MB Memory for $350 is a stupid seller.
- Remember, prices on auctions often start low and go high. SET A HARD LIMIT. DO NOT BID MORE. It is easy to get into a bidding war and end up paying way more than you wanted.
- DO NOT PAY WITH A WIRE TRANSFER. PAY ONLY USING PAYPAL AND ONLY WITH A CREDIT CARD.
- Ask bogus questions. If you are buying a notebook, ask if it has the "hyperspeed math co-processor". If you get a "yes" answer, it's a fraud.
- Know what you are buying. If you have a question, ASK before you bid.
- Compare with similar auctions. Check completed auctions. If something seems off, ask about it.
- Know how much shipping is.
- Make sure you aren't buying pirated software. If it includes Windows, make sure there is a COA (unless you plan on loading Linux).
Ebay, Paypal, spam...all of it can be traced to the one inherwent flaw of the internet that, ironically, people continue to outspokenly defend: the anonymity of the net.
You cannot have a well-behaved global village without personal accountability for it's citizens.
Ebay don't seem to care about reported fake auctions. They do jump pretty qucik on reported copyright/trademark infringements (including sometime screwing up and stopping legit auctions), but they don't seem to care about hoaxes. You'd think they would at least spend some time on that, and on working with the legal people to follow back frauds to the original source.
I'm not suggesting anyone attempt this but I am curious if such a thing is possible.
You = Not educated in online purchasing. You need to excersize due diligence in protection yourself. If you recieve the wrong item:
ALWAYS PAY WITH CREDIT CARD. Credit cards offer you the protection of canceling a fradulant charge within 30 days. A misshipped item that they refuse to exchange counts. Contact the seller and demand a refund. If they don't ssue one, stop payment on your card. Contact the seller and let them know you are happy to ship it back to them, at their expense.
Also, if you get ripped off, SUE THEM! Our courts are here for a REASON. Unless you are buying something quite expensive, you should be able to sue in small claims court. The monetary limit is like $2000-$3000 in most jurisdictions. It's usually $20 to file a suit, and you don't need a lawyer. Try to get their personal information from eBay and Paypal. If they can't or won't give it to you, file the suit and subpoena it. They'll give it to the court (they have no choice).
While I agree that PayPal and eBay need to work harder on stopping fraud, you have a good deal of responsibility too. If you get ripped off, online or not, crying about it doesn't get you anywhere. You take action to get your money back. I've been ripped off by Pep Boys. A letter to my bank, an independent expert inspection of my vehicle, and some documentation, and I got my money back.
Don't roll over, just keep upping the stakes till you get what's yours. First try talking to the seller, if they dont' respond try PayPal, if they screw you stop the charges on your card, if that becomes a problem take it to small claims court.
I needed a textbook, Introduction to Electrodynamics, a book that costs $100. My entire family was making big noises about the high costs of textbooks and my roomate offered to buy it online for me. She's not the most technically literate but she has a credit card which gets her more ebay acess than me. She told me about half.com (an affiliate of ebay) and I gave her $50 and borrowed textbooks in the meantime.
At some point, she said that she suspected an ex-friend of hers had sent her a CD-R that she was suspecting of less than honest intentions and she was afraid it would cover her computer with computer viruses. I popped it in my linux box, poked around... and was surprised to find that it contained the solutions manual to my textbook!
I went back and looked at what she had bought. It was listed as "Introduction to Electrodynamics (Hardcover, 1998)" but under the notes it said "Notes: Solutions manual in CD format. Returns not accepted due to possibility of copying."
We've emailed half.com but haven't found any response. We've left bad feedback but that doesn't seem to do anything. All our requests for returning are unheeded.
I understand that he probably thinks (s)he's providing a valuable service offering bootleg copies of the solutions manual, but I found the damn offer misleading, and I don't even want the solutions manual! I want the book! And when no one responds to inquiries... Grr..
--Stanza, who has been burned internet shopping everytime I've ever tried to buy anything online.
Do lottery tickets count?
"He who throws mud, loses ground." - proverb
I'm not surprised e-bay lets this go on. They are probably satisfied with their cut.
UNIX is truth, the Console is life. Use Evolution to send e-mail and not virii.